NAFPS Forum

General => Research Needed => Topic started by: used2bnaf on June 20, 2012, 04:31:59 pm

Title: Grace Sanctuary
Post by: used2bnaf on June 20, 2012, 04:31:59 pm
This is the webstie for the Lone Star Sun Dance.  They have been having a dance here for more than a decade.  There are several links to chat groups, suggested reading, their annual poster (has names of chiefs) and directions to their ceremonial land.

This years poster shows a caucasian child praying with a cannupa at the base of a cottonwood tree.  There is a known association with Leonard Crowdog, Marvin Swallow, Quincy Yazzie, Melvin _____?  All are natives.  However Mary Thunder is involved here too.  The dance has about 100 dancers.


www.gracesanctuary.com


Check it out.
Title: Re: Grace Sanctuary
Post by: used2bnaf on April 26, 2013, 06:20:07 am
Interesting update.
A couple of weeks ago, I got the third degree about this post.  The person bugging me is the main medical person at the Lone Star Sundance.  It got pretty nasty on her end of the messaging.  She accused me of posting the child's name on this website, that is in the 2012 LSSD poster.  I assured her I did not and would not. (Though the child's name is on the poster and several others already on the internet.)  I went to the site today to see if there was an updated poster for this year.  Last year's has been removed. 

The child in the photograph is over 18 and in college now.  I don't know the reasons as to why.  Guilty conscience or self protection... There are other posters on the site.  Each lists the "chiefs" and sponsors.

I don't know if each individual on the posters need a thread or not.  Some individuals already do.  I am open to suggestions.



used2bnaf
Title: Re: Grace Sanctuary
Post by: used2bnaf on June 05, 2013, 09:25:17 pm
This year's LSSD poster for 2013.
Title: Re: Grace Sanctuary
Post by: Epiphany on June 05, 2013, 09:58:36 pm
Looks like they don't have the 2012 poster on their own site now http://www.gracesanctuary.com/Posters.html  (http://www.gracesanctuary.com/Posters.html) , but it can be found online, someone has it on their Pinterest site, meaning anyone else could grab it.

I don't understand their choice to have a child on that poster.
Title: Re: Grace Sanctuary
Post by: used2bnaf on June 05, 2013, 11:35:46 pm
Yea, they took it down.  The girl in the photo is now an adult and going to an Ivy League school.  Her parents (both non NDN) are prominent Ceremony Leaders for this community.  I do believe that they took it down due to me pointing it out publicly to people here.


I know they all mean well....
They aren't helping anybody really.  My assumption is that most involved here have not been moved to the Fraud section because they keep a low profile and ask for donations only.  Well, except for Phillip Scott.  Truly their internet prescence is very low key.  It is mainly by word of mouth that one encounters them except through the grace sanctuary website, which is really just a place for the LSSD dates.  Nobody does anything with it.
Title: Re: Grace Sanctuary
Post by: debbieredbear on June 05, 2013, 11:37:09 pm
The poster with the child is on this year's poster. And it looks like they are trying to make this look like an ndn sundance instead of a twinkie dance.
Title: Re: Grace Sanctuary
Post by: used2bnaf on June 05, 2013, 11:46:29 pm
this is the 16th year of their Sun Dance.  The poster is a circle of all previous posters (including the one spoken of) encirlcing Leonard Crow Dog and Joanne. That pic was taken at the very first Sun Dance held there.

There was some discussion of what to do after this years dance.  The decision is to continue...though honestly I watched this Dance get smaller year by year.  Eventually it may be absorbed by one of the other Sun Dances in Texas or Oklahoma.



Used2bNAF
Title: Re: Grace Sanctuary
Post by: used2bnaf on May 30, 2014, 07:03:40 am
Hi all.  This is this years poster for Lone Star Sundance.  I post here every year.  I pray every year, that people will see how cultural appropriation is wrong, and how it harms people...including themselves.


www.gracesanctuary.com


Thanks for being here.


used2bnaf
Title: Re: Grace Sanctuary
Post by: earthw7 on June 07, 2014, 02:11:18 pm
i just don't understand why they do this ???
Title: Re: Grace Sanctuary
Post by: used2bnaf on June 08, 2014, 03:01:15 am
earthw7-

I am sure your question is rhetorical.  And I certainly cannot provide certain answers for every situation.  When I encountered ceremony (of this type), I was very sad, lonely, and spiritually starved.  The group filled many needs I had. ( Or so I thought.)  I think many of these people have very good intentions. ( I am speaking specifically of this group.)  However, good intentions pave the way to hell sometimes.  I am very grateful that I am out and no longer participate.  I actively hope that others will realize the same things and leave too, but I cannot make them.  I can pray though.


Used2bNaf
Title: Re: Grace Sanctuary
Post by: Otter3 on June 10, 2014, 05:57:14 am
i just don't understand why they do this ???

earthw7, from my experience, I would say that the frauds who prey on spiritually starved Non-Natives use a combination of "Noble Savage" teachings and take advantage of Non-Natives' guilt about how white people did terrible things to the Native Americans, and how the world would be a better place if Non Natives followed Native American traditions.  In addition, in the Judeo-Christian traditions, from which many Non-Natives come, joining another faith is permitted.  For example, if a Christian wanted to marry a Jew, and was interested in following that religion, he/she could study with a rabbi and then be converted to Judaism.  So it seems okay to Non-Natives to change their beliefs to those of Native Americans and to take part in a Sun Dance.   It's ignorance, and as Used2bnaf says, many of these people have good intentions.  But it's sad. 
Title: Re: Grace Sanctuary
Post by: earthw7 on June 10, 2014, 12:03:53 pm
let alone making a poster an advertising the event only non natives would do that,
they must sell everything including themselves, they see no wrong in it and somewhere
in their minds they believe they have the right, not one of them come to indian country and
help not one is stand up for us, they stand for themselves shame on them
Title: Re: Grace Sanctuary
Post by: Sturmboe on June 10, 2014, 02:46:34 pm
Why do people often think they can copy or adopt way of livings they never raised in, they never could come clother to its language which develops by living this life, a life they had never lived.
It is ok to learn from different nations, different believes, try to understand and respect cultures.
But they should be carefully and be aware that there are always some missing gaps they can never fill up with knowledge and experiences where they had never grounded their feed in. Is it like dancing on a fameless ground, one day they will lost where to step, struggle and fall down - and maybe, maybe they asks themsselves, what happened that they had to fall, what to change to stand up again and where to go?
How often is naming the "nobele savage" a non-noble misuse to take a flight - away from listening to those authentic people and the wish not to face the consequences for unethically and false doing.
Title: Re: Grace Sanctuary
Post by: Cetan on June 17, 2014, 02:30:00 am
Unortunately I have seen posters for the Sundance at Crow Dog's, now that I think about it I have one somewhere that Leonard gave me when I ran into him in Mission years ago a few weeks before his dance
Title: Re: Grace Sanctuary
Post by: Cetan on June 17, 2014, 01:30:20 pm
I cant believe it but I just saw a poster for Roy Stone's Sundance
Title: Re: Grace Sanctuary
Post by: earthw7 on June 17, 2014, 03:04:35 pm
see what i mean there never should advertisement of a sundance but were you see
advertisements you will see non native with money. Its  shame that this is happening?
i always ask people what is story? Why do we do certain things what is the story most dont
know


Title: Re: Grace Sanctuary
Post by: earthw7 on June 17, 2014, 03:21:23 pm
We are entering ceremony time and i understand that people are looking for something but
I believe that they have the answers inside them when they look to others to fix their problems
they only create more problems. We have closed ceremony with no non native allowed and we are\very strict
Just like these things called moon camps we dont have those at sun dance only at dance were their is non natives
we laugh at them but but then we see the abuse of the culture and they dont know what they do. Sometime a little
knowledge is dangous
Title: Re: Grace Sanctuary
Post by: used2bnaf on July 01, 2014, 08:16:00 pm
Earth-

This dance in particular has an "air" of acceptability due to certain Natives sanctioning it and being there.  The "intercessor" of this Sun Dance participated for years up North.  He was given a bundle by a prominent Native American.  Uneducated people see that and think that it makes it OK.  I don't blame them.  I believed the same for a time.  It was a major challenge to realize just how wrong it is. 

I wish I could help people understand these things.  I can't though.  The allure of an "alternative" spirituality in response to the insanity of the world today is powerful.  Add to that the size of the group, how decentralized it is, and its links to "authentic" Natives.....  the only thing that really deters people is the sizable commitment level and cost of time and money.  It does nothing to address the underlying racist issues.



Used2b-
Title: Re: Grace Sanctuary
Post by: earthw7 on July 01, 2014, 11:13:00 pm
I know it like the Chipps who did this for years and because of that we have all these fakes dances everywhere
or the ones that Crow Dog helped with what a headache they leave us with.
What people dont understand if one person say its ok but the rest of the nation says No then its NO!
They also dont understand one person does not have the right to give away our ceremonies without our elders
consent and it must be all the elders not one or two
Title: Re: Grace Sanctuary
Post by: Defend the Sacred on July 03, 2014, 10:45:40 pm

What people don't understand is if one person says it's ok but the rest of the nation says No then its NO!
They also don't understand one person does not have the right to give away our ceremonies without our elders' consent and it must be all the elders not one or two.


I think we need to keep telling people this, over and over, because so many non-Natives either don't know this, or they want to pretend they don't know this. They will use any Native as their excuse, even if that Native never had any ceremonies, even it that "Native" isn't even a Native. It's racist tokenism that ignores cultural protocols and realities.
Title: Re: Grace Sanctuary
Post by: earthw7 on July 04, 2014, 11:40:02 am
thank you Kathryn it is hard for non natives to understand because their system is different
they have kings and queens, president and first lady who make the decisions but in my
country we are all equal which mean no one has that right unless it is a decision made by
all so one man can't make a person a chief, a medicine man, a sun dance leader, ect...
hat is why there is so disputed in indian country. For those who claim to be adopted
don't have the right to use our ways unless it was a decision of the people. That has
never happened/
Title: Re: Grace Sanctuary
Post by: earthw7 on July 04, 2014, 11:43:12 am
i was looking at their site again this group is like a little cult
Title: Re: Grace Sanctuary
Post by: Sturmboe on July 04, 2014, 07:58:19 pm
Lacks of knowledge? Some may do not know what they are doing, they think they do right.

But: There are people with different personality disorder. Some got a lack of comprehending they are ill, some are akting with cheap propaganda. They are searching for those who marvel them and got a high influence to those.
And they get angry when you tell them not to practice ceremonies, you try to explain why - but you donĀ“t reach them, they cannot listen. They got too often no volition to look at themselves what they are doing and how they come across to other people.

One way would be to explain what is going wrong with those ill people, maybe other will be warned and maybe they keep distance.
Title: Re: Grace Sanctuary
Post by: used2bnaf on July 07, 2014, 04:20:46 am
Benjamin Godfrey Chipps Sr. died this morning.



Roy
Title: Re: Grace Sanctuary
Post by: earthw7 on July 07, 2014, 12:30:20 pm
yes i was sent a notice last night,
Title: Re: Grace Sanctuary
Post by: used2bnaf on June 01, 2015, 05:23:53 pm
It is that time of year again. I still pray most everyday that they will see how their actions harm indigenous people, especially the Sioux - whose ceremonies they bastardize.

www.gracesanctuary.com


Roy
Title: Re: Grace Sanctuary
Post by: Used2bnaf on May 17, 2021, 02:41:02 am
This seems as good a place as any. I appreciate the work of this website.
However,  In looking squarely at my behavior from 2012 to 2015(6), I am filled with regret for my actions by posting this thread and others on this website.  I think that is why after a period of time I deleted my Account.  I cannot take back the words made indelible here. I can only apologize,  say I was wrong, I said these things from a deep place of woundedness, my intent was not to shine a light but to cause pain, and if my words caused anyone reading this harm, I am not difficult to locate. There are some I will contact directly to make arrangements to make f2f amends.

Roy
Used2bnaf a judgemental wounded idiot.