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Mayans Say World WONT End in 2012
critter - a white non-ndn person:
Yes, that is what I mean. You said it better. Some of us don't see time as really existing.. I think it was Einstein who stated that time existed only so that everything doesn't happen all at once. :D
I like the "idea" of a change for this world though, but I suppose most people do. The difference is that I don't believe anyone knows When, or even and most importantly IF.
One has to live with where they are in now, not in some idealized notion that imaginations have taken flight with.
Defend the Sacred:
--- Quote from: critter on January 09, 2010, 08:40:34 am ---I think it was Einstein who stated that time existed only so that everything doesn't happen all at once. :D
--- End quote ---
Or so people don't go crazy. :o
--- Quote ---I like the "idea" of a change for this world though, but I suppose most people do.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, most people can tell the world is pretty screwed up these days. I think the challenge is for people to apply that desire for change in a good way; to do the hard work in a grounded, realistic way rather than looking to frauds and sham gurus for a quick fix.
And I think even those in mainstream culture who weren't raised Christian have been affected by Christian ideas of apocalypse. Whether it be meteors or angels of revelation or the loosed wolves of Fenris... it's far more dramatic and sexy than things just continuing and it being up to us to do something about it.
flyingdust:
--- Quote ---And I think even those in mainstream culture who weren't raised Christian have been affected by Christian ideas of apocalypse. Whether it be meteors or angels of revelation or the loosed wolves of Fenris... it's far more dramatic and sexy than things just continuing and it being up to us to do something about it.
--- End quote ---
Good point. I often thought of that same thing. Mainstream Native Americans (me included) have been so pervasively influenced by Western thought and tradition. We even speak about our Native American culture and worldview in their language - English - and not in, say, Cree or Mayan. It's no wonder we really don't know what and how the Mayans think or thought about life. We can only speculate. Time is a Western concept, but the Mayans probably had and still do have a concept of time that's totally different from the way we understand it. So every prophesy about 2012 cooked up in movies, on the Internet, and by self-help gurus are fraudulent and arrogant misinterpretations of the Mayan Calendar and of the Mayan people and their culture.
Still, we have the right to wonder and explore the mysteries of the Mayan calendar system, and this can only seriously be done through proper and respectful research. The first step would be to learn the Mayan language and ask the Mayans themselves. The second step may be to go to the research done by Western academia. After all, to seriously learn about any culture in the world, say, French or German, you have to first learn the languages of those cultures. Why should this be any different for the Native American cultures? Try handing in an essay written in English into a German university, for example. You’ll be laughed at first, and then summarily kicked out. I think if we're really going to do something about this 2012 question, then we should start from this resarch approach. 8)
critter - a white non-ndn person:
I don't believe in permanence. I agree with the belief that everything is impermanent. But, change doesn't equate to mass annihilation either. Or a complete throw over of everything.
I have no clue what that Mayan calendar represents, as it is foreign and from a foreign culture that I have no understanding of.
Why some people need to believe in their own demise, I don't know. Perhaps it's psychological on a mass scale. If a singular person is told from birth they are not worthy, they tend to become self destructive, or have self destructive tendencies. Why wouldn't this be the same in a mass belief system where people are taught they are not worthy? It's one thing to feel humbled with the knowledge or understanding of something like the Creator, or Spirit, or God, and quite another to feel unworthy and groveling for acceptance.
I think it's good to have mystery in our lives. I like the idea that the calendar brings a mystery into life. But I'm not one who feels a need to go and resolve it, and/or attach annihilation beliefs to it. I prefer to let it be what it is to me, a mystery. It could be anything and nothing.. or something..
Well, I'm just sort of rambling around here. I do believe that some change will come in life, but I don't attach it to the calendar.. maybe it will coincide, maybe not.. to me, it doesn't matter if it does or doesn't. What matters to me is just that at some point, life changes. Whether it will be drastic with Earth changing face a bit here and there, or the falling of some nations and economies.. therefore changing the 'power structure' of the world.. or disease that revamps the populations. Or, even, a new technology.. change doesn't have to be a negative. But, nothing remains the same, things change.
What gets me is these people acting like it's the end of the world. Do they really think that if some very drastic and huge change occurred, that people would just roll over and die? We are not stupid. I'm fairly certain that if something drastic happened, we'd have the electricity running again pretty quickly.. :)
Of course, there is also the other side of this.. that belief is what will create it. If a billion people believe California is going to fall off into the ocean, then why wouldn't it with a billion people 'intending' it to take place? It's the statement of "careful what you wish for.. "
flyingdust:
What’s going to happen here is the nuagers are really going to run with this Mayan cultural symbol and exploit it to the max, cranking it up evermore as 2012 approaches. They'll be really raking in the dough and laughing all the way to the bank. Their geometric domed sweats and pipe ceremonies are going to be bursting at the seams with people seeking salvation.
Let them make their money with our traditional symbols and sacred structure. It will never get them any closer to Spirit and essence of our culture, but only further away. They seem to be only fixated with the physical forms of our spiritual traditions, without Power and Spirit.
Even back in the seventies nuagers roamed the continent imitating our ways, fooling around with Native American ceremonies and concepts they knew nothing about. An old and knowledgeable Anishnabe friend of mine (who is no longer with us) used to refer to them as wannabes, show boaters, overnight wonders, and culture vultures.
We have our share of nuagers in Canada, many claiming to be pipe carriers, sweat holders, healers, and clan mothers. And they're all jumping on this 2012 prophecy band wagon. But what's going on in the states with these people, I'm finding from reading the posts in this forum, is appalling and amazing and sad. :(
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