Author Topic: Sam Beeler  (Read 75165 times)

Offline tree hugger

  • Posts: 25
Re: Sam Beeler
« Reply #75 on: July 23, 2009, 11:48:48 pm »
Hi Tree Hugger

Thanks for letting us know Shkaakwus can't use the PM function .

-----edited to add

if Wolfhawaii or someone else wants to go over to the Woodlands forum with these questions ,that would be very helpful, but
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Can Shkaakwus read whats posted over here? If he can , why does anyone else has to take the questions and post them over on Woodlands? If Shkaakwus wants to answer them, he can read the questions here,  copy them and post them in woodlands , and answer them however he wants over there. Then someone could copy whatever facts he provides ( probably minus personal comments ) and post that over here . A link can be provided to the original. That way Shkaakwus can say whatever he feels he needs to ,and if people want more than what whoever copies it considers to be the  straight facts, they can go there and see whatever he said in it's entirety.

Tree Hugger
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After the posting the other night, I'm finding it hard to believe any research posted.

What post "the other night"  are you referring to ?   It's not clear what you are saying here or who's facts or research you are saying you now have a hard time believing. I'm guessing you are wondering about some of the information someone in particular presented as factual.

I agree it's always good to try to verify the central facts,  when people use these facts to support an important conclusion .


Hi Moma  ;D

This will be the last post involving woodland on this thread (I hope).

1. Yes he can read. I might add, why would he want to play tag with posts when he can't reply. You could all take the conversation somewhere else besides Woodland. I can see his point in not wanting to do this.

2. It's totally unethical to have a discussion on another forum, bring the posts here and edit the reply to fit this format. I'm sure that Al would agree with this too. If someone wants to repost your questions there, and let him answer, fine. I wouldn't appreciate them being posted here with edits. As I'm sure you wouldn't like any of your posts manipulated.

3. You know the post that I'm talking about. It's the facebook link. There is no way that you did not realize that it was not the Sam Beeler in question. Unless you had never looked at any documentation, including the ones you've used in your research.

4. Just to make it clear, I am not promoting the forum. If that's where Ray feels comfortable posting, that's fine. If you all want to continue to question his past posts here on NAFPS, I can't see how you're going to get clarification. In fact it looks a little strange questioning past posts when you all know he is not capable of answering. I would like to see these issues resolved as well, but I'm not sure what else to offer.

Offline Moma_porcupine

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Re: Sam Beeler
« Reply #76 on: July 24, 2009, 02:56:52 am »
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3. You know the post that I'm talking about. It's the facebook link. There is no way that you did not realize that it was not the Sam Beeler in question. Unless you had never looked at any documentation, including the ones you've used in your research.

Um ....well actually I really didn't know the post you were talking about. That seemed to me to be a pretty minor error. It's not like i wrongly attributed any quotes i found in that link to Sam Beeler . All i did was post the wrong link. I thought maybe you were reffering to something more serious that had come up on Woodlands.

Tree Hugger, i generally try really hard not to make any mistakes because if I do I know that will be used to discredit stuff I post that is accurate. Why would i want to set myself up for that ? If that was obviously the wrong Sam Beeler , what could I possibly gain by posting a link to the wrong person except to make myself look stupid ?

To further explain how i made this error ... and that there was no malicious intentions involved ... A while back I was researching something else and came across a facebook link to a Sam Beeler in ( I think ) in North Jersey . It sounded like the same Sam Beeler. I clicked on it and saw someone called Medicine Crow and listed as this Sam Beelers friend. I then did a search on the term "facebook" and "Medicine Crow" and "Sam Beeler" and on this persons page I found a Sam Beeler listed as Medicine Crows friend .

I think this is the link ...

http://www.facebook.com/people/Medicine-Crow/659131126

I'm not sure if the page looks the same as it did when i visited it before , however , I saved screen shots of that page and did a search on a couple of the other names listed as Medicine Crows friends. One was located in Australia so I concluded this was probably the same person. When I clicked another link on this facebook page i got told I wasn't registered so I wasn't able to see much more than what I am explaining here. I went back to my previous google search and copied the link to what I thought was Sam Beelers face book page in my notes, and that is the link I posted here.

Apparently I made a mistake and i copied the wrong link. I'm sorry I did this and i appreciate you pointing out my error.

From this , and the fact the Sand Hill Indian website is registered in Sam Beelers name , and the fact there is associated with this an email, I concluded that Beeler probably does have access to the internet and can probably speak for himself. 
posted in Reply #55
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http://www.networksolutions.com/whois-search/sandhillindians.org

Quote
Registrant Email:beeler[AT]cherokeenation.zzn.com
Admin ID:tuCkc8L9GjU7nssB
Admin Name:Sam Beeler
Admin Organization:NJ Sand Hill Band

Based on this , i felt I had enough evidence to say it seemed he could speak for himself. Quite simply I didn't feel I needed to do more to try and investigate a face book page it seemed i needed to be registered to view, in order to come to this conclusion. 

You're right and i shouldn't have assumed it was the right link without revisting it and I apologize for being negligent. I guess I should also explain i am not sure how much information people get about who visits their facebook page and I felt hesitant to revist the page just before i posted a link to it. I don't know much about the workings of cyberspace, but I do know some website collect quite a bit of information on who visits them and when.

I do make mistakes sometimes, especially if i am busy with other stuff . I appreciate it when people point them out , and if I have made any other mistakes here or elsewhere I hope you or someone else will also point that out to me. We all have blind spots sometimes and I appreciate the correction.

Quote
In fact it looks a little strange questioning past posts when you all know he is not capable of answering.

Oh I'm sure he could figure out a way to answer if he really wanted to.   Sorry but i don't see Shkaakwus as a victim in this. I'm a bit surprised you do. But i guess we all see things differently and thats OK. 

« Last Edit: July 24, 2009, 03:13:07 am by Moma_porcupine »

Offline wolfhawaii

  • Posts: 293
Re: Sam Beeler
« Reply #77 on: July 24, 2009, 03:53:07 am »
I haven't checked recently, but the cherokeenation.zzn address for Sam Beeler was defunct 2 to 3 years ago. The historical facts alleged by Beeler and presented here by Shkaakwus stand on their own and can be checked whether or not Ray is here to discuss them.

Offline wolfhawaii

  • Posts: 293
Re: Sam Beeler
« Reply #78 on: October 05, 2009, 01:33:07 am »
I spoke with Dr. Richard Allen of the Cherokee Nation in person when i was in Oklahoma a couple of weeks ago; he stated that Beeler had been investigated "several years ago" and that they had found no merit in his claims. While searching the Net today, I found this genealogy that appears to be Mr. Beeler's line: http://www.descendantsofdicey.com/
The family tree tracing back from Samuel Wilhoite Beeler Jr. shows his father as Samuel Wilhoite Beeler Sr. and mother "Nina", no further information on her. On the paternal side the ancestry traces back numerous generations to  a former slave named Dicey. It appears that Samuel W. Beeler Sr. was married 3 times, but I found no information showing Romena Ali or the Holloway line in the tree.

Offline Diana

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Re: Sam Beeler
« Reply #79 on: January 17, 2010, 10:10:54 pm »
Edited; I know this is an old post, but came across an interesting news tidbit about Holloway on another blog.
Sam Beeler's name is mentioned.

http://www.jstandard.com/content/item/at_home_in_two_tribes/11572  


At home in two tribes
Native American Jew reflects on his roots  


People scratch their heads most of the time,” Ronald Yonaguska Holloway said, describing the typical first reaction to him.

He stands at 6 feet 5 inches, and with his broad build is a bear of a man, but behind his imposing physical stature are a soft-spoken voice and effervescent personality that put people at ease. As chairman of the Sand Hill Band of the Lenape-Cherokee tribe, Holloway is leading its struggle to reclaim what he said are its historic land, water, and hunting rights in New Jersey. (He lives in Milford, Pa.) That struggle led him last February to file a lawsuit against this state, alleging illegal seizure of lands, breach of treaties, and attempted genocide.

What he wants most when the fight is over, he told The Jewish Standard late last month, is “to see a place our tribe can call home.”

Holloway is obviously proud of his Native American heritage. The Sand Hill are the oldest indigenous tribe in New Jersey, he said. Among its history of warriors and leaders, though, Holloway may be unique — he is also a member of another tribe known for its longevity, the tribe of Israel.

As closely tied as he is to his Native American tribe’s leadership and heritage, Holloway’s convictions have been shaped by his family and dual heritage, which may seem at first glance at odds, given the polytheistic nature of Native American beliefs and Judaism’s steadfast monotheism. But Holloway has spent a lifetime meshing them to become the man he is today.

A nice Indian boy and a nice Jewish girl…

Holloway was born in 1963, a year after his mother, Dolores Havel, wed his father, Carroll Holloway. The family moved from Philadelphia to California when Holloway was 5 or 6 years old and his parents divorced when he was 7.

Holloway and his newborn brother Jeff went to live with their mother in Burbank. Havel did her best to give the older boy, in particular, a Jewish education, but struggled because of her own strained ties with her religion.

“The late ’50s and early ’60s were not a time for strong cultural ties,” he said. “It was a looser time, and that came back to haunt her when she was trying to pass tradition on to me. As with any culture, without a strong core it’s amazing how quickly tradition and language can fall by the wayside.”

When he was growing up, Holloway recalled, his mother would allow him to bring home only Jewish friends. His family did not belong to a synagogue, but Havel would encourage her son to visit other families, who would then bring him along to shul and holiday meals.

“She made sure I was taken care of by placing me with people she knew would tend to what I needed to round me out,” he said. “My understanding of Judaism always came from my friends and their parents. The first thing is you get fed,” he added with a chuckle.

At 13, Ron Holloway “pecked and hemmed and hawed, grunted, tried to cough a couple of times” through a makeshift bar mitzvah in his mother’s apartment. Guests mostly included his mother’s coworkers. His bar mitzvah preparations consisted of lessons from his mother after dinner before she turned to do laundry and other chores. Despite her own loose affiliation, Havel made sure that her son had a handle on his heritage.

“She would always whisper in my ear, ‘You’re a chosen one,’” Holloway recalled.

In junior high, Holloway began going to “powwows and did standard Indian stuff” with his father, “looking at rocks and weapons, and talking about streams and rivers and all those things that are important to him.”

Holloway developed a deep sense of spirituality, which he continues to draw on today. His father was generally supportive of Holloway learning about and growing in his Jewish heritage.

 
“In order to grow, a proper human had to understand where they were and where they came from,” Holloway said. “I can’t think of one time he ever belittled either [culture].”

Last year, Holloway earned a doctorate in theology, which he said gives him an understanding of other religions that is sorely needed.

“If you want to understand people you have to understand what they believe,” he said.

Under U.S. law, Native Americans were forbidden from practicing their religion until the establishment of the American Indian Religious Freedom Act of 1978. Holloway noted the irony that his people were forbidden to practice their religion in a country founded on the cornerstone of religious freedom.

“I find the two cultures have really suffered similar atrocities from being considered second-class citizens, being belittled and not wanted,” he said.

Being a ‘chosen one’

“Being of Hebrew and Indian descent, it’s a little easier than some would suspect,” Holloway said. “They’re both very tribal. A lot of the Native American holidays or important days parallel the Hebrew lunar calendar. From that aspect it was a fairly simple blend. It was more unique that you get your Hebrew descent from your mom and in the United States you get your Indian descent from your dad, so nobody could quite stake a claim.”

After graduating from high school at age 17, Holloway enlisted in the Marines. After training in Japan, he was shipped to the demilitarized zone in South Korea, where he ended up serving as the Hebrew lay leader on his base. With the help of a rabbi in Japan and his own limited experience, Holloway cobbled together a 15-minute service for other Jewish soldiers.

Holloway enjoyed the hospitality of the Jewish communities of Japan and Korea, which he described as “nice and tight-knit.”

The Marines, he said, are one of the most diverse units of the American military, and he rarely encountered trouble because of either of his heritages.
“In squad bay they’re calling you chief, but after maneuvers you pull out the yarmulke,” he said. “The Catholic chaplains were always weirded out by that, too.”

Holloway returned to California after his service and became a police officer. In 1986 he married a non-practicing Jewish woman. Holloway and his now-ex-wife would often laugh about their mothers. In 1990, their son R.J. was born. Like his father, R.J. can claim a dual heritage.

“He finds himself in the same situation I find myself in: Jewish mom with Indian dad — except his dad is Jewish, also,” Holloway said.

R.J. is looking at both cultures now, Holloway said, and is interested in learning more about his Jewishness. Because of his own admittedly weak Jewish education, Holloway said he has not been particularly dutiful in educating his son.

“But I make sure he’s constantly aware of it,” he said. “I try to inculcate all the important lessons.”

Holloway said he’s raised his son to be spiritual but not religious. His hope is that one day he will succeed his father as chief of the Sand Hill and R.J. will succeed him as chairman. Whether R.J. will find a Jewish bride, like his father and grandfather, is not something Holloway is campaigning for.

“I do not believe in enforcing who he should or should not marry,” he said. “As long as he finds somebody he loves and who’ll make him happy I’ll support that.”

“But,” he adds with a hearty laugh, “if he can find a Jewish Indian girl, I’m set.”

The battle continues…

On Nov. 27, Holloway represented the Sand Hill in Manhattan at a ceremony organized by the Dutch Collegiate Church. The ceremony marked the church’s official apology to the Lenape for centuries of mistreatment. Holloway, who delivered the keynote address, called the event “a great first start in healing.”

“You get a chance to see the human race has a good chance to move forward when those old wounds are healed,” he said later.

The Lenape, along with other tribes between New Jersey and Rhode Island, are what is known as a first-contact tribe. They were the first to deal with British and Dutch settlers, and as such, signed treaties with those governments. Those treaties were transferred from Britain to the newly formed United States. According to Holloway, those treaties guarantee the Sand Hill Band certain land, water, and hunting rights in New Jersey, which the state has not honored.

At the request of the Sand Hills’ then-Chief Sam Beeler, Holloway began getting more active with the tribe’s affairs in 2005, becoming its executive director, as it struggled to reclaim these rights.

“We’re looking to coexist but have ourselves acknowledged as being part of the state,” Holloway said of his tribe’s lawsuit.

In 2008, the tribe switched over from a traditional government to a constitutional government and redefined the role of chief. His father became chief and Holloway was elected chairman, the tribe’s supreme secular authority according to its constitution.

As a result of that change, the chief assumed control of tribal matters of a more traditional nature. Chief and chairman work together but operate independently.

The N.J. Indian Commission declined to comment on the case when reached earlier this week.

Holloway is seemingly as driven in his current role by his mother’s Jewish heritage as he is by his father’s Lenape roots.

“I feel that if I can offset or rectify one wrong, then I will have kept both sides of ancestors happy,” he said. “I’m proud of both heritages. I wear them both equally. I find both peoples to be equally strong.”

Native Americans have long suffered in the United States, where they weren’t even acknowledged as citizens until 1924. For thousands of years the Jewish people have suffered pogroms, expulsions, inquisitions, and other violent and horrific acts of anti-Semitism. Suffering is not the only commonality between the two cultures, but it can create a powerful bond.

“I use my dual heritage really as a lesson,” he said. “Both peoples — we’re both keenly aware of what our Hebrew brothers and sisters went through during the Second World War and suffered over the centuries. The American Indian is not too dissimilar.”

During the Holocaust, Jews in Europe were forced to sew yellow stars on their clothes to identify themselves. Native Americans must carry what Holloway called an Indian card, to identify themselves.

“It’s very belittling to have to carry something to prove who you are,” he said.

Holloway’s parents both taught him the dangers of appeasing those who treat others as second-class citizens.

“That only emboldens those [people] to go on further,” he said. “I’m very conscious of the atrocities that have happened. That is something that both cultures have in unison. That is something that is branded into my conscience by my father and my mother.”
« Last Edit: January 19, 2010, 05:06:36 pm by Diana »

Offline bls926

  • Posts: 655
Re: Sam Beeler
« Reply #80 on: January 19, 2010, 05:11:55 am »
The above article from The Jewish Standard, January 15th, is about Ron Holloway, the Chairman of one faction of the Sand Hill Band. He's Carroll Holloway/Medicine Crow's son. It really isn't about Sam Beeler.

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Sam Beeler/Sandhill Band
« Reply #81 on: June 21, 2010, 01:24:04 pm »
This seemed the bes thread for it, since questions about Beeler's legitimacy are tied up with the Sandhill Band's. Note there are earlier posts with statements from the Delaware and Dr Richard Allen of the CNO. Plus the thread on a group claiming to be Keetowah in NY.

Seems the band wants Manhattan...seriously. I don't think it was Lenape land. Manhattan once belonged to a diifferent people, the Wappinger. The Lenape are related, but not the same.

--------------
http://www.dnainfo.com/20100618/manhattan/this-land-is-our-land-indian-tribe-files-suit-for-ownership-of-manhattan
MANHATTAN — In the latest twist in a two-year battle, the New Jersey Sand Hill Band of Lenape and Cherokee Indians filed a suit in a New Jersey court claiming it owns Manhattan, as well as the Hudson New Jersey, Delaware and Eastern Pennsylvania.

While the lawsuit may seem unrealistic, tribe spokesperson Laura Zucker said they are confident in their case.

“Oh no, they’re going to win, there’s no question about it,” she said. “They do have a really good case, and they know it. They’re in it to win it.”

The suit claims that the tribe’s land was stolen from them through a series of fraudulent treaties that violated international treaty laws. They are seeking the “return [of] all land, water, trees, etc. encompassing the fraudulent 'Manhattan' purchase, damages, and punitive damages,” according to court documents.

This isn’t the tribe’s first attempt at getting ownership of the Big Apple. They originally filed suit in April 2009, suing officials in New Jersey, including the governor, secretary of state and attorney general with violation of human rights, genocide and breaking of treaties.

That suit was dismissed in 2009.

Chief Ronald Holloway also appeared in front of the United Nations earlier this year asking for help in reclaiming damages from the state. According to Zucker, the United Nations is still reviewing the case.


Offline Whitephoenix

  • Posts: 3
Re: Sam Beeler
« Reply #82 on: July 30, 2018, 08:01:14 pm »
Cita in chattanooga was used in a reference, frankly ivd seen its white members and their casper the ghost tom kunesch they are fraids themelves and its sick to seem them given any validity.