Author Topic: Chuck Spezzano & Psychology Of Vision  (Read 419794 times)

Epiphany

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Re: research needed on Chuck Spezzano's " Psychology Of Vision healing model"
« Reply #120 on: November 08, 2013, 08:16:28 pm »
Chuck Spezzano says he achieved enlightenment at Oneness University in 2007. He and Lency teach Oneness practices to their own followers. Their trainers also advertise themselves as Oneness Blessing Givers.

Followers are encouraged to visit Oneness University.

Here are some quotes from someone who visited Oneness University in 2011. She was recruited by a Unity church teacher.

Quote
After arriving in India and traveling out of Chennai my concerns began when we drove up to the Oneness University “campus” and realized that it was a locked down facility with guards at the gate and high walls with barbed wire.  It is out in the middle of nowhere, so there wasn’t much of an alternative other than to go into the campus. To me it felt like I had ended up in a minimum security prison with a few people I knew, but we were to be in silence, so I couldn’t talk to them. There were bars on our dormitory windows and guards at the entrance to each dormitory, the dining hall, and the “class room” where we had our daily yoga instruction/indoctrination.

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The circumstances surrounding the activities of the program were so disorienting that it took a few days for me to put it all together and realize that far from a healing retreat, I had ended up half way around the world, and at great expense, in the middle of a cult.  It was like being in an insane asylum.  During the yogas and time spent at the temple, many of the 200 plus people in the program lost total control of themselves and cried out loud, screamed, hit themselves, laughed hysterically, and rolled around on the floor.  Some appeared to be having psychotic breaks.  This was encouraged by the Oneness staff, and no aid was given to these people.  In addition to the chaos surrounding me, I was also dealing with the tactics of the cult designed to break you down and surrender yourself to them.

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Even after we had made it through the interview/indoctrination process (during which the Oneness US rep told us that the program was like a combination of est and getting hit in the head by a 2×4) required by Oneness for us to leave and we were able to get into the cars we had hired to take us back to Chennai, I didn’t actually know if they were going to let us out until the guards stepped away and the gates opened and the cars drove out.

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After getting home I felt traumatized and fell into a very deep depression.  I felt surrounded by emptiness.  I was sleeping about 20 hours a day, which lasted for about two weeks.  Gradually I was able to be up for a few hours more at a time. I had one chant in particular from the yoga sessions that kept repeating in my head, and I had to sing songs to myself to stop the sound of the chant. This problem with the chanting went on for about two weeks.  I had a great deal of trouble relating to anything in my life, including family and friends.  I found that the only people I could comfortably talk to were the others who went on the trip with me.  We were all very traumatized, and got together occasionally to talk about how we were feeling and to see how everyone was doing.  I talked to a therapist, and she said I had PTSD.

http://dougbottorff.com/category/oneness-blessing-scam/

Epiphany

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Re: research needed on Chuck Spezzano's " Psychology Of Vision healing model"
« Reply #121 on: November 09, 2013, 02:27:30 am »
Some quotes from Couple questions alternative healing groups’ activities on Haida Gwaii , more available at link http://aptn.ca/pages/news/2013/11/09/couple-questions-alternative-healing-groups-activities-haida-gwaii/

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The other group being discussed in Haida Gwaii is Psychology of Vision. Despite its name, the two founders Lency and Chuck Spezzano are not psychologists.

In fact, Charles Spezzano was fined in 2004 for acting like a psychologist while not being licensed by the state of Hawaii.

Chuck Spezzano told APTN Investigates that because he works internationally he doesn’t need to be licensed. He said he is not a psychologist and calls himself “a coach.”

But he says the work he does is indeed psychology.

Dutheil says the POV sessions were a horrible experience for her.



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APTN Investigates asked Charles Spezzano to explain one of the many type of healing methods POV uses. It’s called an “original mind download.”

“It’s a blessing. And if you’ve ever received a blessing where you can feel it, that’s what a download is meant to be,” he replied.

How does that help a person looking for healing, we asked.

“Basically it provides some wholeness. Where there was a split mind or conflict or something like that, it brings peace,” he said.

We asked him how one becomes qualified to do a download.

“Well, first of all, you experience it and then you learn how to pass it on,” Spezzano replied.

The Spezzano’s are shocked that they are being accused of being a cult and that the work they are doing is dangerous. Chuck Spezzano claims more than 40 years’ experience. Lency Spezzano claims they are a great help to First Nations. She says that wherever POV goes, there is a cultural renaissance in the community.

They help people, insists Charles.

What they do not do is disempower people in order to take their money, he added.

Epiphany

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Re: research needed on Chuck Spezzano's " Psychology Of Vision healing model"
« Reply #122 on: November 09, 2013, 04:21:24 am »
APTN Investigates video is now available online http://aptn.ca/pages/news/category/investigates/

Epiphany

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Re: research needed on Chuck Spezzano's " Psychology Of Vision healing model"
« Reply #123 on: November 11, 2013, 03:53:29 pm »
There is a report in this thread of an adult who felt suicidal during a POV event. In the APTN Investigates episode about POV, there is a report of youth feeling suicidal after a POV event, in fact the Spezzanos are not welcome back in that area.

If you are involved in POV and have suicidal feelings, please take this seriously, and please get help from a source other than POV. There is lots of good help available that will assist in your recovery.

Epiphany

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Re: research needed on Chuck Spezzano's " Psychology Of Vision healing model"
« Reply #124 on: November 22, 2013, 05:30:51 pm »
Two top Psychology of Vision trainers are now targeting  Upper Nicola Band in Canada. Band members are given this two day event for "free", but these events actually come at great cost, they are recruiting events.

In order to keep their training status with Psychology of Vision, trainers have to stay busy, they have to fulfill annual requirements, such as holding these trainings.

The usual buzz words are here, designed to attract people thinking they will be learning actual leadership skills.

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 Authentic Leadership in Douglas Lake With Melissa Meyer and Doug Anderson

Two Day Psychology of Vision Workshop Nov 23 & 24, 2013 Douglas Lake, Upper Nicola Band

"Authentic Leadership"
With Psychology of Vision Trainers; Melissa Meyer and Doug Anderson

 (Please note Upper Nicola Band Members attendance is no $0.00 charge.)

Authentic Leaders recognize that there has to be a better way" and this is where the surrender or turning one's life over begins. They know that the old way of leadership based on roles, duty and sacrifice no longer work and are inspired to empower everyone around them beyond this. Authentic leaders are prompted to share their gifts and talents and respond to the calls for help. They find the way through situations with ease and grace. As Authentic leaders we understand that leadership is a healing path and a path of modeling and mentoring so others naturally follow us as we continue to move forward. We are committed to our own healing and prefer to find a better way for ourselves, our families, organizations and communities.

Come join Melissa Meyer, Doug Anderson and the Upper Nicola Band Members for an interactive, experiential, transformational weekend, there are sure to be deep healing and some fun times to be experienced this weekend!

Location: N'Kwala School Gymnasium, Douglas Lake Indian Reserve

Event Details: There are 25 seats available for non-Upper Nicola Band members at a cost of $175.00 each, payable (at the door) to the Upper Nicola Indian Band office. Please pre-register with NKwala Manuel at training@uppernicolaband.com or call NKwala at 250-350-3342

Contact Info: NKwala Manuel at training@uppernicolaband.com or call NKwala at 250-350-3342.

Registration: Saturday Nov 23, 2013 9:00 am - 10:00 am

Workshop Times: Saturday and Sunday Nov 23 and 24th from 10am to 5pm. Times are approximate, please note Saturday’s session may go closer to 6 pm.

Offline moreinfo

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Re: research needed on Chuck Spezzano's " Psychology Of Vision healing model"
« Reply #125 on: November 28, 2013, 06:38:20 am »
beware of these tricky words!
 "there has to be a better way and this is where the surrender or turning one's life over begins"
Pov wastes no time taking over who you are ,already making you believe who you are is not good enough, surrendering to pov is giving up your life for their life.
What we possess within ourselves and  with our families is very special and belongs to us not pov, turning one's life over is a huge loss when you let pov convince you that your life is not good enough. Even if we have a tough life , it is still our own life and that is some of what makes us who we are.
 There are ways for support that can allow us to stay in our families to find peace with each other without surrendering who we are. Protect yourself from these spiritual thieves that displace human relationships that are inherent to our families. They make you believe that you are loved and cared for by pov family and rebond with pov members, soon you will be talking their talk and seeking their friendships and praises. Every moment you spend with them, is less time you give to your own family, this includes resources as well. Money that should be given to your own.
Ask yourself, Who do I love more ? My relatives? or POV trainers and pov participants? If your answer is your family , then turn around and walk back to them , leave POV in the dust. Doing this will save you so much time,
time that POV would suck out of you for eternity, and then when you finally one day had enough of POV, you will waste even more time trying to get their "mind manipulations" out of your system, you will grieve for the time wasted with pov and resources it took from you, and the gap between you and your real family.
 The world has alot of challenges , as bad as life can seem for some , suffering in other parts of the world is so unbearable. Children in refugee camps, survivors of war. We can assess our lives and see where we want to invest, if you want your life to improve , directly invest into caring about yourself and your family. Be the one to make that happen.
Don't let  pov scam you into believing that they are going to lead you to the way, cause all your going to hear over and over is " are you willing to surrender?"  Know your worth and perserve it!

Offline debbieredbear

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Re: research needed on Chuck Spezzano's " Psychology Of Vision healing model"
« Reply #126 on: November 28, 2013, 06:02:40 pm »
I am reading the book "Manson" and this creeped me out, moreinfo. Charles Manson used similar tactics and isolation on his followers. Manson was a gifted manipulator when he read Dale Carnegie's book. He still controls some of his followers, and in fact has made new recruits even though he has been in prison for decades.

Epiphany

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Re: research needed on Chuck Spezzano's " Psychology Of Vision healing model"
« Reply #127 on: December 11, 2013, 10:51:42 pm »
In 2002 Chuck and Lency Spezzano did this event with Fidel Moreno:

Fulfilling the Promise, Living the Vision
Dr. Chuck and Lency Spezzano.
Canyon de Chelly, Arizona, USA
October 16, 17 and 18, 2002.

"We are asking for your agency and your branch of the Díne Nation to support the Canyon de Chelly retreat"
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=4179.msg35871#msg35871

In 2004 they did an event at Cloud Eagle Sanctuary at Nambe Pueblo, New Mexico. Fees were to go to Native Vision, Arts and Communications Ltd. attn Fidel Moreno http://web.archive.org/web/20040401202630/http://psychologyofvision.com/event_7thgeneration.htm

 “WE ARE THE 7TH GENERATION . . .

“WE ARE THE ONES WE’VE BEEN WAITING FOR . . .”

A GATHERING OF VISIONARIES, HEALERS AND TEACHERS

THE “SACRED HOOP” OF ALL NATIONS GATHERING

MAY 10th to 16th, 2004
CLOUD EAGLE SANCTUARY at NAMBE PUEBLO
IN THE LAND OF ENCHANTMENT, NEW MEXICO
30 MINUTES FROM SANTA FE

INVITED SPECIAL GUESTS ARE: CHUCK SPEZZANO OF POV
CHRIS GRISCOM OF THE LIGHT INSITUTE, MARGARET BEHEN-QUITNANA, CHEYENNE/ARAPAHO VISIONARY & TEACHER, CECELIA FIRETHUNDER, LAKOTA VISIONARY AND COMMUNTY ORGANIZER
PRECILIANO CARRILLO, HUICHOL SHAMAN AND SINGER,
LARRY LITTLEBIRD, STORYTELLER, HEALER AND SINGER OF Santa Domingo Pueblo
AND GINNY “LA DONA” GENTRY, of the Eagle lineage from Don Miguel OF THE FOUR AGREEMENTS AND THE TOLTEC WAY

OTHER REGIONAL HEALERS, ELDERS, TEACHERS AND VISIONARIES FROM THE NAVAJO NATION, COCHITTI, SANTA CLARA AND TAOS PUEBLOS WILL ALSO BE FACILITATING NON-PLENARY WORKSHOPS.

7 DAYS OF TEACHING AND VISIONING CIRCLES & 7 EVENINGS OF PRAYER AND HEALING CIRCLES – ORAL HISTORIES, PROPHECIES, TEACHINGS, CEREMONIES AND EVENINGS OF SONG, DANCE AND CELEBRATIONS TO HEAL AND EMPOWER BROTHERS AND SISTERS TO MOVE BEYOND THE PERSONAL PAINS AND FEARS AND VISION THE BIRTHRIGHT AND TASK OF CREATING JOY AND BRINGING THE LIGHT OF GRACE AND HOPE TO A WORLD
THAT IS IN TRANSITION AND SPEEDING TOWARDS CHANGE . . . WE ARE THE ONES THAT CAN NAVIGATE THE COURSE . . . WE ON THE PATH . . . WE CAN SET THE COURSE . . .

FAMILIES, CHILDREN AND ELDERS WELCOME . . . TRADITIONAL NORTHEN* AND SOUTHERN STYLE LODGES* WILL BE MADE AVAILABLE TO THE FIRST 100 PARTICIPANTS
SINGLE AND FAMILY TENT AND CAMPING SITES ARE ALSO AVAILBLE – HOTEL & BB LODGING AVAILABLE 20 MINUTES FROM GATHERING.

Hotel/Lodging Reservations by: Cities of Gold Casino Hotel
Tel: 877-455-0515 Fax: 505-455-3060 Email:www.citiesofgold.com


*TRADITIONAL NORTHERN/SOUTHERN STYLE TIPI – SLEEPS 20 PEOPLE
7 DAY AGENDA FOR SPEAKERS, PRESENTERS, FACILITATORS AND PROGRAM

MAY 10-MONDAY- SUNRISE PRAYER, MEDITATION AND MOVEMENT

8:30AM – 7TH GENERATION GATHERING INTRODUCTION- CECELIA FIRETHUNDER – Lakota Visionary, Activist, Educator and Healer and Mother.

9:00 AM – CHUCK SPEZZANO – PLENARY SESSION SPEAKER/PRESENTOR
“WE ARE THE ONES WE’VE BEEN WAITING FOR”

12:00 PM – 2:00PM LUNCHMEAL WITH YOUR CLAN/FAMILY IN TIPI

2:00PM – 4PM – CECELIA FIRETHUNDER – “WE ARE THE 7TH GENERATION”

4:00 – 6PM – CLAN/FAMILY CIRCLES

6:00- 7:30PM – DINNER WITH FAMILY/CLAN IN TIPI

8:00 – 10PM – SOUTHERN DRUM – TRADITIONAL BIG DRUM AND DANCE

10:00-12AM – TIPI CREEPING AND SNAGGING(JUST Kidding!!!!!!!!!!!)
sleep, sleep, sleep, SLEEP, SLEEP, SLEEP AND REST FOR THE 2ND DAY.

MAY 11- TUESDAY – SUNRISE PRAYER, MEDITATION AND MOVEMENT

9:00AM – CHUCK SPEZZANO – POV

2:OOPM – 4PM – PETER SCHLIESSMANN – CEO & PRESIDENT OF TOUREXTREM
“ CEREMONY & RITUAL AS ACTION AND ENERGY”

8:00PM-10PM - ZIMBABAWE DRUMS & DANCING

MAY 12 – WEDNESDAY – SUNRISE PRAYER, MEDITATION AND MOVEMENT

9:00AM – CHUCK SPEZZANO- POV

2:00PM – 3PM – CHRIS GRISCOM – THE LIGHT INSTITUTE
“THE LIGHT OF SPIRIT AND THE GRACE OF VISION”

8:OOPM-10PM – NOSOTROS- LATIN & NUEVO FLAMENCO SONG AND DANCE

MAY 13 – THURSDAY – SUNRISE PRAYER, MEDITATION AND MOVEMENT

9:00AM – CHUCK SPEZZANO – POV

2:00PM – 4PM – PRECILIANO CARRILLO – HUICHOL SHAMAN & HEALER
“ THE POWER OF DREAMS, VISIONS & PRAYER”

8:00PM-10PM – MIRAMBA MUSIC AND DANCE


-2-


MAY 14 – FRIDAY – SUNRISE PRAYER, MEDITATION AND MOVEMENT

9:00AM – CHUCK SPEZZANO - POV

2:00PM-4PM - LARRY LITTLEBIRD – STORYTELLER AND SINGER
“FROM ANCESTOR’S TO THOSE YET UNBORN –THE LEGACY”

8:00 – 10PM – BRIGITTE SCHMITZ AND FRIENDS – OPEN MIC –
PERFORMANCE, CHANTING, SONG AND DANCE


MAY 15 – SATURDAY – SUNRISE PRAYER, MEDITATION, AND MOVEMENT

9:00AM – CHUCK SPEZZANO – POV

2:00 – 4PM – “LA DONA” GINNY GENTRY – THE TOLTEC WAY/FOUR AGREEMENTS
“We ARE the WARRIORS of Love, Grace, Peace and Joy . . . Our MISSION is . . . “

9:00PM – 9:00AM – Native American Church Ceremony*

9:00pm – Purification Lodges – MEN’S AND WOMEN’S & MIXED LODGES

MAY 16 – SUNDAY- FEAST, CELEBRATION & GIVAWAY/GIFTING CEREMONY

10:00AM - SUNDAY WORSHIP & PRAYER AND VISION STATEMENT

7:00 PM – FEAST & CELEBRATION – NATIVE ROOTS – AMERICAN INDIAN RAGGAE

For More Info, Please call 505-474-0135 or 505-455 7284 or Email: pejuta@earthlink.net

FEES: US$1000.00 for Individual
US$1,5000.00 per Couple (2)
US$2,500.00 per Family/Organisation (4

http://web.archive.org/web/20040401202630/http://psychologyofvision.com/event_7thgeneration.htm
« Last Edit: December 11, 2013, 10:54:14 pm by Piff »

Epiphany

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Re: research needed on Chuck Spezzano's " Psychology Of Vision healing model"
« Reply #128 on: December 18, 2013, 08:52:37 pm »
Chuck Spezzano posts a daily "healing card" on his Facebook pages and blog. His followers often thank him, claim that the specific card is very meaningful to them at this moment, devotion and gratitude is expressed. Today's card is:

Quote
PASSING THE SHAMANIC TEST
PASSING THE SHAMANIC TEST is the card for today. A Shamanic Test is an initiation to reach a higher place of power and consciousness. It could easily be a life or death situation. You put it all on the line to reach a higher place. The easiest way to pass a Shamanic Test is to use grace which is always given us. Our requests allows us to receive it. Also to call for Divine Love which brings miracles and Divine Presence. What could go wrong then? Then there is no need for challenge but allows us to simply embrace the higher place as Heaven's Will for us... Using grace is the only way to cheat and have greater integrity. Have a fine day!

This is an example of a standard format he uses. On http://www.chuckandlencyspezzano.com/ he has quite the spectacular claim: "Chuck uses healing cards to channel Heaven's Spirit."

The American Cancer Society has been contacted about Chuck Spezzano and Janie Ticehurst's b.s. claims about the meaning and possible cures for cancer. Their response includes:

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As you may know, researchers have done many studies to see if there is a link between personality, stress, and cancer. No scientific evidence has shown that a person’s personality or outlook can affect their cancer risk.

One of Chuck's influences is Bert Hellinger, who invented a very controversial pseudo-therapy, systemic constellations. Chuck does his own spin on this in seminars.

The method has been called quantum quackery and pseudo-science. Antifascists have taken Hellinger to task for this dubious therapy.

Bert Hellinger was a Roman Catholic friar for a time, Chuck Spezzano studied to become a Catholic priest. I think Chuck has invented his own Nuage religion, drawing upon many other systems and beliefs, and he has set himself up as the top dog.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2014, 07:01:47 pm by Piff »

Epiphany

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Re: research needed on Chuck Spezzano's " Psychology Of Vision healing model"
« Reply #129 on: December 27, 2013, 08:38:06 pm »
Some Spezzano family members and supporters have responded to the growing discussion and critique of Psychology of Vision. Often the response is along the lines of telling us that we are engaged in character assassination, running a smear campaign, are unprofessional, attacking, harassing, and that anyone who has had problems because of POV are unique individuals who already had serious problems. The Spezzanos are described as "clean, transparent, and genuinely focused on doing the highest good for everyone that they can".

I encourage family members and supporters to join in on the conversation, read through the forum first for awhile, introduce themselves, and discuss these concerns about POV.

More than one person has felt suicidal directly because of exposure to POV. POV is a large group awareness training, these trainings are untested, unsafe, controlling, money making operations. POV has been horrible for residential school survivors.

Epiphany

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Re: research needed on Chuck Spezzano's " Psychology Of Vision healing model"
« Reply #130 on: January 04, 2014, 08:54:19 pm »
In order to be an advanced trainer, people have to go to Oneness University in India. They describe themselves as "Psychology of Vision Trainer and Oneness Blessing (Deeksha) Giver."

Some trainers are known for being harsh and confrontational, including Joanne Roberts of Prince Rupert, B.C., Canada. http://www.cornerstoneswellness.com/about-us/ Survivors report that some trainers are heartless, without compassion, and that they leave their victims frightened and confused.

When First Nations communities are infiltrated, and authority members become part of this destructive group, the community suffers. Job opportunities, education, general morale, and contracts can all be influenced.

The Spezzanos have been running the Psychology of Vision money making machine for awhile. I think they have people addicted. Just like in an abusive relationship, they are able to manipulate and keep people hooked. Hopefully their followers will eventually understand that the Spezzanos are not magical, they are not holy, not special. Being made to feel a certain way in a seminar doesn't mean the trainers are gifted, good people. Followers are just being played, strung along like fish on a hook. Large group awareness trainings can produce a rush, because our bodies and minds have a response to being messed with. The trainers are abusive and then seem to offer the cure. Just like abusive relationships.

From the outside, it is easy to see that the Spezzanos use First Nations people to enhance their own reputation and marketing. White people who attend seminars are told that there is the extra bonus of First Nations people there. White people can feel like they are going to get something special and that they are going to help "Psychology of Vision is dedicated to awakening the giftedness of indigenous peoples on the planet.".

I'd like to see copies of any waivers and other paperwork POV has participants sign, feel free to message me if you can pass on copies, or post them here.

Unless POV is brought down by possible illegalities, if they are involved in financial crimes, or if they are sued by former members, I wonder what will stop this money making fraud machine. Fortunately more people are becoming educated, and more are deciding to not fall into the POv trap.



« Last Edit: January 21, 2014, 04:28:45 am by Piff »

Epiphany

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Re: research needed on Chuck Spezzano's " Psychology Of Vision healing model"
« Reply #131 on: January 05, 2014, 10:05:35 pm »
Chuck Spezzano has described Visionary Leaders Canada (Prince Rupert, BC, Canada, run by two POV trainers Betty Lou Hunt and Joanne Roberts, they also run Cornerstone Wellness) as "Just an amazing group of people with a beautiful vision to move First Nations and Business forward! Do check them out!"

Hunt and Roberts in various promo literature for events, brochures, flyers, and online, have used several paragraphs of text from someone attributed as "Oneness by Rasha". Especially when it is the event description it would be easy to assume that this is from a POV member, or at least done by permission.

But it turns out that Rasha is not allied with POV, in fact she critiqued "Oneness University" and deekshas back in 2007. (scroll down to August 2007 http://www.onenesswebsite.com/speak.html ). And she did not give Hunt & Roberts permission to use her work.

Rasha gave us an official statement:

Quote
"The book entitled Oneness, which I transcribed, is not associated in any way with any other teacher, guru, or organization that may also be using the name “Oneness.”  I have, thankfully, never received “deeksha” or a so-called “Oneness Blessing” from anyone affiliated with POV or the group in India calling themselves “Oneness University." I do not wish to have unsuspecting, sincere spiritual seekers confuse the pure teachings of Oneness, who some people consider to be God, with the agenda of that organization." Rasha

Offline Ingeborg

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Re: Chuck Spezzano & Psychology Of Vision
« Reply #132 on: January 09, 2014, 02:48:31 pm »

It seems that one of the persons interviewed for the APTN docu is being harassed on his Facebook site by Mr Spezzano Jr:

https://www.facebook.com/thomas.greene.71653

Quote
Thomas, I am so disappointed that you are continuing to slander my parents. From the intensity of your posts, it seems like you are not open to doing balanced research and are perpetuating and creating your own slanderous libel. This is illegal in both the US and Canada: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation

I can see you care about your community deeply, but it also seems you have let that feeling take you on a personal rampage in a completely inappropriate direction. I personally ask you to desist from making attacks against my parents and Psychology of Vision on your Facebook account or otherwise. Continuing to do so is illegal, along with the rest of the misinformation being peddled about by amateur, self-titled "reporters" and "researchers." I did a thorough review of everything you sent to me. There are some links describing cults, support groups, etc., but none of those platforms have anything to do with my parents or their model. The other links are shamefully bad reporting and research. Almost every attack was completely untrue and the rest were taken out of context. The APTN "Plastic Healers" was especially bad, unbalanced reporting. Their cursory research was ridiculous and they also failed to mention the many other special reports about the positive impacts Psychology of Vision is providing and has provided in First Nations communities that they have done. You may not be aware of the nature of the Internet, but everything you sent was a non-professional site. Much of it was completely unrelated to my parents. You can't take everything you find on the Internet as truth, much of it is not. Unfortunately, it appears you have been having trouble with that discernment. I will attempt to clear up some of your confusion so that you can move on with your life, do some actual good for your community, and stop breaking the law. You wrote this to me: "your parents place their own heads or brains on their "participants" head or place their agenda/dogma in between the "participants" brain and heart so the answers the people find are your parents version and ideas on what is good for them, this is not healing, it is thought reform and mind control. " That is complete and utter nonsense. Where did you read that? Or did someone tell that to you? Clearly you have never been to one of my parents workshops, so I wonder how you could come up with something so slanderous yourself. What you've written, along with the rest of your posts, are simply not true. What is this that you post?: "some cult researchers say that the PoV cult is one of the most evil cult they've ever seen because of what they did to the residentiol school survivors." Again, this is ridiculous. Who are the researchers? Where is this coming from? Thomas, just because anyone on the Internet can post anything about anything, it doesn't mean it's verified fact - just because it's on a website - especially a personal blog - it does not make it truth. My parents have also had a lot of success in helping residential school survivors heal and move on with their lives, which is their goal in providing these seminars free to First Nations participants. My parents don't take ANY money from First Nations participants. First Nations seminars and workshops are donated at no cost, unless the participant is NOT First Nations. For example, if other international students want to take the courses (that are often translated into Mandarin, Cantonese, Japanese, German, Italian, an others - requiring a staff), they have to pay for their courses. This shouldn't be some horrifying shock to you. It's the way business has occurred around the world for millennia. Most schools of thought do charge training fees or tuition to keep their schools running: Harvard University, The Academy of Art, most everyone. What is unique about my parents is that they donate their seminars to First Nations and other groups around the world. It is not to make money. It is to give back. You say their participants never "heal or enjot their lives, they always have to chase the "answer" which they'll never get." Thomas, this is simply not true. My parents' model is designed to give individuals the personal tools to heal themselves and connect to their higher self, or whatever spiritual belief system the participant chooses to adhere to with their own free will. My parents have worked with First Nations, Hindus, Muslims, Christians, Native Americans, Buddhists, Shintoists, Confucianists, and even atheists. Their model is not to enforce their belief system upon anyone, their practice is based upon the simple principle of forgiveness. As you forgive the outside world, you forgive the outside world, you forgive yourself and heal, and as you forgive yourself and heal, you also forgive and heal your perception of the outside world. It's not rocket science - nor is it brainwashing. In fact, it directly opposes cults, brainwashing, mind control, or any of the nastiness that you post. You also say, A Course in Miracles is cult. It is not. Though your definition of cult seems to be anything that is spiritual? Here you can see a number of the most respected individuals in the world: "Since it first went on sale in 1976, over 2 million copies of A Course in Miracles (ACIM) have been sold worldwide and the text has been translated into twenty languages. ACIM is distributed globally, forming the basis of a range of organised groups.[31] The teachings of A Course in Miracles have been supported by commentators and authors such as Robert Schuller,[32] Oprah Winfrey,[33] and Eckhart Tolle.[34] "A Course In Miracles" is also taught in many Unity churches.[35] However, due to ACIM's claims to "clarify" or even supersede[36] some of the teachings of orthodox Christianity, the book has been judged negatively by some Christians." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Course_in_Miracles#Reception

My parents also have NO affiliation whatsoever with Oneness University. They and some of their students attended some of their courses a number of years ago, but were shocked and disgusted to learn about some of their practices. My mom actually spearheaded a campaign to learn and expose the truth about Oneness University. My parents do not support their practices, community, or methods. They have wanted nothing to do with that organization once they had an opportunity to learn more about them. They adamantly steer people away from that organization, their practices, and beliefs. They would NOT want their students to be affiliated with that organization in any capacity. You and your so-called "researchers" need to get your facts straight. If you attempt to destroy someone, as you are attempting to do both my parents and all the tens of thousands of people around the world they have helped, you have to have the mental willpower to do balanced research. Without a balanced, analytical approach to what you are doing, you are manipulating all of the people who are reading your posts. To be honest, it seems you have been just as brainwashed by this misinformation as anyone a part of a real cult. It's worrisome, unhealthy, and downright illegal to pursue these untrue attacks. We are now in the process of cleaning up this misinformation. We will likely have to take legal action against the defamers to clear up the misinformation and slander they are spreading and issue a public apology. If you have any further questions or attacks, I would be happy to educate you further about your ignorance. Hopefully I can then continue to clear up the damage that you have been doing to thousands of people around the world, not just my parents. Again, I request that you desist in your illegal pursuits of public defamation and character assassination of Chuck and Lency Spezzano and also let go of your slanderous, unfounded attack against and character assassination of Chuck and Lency Spezzano and also let go of your slanderous, unfounded attack against Psychology of Vision and its students and trainers. Defamation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org
Christopher Haokalani Spezzano

I have also made copies of our conversations and screenshots of your public defamation posts on Facebook to hold you legally accountable for any further unfounded damage you choose to do.

Spezzano Jr is not only putting emotional stress on Mr Greene ('I am so disappointed'), he's being racist and using the old stereotype of the 'stupid ndn' by telling him he isn't able to do a valid, 'balanced' research.
 
Junior also cannot see (also pretty usual for Nuagers) that there is a huge difference between criticism and libel. So stuff which does not please him or his parents does not qualify as 'libel'. Many a plastic and fake does not like to be criticized and called out for what they do, but this does not happen to be libel or slander.
In the case at hands, it cannot be libel since everything NAFPS got has been taken from PoV sites and thus is information provided by their very selves.

There are numerous more racist undertones:  e.g. just caring about the community, too daft to see the big picture, in one word: a 'stupid ndn'.
So he says he 'personally asks' Mr Greene to 'desist from attacks'. First of all, it isn't attacks, it is posting facts. But perhaps it is not all that easy for him to see his parents exposed for what they are, and he will have been exposed to their rhubarb for all or most of his life. But his personally asking someone to stop criticism does not make continuing opposition illegal, as he choses to insinuate.

Junior's attack on APTN with 'especially bad, unbalanced reporting' and 'ridiculous research' is racist again. Despite their running a renowned and professional TV station, as 'Injuns' they are being defamed as 'amateur „reporters“'. Yes, it must hurt terribly to be outdone in an interview by a […] (please insert racist ephitet) and having to backpeddle to „I'm a mere coach, no psychologist“. These […] are getting sooo uppity, aren't they? They won't even know their place nowadays and shut their ndn faces while white masters or Great White Fathers are giving them a load of BS. Times are getting simply dreadful. [sarcasm off]

And of course there is a lot of dangerous, untrue, ridiculous etc stuff on the internet – that's why Junior's parents' sites are on, e.g., and that's why he is able to post racist BS on facebook.
There is a claim of his parents having been able to help survivors of residential schools. Oh alright, he doesn't continue the sentence, perhaps he meant they „helped them out of their money“, or „out of their healthy mind“ or something like that. Where's the proof, Christopher? Where are the umpteenthousand RS survivors who were helped? Let them step forward for a few expertises by real psychologists, not by PoV-“trainers“ and such. We want reliable, hard-working scientists to evaluate these claims.

Not to forget: if Chuck S. is so convinced he is helping tens of thousands – why doesn't he have his PoV peer-reviewed? I mean, by real scientists, not by a bunch of snake-oil vendors. Let's see what renowned psychologists make of this so-called therapy. If it is so convincingly excellent as the Spezzanos want to make us believe, then the therapy should pass the review with flying colours.

And there is this gem:
It's the way business has occurred around the world for millennia.
Business? I thought they were on about a therapy! Ah so. Thanks for the clarification, Christopher.

So all of Junior's drivel basically amounts to him publically admitting that his parents do not offer a therapy, they are running a for-profit business to finance their life-style.

Oh, and 2 million people did ACIM? Remember the line of „Eat sh!t – 10 billion flies cannot be wrong“.... On the other hand, 2 million out of 200 (only USA) or probably 400 million (including Europe) – that's not all that much to write home about, innit? Although it is enough to finance a comfy life for a handful of persons. But again: it's a claim, no proof offered.

And Ms Lency 'spearheaded a campaign to learn and expose the truth about Oneness University'?
Perhaps this was a covert action – there's nothing on the internet about this... So, where's the proof, Christopher?

Junior also accuses Mr Greene of 'character assassination'. Funny thing about this is that also German Nuagers and plastics come up with this. The German version (okay, so Germans are said to be efficient) also happens to be a bit more impressive, literally translated we call this „assassination of reputation“. However, there is no such crime in any code of law.


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Hi Thomas, how can you list Morty the Dog as a credible source? It's one of the most unprofessional sites I've ever come across, and again it is rife with misinformation. I would not continue to cite that site as a credible resource to go on the offensive. It also seems to be the main source you share. That you think such a site is credible is what is shocking to me, and that's what I'm trying to get across to you. Morty the Dog, PSIRAM, and NAFPS are unprofessional sites that could be anyone. Both the PSIRAM and NAFPS are both exhaustive in content but again lack credibility. Some of the "research" is simply laughable. The thread on PSIRAM is less than five people doing a bunch of guesswork (or even fewer people pretending to be multiple individuals - you have no idea because the site is unproffessaional [sic] and not credible) between points of misinformation. It's horrible, and it will be corrected. PSIRAM is more academic in its approach - but still unprofessional. WikiPedia itself cannot be seen as a source for verified truth in news or the academic or professional communities, so these knockoffs of Wikipedia fall even further from the mark. The reason for that is anyone could type anything as reported fact, even things that are the furthest thing from the truth, and people like you believe it.
Christopher Haokalani Spezzano

What's worse is that you are perpetuating the misinformation on these sites as professional and academic when they are not.
Christopher Haokalani Spezzano

As far as I have read it, what is published by NAFPS, Morty, Grifters and Psiram may be 'worrisome' and 'unhealthy' as far as the Spezzanos are concerned, as it (hopefully) will decrease their income. Why, they may even have to look for a real, honest job in their ripe age for a change. What we publish, however, is not illegal and it isn't untrue.

And of course Christopher cannot refrain from some racist bits and pieces in offering to educate Mr Greene about his ignorance. Is this something like an obsession with the racist stereotype of the 'stupid ndn' we see here? Christopher may want to take a few more PoV seminars – what was it he wrote again:
As you forgive the outside world, you forgive the outside world, you forgive yourself and heal, and as you forgive yourself and heal, you also forgive and heal your perception of the outside world.

Christopher also believes NAFPS, Psiram, Monthy the Dog, and Grifters Hotel are all lacking credibility, they're unprofessional, and even un-academic. Unfortunately, he's getting on slippery terrain here and calling Psiram un-academical in one sentence, then „more academic“ in another, and his mis-spillings of unprofessional give away he's edgy. Let's take this as an indication the Spezzanos are somewhat worried about their pleasant lifestyle and income.

Perhaps we need to enter some of his sentences into our Nuage to plain English dictionary....

Nuage speak: „They're unprofessional and un-academic“ translates to:
„F---, they're hitting the nail right on the head. They got me by the b---! How do I get out of this mess and keep my income on comfy levels?“


Epiphany

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Re: Chuck Spezzano & Psychology Of Vision
« Reply #133 on: January 19, 2014, 07:19:52 pm »
Several people have reported feeling suicidal during and after POV seminars. Based on descriptions of what happens in seminars, my guess is that many, many people have felt suicidal, triggered by the abusive POV practices.

Turns out this is used as a selling point.

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The process of going through self annihilation is shattering. You must face the horrendous self hatred we all have buried inside us, which we glimpse only shallowly when we are most depressed. In this process you must face everything you judge in yourself: every flaw, every mistake, every failure, every mortifying embarrassment, every shame, every imperfection and all of your self disgust. It isn't pretty. You want to kill yourself.

So POV tells people that they have to go through this process, in order to eventually find what POV defines as God.

http://chuckandlencyspezzano.com/LencyFemininePower.htm

Lency claims that we all have "horrendous self hatred" buried inside, but she is wrong. Many of us do not. Any of us who do, can find help perhaps from a healthy faith community, and also find counsel with a licensed, ethical, therapist.

Chuck and Lency Spezzano make b.s. up, convince people they have these b.s. problems that only they the Spezzanos understand, and then take lots of $$$ from their victims in exchange for supposed cures.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2014, 07:25:42 pm by Piff »

Offline Ingeborg

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Re: Chuck Spezzano & Psychology Of Vision
« Reply #134 on: January 20, 2014, 09:55:05 pm »
Apparently, Spezzano Jr so far did not give up harassing Mr Greene:

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Christopher Haokalani Spezzano
Thomas, you didn't answer my questions.

Christopher Haokalani Spezzano
Secondly, you can't pin the expenses of travel and living on Psychology of Vision. They get no benefit from that. That should be clear and logical to you. In fact, one of the main reasons why their are program fees is because it is expensive to throw an event with lodging, food, travel, and sometimes international interpreters. This really shouldn't be some earth-shattering revelation. This is how business is done everywhere in the world. Everywhere. You are pinning all of the associated fees of life, expenses and choices that each person has to make as a grown up in this world, onto Psychology of Vision.

Christopher Haokalani Spezzano
It would be as if I claimed that Columbia University was a cult and teaching me mind control because I went to school there and I had to pay associated of actually living in New York City, while also paying for my tuition and student life fees (that I would pay at any university). Do you see how crazy that sounds?

Christopher Haokalani Spezzano
Again, I am asking you to stop this rampage against Psychology of Vision and my parents. The information you are spreading is not true.

Christopher Haokalani Spezzano
My parents and some of their students attended Oneness University for a little while, but they soon realized that it was not for them. They have no affiliation whatsoever with Oneness University. They do not endorse them in any way.

Christopher Haokalani Spezzano
Again, the links you sent are not professional. Professional research is done with a scientific, annalytical approach. It is done by peers. Amateur researchers don't often know the first things about doing credible research. Thomas, these sites are creating false materials and spinning the truth to get Internet clicks.

Christopher Haokalani Spezzano
You are feeding into these sites. Can you please tell me which ones you are contributing to and which posts you've made? I'd like to be able to have the opportunity to counter your arguments in a professional way.

Christopher Haokalani Spezzano
Please answer my questions honestly, I've done the same for all of yours. Did Laura D giving Erick Gonzalez a gift of $50,000? Also, was she romantically enamored with Erick Gonzalez at any time? I'm also curious if Laura D now romantically involved with you? These issues all seem to be very important in regards to the stories you are peddling on the Internet and your Facebook page. I will do my very best to answer any and all of your questions. My parents have nothing to hide, and they've done nothing wrong.

Again, Junior gives us a lot of allegations and no proof, some different racist stereotypes for a change, plus that he now seems to seek refuge to a little smear campaign...

First of all, he is now employing a different racist stereotype by using the term 'rampage' to characterise Mr Greene's efforts to educate the public. The racist stereotype chosen now of course is the 'savage ndn'.

Christopher once more says his parents run a business. This is what NAFPS, Psiram, Morty the Dog, and Grifters Hotel have been saying all the time: PoV is a business, it is no science, and it is not done out of charity to help persons in distress. Other than to help them out of their money, that is. So thanks for another confirmation.

But, Christopher, since you claim to have had an education at a university, you should be aware of the differences between a business and a university. Unfortunately, you aren't. Of course Columbia (if that really was your alma mater, you send your former profs cringing with shame) is no cult. A university, in particular a renowned one, provides its attendants with a diploma, accepted in the business world and in science, on which they can build a life-long career. It is rather pretentious to equate a pyramid scam like PoV with an honourable university. With PoV, persons participating can only expect a sheet of paper not recognized anywhere outside PoV. A university also does not restrict its research to look for further ways to make money from its students, but does independent, scientific research, and this is a far cry from PoV.

Actually, if your parents' enterprise did happen to be a university, their methods and practices would be subject to peer review. Clearly, this has not been the case, it is not presently, and they are trying their utmost to prevent this from ever happening. Just why, since they seem to be so convinced they got the cure-all of all personal problems? Inquiring minds would like to know.

Things being as they are, Christopher's comparison of his parents' outfit to an honourable, renowned university comes across as conceited and pretentious. It seems exposition to PoV makes one lose one's grip of reality and facts.

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My parents have nothing to hide, and they've done nothing wrong.

Oh? What about this little slap Spezzano Sr got in Hawaii for posing as real psychologists?
What about all these trumpeting announcements as 'the world's most renowned psychologist' on numerous websites? Why are there no seminars offered in the USA outside of Hawaii?

And we're also curious why the Spezzanos left California in a hurry in 1982/3, after Chuck having set up shop in a private practice just a few years before? Was this simply because he needed the change to a warm climate with a sea-breeze – oh, wait a minute.... he had this in California already.

We also may detect a certain obsession with professionality or amateurism in Christopher:

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Professional research is done with a scientific, annalytical approach. It is done by peers. Amateur researchers don't often know the first things about doing credible research.

It is quite evident that Christopher isn't able to recognize professional research, even if it bites his behind. First of all, a professional, university-educated professional may be expected to be able to spell. It is somewhat embarassing to publish mis-spillings like „annalytical“, or even „their“ instead of 'there', and even grammatical glitches like „Did she giving...“. I must say, in my day, a course in sociology and politics – as Christopher claims to have done – meant that one not only knew a lot of 10-Dollar-words, but you were also expected to spell them correctly.

Perhaps all these orthographic and grammatic accidents reveal that some people are getting a bit nervous. This would be quite appropriate, since Christopher choses to dig up something from the relic box of racist stereotypes:

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Did Laura D giving Erick Gonzalez a gift of $50,000? Also, was she romantically enamored with Erick Gonzalez at any time? I'm also curious if Laura D now romantically involved with you?

This is not just insolent but goes beyond.
First of all, Christopher here attempts to whitewash the culprit, and turn a victim into the wrongdoer.

A plastic seeking to establish sexual relationships to his female students is something very well known to us here at NAFPS. Many of the plastics do; it is one way in which they try to establish dominion over their supporters and control them. Our boards also offer various examples of plastics inventing so-called ceremonies involving sexual relations, claiming these were genuine native.

Often, plastics are having such relationships while being married or maintaining a longterm relationship to someone they largely keep away from their business. This enables them to claim the marriage or relationship was wrecked which of course is used to raise hopes in the student to become this lady's replacement. It is also not unusual for a plastic to have sexual relations to more than one of their students at the same time, telling them to keep this quiet so that the other students don't become jealous. Just look at various threads here at NAFPS, there are several examples.

Another category of plastics is not content on starting relationships to those of his students willing enough, but prey on the reluctant ones. This perhaps gives them a more profound impression of their abilities. There are also various examples of such behaviour in our threads. Still another category of plastics commit rape which makes it very plain that this is not about sexual needs or desires, but about dominion, control, and exerting power.

Any such a relationship between a 'master' and a student also is not a relationship between two consenting and equal adults – it cannot be. There will always be power distinctions, an imbalance in power between the persons involved, which again shows such relations are about dominion and control in the first place. Exerting power and control over others is what the plastic is after and one strong motivation for them to enter this business, and a plastic can only maintain the flow of cash coming in as long as he is able to maintain control and dominion over his students.

As far as Gonzalez is concerned, he seems to be afraid to just rely on sweet-talking and also employs various drugs to make his students stay & pay.

Anyways, it is wrong and insolent to call such relationships "romantic", as Christopher does. This constellation is not about romance, never was, and never will be. While such a relationship lasts, it is employed to make women comply with the demands of the plastic. When the relationship, or the commitment to the cult, has ended, such an allegation is also convenient to smear the credibility of a person - whether the allegation happens to be true or whether it is a lie to begin with.

In which way is Christopher's allegation concerning Ms D racist? There are several aspects. One of them is the soooper-potent non-white male (as I take it Christopher will have swallowed Gonzalez claims of being Maya hook, line, and sinker) who also happens to be far better equipped than your usual white male. And of course to a racist, all these potent, abundantly equipped non-white males are eager to lay white women, 24/7. The racist even goes farther and believes that once a woman has experienced such a superior non-white stallion, they are damaged and can never again be content with a white man. Of course women inclined to have sexual relations with a non-white persons will be 'loose women' to the racist who thus relegates them into a lesser class.

Actually, this meant quite an effort to dig down into the racist relic box that it is hard to believe a person not even 40 years of age holds such beliefs. Two possibilities come to mind: Christopher only wrote what his father (whose age is far more in congruence with having been exposed to such stereotypes) told him to write, or Christopher passed on his password to his FB account.

Another possibility is that this attitude reflects which values and attitudes Christopher had taught to him in his parental home.

Wait a minute – and persons passing on attitudes like this are out to help First Nations, Asians etc to evolve, and to heal them? Errrrmmm....

Another racist stereotype this little smear campaign of Christopher's involves is once more the 'stupid ndn' which, again, is aimed at Mr Greene for allegedly believing the tales of a 'loose woman' and taking them serious, so that he is prompted to mutate into a 'savage' going on „rampants“.

« Last Edit: January 21, 2014, 12:24:52 am by Ingeborg »