Author Topic: 'Pow wow', West Knoyle, Wiltshire, UK July 2005  (Read 11666 times)

Offline RobintheDruid

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'Pow wow', West Knoyle, Wiltshire, UK July 2005
« on: June 16, 2005, 11:25:20 am »
Hi everyone, just to let you know that I'm due to go to the above event on 10-11 July this year. Normally I would go to Priddy Folk Festival instead, but following Al's talk in Glastonbury a few weeks back, I thought I would go along and check this out.

Its bound to be full of 'plastic shamans' and fake sweat lodges etc so if I get the opportunity I might say something about the importance of following one's own culture and traditions rather than stealing someone else's.

I would be grateful if anyone out there would tell me know who/what to look out for. I am also willing to act as anyones' 'voice', so that I can tell people just how annoying it is that New Agers are stealing Native American culture. So if you want me to say anything, just let me know your opinions and I will duly deliver them when/if I get a suitable opportunity.

Best wishes

Robin the Druid
Robin the Druid

Offline educatedindian

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Re: 'Pow wow', West Knoyle, Wiltshire, UK July 200
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2005, 12:53:59 pm »
This is great to hear, exactly the sort ofthing I hoped would come out of the tour. Fell free to make copies of any of the flyers from my speech and pass them out to any and all.

Some things to expect-
Security or bodyguards or entourages from the frauds out to silence you.
People moaning about negative energy.
Claims its only a few bad evil racist Natives who want disrespect stopped,when actually its the frauds and their supporters who are a tiny minority in Indian Country.
Demands that you prove youre some kind of special representative, or that you have to be an Indian to speak out against imposters or exploiters. This is like claiming you have to be Jewish to be against anti Semitism.

Barnaby or Ed might have some tips for you. Let us know what happens.

Offline Barnaby_McEwan

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Re: 'Pow wow', West Knoyle, Wiltshire, UK July 200
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2005, 08:53:05 pm »
Quote
Hi everyone, just to let you know that I'm due to go to the above event on 10-11 July this year. Normally I would go to Priddy Folk Festival instead, but following Al's talk in Glastonbury a few weeks back, I thought I would go along and check this out.

That's great! My sister lives near there, and if I'm not mistaken another member of this forum, Timberlinewarrior, lives close by. Feel free to PM me about this: if it turns out I can be there too, I will PM you. I can email you copies of the flyers from Al's talk, in pdf format for easy printing, or some other format if you like. They'll give you an idea what to look out for.

Quote
Its bound to be full of 'plastic shamans' and fake sweat lodges etc

I haven't been there but I think you'll be more likely to find 'hobbyists': the kind of people who are obsessed with reproducing things like clothes and beadwork as exactly as possible, rather than people selling fake ceremonies. Native people here will be able to advise on the propriety or otherwise of that kind of thing. Mind you there might well be some space-cadets there as well.
This Google-cached page about that farm

http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:xke61WVluKYJ:www.thisiswiltshire.co.uk/wiltshire/leisure/whatson/LEISURE_WHATSON_EVENTS22.html+%22Pow+wow%22+%22west+knoyle%22&hl=en

says they 'sell rawhide for drums and shields' and I bet their main customers are people making expensive paraphernalia for the new age market. This is their main site - not much on it:

http://www.bisonfarm.co.uk/index.htm

There's a warning on David Meanwell's site (he's also a member here) about UK pow-wows:

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/fourdirections/page19.html

Interesting you mention Priddy (that's about ten miles from Glastonbury, English geography fans). Gordon Reynolds died in a fake sweatlodge ceremony near there in 1996.

Offline ironhead

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Re: 'Pow wow', West Knoyle, Wiltshire, UK July 200
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2005, 09:34:28 pm »
Greetings, also be advised that since you say you might be asking questions and telling folks there that it is not right to hijack other's beliefs, for the wrong reasons, that you might be subject to personal violence. These people have "incomes" to support and may not like it if they feel those "incomes" are endangered. You might also be exposed to personal insults and ridicule. You must remember to "keep your temper", and not engage in too much "heated debate". This is for your safety.

Offline Barnaby_McEwan

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Re: 'Pow wow', West Knoyle, Wiltshire, UK July 200
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2005, 10:20:59 pm »
That's all good advice, but please don't worry too much about violence. I'm not saying it couldn't happen but we're talking about newagers, not nazi skinheads. Most are not at all violent;  a few are capable of getting very angry and making a lot of noise. When you challenge them, most wear an infuriatingly 'spiritual' mask behind which you can see they are boiling mad or frightened.
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 am by Barnaby_McEwan »

Offline RobintheDruid

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Re: 'Pow wow', West Knoyle, Wiltshire, UK July 200
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2005, 10:52:40 am »
Thanks Al, Barnaby and Ironhead. I'm going to play it carefully, and the main thing I'd like to do is write a report of it which I can post on here and other sites I've registered with.

However, if you know anyone who lives nearby or in the UK and can also go, if I have some backup I would feel more confident about challenging people.

Al, if you know anyone in the UK who I can join in with to stop this kind of cultural theft, I would like to start to get active on this.

And thanks very much for coming to Glastonbury in the first place and raising my awareness of this issue.

Robin
Robin the Druid

Offline RobintheDruid

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Re: 'Pow wow', West Knoyle, Wiltshire, UK July 200
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2005, 10:54:02 am »
Oh by the way, I can be reached on the following:

RobintheDruid@hotmail.co.uk
and RobintheDruid@yahoo.co.uk

Cheers

Robin
Robin the Druid

Offline Barnaby_McEwan

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Re: 'Pow wow', West Knoyle, Wiltshire, UK July 200
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2005, 05:10:32 pm »
Okay, I'll be in touch when I know what I'm doing.

Robin Whitlock

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Re: 'Pow wow', West Knoyle, Wiltshire, UK July 200
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2005, 11:48:11 am »
Barnaby, (and others) if you do make it to Wiltshire, my mobile number is 0786 776 8081. Don't try and call me just yet though as I need to pay my bill and Orange may try and cut me off, tho I should have paid it by the time of the pow wow.

By the way I was working the door for the Assembly Rooms in Glastonbury last night where there was a trance-dance rave gig with pseudo-shamanic overtones. The flyer mumbled something about a crystal skull made of red rock that was discovered in Arizona, and there was such a thing on an altar in the middle of the dance floor. The dj had rigged up this dj's booth which looked vaguely like a tipi being made up of three poles with white nylon sheet draped around it. Either side of this was two long backdrips cut and painted to look like totem poles. On each wall was a hoop with a drawing of buffalo-headed 'medicine man' on. Then there were various characters going around with braided leather costumes and face paints (including a good friend of mine whos into all this). Early on the music consisted of ambient trance dance e.g. orbital type stuff interspersed with recorded Native American chanting and drumming. A couple of the local New Age egotists were prancing around on the stage either side of the dj's booth.

Thankfully I was on the door, and by the time we had closed the doors at 11, the pseudo-shamanic stuff had given way to some really kicking right on techno (yehh!)

Anyway, just thought that would amuse a few people.

Hippies, pah!

Robin

Offline 180IQ

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Re: 'Pow wow', West Knoyle, Wiltshire, UK July 200
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2005, 01:33:44 pm »
I saw similar stuff when I visited Japan in 1997. Some of the kids were wearing tie-dye shirts, bell-bottom pants and lots of beads and leather. Same music too. And h-e-a-v-y drug use. Many were passed out all over the floor.

Offline ironhead

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Re: 'Pow wow', West Knoyle, Wiltshire, UK July 200
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2005, 08:18:51 pm »
Lets see, a crystal SKULL, on an ALTAR, with sort of "high" priests dancing around it.
Seems like Voo Doo to me. I don't know of any NDN dances that employed such "props". If their ARE any, please inform me of such

Offline educatedindian

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Re: 'Pow wow', West Knoyle, Wiltshire, UK July 200
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2005, 07:14:04 am »
Robin, I think most Native people would react to that much the way they did to OutKast´s performance at the Grammys. I´m now a FORMER OutKast fan, cant hear their music without a sick feeling.
http://www.bluecorncomics.com/stype425.htm

Offline AlaskaGrl

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Re: 'Pow wow', West Knoyle, Wiltshire, UK July 200
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2005, 02:23:08 am »
Quote
Lets see, a crystal SKULL, on an ALTAR, with sort of "high" priests dancing around it.
Seems like Voo Doo to me.


No, not any form of Voodoo.  It's more people cobbling together things on their table for looks and effects is my take.  Then again, if they are doing anything on their dance floor using items or others for some type of mixed up attempted "spell work" or whatever they may not like what could get them in that kind of "open" vulnerable condition/environment.  But I doubt that was the case and it is offensive to many people.

The regular "kicking tecno" at the end though sounds kool.  Lots of lights, loud music and fog?  any LASER beam effects there?   heh  I use to run LASER shows at our planetarium yrs ago.  It was grrrreat!

Linda.

Offline TimberlineWarrior

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Re: 'Pow wow', West Knoyle, Wiltshire, UK July 200
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2005, 06:12:39 pm »
Hi all,
I haven't been on for a while and decided to catch up on the latest.
I will be at the Bison Centre Pow wow. So anyone that comes, look for the tipi with the blue band around the base and red wolves painted around it and thats me.
I have been going there for a couple of years, but last year was the first year I'd taken a tipi. So I have had previous experience. If you're coming looking for a 'sweat' then you are almost certainly going to be out of luck. The drummers that are coming are Centreland Drummers and they follow the US guide to Pow Wow etiquette. So there will even be limits on photographs and certainly alcohol and intoxicating substances.
The dancers are quite 'enthusiastic' about their regalia and to a high standard as is the dancing and nobody that I met was claiming to be anything other than what they are- whites dressed as NA. There are usually several stalls there selling books, craft items and finished articles but nobody that I saw last year was making any false claims. In fact a couple of the stalls were run by NA people who were with the US Forces based here.
There was only one person that I would have taken offence with last year and that was one man who had a buffalo skull hung on the outside of his tipi and wearing a buffalo horn head dress. But he was making no claims to be a medicine man, just dressed as one.
If you want to stay over then let me know and I will try and find room in my tipi (19') or even take another as well.
Evening entertainment is usually a C & W band and the rest sit around and drum (for fun, not ceremony) a few might drink a can or two of beer but I have never seen any abuse there. The dawn chorus last year was an Ojibway flute maker serenading the sunrise with one of his flutes and beautiful to hear.

Regards
^. .^

Robin Whitlocl

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Re: 'Pow wow', West Knoyle, Wiltshire, UK July 200
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2005, 01:18:09 pm »
Thanks Timberline Warrior. Thats made me feel a lot better about going along. I'll probably only do so once as I normally go to the Priddy Folk Festival on the same weekend.

I'm going with some friends of mine from Glastonbury, so I'll look out for your tipi and come and connect if you don't mind.

See you there

Best wishes

Robin