NAFPS Forum
Odds and Ends => Etcetera => Topic started by: rain0033 on March 28, 2015, 04:48:47 pm
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This site is a joke. I am an "Ojibway" First Nations and darn proud of it. I have read all your posts bashing people of medicine. You people don't know these people personally or their stories. All I see is head hunting.... Everyone has a story and you should get to know them personally before you make your judgements. All I see here is a disgrace to our people. It would be a good site if you showed resources on how to help the sickly ill and where they can get spiritual help for their afflictions.
"The more they squawk, the more they show themselves to be panicked or paranoid." <----<< A childish and a very immature comment with no substance.
NAFPS takes pride in being called "Enemy"<---<< That subject line to me sounds like panicked or paranoid?
"Of course this post is just my opinion."
Aho... "Manitou"
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^ ...gonna guess that was sarcasm. Trololol, etc.
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This site is a joke. I am an "Ojibway" First Nations and darn proud of it. I have read all your posts bashing people of medicine. You people don't know these people personally or their stories. All I see is head hunting.... Everyone has a story and you should get to know them personally before you make your judgements. All I see here is a disgrace to our people. It would be a good site if you showed resources on how to help the sickly ill and where they can get spiritual help for their afflictions.
"The more they squawk, the more they show themselves to be panicked or paranoid." <----<< A childish and a very immature comment with no substance.
NAFPS takes pride in being called "Enemy"<---<< That subject line to me sounds like panicked or paranoid?
"Of course this post is just my opinion."
Aho... "Manitou"
rain0033, what "people of medicine" are you referring to? If you feel that we have wronged someone, then give us particulars. It does no good to make general statements such as you have. It is true that in most cases we do not know someone personally, but we almost always take what they have said from their own websites.
In order to show "how to help the sickly ill and where they can get spiritual help for their afflictions," I think it is pretty clear if you have been on the site very long that we emphasize that no one "pays to pray" and the work we do here is intended to help the vulnerable so that they do not fall prey to people who would exploit them.
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Rain, you say you're "Ojibway" and then sign out using the classic Generokee term that's actually a Kiowa word... Interesting.
And seriously, though, you are totally right. There is disgrace to our people all over this site. Natives SELLING these services and selling them to non-Indigenous people, whether they're qualified or not. How many of these hundreds of scam artists listed here have been busted simply by someone asking at their home land area and asking about them? Incalculable. When their own tribe disowns them and tells the world they are not qualified to even pray for another human being's meal, that's a pretty clear indicator they're doing actual harm by continuing to practice any ways of spirituality. Especially charging for it! REAL MEDICINE PEOPLE DO NOT HAVE WEBSITES or FACEBOOK PAGES. Point blank. They do not advertise in any way whatsoever except word of mouth among those who know. They certainly do not charge thousands of dollars and burn sage around their head and add elements of spiritualism from other cultures. They are the ones taking away from the medicine. Not this site nor these diligent and dedicated people, native and not. In fact, they're protecting it from charlatans and phony a-holes you're defending, Rain. (And my response here doesn't even include the THOUSANDS of non-Native people engaging in the exploitation of our sacred ways) So.... List just one single person who's been falsely accused here which you know personally and list why these accusations are wrong. We'll wait............ or just don't ever take the side of fakes and exploiters against actual Native people ever again and you can live your life knowing you chose to do the right thing by all our ancestors and condemn the abuses and fraud listed and thoroughly documented on these pages. That's assuming you're actually Native. But then again, we've seen dozens of apologists like you over the years so it's not a stretch, especially if you're financially entwined with a few. I'm not saying, I'm just saying.
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Rain, your post of personal attacks was removed. Further ones where you act like a 5 year old won't be allowed either. Kindly grow up.
As others said, please be specific in your criticisms. Which alleged medicine person are you defending or arguing was falsely accused?
It's pretty ludicrous to insist we personally know every person. Do you also demand that no one point out a con man is a con man, unless you personally meet them?
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:)
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So when someone expresses opinions and not to your methods you call it a personal attack? I guess the word "rant" in my last post you deleted offended you? 'lol' "Your site promotes hatred.
rain, the only hate you find here is the hate you have brought. I am still very confused about who you feel you are defending. Since you claim to be a proud Ojibway, are we to guess that it is a fellow Ojibway that this site has supposedly offended? If we have wrongly accused someone, we would certainly like to clear things up.
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:)
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Thank you for clarifying somewhat, rain. I do find the deletion of posts unfortunate since it leaves many of us scratching our heads wondering what was said, but I respect Al's judgment. I certainly do not agree with you, however, that it shows "dishonesty" on Al's part.
I still find your initial post and your clarifying post to be somewhat in conflict. You started out saying that "this site is a joke" (dis-respect to us it seems to me) and that you had read all our posts "bashing people of medicine" and that we should never express an opinion of anyone unless we know them personally.
In your follow-up post, you seem to be saying that we are all "people of medicine" and that we should never disrespect anyone since we are "all people of medicine" and we are all healers. So following that line of reasoning, you feel that any and all posts on this site are "offensive and disrespect another human being". Am I understanding you right?
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:)
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Hello Rain, I am Lakota and Dakota and a member of this site.
i live my culture and way of life, and live on my reservation.
I know that if pay to pray you are wrong!
there so many people who abuse our way of life.
so many of the lie about who they are, many claiming to be native,
with no indian blood, this site help with the frauds who exist out there.
if you have names of people who you believe are being false accused,
please provide information, the research section is for this, to find proof
or to find that a person is false accused,
have a good day
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:)
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Squawking pretty loud now, eh? Place this one in a new category: "Lost Causes"
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:)
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Omg! Another one going off the rails. And what's up with the weird stories...?? That's a new one. What is she saying?? I'll prove to all of you I'm really NDN by telling some whackadoodle story. Now I've seen it all. You white people are exhausting!
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So, somewhere in all this bluster is the name of someone they're associated with who was put on blast. Probably recently. I think it would be interesting to find out which one. No actual Native person who's acted this way ever did so in just a general manner. There's almost always someone in particular that they walk to the wrong side for. These oblique attacks and statements all have root in a real person they feel compelled to defend, even if their name is unknown.
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Rain could be a fraud already in research here. They remind me of the Wm Frederick Posey AKA Turtle Heart thread here. He claims he is Ojibwe. And we have not been giving him any attention lately.
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I was away today so I missed all the interaction on this thread and have no idea what was said. Talk about deleting posts!
Crazy stuff! Just why? Why?
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Hey, what happened to all the posts?? Hmmm...I guess that rain person deleted her God awful "elders story". Lol! She wanted to share with us to prove she was a bona fide NDN.
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Hey, what happened to all the posts?? Hmmm...I guess that rain person deleted her God awful "elders story". Lol! She wanted to share with us to prove she was a bona fide NDN.
I thought the NAFPS site had been changed so that people could not delete their posts, but maybe I am mistaken.
Was her "elder" the person she felt we had offended and who she came here to defend (although she would not name names)? Still, very weird stuff.
One other thing is very bizarre. She started out as "rain0033" with one post and moved to just "rain" with eight posts. What is up with that? Were there two people who signed up under separate names, or did the original poster somehow change their name?
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Hey, what happened to all the posts?? Hmmm...I guess that rain person deleted her God awful "elders story". Lol! She wanted to share with us to prove she was a bona fide NDN.
I thought the NAFPS site had been changed so that people could not delete their posts, but maybe I am mistaken.
Was her "elder" the person she felt we had offended and who she came here to defend (although she would not name names)? Still, very weird stuff.
One other thing is very bizarre. She started out as "rain0033" with one post and moved to just "rain" with eight posts. What is up with that? Were there two people who signed up under separate names, or did the original poster somehow change their name?
Hi Autumn, she was responding to Earth's post and went off on one of her tangents, posting some long ass story some elder told her. She did mention the elders name sorry I can't remember it. The story took up half a page and I only glanced at it. Anyway she took it down almost as fast as she put it up. Maybe Earth can remember more since she was talking to her.
Diana
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Thanks, Diana.
The only other person I know of who has come to this site who was so good at deleting all their posts (plus the entire thread) was Cate Crow. She was the person who was sending out information on a fake cancer cure, supposedly based on an "Ojibway medicine man's formula".
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=4443.0
Wonder if "rain" or "rain0033" is a new reincarnation of Cate? She regretted that she used her real name as a login the first time around. :o :o :o
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After this post I'm going to refrain from participating in this thread unless Rain is comfortable with my interaction. I know Rain, I know that she is a he and that it is not Cate. Rain, I am under the impression that your old issues have resurfaced. I would suggest talking to individuals at Iskatewizaagegan that may be able to help you, like your Dad for example.
Eta - going by information that only admins are privy to, both rain accounts belong to the same person. One of the accounts is no longer viable.
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rain and rain033 are separate profiles, the former being the older of the two.
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rain and rain033 are separate profiles, the former being the older of the two.
Thanks for that. I could have checked the profiles myself and forgot about it.
rain0033 joined 9/1/14
rain joined 6/25/13
rain0033 only commented on this thread, but rain has commented on two other threads besides this one.
So whether they are the same person, or two different people is still unknown.
As a matter of fact, when I commented to "rain" that there seemed to be discrepancies about what they said in the initial post and the later post, they did not disavow the earlier post as belonging to them.
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Same person. The email for the rain profile is rain033@yahoo. LOL
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Same person. The email for the rain profile is rain033@yahoo. LOL
Thanks. He managed to sign up twice then.
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Is very sad to see that some people take our people's medicine as a joke,
or a form to make scams to make money
This is another reason we need a council of Elders from every Tribe, and laws to protect our ceremonies and cultural beliefs
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Is very sad to see that some people take our people's medicine as a joke,
or a form to make scams to make money
This is another reason we need a council of Elders from every Tribe, and laws to protect our ceremonies and cultural beliefs
BBM -- What about the NCAI?
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The NCAI is about protection government and land, the National Congress is busy with watching the United States on all their moves,
Each tribe must set up their own because all of our cultures are different and there is no one rules for our beliefs, except in most
NO NON-Natives allowed.
We also need a form set up on all these so called " I WAS ADOPTED BY TRIBE FRAUDS" then who is really Native and who is not, this form is just the beginning, We have put out proclamation on our belief but many Non-Native don't listen to them, the proclamation states NO NON-Natives may run ceremonies, or hold pipes, or speak for our people.
NON -Native don't listen and think they have some sort of right to other people belief, they are thief and steal from a people who hold these ways in their hearts, I find that Non Native "who want to be us" are usually mental ill or damaged in some sort of way that they are looking for a quick fix to their problems instead of dealing with their issues, they come from background of abuse, or just plain unhappy with their world so they want to steal another world, when our ways are too hard for them they change them to fit their quick fix, like a junkie on heron, Then if you says "No can do that", they get mad, get defensive like a person who has their drugs taken from them.
I find that these so called NON-Natives take these crazy names with no understanding of how or who give or gets names, I even seen where these crazy people give themselves names, they we ask who are you related too, it is always some dead, or some unnamed "shaman", which is a laugh because we have no shamans. Then we have crazy white women who want to be goddess so claiming to be he White Buffalo Calf Woman but we have no goddesses in my culture.
None of these so called shaman do anything for my people and yes we are angry, "no we are NOT the peace-all harmony Indian people, we are warriors and we will fight you, we know our way of life. Thats my rant for the day everyone have a good day.
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After this post I'm going to refrain from participating in this thread unless Rain is comfortable with my interaction. I know Rain, I know that she is a he and that it is not Cate. Rain, I am under the impression that your old issues have resurfaced. I would suggest talking to individuals at Iskatewizaagegan that may be able to help you, like your Dad for example.
Eta - going by information that only admins are privy to, both rain accounts belong to the same person. One of the accounts is no longer viable.
Thanks, Sky. I hope Rain finds peace. Sometimes on this site, it is hard knowing exactly what is being discussed, especially when posts are deleted.
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The NCAI is about protection government and land, the National Congress is busy with watching the United States on all their moves,
Each tribe must set up their own because all of our cultures are different and there is no one rules for our beliefs, except in most
NO NON-Natives allowed.
We also need a form set up on all these so called " I WAS ADOPTED BY TRIBE FRAUDS" then who is really Native and who is not, this form is just the beginning, We have put out proclamation on our belief but many Non-Native don't listen to them, the proclamation states NO NON-Natives may run ceremonies, or hold pipes, or speak for our people.
NON -Native don't listen and think they have some sort of right to other people belief, they are thief and steal from a people who hold these ways in their hearts, I find that Non Native "who want to be us" are usually mental ill or damaged in some sort of way that they are looking for a quick fix to their problems instead of dealing with their issues, they come from background of abuse, or just plain unhappy with their world so they want to steal another world, when our ways are too hard for them they change them to fit their quick fix, like a junkie on heroin, Then if you says "No can do that", they get mad, get defensive like a person who has their drugs taken from them.
I find that these so called NON-Natives take these crazy names with no understanding of how or who give or gets names, I even seen where these crazy people give themselves names, they we ask who are you related too, it is always some dead, or some unnamed "shaman", which is a laugh because we have no shamans. Then we have crazy white women who want to be goddess so claiming to be he White Buffalo Calf Woman but we have no goddesses in my culture.
None of these so called shaman do anything for my people and yes we are angry, "no we are NOT the peace-all harmony Indian people, we are warriors and we will fight you, we know our way of life. Thats my rant for the day everyone have a good day.
Totally with you on a lot of that, Earth. The NCAI needs a cultural protection branch backed by law or just have some actual teeth in general. We could already be headed towards political representation in the US government as an ethnic entity had they worked things right (a sovereignty issue). But lots of other Indigenous peoples have representation in various Parliaments around the world in nations far less progressive than the US and Canada.
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Good to know there' is a true council in USA....Iam in Puerto Rico...and we been having lots of problems with
People claiming to be Chiefs and Shamans of The Native American Tradition and stealing my people blind
When I have known first hand true Chiefs dont conduct themselves in such manner,
Thank you for making me aware there is a place we can seek help.
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NON -Native don't listen and think they have some sort of right to other people belief, they are thief and steal from a people who hold these ways in their hearts, I find that Non Native "who want to be us" are usually mental ill or damaged in some sort of way that they are looking for a quick fix to their problems instead of dealing with their issues, they come from background of abuse, or just plain unhappy with their world so they want to steal another world, when our ways are too hard for them they change them to fit their quick fix, like a junkie on heron, Then if you says "No can do that", they get mad, get defensive like a person who has their drugs taken from them.
Earth, I'm new to this forum, but wanted to comment on this statement in particular. I was associated with the NeoPagan community in Columbus Ohio for maybe 3 years. I witnessed the appropriation of many cultures' beliefs. Things I did not agree with.
Many who want to do this to the native belief systems are themselves ungrounded. They are under the false impression that stealing someone's culture will provide the culture they lack. Perhaps, they are too lazy to ferret out their own cultural heritage.
Furthermore, non-Natives live in a world of religious and ceremonial smorgasbord where anything goes. Regarding native ways, a former acquaintance of mine said " anything that benefits me spiritually, I'm entitled to" and my response was, " the people that made that spiritual path are entitled to allow or disallow whatever they choose for it is their path". To these ones, the native path is another spiritual"meal" they can eat free of charge or so they delude themselves into thinking.
Which brings to a third point, the matter of respect. The people who do this have no respect for any faith or cultural spiritual path. I doubt if they respect themselves. In this, they are to be pitied.
I truly wish there was an answer to end it. Perhaps, one day, people will wake up and find that respecting another's cultural heritage is a joyous thing and, then, the need to steal it will vanish.
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Thank you Larry, I have met some great people who respect our ways and are accepted because they
don't want to take what is not their to take, They come and help out and our job is to pray for them
there is balance in this, but i have seen so many who do these things for self gain not for healing