NAFPS Forum

General => Frauds => Topic started by: catecrow on August 19, 2014, 06:55:53 pm

Title: Cherry Valley Farm, Retreat, & Cate Crow's plagiarized fake cancer cures
Post by: catecrow on August 19, 2014, 06:55:53 pm
 :'(
Title: Re: Cherry Valley Farm & Retreat (split from Pete Bernard thread)
Post by: Defend the Sacred on August 19, 2014, 07:48:15 pm
I am also from the pre-computer generation. Being from a good family does not mean every thing that every member of that extended family does is going to be a good choice. I understand family loyalty. But when people go outside the community and sell ceremony and questionable cures to vulnerable people, that is a cause for concern, to everyone it touches.

Personally, I think it is irresponsible and potentially dangerous to give out unproven "cancer cures" on the Internet. The formula given is not Ojibwe. I am pretty certain it was created by a white woman, Rene Caisse. It is her formula for Essiac (she named it after herself, her name spelled backwards). While some of the herbs in the formula certainly have medicinal uses, and some of these herbs can be used to support the system, it is not a cancer cure. It is my understanding that Ms. Caisse falsely claimed to have learned the remedy from Natives because she felt it would have more credibility this way. So it's sad to see Natives believing something a white person made up.

http://www.cherryvalleyretreat.com/010~Welcome/CH-V-ObjibwayCancerCure.pdf

ETA: Cate Crow deleted a number of her posts, and this whole thing started as a tangent in another thread. Downthread is the link to the website where Cate promotes essiac as a cancer cure. Sorry for the lack of continuity.
Title: Re: Cherry Valley Farm & Retreat (split from Pete Bernard thread)
Post by: earthw7 on August 19, 2014, 07:55:26 pm
this is another case of where a white person is tell us what is right for our people >:(
Title: Re: Cherry Valley Farm & Retreat (split from Pete Bernard thread)
Post by: catecrow on August 19, 2014, 08:06:49 pm
 :'(
Title: Re: Cherry Valley Farm & Retreat (split from Pete Bernard thread)
Post by: Smart Mule on August 19, 2014, 08:11:14 pm
Defend the Sacred?  Druids?  Labyrinth?
Title: Re: Cherry Valley Farm & Retreat (split from Pete Bernard thread)
Post by: Defend the Sacred on August 19, 2014, 08:14:05 pm
this is another case of where a white person is tell us what is right for our people >:(

I agree.

I know a number of people, some of them Native, who have used this formula. It didn't cure any of them. The ones with breast cancer died. Laboratory tests show the herb formula you're promoting, Cate, can increase the growth of breast cancer cells.

Like many members of this board, I work with herbs. I am not someone who blindly promotes mainstream medicine. But I don't ignore scientific studies, either.  Cancer is a serious disease, and people should work with competent healers. Any herbs that are strong enough to be effective can have potential side effects and drug interactions. That's why people study for years to be herbalists. If a remedy is strong enough to heal, it's strong enough to harm if used incorrectly.

http://www.cancer.org/treatment/treatmentsandsideeffects/complementaryandalternativemedicine/herbsvitaminsandminerals/essiac-tea

"...most laboratory studies of Essiac have found it didn’t work against cancer cells, and one reported that Flor Essence increased the growth of breast cancer cells. "

"Essiac may cause headache, nausea, diarrhea or constipation, vomiting, low blood sugar, liver damage, and kidney damage. Allergic rashes are possible. Rarely, serious allergic reactions have been reported.

"In addition, the potential interactions between Essiac and other drugs and herbs should be considered. Some of these combinations may be dangerous. Always tell your doctor and pharmacist about any herbs you are taking.

"Relying on this type of treatment alone and avoiding or delaying conventional medical care for cancer may have serious health consequences."
Title: Re: Cherry Valley Farm & Retreat (split from Pete Bernard thread)
Post by: Defend the Sacred on August 19, 2014, 08:15:18 pm
Which draoithe, from which culture, used labyrinths, Cate?

ETA: Cate has deleted her post where she said she taught about "druid labyrinths" at Cherry Valley.
Title: Re: Cherry Valley Farm & Retreat (split from Pete Bernard thread)
Post by: Defend the Sacred on August 19, 2014, 08:17:16 pm
Which Ojibwe elder is claiming this is their formula, and advising people to use it?

ETA: Cate Crow has deleted her post where she claimed that Rene Caisse's "essiac" formula came to Cate "direct from the lips of an Ojibwe Elder."
Title: Re: Cherry Valley Farm & Retreat (split from Pete Bernard thread)
Post by: Epiphany on August 19, 2014, 08:28:58 pm
The return of the Labyrinth at the Cherry Valley Farm, by Cate Crow http://www.newspapers-online.com/tecumseth/?p=5564 (http://www.newspapers-online.com/tecumseth/?p=5564)

Quote
The labyrinth was also found in North and South America. The new world natives regarded the labyrinth as a sacred path to the home of a sacred ancestor or the path to the ancestor himself.
Title: Re: Cherry Valley Farm & Retreat (split from Pete Bernard thread)
Post by: Smart Mule on August 19, 2014, 08:37:35 pm
That was a total attack. I don't teach new age workshops. I'm not employed by Cherry Valley. I know the owner of Cherry Valley. I have talked about the historical use of the labyrinth which goes back 4,000 years to the druids and ancient native cultures in North and South America in the past on her farm. I did it for free. Wow, you've been busy checking me out on the net. Have you figured out my background yet? Who my people are? What my community is? Do you know what I did for a living? Don't worry, I keep my spiritual life to myself and I'm not out there scamming anyone. I was a teacher of native history for over 30 years. My relations are Cree...how sad to find myself investigated like some kind of criminal.  Actually Kathryn, the formula I gave the owner of Cherry Valley came straight from the lips of an Ojibwe elder.

Cate the formula you provided is essiac http://www.ojibwatea.com/essiac_description.php (http://www.ojibwatea.com/essiac_description.php)

Did you know that not only is sheep sorrel and allergen but that it contains oxalic acid which is damaging to the kidneys?  Did you know that turkey rhubarb is very dangerous for people with colitis and ulcers? It is dangerous for women who are pregnant because it can increase menses.  It's dangerous for people with osteoporosis because of the oxalic acid.  Point being, it's dangerous.

If you will note in regard to Cherry Hill, I said that both Nora and you have taught/facilitated there.  I did not say that you, Cate Crow, charged money for teachings.  You came up when I was looking into Cherry Hill, nothing more than that.  Don't be so paranoid.

Now, can we please talk about why it is okay for Nora to promote inaccurate information about other cultures?

Oh and blood root is caustic.  Ingesting it can kill somebody.  It will also make a person test positive for opiates, something that here in the states can have drastic repercussions, from failing sobriety tests to getting removed from organ donor lists.
Title: Re: Cherry Valley Farm & Retreat (split from Pete Bernard thread)
Post by: Defend the Sacred on August 19, 2014, 08:43:21 pm
The return of the Labyrinth at the Cherry Valley Farm, by Cate Crow http://www.newspapers-online.com/tecumseth/?p=5564 (http://www.newspapers-online.com/tecumseth/?p=5564)

From the above link:

"The seven circuits represent the seven chakras or power centers of the body (root, sacral, solar plexus, heart, throat, third-eye, crown). It is no coincidence that the labyrinth design is analogous to the concept of kundalini energy. Kundalini remains coiled like a serpant at the base of the spine until the time when it is awakened and rises through the metaphysical body, piercing each energy center or chakra in turn. Upon reaching the crown, the subject is said to have reached enlightenment."

Chakras are not NDN, or "druidic." Traditional South Asican cultures, for whom chakras and kundalini are part of their heritage, are very different from this sort of nuage, Western view. Nuagers usually try to push for "kundalini awakening" via methods that have caused psychotic episodes, and awakened latent bipolar or schizoid disorders. It's not something people outside those cultures should be dabbling in, and it has nothing to do with the Christian labyrinths found in Europe.
Title: Re: Cherry Valley Farm & Retreat (split from Pete Bernard thread)
Post by: Autumn on August 20, 2014, 01:16:44 am
Quote
Labyrinth Teachings and Portal experience with Cate Crow

    August 18, 2012 · 1:00 PM
    Cherry Valley Retreat

Saturday August 18th 1:00pm to 4:00pm
Cate Crow conducts labyrinth and portal/vortex tours at the farm. She will teach you about the history and spiritual purpose of the labyrinth before you walk it yourself to discover it’s power and secrets. She will then guide you to the sacred portals / vortexes on the property. These are powerful healing centers which are connected to all major spiritual sites around the world including Stonehenge, Macchu Pichu, Sedona Arizona and Egypt. Under one of most powerful portals on the property lies a crystal medicine wheel 75’ below the ground. According to Nora WalksInSpirit, she also advises that the portal behind the barns is the largest in Canada.
Come and experience these energies for yourself at Cherry Valley Retreat.
By Donation
http://www.meetup.com/Soul-Growth/events/78153872/

Quote
I don't teach new age workshops. I'm not employed by Cherry Valley. I know the owner of Cherry Valley. I have talked about the historical use of the labyrinth which goes back 4,000 years to the druids and ancient native cultures in North and South America in the past on her farm. I did it for free.
Title: Re: Cherry Valley Farm & Retreat (split from Pete Bernard thread)
Post by: Sturmboe on August 20, 2014, 08:21:03 am

The return of the Labyrinth at the Cherry Valley Farm, by Cate Crow http://www.newspapers-online.com/tecumseth/?p=5564 (http://www.newspapers-online.com/tecumseth/?p=5564)



Quote:

Archive
The return of the Labyrinth at the Cherry Valley Farm

October 5, 2013   ·   0 Comments

Prehistoric Labyrinths date back more than 4,000 years and have always been used in a spiritual manner. The Greeks and Romans used labyrinths for group ritual and private meditation. The labyrinth appeared on Cretan coins in 430 BC and by 1000 AD the labyrinth started to appear on church walls and floors.

In the medieval times, the labyrinth symbolized a path to God with the center being God and the one entrance symbolizing birth. Walking the path meant ascending towards salvation or enlightenment. During the Renaissance, labyrinths started appearing in the cathedrals of France and across Europe. They provided a symbolic journey to the Holy City of Jerusalem. Since many people could not afford to travel or make a pilgrimage to the holy land or to holy sites, the labyrinth provided a substitute for such travel. The labyrinth was always walked with prayers and devotions being said.

The labyrinth was also found in North and South America. The new world natives regarded the labyrinth as a sacred path to the home of a sacred ancestor or the path to the ancestor himself.

Many newly made labyrinths are reappearing today in churches, parks and hospital settings. They are used by many to help achieve a contemplative state and to meditate. Walking among the turnings one loses track of direction and of the outside world and thus quiets the mind. Some researchers say that going around in circles of the winding path may produce subtle neurological effects that facilitate deeper states of consciousness. British researchers indicate that the labyrinth may affect brain wave activity which increases mental clarity. For many people, the labyrinth is first and foremost a spiritual device, a place for finding deeper meaning in life, for spiritual renewal and transformation, for finding inner peace and for encountering the divine in whatever form they conceive of it.

The classical seven ring design connects the mind, body and soul to the Universe. The seven circuits represent the seven chakras or power centers of the body (root, sacral, solar plexus, heart, throat, third-eye, crown). It is no coincidence that the labyrinth design is analogous to the concept of kundalini energy. Kundalini remains coiled like a serpant at the base of the spine until the time when it is awakened and rises through the metaphysical body, piercing each energy center or chakra in turn. Upon reaching the crown, the subject is said to have reached enlightenment.

The labyrinth is often confused with a maze. A maze is a complex puzzle to be solved with many paths branching off and many directions to travel whereas a labyrinth has a single path which leads to the center. It is not designed to be difficult to navigate. It offers one choice, whether or not to walk a spiritual path.

The most basic metaphor for walking a labyrinth is that of Life’s Journey. Walk the labyrinth while being mindful of your life. Envision your life’s goal. Walk to the center and see what you learn. Before you go in, ask a question that you want an answer to. While you walk wait for the answer to come to you.

How can you tell if you have had a meaningful experience in a labyrinth? Often by the vivid dreams you have afterwards, strange sensations you feel in your body, insights or truths that have hit you between the eyes. All are manifestation of the energy contained in these ancient devices. Spiritual experiences are also very common within labyrinths. Walkers sometimes report quite intense mystical states including union with a divine force or spirit energies, communion with deceased relatives, or seeing animal messengers. Some manage to resolve longstanding problems or struggles. Labyrinths help people through major life transitions such as divorce or grief over the death of a loved one, trauma, abuse and illness. Walking the labyrinth helps release core fears, helps transform and rebalance while opening one up to the presence of the divine.




This could be very dangerous, especially for traumatized people.
You got any clue what are you forcing .... ?
Is it an experience, or it is more true to say it is an experiment, the results will come, sooner or later and the person cannot be sure if he / she can deal with it...


[/quote]
Title: Re: Cherry Valley Farm & Retreat (split from Pete Bernard thread)
Post by: catecrow on August 20, 2014, 02:00:35 pm
I'm going to start by apologizing for anything I said that was upsetting. It was never my intent to come in here and create anger. I came in to support a friend only. Her experience is very real. My spiritual beliefs are my own and I'm allowed to have them. I never claimed to follow traditional native teachings even if I have the utmost respect for them. I have a mix of Scottish, Irish and some of my relations are Cree who live in Manitoba and Ontario.

I've read a lot about Rene Caisse. She was from Bracebridge, Ontario. There are statues to her in that town. Rene was a nurse who had a patient in 1922. This woman told Rene she had breast cancer and was cured by the Ojibwa. She wrote down the recipe she was given to Rene. The formula is the same one I gave the owner of Cherry Valley. It is straight from the lips of an Ontario Ojibwa elder and I think that is obvious when you read that post carefully. I didn't write what was on the website, I simply e-mailed her the formula. And no, I'm not going to give his name after I saw my personal information bandied about in here. I never asked for that when I came in here. I will know better than to come on a chat site on the internet under my own name again. My fault. Lesson learned. For 50 years Rene fought the cancer industry who wanted to shut her down because she was actually curing people with herbs. She cured thousands of patients across Canada and the USA even JFK's personal physician. He wanted to go public with the formula but was threatened with jail if he did. Cancer was the #1 profit making disease in the industry...still is. I gave the formula to a friend of mine who was a doctor with stage 4 ovarian cancer. Her cancer marker went from 487 to 214 on the Essiac formula. When her oncologist asked her what she was doing, she told him. He approved. This was before she started conventional treatment. She is alive and well today and feels it really helped her. It has a long history of documented success. Chemo and radiation is harder on the body then anything else. Chemo is poison. I personally feel it kills more people then it cures. And no, I was not aware of the side effects of the herbs.

The facts I wrote on the labyrinth are all documented and can be found on different websites. Google Druid labyrinth, Native American labyrinth, Christian labyrinth, Roman labyrinth, Greek labyrinth and it all comes up. I know that chakras and kundalini energy have nothing to do with NDN or druid beliefs. That is one of the interpretations of the labyrinth design from Eastern religions. Thank you for informing me of the dangers. For the Christians, the 7 circuits are based on the 7 sacraments. No one has ever forced anyone to walk a labyrinth. They are used for quiet reflection today and spiritual insight. They are being built in Canada in hospitals, parks, mental institutions etc. because they are shown to help people. I found the labyrinth very helpful when dealing with my divorce, depression, anxiety and PTSD. I wouldn't recommend it or write about it if I didn't feel it helped others. I'm a retired teacher and I write for a local newspaper. I get assignments from the editor and I cover the story. I did the labyrinth and portal tours for free. If the owner wants to collect a donation to support her farm, that is up to her. She is an elderly lady and relies on the income to support herself. She is by no means rich, quite the opposite, and her farm is in desperate need of repair. I was never employed by her.

As for Nora's bio...it is what it is. That is her story. I'm not questioning it. I had my own NDE in 1999 and surprisingly saw Jesus. I wasn't a church goer at the time. I'm still not. I still feel my closest connection to God in nature. I said it was not for ME to question her. I believe her. I only wanted to support her. I think it is important to talk to the person who is being discussed. I would be required to do that for any news story.

I won't bother you again and I would really appreciate it if you stopped posting about me. I taught and I write local news articles. I'm a private person who is really quite shy and reserved. I'm not making a living on spiritual beliefs. I did a favor for the owner of Cherry ValIey about 4 times last summer. I no longer do that. I apologize again for losing my cool yesterday. Take Care.
Title: Re: Cherry Valley Farm & Retreat (split from Pete Bernard thread)
Post by: earthw7 on August 20, 2014, 02:13:22 pm
I understand what you are saying but as a native woman
I have to stand up and stop the abuse of our cultural ways
They continue to be corrupted by non native who take our
medicine with out proper ways use them for profit, once a dollar amount is
put to anything spiritual it is not spiritual, I still cant understand why today
the non native has done everything against the native people steal our land our rights,
our way of life now they want to steal our spirituality. It is wrong!
The whites are so privileged that they think its ok because it is their life of steal others cultures.
So I am sorry to have to do this education but it is hard to teach people what is wrong and
what is right.
Title: Re: Cherry Valley Farm & Retreat (split from Pete Bernard thread)
Post by: catecrow on August 20, 2014, 02:38:07 pm
I respect that earth. I do understand. I have never intentionally disrespected any religious belief. If I have said or done anything that has offended you or any native person, I am so sorry. It was never my intent and if I did it was from lack of knowledge.
Title: Re: Cherry Valley Farm & Retreat (split from Pete Bernard thread)
Post by: Autumn on August 20, 2014, 02:47:42 pm
Thank you, Cate.  I think your intentions are good and that you felt you were doing the right thing.  That is all any of us can do in life.

I am sorry that you felt the need to delete all your posts, however, since this serves no purpose whatsoever. Anyone reading the threads cannot see the process you went through in coming to your final thoughts.
Title: Re: Cherry Valley Farm & Retreat (split from Pete Bernard thread)
Post by: catecrow on August 20, 2014, 03:05:51 pm
Thank you Autumn. I was feeling embarrassed and upset yesterday, to be honest, could not sleep and just wanted to erase time.

Have to go now. Thanks again.
Title: Re: Cherry Valley Farm & Retreat (split from Pete Bernard thread)
Post by: Ingeborg on August 20, 2014, 04:02:03 pm

We have already got a thread on Essiac: http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=3226.0

As the post dates from 2011, the Wikipedia entry meanwhile has seen many changes effected.
One of them, quite incidentially, concerns the part where the article explained that from seven ingredients of Essiac, three are not native to North America. This speaks against a traditional indigenous mix.
According to the Wikipedia article, the recipe allgedly came from an Ojibwe medicine man.

The other thing is that the claims of Caisse having "fought the cancer industry who wanted to shut her down because she was actually curing people with herbs" are not based on facts. There is no 'cancer industry', Caisse had her own clinic which she closed in 1942 but continued to treat patients although she was no medical doctor. There is no proof of her having cured any person, and the tea was not approved as a medical treatment in Canada and the USA or anywhere else. It is therefore sold as a dietary supplement.

And last not least: chemotherapy does not kill people. Cancer does. And keeping people ignorant resp pulling wool over their eyes does.

Title: Re: Cherry Valley Farm & Retreat (split from Pete Bernard thread)
Post by: Defend the Sacred on August 20, 2014, 06:10:47 pm
I have a mix of Scottish, Irish and some of my relations are Cree who live in Manitoba and Ontario.
...
Google Druid labyrinth,
...
I apologize again for losing my cool yesterday. Take Care.

Go raibh maith agaibh / Tapdh leibh for your apology, Cate. 

I also have Irish and Scottish ancestors, and relatives among some of the eastern Nations.  People from outside Celtic cultures started harming the ways of our ancestors long before they got to Turtle Island to try the same thing on the Natives here. But some of our ways survived. They do not include "druid labyrinths." I was asking for an actual, historically sound source, not the nuage pages that come up in a google search.  I'll continue this in the thread on Nora, here: http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=3612
Title: Re: Cherry Valley Farm & Retreat (split from Pete Bernard thread)
Post by: Sturmboe on August 21, 2014, 08:19:12 am
Quote

1.
For 50 years Rene fought the cancer industry who wanted to shut her down because she was actually curing people with herbs. ... Cancer was the #1 profit making disease in the industry...still is. ...

2.
I gave the formula to a friend of mine who was a doctor with stage 4 ovarian cancer. Her cancer marker went from 487 to 214 on the Essiac formula. When her oncologist asked her what she was doing, she told him. ... She is alive and well today and feels it really helped her....Chemo and radiation is harder on the body then anything else. Chemo is poison. I personally feel it kills more people then it cures. And no, I was not aware of the side effects of the herbs.

3.
No one has ever forced anyone to walk a labyrinth. They are used for quiet reflection today and spiritual insight. They are being built in Canada in hospitals, parks, mental institutions etc. because they are shown to help people.

4.
I found the labyrinth very helpful when dealing with my divorce, depression, anxiety and PTSD.
I wouldn't recommend it or write about it if I didn't feel it helped others.





1.The pharmaceutical industry makes in some cases problems. Ethno - biologists asking for medical effects of plants and its medication traditional elders and other healers. The scientists take this plant, they do their research - and if this plant is effective for some deseases they apply for a patent, this plant for these deseases. In this case it is forbidden to use this plant in another way, this means, a healer is not more allowed to use this plant, what he used a long time, for these deseases the pharmacy got its patent. I don´t know if this "rule" has changed. The pharmacy got a big lobby and their way of work is not in any cases ethically.

2. There are a lot of different forms of cancer, (breast - cancer got 8 different forms or more) to be treated in different ways, some with chemo, some with radiation, and there are other therapies. Chemo and radiation did not help in any forms of cancer.
Some forms of cancer are changing its "life", some becoming more aggressiv.
Some formes can be healed, other not.
The problem of chemo is, it kills all the cells, just not the cancer - cells, chemo cannot differ between good and bad cells, so the results are critical for the patients. Does chemo heals? The opinions are different, even some patients who used chemo got their ambivalent relationship to this chemical treatment.
The pharmacy is looking for other ways, Taxus baccata was one plant they did their researches on its (poisened) contents, but I don´t know the results.
There are Off - preparation which is normaly not used for this special desease, but they make their studies to find out if it helps or not.

3 & 4. The experience of one or few people does not mean this can help a lot of others. In some cases it could help, but it can forces other patients in a very critcal situation, it can trigger, develop fear, push in an uncontrollable situation. For these patient there is no quite reflection.
Also a Labyrinth can be a place a patient can hide away to be "invisible" for others.
I also can imgagine that this Labyrinth can be used as a part of therapy (like an expo or confrontation) the patient should learn to stand by a harming situation and look for skills to use. This part in a therapy is hard.

What helps, what not, depends on the patient and in special cases, if he is stabilized for it, it depends the way of treating he had to make his next step.
The Labyrinth is ok for some, for other people it is the tower, the bridge, the garden, the field, ... .
Title: Re: Cherry Valley Farm & Retreat (split from Pete Bernard thread)
Post by: Defend the Sacred on August 21, 2014, 05:49:24 pm
I'm going to start by apologizing for anything I said that was upsetting. It was never my intent to come in here and create anger. I came in to support a friend only. Her experience is very real. My spiritual beliefs are my own and I'm allowed to have them. I never claimed to follow traditional native teachings even if I have the utmost respect for them. I have a mix of Scottish, Irish and some of my relations are Cree who live in Manitoba and Ontario.

I've read a lot about Rene Caisse. She was from Bracebridge, Ontario. There are statues to her in that town. Rene was a nurse who had a patient in 1922. This woman told Rene she had breast cancer and was cured by the Ojibwa. She wrote down the recipe she was given to Rene. The formula is the same one I gave the owner of Cherry Valley. It is straight from the lips of an Ontario Ojibwa elder and I think that is obvious when you read that post carefully. I didn't write what was on the website, I simply e-mailed her the formula. And no, I'm not going to give his name after I saw my personal information bandied about in here. I never asked for that when I came in here. I will know better than to come on a chat site on the internet under my own name again. My fault. Lesson learned. For 50 years Rene fought the cancer industry who wanted to shut her down because she was actually curing people with herbs. She cured thousands of patients across Canada and the USA even JFK's personal physician. He wanted to go public with the formula but was threatened with jail if he did. Cancer was the #1 profit making disease in the industry...still is. I gave the formula to a friend of mine who was a doctor with stage 4 ovarian cancer. Her cancer marker went from 487 to 214 on the Essiac formula. When her oncologist asked her what she was doing, she told him. He approved. This was before she started conventional treatment. She is alive and well today and feels it really helped her. It has a long history of documented success. Chemo and radiation is harder on the body then anything else. Chemo is poison. I personally feel it kills more people then it cures. And no, I was not aware of the side effects of the herbs.

The facts I wrote on the labyrinth are all documented and can be found on different websites. Google Druid labyrinth, Native American labyrinth, Christian labyrinth, Roman labyrinth, Greek labyrinth and it all comes up. I know that chakras and kundalini energy have nothing to do with NDN or druid beliefs. That is one of the interpretations of the labyrinth design from Eastern religions. Thank you for informing me of the dangers. For the Christians, the 7 circuits are based on the 7 sacraments. No one has ever forced anyone to walk a labyrinth. They are used for quiet reflection today and spiritual insight. They are being built in Canada in hospitals, parks, mental institutions etc. because they are shown to help people. I found the labyrinth very helpful when dealing with my divorce, depression, anxiety and PTSD. I wouldn't recommend it or write about it if I didn't feel it helped others. I'm a retired teacher and I write for a local newspaper. I get assignments from the editor and I cover the story. I did the labyrinth and portal tours for free. If the owner wants to collect a donation to support her farm, that is up to her. She is an elderly lady and relies on the income to support herself. She is by no means rich, quite the opposite, and her farm is in desperate need of repair. I was never employed by her.

As for Nora's bio...it is what it is. That is her story. I'm not questioning it. I had my own NDE in 1999 and surprisingly saw Jesus. I wasn't a church goer at the time. I'm still not. I still feel my closest connection to God in nature. I said it was not for ME to question her. I believe her. I only wanted to support her. I think it is important to talk to the person who is being discussed. I would be required to do that for any news story.

I won't bother you again and I would really appreciate it if you stopped posting about me. I taught and I write local news articles. I'm a private person who is really quite shy and reserved. I'm not making a living on spiritual beliefs. I did a favor for the owner of Cherry ValIey about 4 times last summer. I no longer do that. I apologize again for losing my cool yesterday. Take Care.

Quoting in case Cate deletes it.
Title: Re: Cherry Valley Farm, Retreat, & Cate Crow's plagiarized fake cancer cures
Post by: Defend the Sacred on August 25, 2014, 09:07:08 pm
Well, after saying she wouldn't, Cate not only deleted her posts, she found a way to delete the entire thread. She is now banned, and the ability for non-admins to delete threads has been removed. We keep backups, so this is the state of the thread when it was backed up. I have the other deleted posts cached, and will post them shortly.
Title: Re: Cherry Valley Farm, Retreat, & Cate Crow's plagiarized fake cancer cures
Post by: Defend the Sacred on August 25, 2014, 09:35:40 pm
Some of the posts from page 2 were lost. Here is the deleted text we had cached. We also have screencaps of pages 1 and 3. Others of you probably got the missing p.2 posts in your email if you're following the thread. Feel free to add anything that got lost. 

__________________________________________________________________________________

Posted
« on: 21 August 2014 »

Quote from: catecrow on 21 August 2014 at 17:48:36
Quote
  The owner herself is 100% Irish and proud of it...has never claimed to be native or a medicine woman and I highly doubt she ever will. She had a traditional native ceremony performed by a full blooded native at the farm. I think it was to honor the earth's spirits or something. I can't remember exactly what is was. Her great, great grandfather, who came from Cherry Valley in Ireland purchased the land in 1844. Before that it was Ojibwa territory. She honors the spiritual beliefs of everyone. I didn't teach "druid labyrinths". I taught about the history of the labyrinth. I do include The Tor in Glastonbury, England as such a labyrinth. That theory was proposed in 1968 by British scholar Geoffrey Russell. Another scholar, Geoffrey Ashes spent ten years investigating the Tor and wrote a book concluding it was a labyrinth in 1979. I share their theories, that is all. It is totally fine if you disagree with that theory because there are others out there. There is also a druid connection to the Cathedral at Chartres in France.

Again, Christian and Greek labyrinths have nothing to do with the druids, or with Ireland. Your friend may have Irish blood, but I see nothing culturally Irish on the site. It's all newage misappropriations.

Geoffrey Ashe (not "Ashes") is an Englishman. He lived at Glastonbury (which is in England, not in any Celtic Nation) for a number of years, but he is more into Arthurian legend, Christian Hermetic/Ceremonial magic, and new age thought than anything Irish. You are misrepresenting his work.  In his own words, "Weathering, trampling, and shiftings of soil and strata have made parts of this hypothetical scheme a matter of conjecture." The "hypothetical scheme" being whether or not the paths up the hill could have ever connected in anything resembling a labyrinth. Mutual friends say Ashe was kind to them when they visited him at Glastonbury, but he's not known to be an expert in anything having to do with the draoithe.  I think he knows enough in his area of expertise (Arthurian literature) that he wouldn't claim what he's doing is in any way Irish.

You've never provided any sources, just repeated the same claims, Cate. Please stop spreading misinformation. I'm sorry but there aren't reliable sources for your claims about druids, and even if there were, it doesn't change the fact that a lot of newage and culturally insensitive stuff is going on at your friends' farm.

--------------------------------------

Posted by: Smart Mule
« on: 21 August 2014 at 18:35:00 »

Quote from: catecrow on 21 August 2014 at 17:48:36
Quote
    Thank you and no I wasn't going to delete a heartfelt apology:

    If you want to research, I will give you this much information....Regarding the Essiac formula...A full blooded Ojibwa (Sault St. Marie) Chippewa who is a doctor/professor of Native American Studies at a western university, informed that the tribal medicine society, Midewiwin, is extremely secretive. He suggested that the formula Rene Caisse learned of was probably a specific remedy for a particular patient. The Midewiwin use herbs that are indigenous to their region and call upon their spirit guides and intuition as well as their training and experience to assist them in deciding which particular plants would benefit their "patients".


I don't know of any Midewiwin that use the term 'spirit guides'.  Actually, I don't know of any traditional people who use that term.  Who is this mysterious professor?

Quote
     Caisse herself was secretive about the formula. It was recorded that Nurse Caisse experienced a recovery rate of over 80% (that was recorded from her clinic in Bracebridge, Ontario).


So it was her word, that a formula used by a Midewiwin on one specific patient, cured 80% of her patients?

Quote
     The Ojibwa man you are looking for is a retired naturopathic doctor in California. He is elderly and this information was given years ago. His father and his grandfathers on his father's side were all Ojibwa Medicine men from Ontario. He explained that he decided to practice in a white man's environment in LA but that he never lost the meaning of belonging to the Midewiwin. He said he was saddened by all the commercial nonsense and fighting over the rights of this formula and stated, "this formula is a gift from the Ojibwa to all mankind, all races, anyone! Why can 't everyone just say thank you and accept it?" This is from him...not Cherry Valley and not me.


THE HERBS ARE NOT ALL NATIVE.

Quote
     There are no patients at Cherry Valley. No medicine is taught at Cherry Valley. It is unfortunate that the owner called it the Ojibway Cancer Cure. The owner herself is 100% Irish and proud of it...has never claimed to be native or a medicine woman and I highly doubt she ever will.


She best caution herself, she's opened herself up to a wrongful death suit.

Quote
     She had a traditional native ceremony performed by a full blooded native at the farm. I think it was to honor the earth's spirits or something. I can't remember exactly what is was. Her great, great grandfather, who came from Cherry Valley in Ireland purchased the land in 1844. Before that it was Ojibwa territory. She honors the spiritual beliefs of everyone.


Honoring, in my opinion, is respecting, not appropriating.  There is no respect in appropriation.

Quote
     I didn't teach "druid labyrinths". I taught about the history of the labyrinth. I do include The Tor in Glastonbury, England as such a labyrinth. That theory was proposed in 1968 by British scholar Geoffrey Russell. Another scholar, Geoffrey Ashes spent ten years investigating the Tor and wrote a book concluding it was a labyrinth in 1979. I share their theories, that is all. It is totally fine if you disagree with that theory because there are others out there. There is also a druid connection to the Cathedral at Chartres in France.


There are the remains of iron age metal works there.  Do you think the druids would use this as a sacred place if there were weapons being made there?

Quote
     Anyway, here is the direct quote of the good Ojibwa doctor that I gave the owner of Cherry Valley:

    "This formula is a gift from the Ojibwa to all mankind, all races, anyone. Just say thank you and accept it".
    "I use a big handful of chopped dried Burdock Root (my hands are kind of big, this weighs about 3 ounces).
    Then I use a big handful of chopped dried Sheep Sorrel herb (this weighs about one ounce".
    Then I use big pieces of dried Turkey Rhubarb Root amounting to about 1/2 ounce total (I use big pieces so the
    laxative effect is not boiled away).
    Than I add a wad of dried Slippery Elm (inner bark) about the size of a golf ball (about 1/18 of an ounce).
    This makes a one week's supply, so boil it for about 15 minutes in one gallon of water (only use distilled, spring
    or thoroughly filtered water) then let it soak overnight in the gallon of water, strain it and store it in a one gallon
    apple juice jug in your fridge.
    Drink one 8 ounce cup twice a day (or more if you feel like it). Don't dilute it like some kind of wimpy white
    man health food store thinking. It tastes kind of thick and slippery. If you do heat it do it on a burner in a small
    sauce pan. Don't ever heat in a microwave or it will be useless.
    - By the way, when you drink it pray that your body will get back in harmony with the Great Spirit"
     
    "Sometimes when tumors are very stubborn you have to use Blood Root along with the formula.
    If you are using Blood Root tincture with the Ojibwa tea follow these instructions carefully:
    On the average 5 - 10 drops (NOT DROPPERS) 2 times a day with your 'tea'.
    - However, your tolerable threshold must be found, To accomplish this, start with 5 drops.
    Increase dosage by 1 drop per day until nausea occurs. If nausea occurs before you reach 10 drops, then back
    down 1 drop and hold that dosage. DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES EXCEED 10 DROPS.
    If nausea occurs with the initial 5 drops, then start with 1 drop and work your way to your tolerable doseage.
    If all you can tolerate is 1 - 2 drops try increasing dosage by 1 drop after a week's use.
    If you still can only handle 1 -2 drops then that is all you need & it’s doing as well as 10 drops for someone else.
    Blood Root is an extremely powerful substance.
    There are some (usually those who have a financial interest in chemotherapy, radiation or pharmacuetical companies)
    that say never take Blood Root internally, it's way too dangerous (and chemo and radiation isn't?).
    However, we have observed no negative reactions in 100% of the patients we have treated with Blood Root
    tincture when taken in these tolerable doses".


Burdock root is not native to the americas.  Sheep sorrel is not native to the americas.  Turkey rhubarb is not native to the americas.

-----------------------------------------------------


Posted
« on:  21 August 2014  at 18:37:56 »

Quote from: catecrow on  21 August 2014  at 17:48:36
Quote
   The owner herself...has never claimed to be native or a medicine woman

Cate, we can read her own words: "[Nora] taught me how to connect with and work with my higher self a medicine woman Nahani who is the one who has been doing the accurate predictions and amazing healings through me." signed at the bottom of the page by Nancy Huber (nee Fletcher).

Ms. Huber also claims to be a "Munay-Ki Rite Gifter" - Munay-Ki is a pretendian thing.

More on Nancy Fletcher Huber in the Nora Anderson thread: http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=3612.msg38205#msg38205

Are you trying to gaslight us, Cate? It sure seems that way.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------


Posted by: Smart Mule
« on:  21 August 2014  at 18:48:10 »

You're a plagiarist. Essiac: A Native Herbal Cancer Remedy By Cynthia B. Olsen, Jim Chan - Chapter 8 The Possible Missing Ingredient.  Google books has the chapter available online.  Also starting at page 5 (this is where she lifted the bit about the full blooded nameless professor)  http://books.google.com/books/about/Essiac.html?id=XdaoKpyNqjwC

-----------------------------------------------------


Posted by: catecrow
« on:  21 August 2014 at 18:48:26 »

Okay, I just responded to all this and I don't know where it went.

I'll do more research on that part of the labyrinth. Fair enough.

Any complaint you have with the owner of Cherry Valley, you will have to take up with her and not me. It's not my farm and I don't give talks on the labyrinth there anymore.

Good night

----------------------------------------------


Posted
« on:  21 August 2014  at 18:55:30 »

Cate! You lifted that word for word from someone's book! Holy crap that is immoral!

http://books.google.com/books?id=XdaoKpyNqjwC&pg=PA99&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=4#v=onepage&q&f=false

Making screencaps now.

The notice on EVERY PAGE has a copyright notice. Cate, this is horrific. Not only did you lie about this formula "coming direct from the lips of an Ojibwe Elder," which we already knew was a lie, you plagiarized someone's work and represented it as your own story. This is appalling.

You wrote it as if YOU heard it in person, not in a forwarded email. You have been profoundly dishonest.
Title: Re: Cherry Valley Farm, Retreat, & Cate Crow's plagiarized fake cancer cures
Post by: Defend the Sacred on August 25, 2014, 09:53:40 pm
Page 3 text. Also have screencaps on file.

Smart Mule
Re: Cherry Valley Farm & Retreat (split from Pete Bernard thread)
« Reply #30 on: 21 August 2014 at 19:08:51 »

Quote from: catecrow on 21 August 2014 at 19:03:02
Quote
     I did not know that. That was an e-mail I received word for word from a friend who told me it came straight from the lips of an Ojibwa elder  and filled me in on all his info and I passed it on to the owner of Cherry Valley. If I knew it came from a book I would have quoted the source.

At this point I don't see any reason to believe you.  Not about Nora, not about anything.  You've based your labyrinth talks on shoddy inaccurate googled information (that others now believe is true).  You've passed on plagiarized information without vetting it, opening your friend up to an additional lawsuit.

And people think we're mean because we try and warn people about how damaging and dangerous the whole newage movement is  :o
--------------------------------------------

Smart Mule
Re: Cherry Valley Farm & Retreat (split from Pete Bernard thread)
« Reply #31 on: 21 August 2014 at 19:17:33 »

https://web.archive.org/web/20140417184759/http://www.newspapers-online.com/innisfil/?p=7976  Additional plagiarism

----------------------------------------------

Smart Mule
Re: Cherry Valley Farm, Retreat, & Kate Crow's plagiarized fake cancer cures
« Reply #32 on: 21 August 2014 at 19:30:45 »

and....she owns the book http://community.indigo.ca/posts/The-Marriage-of-Folklore-and-Science-in-Health/group-436/current.html

"Essiac - A Native Herbal Cancer Remedy
Posted by Cate Crow, 6 years ago

"Highly recommended book for anyone with cancer or who knows someone going through it. The Ojibwa natives gave this herbal recipe to Canadian nurse Rene Caisse in 1922. Thousands claim (even to this day) that this recipe made from 4 safe, readily available, non-toxic herbs boiled into a tea and taken daily eased their suffering or ended it entirely and restored them to full health when all else had failed. For over 55 years Rene fought the medical establishment and the cancer industry who wanted to outlaw the herbal formula that was actually curing people. "A Native Herbal Cancer Remedy" book even includes the missing herbal ingredient from the original Essiac formula which was only added for very stubborn cancer tumours. It also includes the full Essiac recipe with step by step instructions on how to make it, use it and store it. Dr. Frederick Banting, who discovered insulin, found this formula equally helpful for diabetic sufferers as well. A remarkable story and "tea"."

----------------------------------

catecrow
Re: Cherry Valley Farm, Retreat, & Kate Crow's plagiarized fake cancer cures
« Reply #33 on: 21 August 2014 at 19:34:50 »

Not plagarism if the source is quoted. I never wrote it as if it was told to me personally. That was your interpretation. I stand by Essiac and I stand by the Chaga Mushroom.

----------------------------------------

Smart Mule
Re: Cherry Valley Farm, Retreat, & Kate Crow's plagiarized fake cancer cures
« Reply #34 on: 21 August 2014 at 19:39:09 »

Quote from: catecrow on 21 August 2014 at 19:34:50
Quote
    Not plagarism if the source is quoted. I never wrote it as if it was told to me personally. That was your interpretation. I stand by Essiac and I stand by the Chaga Mushroom.

You don't source your information.  In a different post you stated the information was sent to you via email

Quote from: catecrow on 21 August 2014 at 19:03:02
Quote
    That was an e-mail I received word for word from a friend who told me it came straight from the lips of an Ojibwa elder  and filled me in on all his info and I passed it on to the owner of Cherry Valley.

-----------------------------------

catecrow
Re: Cherry Valley Farm, Retreat, & Kate Crow's plagiarized fake cancer cures
« Reply #35 on: 21 August 2014 at 19:40:50 »

"and....she owns the book http://community.indigo.ca/posts/The-Marriage-of-Folklore-and-Science-in-Health/group-436/current.html"

So what??? That was a review I wrote on that book after I read it. The quote is by me, not the book.

Now this is just getting plain silly. Now you are going into Indigo's book sites and looking at reviews I wrote on books I've read????

---------------------------------------------------

Re: Cherry Valley Farm, Retreat, & Kate Crow's plagiarized fake cancer cures
« Reply #36 on: 21 August 2014 at 19:42:43 »

What the review proves is that you had read the book and knew the actual source, yet continued to misrepresent it, both as "straight from the lips of an Ojibwe Elder" as well as it being your own account of these fictional events. You are a plagiarist and a liar.

You are insulting the intelligence of all the people on this forum. That may fly with the nuagers. It doesn't fly here.

---------------------------------------------------


Smart Mule
Re: Cherry Valley Farm, Retreat, & Kate Crow's plagiarized fake cancer cures
« Reply #37 on: 21 August 2014 at 19:43:01 »

Cate, you said -
Quote from: catecrow on 21 August 2014 at 19:03:02
Quote
    That was an e-mail I received word for word from a friend who told me it came straight from the lips of an Ojibwa elder  and filled me in on all his info and I passed it on to the owner of Cherry Valley.

If you owned the book then how could you not possible realize that the information your friend sent to you was not out of the book verbatim?  Why didn't you source the book on the Cherry Valley site or in your article when what you wrote was taken directly from it?


Pages: 1 2 [3]
« previous next »

----------------------------------------

Cate's scheduled "Ojibway Cancer Cures" workshop has been removed from the public Cherry Valley site. But given the level of deception she's shown, I would not assume this means it's been cancelled. We've often seen with frauds that they just advertise this stuff via their mailing lists. Here's the screen cap:
Title: Re: Cherry Valley Farm, Retreat, & Cate Crow's plagiarized fake cancer cures
Post by: Defend the Sacred on August 25, 2014, 09:59:22 pm
More screencaps of the text Cate plagiarized this is only some of it. She also plagiarized sections from Chapter 5. The book is available at the links up-thread, but also caching it here for the record.
Title: Re: Cherry Valley Farm, Retreat, & Cate Crow's plagiarized fake cancer cures
Post by: Defend the Sacred on August 25, 2014, 10:03:43 pm
And...
Title: Re: Cherry Valley Farm, Retreat, & Cate Crow's plagiarized fake cancer cures
Post by: Defend the Sacred on August 27, 2014, 11:34:10 pm
As the owner of Cherry Valley is leading pretendian "Munay-Ki" workshops, here is our thread on that scam: http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1622.0

And since it was lost in the deleted posts, the URL of the Cherry Valley homepage: http://www.cherryvalleyretreat.com/

On Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Cherry-Valley-Retreat/179855298696630?sk=timeline

As seen on their workshop page, their main page, and their listing at this newage site http://bodysoulspiritexpo.com/members/index.php3?id=152   they are also doing pretendian "Animal Totems" workshops:

http://www.cherryvalleyretreat.com/020~Workshops/
Title: Re: Cherry Valley Farm, Retreat, & Cate Crow's plagiarized fake cancer cures
Post by: Smart Mule on August 28, 2014, 12:19:16 am
https://www.facebook.com/events/735873986469015/ (https://www.facebook.com/events/735873986469015/)

We Are All As One….
Enhancing Our Life Experience!
Developing a deeper connection to your self, to each other and to all living things.
In this day of technology with our need to rush through life we often miss so much that the experience of living has to offer. Our fast paced life style leaves us feeling empty, hollow and disconnected. We feel lost and unsure of ourselves more than ever.
In this session we will slow things down and stop to evaluate some of the amazing things we are missing in our hurry to get through to the next day. There is so much disconnect on our planet and between beings that we no longer feel apart of this vast and glorious place we call earth.
Our spirits have come here to learn and explore through learning. Life is not a rush to the finish line. Our souls have elected to walk as humans with grace and love, to enjoy the beauty and the glory of all that exists in this world. We are meant to connect with one another in order to share in nature and in love.
During this reawaking we will delve into a deeper understanding of how to connect to our inner beings. We will work to experience the love of the self first and then move to the understanding of how to love one another in acceptance and understanding.
Once we have opened our hearts to this, we will move to exploring and understanding our relationship with nature and we will rediscover the beauty of understanding that we are all as one.
Topics Include:
Meditation and Creative Visualization
How to hear and understand your inner voice
Energy Clearing
Energetic Connections and their effects
Respecting the self, nature and all living beings
Connecting to nature (plants, earth, sky)
The cycle of life
Where love and ego fit
Native belief and honouring concepts
Water and its energetic power and influence
Conscious intention – the secret of life
And much more!
This event takes place at Cherry Valley Retreat (the farm) Saturday August 16th 9:00am to 4:30pm #7168 10th Line Essa L0L 2N0 The number there is 705-458-9528
$175.00 +hst= $197.
A lunch will be served.
To register call Nancy 905-895-2871 or write nhuber@rogers.com
Title: Re: Cherry Valley Farm, Retreat, & Cate Crow's plagiarized fake cancer cures
Post by: Smart Mule on August 28, 2014, 12:21:08 am
https://www.facebook.com/events/245344998922796/ (https://www.facebook.com/events/245344998922796/)

Saturday July 26th 1 :00pm to 3:00pm at Cherry Valley Retreat # 7168 10th Line Essa L0L 2N0 the phone number there is 705-458-9528
This Course is intended to map out a Transformation of your own Personal Life Choices, of where you are right now in your Life, and where you are in connectivity to the Universal Infinite ALL.
The Medicine Wheel guides us to our Connection to SEE all Aspects of our Life. So that we can live in a way that is healthy and brings healing to Mother Earth and all of our Family and her Kingdoms!
These Teachings will enhance the 8 Directions within Yourself, so that you will go beyond the basic understandings of the steps you have taken in Life – Why you keep following the same cycles, patterns. Why you unconsciously keep making the same choices that disconnect you from that Inner Seedling Of LIGHT that is of Infinite LOVE within.
We are going to access those Patterns or Choices, We are to going RE-CREATE a new Pattern of your own choice through a Vibrational Shift in your Consciousness.
The Medicine Wheel enables us to Transform and Align to new Movements and Vibrations of Consciousness and Awareness that AWAKENS our True Path of Enlightenment.
It is through understanding of the True Self that Transformation can take place within your OWN Consciousness.
As we let go of those negative Shadow Dancers who bring us those Same Fear based Patterns, through the Medicine Wheel, we step into ONENESS OF ALL KNOWING, and this is MY TEACHINGS to YOU!
This Course is ongoing and will move you, elevate you, and shift your AWARENESS of WHO YOU ARE. $20.
If you need directions they are on the Contact page of www.cherryvalleyretreat.com
Title: Re: Cherry Valley Farm, Retreat, & Cate Crow's plagiarized fake cancer cures
Post by: Defend the Sacred on August 28, 2014, 12:26:16 am
https://www.facebook.com/groups/172978709397431/permalink/599436476751650/
______________________________________________________________________

Nancy Huber
8 March 2013

These Rites were only given to the most talented Shaman in each generation for millenniums. Now is the time of the eagle / condor prophecy when these Rites may be given to ordinary people like you and me. The eagle and condor have now been seen flying in the same skies.

Many of you have received a calling from Spirit, and long to make a difference in this world. You will know if you resonate with these.

The first four, the Foundation Rites are given and with fire ceremony are encouraged to grow and be assimilated. Once this happens, any where from one to eight months or more, you will be ready to receive the Transformational Rites. The first four Rites are the Healers Rite, Bands of Power, the Harmony Rite and the Seers Rite. The next 5 are Day Keepers Rite, Wisdom Keepers Rite, Earth Keepers Rite, Star Keepers Rite and the Creator Rite. The Transformational Rites change your DNA, how you age and heal, and prepare you for the times to come. You become homo luminous. We are the ones we’ve been waiting for. Once you have all nine you may gift them to others and register your name on www.munay-ki.org so people in your area can find you.

“The new caretakers of the Earth will come from the West, and those who have made the greatest impact on Mother Earth now have the moral responsibility to remake their relationship with Her, after remaking themselves.” Don Antonia Morales

The eight and ninth Rite has only been given by Spirit until 1996, when they became able to be transmitted human to human.

In order to honour the Shamans who gave us these Rites, we do not charge, only ask for Donations.
At 304 Court St Newmarket L3Y 3S5 1-4pm
To register 905-895-2871 Space is limited.
www.cherryvalleyretreat.com
__________________________________________________________

bolding added.

And this... “The new caretakers of the Earth will come from the West, and those who have made the greatest impact on Mother Earth now have the moral responsibility to remake their relationship with Her, after remaking themselves.” Is profoundly offensive. It's the usual fake Rainbow Prophecy, the "all the white people will be Indians / and all the Indians will be ghosts" thing, but now in South American drag. Hideous, racist and genocidal. Anyone who perpetuates this should be ashamed of themselves.
Title: Re: Cherry Valley Farm, Retreat, & Cate Crow's plagiarized fake cancer cures
Post by: ian bear on November 24, 2014, 04:27:17 pm
I sent email to my friend Cate when her cousin dying of cancer in 2002 she did not know source then. I did not include source why would I in personal email. she sent that email to Nancy of cherry valley.  I sent her the name of book years ago when another family was diagnose with cancer. You all jump on her so fast she screw up with what she is trying to tell you. she apologize and you block it. she did not say so what??? she said what??? you add the word so. Cate include the source in her native cancer tea articel. she gave source to Nancy of cherry valley. she told me she never say it was told directly to her in here or anywhere.  she said it came straight from the lips of Ojibway medicine man and it did. I said that to her. Cate ask Nancy to remove it from her site but I say put it back up. it was not workshop just info posted. how can Cate defend herself when you block her. she delete everything after block when she could not reply then you ban her. Essiac Black Root Medicine, four directions medicine is not fraud. (posted link in Essiac) AIM Essiac: Natures Cancer Cure
I know Cate for 14 years. she is not liar and plagarier she helps animals and was teacher of native history. her Cree brother is well known native artist in Manitoba.
burdock sheep sorrel and rhubarb were in Ontario in 1800s
 
 
 
 
Wild Edible Plants of Ontario
A foraging guide covering wild edible plants of Ontario (Canada) including the Toronto, Ottawa and Hamilton areas and the Georgian Bay Islands, Pukaskwa, Bruce Peninsula, Point Pelee, and St. Lawrence Islands National Parks.
View on northernbushcraft.com

 
Cate says hi and sorry for not writing source in here
Title: Re: Cherry Valley Farm, Retreat, & Cate Crow's plagiarized fake cancer cures
Post by: Smart Mule on November 25, 2014, 01:52:35 am
Hello ian bear friend of Cate,

If you read the article you provided, you would have noticed that it states that Rene Caisse altered the original recipe that was given to her by one of her patients, not directly by a medicine person.  So her saying that the recipe "came straight from the lips of Ojibway medicine man" is not true.

Traditional medicine is certainly not fraud however essiac is not traditional medicine.  Rene Caisse stated so herself.

I'm glad you are a good friend to Cate.  I would ask you to please try and understand that though she may have told you she was completely honest the fact remains she wasn't.

Title: Re: Cherry Valley Farm, Retreat, & Cate Crow's plagiarized fake cancer cures
Post by: ian bear on November 25, 2014, 02:50:26 am
Hello

Cate meant well. she has GAD/PTSD/CFS. her memory is bad and things get jumbled but loyal good friend.

I copy this because I do not write good. I am 74 and have parkinson disease.

Don Cardinal, a Cree medicine man in Canada, believed the herbal blend of sheep sorrel, burdock root, slippery elm bark, and rhubarb root were keys to the treatment of cancer. Don Cardinal's Cree name was Kiweeten, or Healer of the North. Of the original Ojibwa brew, Cardinal said, “It is important that the herbs are mixed in the correct proportions. When I pick the herbs myself, I always say a prayer and make my offering of tobacco to say thank you to the Creator for giving us these herbs. Even when I do not gather the herbs myself, when I buy them, in case those who gathered them did not offer thanks, I always say a prayer and make an offering before I use them.”


A Maryland woman, Suzanne
Bower, then 41, developed breast
cancer in January 1992. She
learned about Essiac through her
work with Native American crafts
and consulted the Cree healer
Don Cardinal.
“I had a full mastectomy. One and-a-half
years later, I found a
nodule on the same side. I was
told again I had the same form
of breast cancer,” Bower said. “I
had the nodule removed and was
given seven weeks of radiation
therapy and four treatments of
chemotherapy.”
“I felt very sick. I could hardly
exist for a whole week. I was
bedridden. I had mouth sores,
vomiting, loss of hair. I had to
take needles in the stomach to
regulate my blood cells. I was
dehydrated, had constipation, and
had a hard time eating. I could
only take liquids.” Bower said.
“I spoke to Don Cardinal before
I went on chemo. He said I did
not have to go on chemo, just
take Essiac tea in large doses.
He told me he helped a woman
with ovarian cancer where the
tumour could be seen pushing
through the skin. He saw the
tumour reduced with the herbal
tea. I decided to do conventional
and traditional at the same time,”
Bower said.
“I sensed Essiac tea strengthened
me. I could feel my blood
had more power, more oxygen.
I wasn’t weak. My digestion was
better. I felt strong. I felt positive,
it helped with my constipation.
During this time, I had a car accident
and suffered broken ribs.
Essiac shortened the healing
time,” Bower said.
“I had no side-effects from the
herbal tea at all, and I’m very
sensitive to medicine. It was very
inexpensive for what it can do
for you.
The Essiac formulation has
actually been found to be helpful
for arthritis, diabetes, multiple sclerosis,
hypoglycaemia, chronic fatigue
syndrome, prostate and urinary
problems, and ulcers, as well as
malignancies, various forms of
cancer, and other health problems.

Rene Caisse substitute turkey rhubarb (less bitter) for ordinary rhubarb but both good


In a letter written to the Canadian minister of Health, Dr. E. Bruce Hendrick, M.D., chief of the Division of Neurosurgery at the Hospital for Sick Children in Toronto, stated: “There are some 10 patients with surgically treated tumors of the central nervous system who have escaped from conventional methods of therapy including both radiation and chemotherapy.
The patients who were started on Essiac, in 8 out of the 10 patients, there has been a significant improvement in their neurological state.
I am impressed with the effectiveness of the treatment and the lack of side effects.
I feel that Essiac should be given serious consideration.”

In july 1991, the Canadian Journal of Herbalism published
an article, "Old Ontario Remedies,"
about Essiac. The article gives specific information on the ingredients
of Essiac and includes descriptions of the herbs; Sheep's sorrel, burdock, slippery elm and rhubarb.
   The article also warns of high oxalic acid content in two of the herbs making the remedy unsafe for persons with kidney ailments or arthritic conditions.
   This article concludes: "Essiac is not a hoax or fraud.
To hear experiences described by the patients themselves cannot help
but convince observers that dramatic and beneficial changes definitely
took place in many who received the remedy.
Although the focus on Essiac has been as a cancer treatment,
it alleviated and sometimes cured many chronic and degenerative
conditions because it cleanses the blood as well as the liver and
strengthens the immune system."
Ontario Herbalists Association: July 1991 issue, Vol xii, No iii of the
Canadian Journal of Herbalism.

I say my peace and wish you well
Title: Re: Cherry Valley Farm, Retreat, & Cate Crow's plagiarized fake cancer cures
Post by: Defend the Sacred on April 05, 2015, 10:00:30 pm
Looking at the stuff Ian posted above, I'm seriously considering deleting that, too, for the safety of readers. Essiac not only does not help with hypoglycemia, Burdock will further lower blood sugar. Thankfully, burdock is not very strong (it's weak enough to be eaten as a food in its fresh form). But for someone with severe hypoglycemia, they could go into a very dangerous state - a low blood sugar coma - from consuming high doses of the dried or concentrated root. And as stated in the essiac thread http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=3226.0  other ingredients in essiac can also aggravate arthritis. I've never heard of it actually improving any of the conditions in that laundry list.

While most of the herbs in it, if used properly, can help certain conditions, it is criminal that this is being pushed onto desperate people as a cure-all.
Title: Re: Cherry Valley Farm, Retreat, & Cate Crow's plagiarized fake cancer cures
Post by: Autumn on April 05, 2015, 11:52:42 pm
Quote
Looking at the stuff Ian posted above, I'm seriously considering deleting that, too, for the safety of readers. Essiac not only does not help with hypoglycemia, Burdock will further lower blood sugar. Thankfully, burdock is not very strong (it's weak enough to be eaten as a food in its fresh form). But for someone with severe hypoglycemia, they could go into a very dangerous state - a low blood sugar coma - from consuming high doses of the dried or concentrated root. And as stated in the essiac thread http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=3226.0  other ingredients in essiac can also aggravate arthritis. I've never heard of it actually improving any of the conditions in that laundry list.

While most of the herbs in it, if used properly, can help certain conditions, it is criminal that this is being pushed onto desperate people as a cure-all.

I was trying to find the source of the article Ian Bear posted regarding Suzanne Bower and this thread on the Complaints Board with the title "NAFPS" came up.  It makes for interesting reading and we are called every name in the book.  It shows the same information that Ian Bear posted above.  There are three pages to the "Complaints" and most of the Essaic information is on the second page.

Most of the people posting on the thread are Doug A., Cate Crow, and Reality Check4u (also Cate Crow under another alias).  Doug A. was outraged that we started a thread on Two Feathers who had posted an article about Essaic on his website under the AIM logo.  The thread is here and I started it:
 
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=4515.msg39152#msg39152

IMO, if you delete Ian's post and then just refer them to the Complaint Site, they will find everything there:

http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/nafps-california-c235765.html
Title: Re: Cherry Valley Farm, Retreat, & Cate Crow's plagiarized fake cancer cures
Post by: penelope on May 07, 2015, 03:05:13 am
Hi! I am the widow of the late Don Cardinal (my real name is Allison). He passed away in May 2008. He was Woods Cree from the Sucker Creek First Nation in Northern Alberta (on the southwest tip of Lesser Slave Lake). His Cree name was Kiwetinohk Enipawit or "Standing North Wind." In the late 1960s, Don and his (better known) brother, Harold Cardinal, were Vice President and President of the Indian Association of Alberta and worked with the Alberta Indian Chiefs to produce the 1970 "Citizens Plus" (aka The White Paper) that was their response to Canadian Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau's attempts to abolish the Indian Act with his government's controversial "White Paper."

My husband did live on Long Island, New York, for a number of years and ran a sweat lodge at Garvies Point preserve (Glen Cove, Long Island). Thus, it is very possible he met Suzanne Bower. I did not meet Don until 1994, so have no knowledge of whether or not the meeting with Suzanne actually occurred. Don was traditionally trained by his grandfather and great Grandfather in Northern Alberta, but also travelled extensively throughout Canada and the US - including Ontario - and worked in Sault Ste. Marie, Elliot Lake, Thunder Bay, Kenora, Fort Frances and White Dog. He and I moved back up to Canada in 2000 and lived in Seven Sisters Falls, Manitoba, until his death.

Don used herbal medicines in his work. I do know that he used the four herbs in the mixture called "Essiac" and then added additional herbs to them to create a mixture he used to treat cancer and use as a body cleanser. I am not sure where he first heard of Essiac, but he did believe that if the herb mixture had been given to someone by an Ojibway "Medicine Man," the man would not have divulged all of the ingredients because that was not the way it was done. (He told me that the four herbs were only part of the formula). There were also times when Don would just suggest to people that they go to the health food store and get the Essiac mixture - he did so when he did not have the ingredients with him. My mother actually drank it when she was diagnosed with colon cancer and it did shrink her tumor by about 1/2 between the time determined the size of it until when the doctors operated on her to remove it. It is a very gentle medicine - it tastes almost like celery juice - and my mother liked the taste. My mother lived another 5 years after her initial diagnosis and operation, but she did eventually succumb to the cancer.

The Essiac herbs do help with constipation and digestion - even my mother noticed that. Don was not a big fan of chemo, but would not talk a person out of it if they wanted to pursue the Chemo. He did, however, suggest that they drink the Essiac while undergoing the Chemo. Most of the people who chose to take Essiac along with Chemotherapy felt that the Essiac did help lesson the side effects of the Chemo.

Don did much of his work in the Sweat Lodge -his preferred method of healing was in the sweat lodge, but he supplemented his work with herbal medicines. Before he died, he worked for 4 years as the Traditional Physician at the Aboriginal health and Wellness Centre in Winnipeg, manitoba. There he met with and counseled clients and gave out herbal medicines if needed. He had a core group of medicines he used that were taught to him by Elders and herbalists from where he grew up, but he learned many things in his travels. In addition, he was open to trying new herbs and may have incorporated Essiac into his "pharmacy" after trying it out and refining the ingredients.

Here is a link to an article about him written after his passing: http://www.ammsa.com/content/don-cardinal-footprints
Please let me know if you have additional questions.
Title: Re: Cherry Valley Farm, Retreat, & Cate Crow's plagiarized fake cancer cures
Post by: Smart Mule on May 07, 2015, 01:52:22 pm
Hello Penelope,

My condolences on the loss of your husband.

I don't think anyone has an issue with Traditional Medicines used in a traditional setting. The issue here is the commodification of Traditional Medicines and individuals who use plagiarism and unscrupulous tactics, for example being involved with institutions that promote cultural appropriation and the like.

You said,
Quote
I do know that he used the four herbs in the mixture called "Essiac" and then added additional herbs to them to create a mixture he used to treat cancer and use as a body cleanser. I am not sure where he first heard of Essiac, but he did believe that if the herb mixture had been given to someone by an Ojibway "Medicine Man," the man would not have divulged all of the ingredients because that was not the way it was done. (He told me that the four herbs were only part of the formula).

That is precisely the point :)

Title: Re: Cherry Valley Farm, Retreat, & Cate Crow's plagiarized fake cancer cures
Post by: penelope on May 07, 2015, 11:34:00 pm
I agree, Sky. And thank you for your kind condolences.

The commodification of Traditional medicines was a concern of my husband's - although he did not use that term for it. He was very suspicious of Western physicians and researchers for that reason. When his brother Harold was ill in a hospital in Edmonton a few months before he passed away, the hospital's physicians actually had a meeting with Harold's family and my husband to talk about a Traditional remedy that the family wanted Harold to take while in the hospital. After going through the usually lecture about how the herbal medicines could react badly with the Western Medicines, they demanded that my husband disclose every ingredient in the medicine. My husband refused as he did not believe that the medicine would interact negatively with the Western medicine his brother was taking. He also did not want them taking the ingredients, testing them, and possibly selling the information to a pharmaceutical company. The family ended up waiting until Harold was released from the hospital to give him the Traditional medicine.

What these commercial pharmaceutical companies (and these wannabe healers) do not understand is that it is not just about the plant - it is also about the Traditional Healer's relationship with the plant and with the Creator, as well as how the plant is harvested and prepared. Don shared with me about how some of these medicines were like the prescription drugs that western doctors prescribed - they could cause sickness if not given with the right intention or prepared in the right way, or taken in the right dosage, and that is why the formula is not freely given out to anyone who wants it. Also, if it gets in the wrong hands - someone who practices in a negative way - the medicine could hurt or kill someone.

After Don died, there were a few people that he knew who actually made more of their relationship with him than was really there. A few people in the states who are herbalists claim that my husband taught them how to make a number of herbal medications - but that is untrue. The contact he had with them was for maybe 3 to 5 days every year or two and most of it was in ceremony. These people did not have any experience harvesting or preparing the medicines with him. There is one herbalist in Winnipeg who runs a small herb store and although he was not taught by Don,he  is very knowledgeable and has a good relationship with the Aboriginal people who come to his store. He provides Elders with medicines for ceremonies that they cannot get from the land around here, and he deeply discounts the herbs or supplies them to the Elders pretty much free of charge.



Title: Re: Cherry Valley Farm, Retreat, & Cate Crow's plagiarized fake cancer cures
Post by: Pagangod on June 12, 2015, 01:56:38 pm
I ran across something in here about Geoffrey Ashe who I am familiar with. Something that was taken out of context. He did conclude the Tor was a labyrinth with pagan roots along with Russell Scott as did Kathy Jones in her book The Goddess of Glastonbury. Ashe goes into more detail in his book The Glastonbury Tor Maze. Half the people around these parts call the Tor the labyrinth.

I have a friend who is Ojibwe. I was curious. I sent him the formula in here and asked him if it was fake. He said it wasn't fake, said there was more to it but felt that the medicine man who said it was legit. It is used here in the U.K. by naturopathic doctors in the treatment of cancer.
Title: Re: Cherry Valley Farm, Retreat, & Cate Crow's plagiarized fake cancer cures
Post by: Pagangod on June 12, 2015, 02:08:32 pm
I have a question on the Munay Ki rites since we have heard of them here as well.

If the Q'ero Inka nation intended these rites as gifts to all of mankind, why are they considered genocidal or racist?

“We have been the keepers of rites that usher in who we are becoming as a people, as a planet. These processes are not only for the Indians, but for the entire world.”
 
                                                                                                – Don Manuel Quispe 
 

 Thank you
Title: Re: Cherry Valley Farm, Retreat, & Cate Crow's plagiarized fake cancer cures
Post by: Defend the Sacred on June 12, 2015, 05:13:17 pm
"Pagangod," please go to the member introductions section and introduce yourself.

Munay-Ki is a fraudulent, nuage mess. It's not traditional. Here is the main thread on it: http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1622.0

If you search from the main page you will find lots more on Munay-Ki. It's become a mainstay of the newage frauds.

If you read the thread you will see that most of the herbs in the forumula have some type of medicinal effects, but not the ones they're being pushed for, and it can be harmful to take if you have blood sugar issues or cancer. It often makes the cancer *grow*.  The person you talked to didn't know herbalism. Of course people want to believe it will help. Cancer is horrible. But this is not the way to help.
Title: Re: Cherry Valley Farm, Retreat, & Cate Crow's plagiarized fake cancer cures
Post by: SallyN on August 24, 2015, 05:42:23 pm
Re: Glastonbury Tor etc. I live in Glastonbury and can safely say that no one calls it The Labyrinth, it's the Tor.
Title: Re: Cherry Valley Farm, Retreat, & Cate Crow's plagiarized fake cancer cures
Post by: mamàndà-gashkitòwin on November 21, 2015, 08:41:03 pm
This is sure a hot mess. I looked at that complaint site and the people who are posting there seem to all be white. They sure have a lot to say and Cate seems hellbent on consorting with people who promote and participate in appropriation. Cate since its real obvious you are monitoring this thread I would like to invite you to meet with some Elders in your area. I would like to know how you explain all the things you have said especially bad things you said about FN and NA people. I know Pete and Nora. They are the same Nation but different band from me. I will post in their threads. You are walking a very dangerous path Cate. You cant claim to care about FN and NA people and respect traditions when you only do when it has a benefit for you.
Title: Re: Cherry Valley Farm, Retreat, & Cate Crow's plagiarized fake cancer cures
Post by: RedRightHand on November 21, 2015, 09:39:48 pm
On those two attack pages they've made about NAFPS, they have copied and pasted content from WHITE SUPREMACIST sites. For real, stuff that used to be on pages run by Neo-Nazi groups, that has since been taken down for the lies, libel and slander it is.

Think about that. The Neo-Nazi site administrators had more ethics here than Cate Crow and John O'Brien. Even they realized their attacks were unfounded and removed those lies. But now Cate and John are posting them.

Cate, and John O'Brien (the Wiccan who posted here as "Atehequa"), why are you posting the libel about our Native members and allies that was written by NAZIS?  Is one of you the person who used to hang out on Stormfront and attack brown people with these words? Did you just archive the words written by Nazis, or did you write those first posts yourselves?

Whether you're a mouthpiece or the author of white supremacist propoganda, the words of Nazis are coming out of your mouths and your keyboards. You are in bed with people who want Natives DEAD. Congratulations. You could have hardly shown your true colors in a more vivid, disgusting, and transparent way.

Next time there's a shooter who got their hit list from the sites you frequent, we will think of you.
Title: Re: Cherry Valley Farm, Retreat, & Cate Crow's plagiarized fake cancer cures
Post by: mamàndà-gashkitòwin on November 21, 2015, 10:10:22 pm
Consorting with Nazis is some scary stuff. You have to wonder about the kind of person that would do that. I kind of felt bad for Cate Crow because she seemed like she was mostly just a white lady who had no clue. But Naziism? That is a whole other ball game. Can you message me the link to the Nazi site that Cate Crow was getting the information from? I need to warn a real lot of people in her area.
Title: Re: Cherry Valley Farm, Retreat, & Cate Crow's plagiarized fake cancer cures
Post by: Autumn on November 21, 2015, 11:26:40 pm
Consorting with Nazis is some scary stuff. You have to wonder about the kind of person that would do that. I kind of felt bad for Cate Crow because she seemed like she was mostly just a white lady who had no clue. But Naziism? That is a whole other ball game. Can you message me the link to the Nazi site that Cate Crow was getting the information from? I need to warn a real lot of people in her area.

I don't mean to be an apologist for Cate, especially since she posted some more information about the cancer cures on the NAFPS thread on the Complaints Board site just as recently as early this month (makes tons of sense), but I don't think she is consorting with Nazis.  As you said, I just think she is clueless and she just will not let things rest.  I believe what happened is that when she was called out on this site, she went online and dug up all the dirt she could find about NAFPS and posted it on the Complaints Board site (since no one would kick her off) and some of it was the Nazi stuff.

The Complaints Board site is very hard to read because it is hard to tell when someone is actually using their voice and expressing their individual opinion or if they are just copying and pasting from other areas on the internet (which I believe includes about 99% of the material)--not that they should not be held accountable for passing on the junk they find online.
Title: Re: Cherry Valley Farm, Retreat, & Cate Crow's plagiarized fake cancer cures
Post by: RedRightHand on November 22, 2015, 12:14:52 am
I don't mean to be an apologist for Cate,

Are you sure about that? You might want to re-read what you posted. The way I read it, I'm seeing you minimizing some dangerous behavior.

Quote
especially since she posted some more information about the cancer cures

Wrong. She posted fake cancer cures that can harm people. Please be more careful with your words.

Quote
I don't think she is consorting with Nazis. 

Really? How do you know? Anything you want to tell us?

She chose to find that stuff and post it. Hanging out on Nazi boards is how she found it. Do you have any idea what you've just stepped in?
Title: Re: Cherry Valley Farm, Retreat, & Cate Crow's plagiarized fake cancer cures
Post by: Autumn on November 22, 2015, 12:20:57 am
I don't mean to be an apologist for Cate,

Are you sure about that? You might want to re-read what you posted. The way I read it, I'm seeing you minimizing some dangerous behavior.

Quote
especially since she posted some more information about the cancer cures

Wrong. She posted fake cancer cures that can harm people. Please be more careful with your words.

Quote
I don't think she is consorting with Nazis. 

Really? How do you know? Anything you want to tell us?

She chose to find that stuff and post it. Hanging out on Nazi boards is how she found it. Do you have any idea what you've just stepped in?

No, I don't know have any idea what I have just stepped in.  I am the clueless one.  I am very sorry if I have offended anyone.
Title: Re: Cherry Valley Farm, Retreat, & Cate Crow's plagiarized fake cancer cures
Post by: mamàndà-gashkitòwin on November 22, 2015, 01:16:53 am
Consorting with Nazis is some scary stuff. You have to wonder about the kind of person that would do that. I kind of felt bad for Cate Crow because she seemed like she was mostly just a white lady who had no clue. But Naziism? That is a whole other ball game. Can you message me the link to the Nazi site that Cate Crow was getting the information from? I need to warn a real lot of people in her area.

I don't mean to be an apologist for Cate, especially since she posted some more information about the cancer cures on the NAFPS thread on the Complaints Board site just as recently as early this month (makes tons of sense), but I don't think she is consorting with Nazis.  As you said, I just think she is clueless and she just will not let things rest.  I believe what happened is that when she was called out on this site, she went online and dug up all the dirt she could find about NAFPS and posted it on the Complaints Board site (since no one would kick her off) and some of it was the Nazi stuff.

The Complaints Board site is very hard to read because it is hard to tell when someone is actually using their voice and expressing their individual opinion or if they are just copying and pasting from other areas on the internet (which I believe includes about 99% of the material)--not that they should not be held accountable for passing on the junk they find online.

Nice to meet you to Autumn. I went and looked at the site and I could tell mostly what was quoted from other places and what were the own words from these people. Posting quotes that a person finds on a NeoNazi site means that they went to the NeoNazi site which means they knew it was a NeoNazi site but they still decided that they would use the information taken from the NeoNazi site. They have publikly and knowingly associated themselves with NeoNazis so I will call it as I see it. You do not have to agree with me I dont have to agree with you. I am calling it as I see it and so are you. I didn't post about the Nazi thing first but I followed up on it after what Right Hand Red posted and I will be showing my friends who live in that area the things that were shared from the NeoNazi site by Cate and that man. It is one thing to be angry cause you got called out on something and want to retaliete. When you get so angry that it colours your thinking and leads you to associate yourself with racist extremists it becomes a whole other issue. I am NOT saying that Cate Crow IS a Nazi I am saying that they should be a lot of concern because she made the choice to associate herself with them. They did not make her go to their websites for information. Normal people when they screw up they own it. They dont do the stuff that she did.
Title: Re: Cherry Valley Farm, Retreat, & Cate Crow's plagiarized fake cancer cures
Post by: ian bear on November 28, 2015, 03:05:34 am
more and more lies about cate. autumn not as clueless as you two
Title: Re: Cherry Valley Farm, Retreat, & Cate Crow's plagiarized fake cancer cures
Post by: AClockworkWhite on December 03, 2015, 02:56:45 am
more and more lies about cate. autumn not as clueless as you two
You couldn't be more ironic if you tried, son.