NAFPS Forum
General => Research Needed => Topic started by: BlackWolf on October 09, 2009, 02:32:11 am
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This bogus Cherokee Tribe has some big plans for the future! A shopping district, Hotel, and Cherokee Indian Museum are in the works!
http://www.gadsdentimes.com/article/20091007/NEWS/910079988 (http://www.gadsdentimes.com/article/20091007/NEWS/910079988)
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They've even applied for federal recognition.
Gary Garrison, a spokesman for the Bureau of Indian Affairs in Washington, said Wednesday the group has submitted a 664-page application, but the department usually is able to process only three or four applications a year, and there are 16 tribes ahead of the Cherokees of Alabama in the federal acknowledgment process.
Garrison said at best it will take three to four years before the group’s application even is considered, then another two years for a final decision to be issued. He said he doesn’t know why the group is so optimistic about the process.
http://www.gadsdentimes.com/article/20091007/NEWS/910079988
These fraudulent groups are what makes it so difficult for legitimate Nations to regain federal recognition they've lost in the past. Tribes such as the Mashpee Wampanoag, Lumbee, Duwamish, Rappahannock, Monacan, Shinnecock, Schaghticoke, Nanticoke, and Ramapough. The BIA is bogged down with applications from groups such as the Alabama Cherokee, Jerry Pope's Shawnee, Little Soldier's Munsee . . . all wasting time and money.
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Based in Gadsden, not to be confused with the Echota and Chickamauga and four other groups also claiming to be Cherokee tribes in Alabama.
Their website basically admits they haven't been around long. Under history there's nothing but the Indian Ten Commandments. Their "council" has two (!) people in it.
Photos
http://cherokeesofalabama.net/powwow.html
http://www.gadsdentimes.com/article/20090620/NEWS/906209991?Title=Cherokees-making-plans-for-golf-course
http://nachofoto.com/gallery/Cherokee_of_Alabama_Pow_Pow_in_Gadsden_August_30_2009-1
http://www.gadsdentimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/gallery?Avis=GT&Dato=20090830&Kategori=NEWS&Lopenr=830009998&Ref=PH&template=gallery
This is their tribal spokesperson Teresa Bolduc on a genealogy board back in 1999.
http://boards.ancestry.com/surnames.bush/42.43/mb.ashx
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http://www.gadsdenmessenger.com/articles/2009/06/24/news/news01.prt
Cherokees of Alabama lay out plans, bingo included
By Jacob Probus, News Editor (Updated: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 6:03 PM CDT)
....“We’re not interested in state (recognition),” Huddleston said, and so they have not applied for it, and don’t plan to do so....
In an opening statement by Teresa Bolduc, a tribal council member, she said the group has been formed for “about” nine years. She said they’re not seeking any kind of federal assistance for their members, they just want federal recognition....
They also laid out the process for joining the ‘tribe’ at the press conference. Anyone with certifiable one-eighth Cherokee blood can fill out an application to join. There is a voting process, a background check, and a vetting of heritage for prospective members.
“Anyone that can prove there heritage to Cherokee can join this tribe,” Sterling said, “but you have to prove that you’re Cherokee.”
Right now the group has “just a little under 300” members according to Huddleston. Natanda Three Winds, the membership chair on the council, said she handed out around 50 applications at the event.
“I want to ask for your support on this because this is going to bring jobs and money to Gadsden,” Jerry Lang, a member of the Warrior’s Society, said.
According to Lang the group is very family oriented.
“There’s no drinking, no alcohol, nothing like that involved in any of our activities because we’re family oriented,” Lang said. “We don’t allow drinking or drugs or anything like that.”
The Cherokees of Alabama will officially take over the 103.2-acre property on July 1, according to Huddleston.
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This is a discussion of their buying that golf course. Be warned if you go to that link, the thread has a lot of racist garbage.
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http://community.gadsdentimes.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3291074365/m/9301057219/p/2
rstephens Posted 09-03-2009 09:39 AM Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by k3s793:
Let's see...the people who owned the golf course knew that a reckoning was coming and they weren't going to make it with what funds they were taking in. They unloaded the property to the CoA. The CoA hoped to start raking in the bucks with electronic bingo. Hasn't happened and now they are facing the same issues. What I wonder is, if the CoA defaults are the prior course stockholders still on the hook to Regions Bank for the debt?
Local real estate folks tell me they paid cash, that someone wrote a check for $13.1 million.
Sure would be interesting to know how they got that kind of money. And who signed the check.
Could be a story for Andy Powell to look into.
bull
Posted 09-05-2009 11:38 PM Hide Post
why do you say that we (course stockholders) unloaded the property to the COA. the property is the most wanted property in etowah county. there were two companies that had decided to buy it but when the economy turned bad they both backed out which left it open for a new bid. the COA then took the initiative and purchased the best piece of land in the whole county. since the property was up for sale we sold it. dah?
and no, we weren't going to lose the property. we could have borrowed against it for the bank payment.
it is amazing how these rumors get started and then get bigger and bigger. and no, you are wrong about who is paying the money. but it is not for me to tell who it is but it is above board. sorry there isn't some scandal but sometimes what you see is just that.
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http://cullmantimes.com/local/x1116143570/Cherokee-group-asks-county-school-board-about-leasing-land
June 10, 2009
Cherokee group asks county school board about leasing land
By Trent Moore
A Cherokee education center could be on the way to Cullman county.
The Cullman County Board of Education has been approached by members of the Cherokee of Alabama to lease them land to create an American Indian education center in the Joppa area....
In a previous interview, Cherokee of Alabama member Teresa Bolduc said they hope to create “an educational hotspot” on the 357 acres near County Road 1807.
“We want to build a museum ... and walking trails ... and have a summer camp and teach survival techniques,” Bolduc said.
Allen said the school board has yet to see a detailed outline for exactly what the Cherokee would like to do with the land....
The Cherokee of Alabama had previously asked the Cullman county commission to lease them the land for $1 a year for 99 years, though the land was actually owned by the school board.
Bolduc previously said her organization has been trying to get the Joppa land for nearly nine years and have had trouble finding out who exactly has control of the property. She said her organization approached the board of education several years ago, but were told to contact the Alabama Department of Education. The state department later told them to contact the county commission, Bolduc said.
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I have read this newspaper article before.
It seems that they also want a casino too. That should pay for the golf course. If anyone is researching this "BUNCH" don't confuse them for the Cherokee tribe of north east alabama, (www.cherokeetribeofnortheastalabama.com) That tribe is State recognized this Bunch did come out of no where it seems. They were issued a cease and desist order to stop selling things as "Indian"
(read "BUNCH" as,,, doesn't even rate as club,,, well perhaps a golf club)
Maybe they should call themselves "The cherokee national golf and country club tribe".
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Of the Cherokee groups in Alabama that I know about the Echota and the Cherokee of NE Alabama are not, at least they weren't back in the 90s, about plastic anything. Indeed, I recall them ousting some who fit the term NAFPS.
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From what I personally know. Encountered them at a small powwow at Arab Al. Small powwow ten two fifteen vendors. Approached by the chief given tribal application it ended up in the trash. At that time a couple of years ago they had very few members, The tribal land really belonged to the chief I believe. I was very surprised that they had bought the golf course in Gadsden. What I have heard on the down low is that there has been some deep pockets over the last five or so years attempting to obtain a land base with Indian connection in order to open casino type gambling. One of my customers who raises Thoroughbred race horses clued me on to the matter. At that time the person was trying to secure land in Guntersville Al. to open a combination water park and Race course. There have also been rumors of an attempt to do a like manner park in the Fort Paine area. A lot of smoke here. I thought that maybe the CNO was behind the matter but with their stance on fraudulent tribes I don't think so now. I do not see how these people have this kind of money believe some third party gambling outfit is behind them. In talking with some of them what they know and practice as Cherokee heritage and traditions is highly suspect in my mind. This may bear further research. "LOM"
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You are referring to the ones who call themselves the Cherokees of
Alabama, right?
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yes unless I have gotten them mixed up with another group. Thought about it a little more some of what I was told at that powwow did not make sense with what I have found to be correct ceremony or history. Not real sure that they even understand that clans are passed down through the mother. Don't think that they understand the correct use of a ceremony pipe at a stomp. I usually can tell in just a minute or two if they know what the are talking about I ask questions. What was cedar used for and how. what is the correct way to smudge etc. How was a pipe used and by whom. What kind of drum did they use. I'll know in about five minutes or so if they are true or just members of the wannabe tribe. Degadageyusedi "LOM"
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That's what I thought, that it is the group that calls themselves The Cherokees of Alabama who were not genuine. The Echota of Alabama and the Cherokee of NE Alabama have always impressed me as not being fake in any way. I was warned about the group this thread covers back in 1998 when I first started attending gatherings in Alabama.
I thank you for the giggles I got when I read about the questions you ask. Some day I'll have to tell you what some of the wannahbes down here in Florida think is traditional Cherokee. It will floor you.
donadagohvi, tsosdadanvtli
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The Echota of Alabama and the Cherokee of NE Alabama have always impressed me as not being fake in any way.
White Wolf, Just what was it about them that impressed you?
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It was a bit of what I saw and what I didn't see, Black Wolf. Please bear in mind that I was only at one of their gatherings once.
For one thing I was given to understand they require at least a certain amount of documentation for one to ever become a member. For snother, they did not seem to be trying to recruit anyone like the Cherokees of Alabama have been known to do. No mention of anything to do with some of the shenanigans that have occurred elsewhere was evident.
The people seemed respectful and genuine. They made sure that everyone understood that they were a state recognized band and not a federally recognized one. They explained this meant they were not official members of the CN per BIA and other guidelines. You see, some others do not openly make claims to being part of the CN but the things they say will give those who do not know better, aka: the public, the impression that they are genuine, federally enrolled members or in some way officially representing the Cherokee. The Echota made sure to point out that any such impression was false.
All this and the general "spirit", for lack of a better word, of the people I met there is what impressed me. That was back in either 1998 or 1999, I don't recall for sure which year it was.
nvwatohiyadv
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It was a bit of what I saw and what I didn't see, Black Wolf. Please bear in mind that I was only at one of their gatherings once.
For one thing I was given to understand they require at least a certain amount of documentation for one to ever become a member. For snother, they did not seem to be trying to recruit anyone like the Cherokees of Alabama have been known to do. No mention of anything to do with some of the shenanigans that have occurred elsewhere was evident.
The people seemed respectful and genuine. They made sure that everyone understood that they were a state recognized band and not a federally recognized one. They explained this meant they were not official members of the CN per BIA and other guidelines. You see, some others do not openly make claims to being part of the CN but the things they say will give those who do not know better, aka: the public, the impression that they are genuine, federally enrolled members or in some way officially representing the Cherokee. The Echota made sure to point out that any such impression was false.
All this and the general "spirit", for lack of a better word, of the people I met there is what impressed me. That was back in either 1998 or 1999, I don't recall for sure which year it was.
nvwatohiyadv
I think these groups can be looked at from a few different angles.
The first is regarding their alleged Cherokee heritage. If this can be answered, then the other issues would gain secondary importance. Meaning cultural and Tribal Recognition.
I won’t deny that as least some of their members are of Cherokee heritage. There were handfuls of Cherokees that stayed behind after the Trail of Tears throughout our Tribal lands in the SE. (Although a lot of these people later joined up with the EB, but that’s another story). So there were most likely a few families scattered over NE Alabama. And in all likely hood, stories of their Cherokee heritage were in fact passed down to them. With that said, I”m assuming that these are some of the people who can document their heritage to some of the Rolls and censuses, court records, etc, etc. But lets keep in mind, this only accounts for a small percentage of people that claim Cherokee heritage and aren’t enrolled. Some one else on these boards said that American Indian people are one of the most well documented people on the face of the earth. And Cherokees were pretty well documented. So I’m sure there are at least some members of the Tribes in Alabama you mention who are Cherokee. There may even be a smaller number who can’t document themselves. Maybe it was an illegitimate child, maybe a mixed blood changed their name and did their best to hide their heritage, etc.
But WHAT ELSE is known is that having Cherokee heritage in the SE is no more then a myth and legend that has a lot to do with the crossing of American folklore combined with specific historical circumstances that have occurred in the Untied States. I’ll concede at least that most people that claim Cherokee heritage and can’t prove it really believe it, but I’ll also say that most of these claims are false and baseless. On a few other threads I touched on this topic, the reasons behind it, and simple math, statistics and numbers that people can look at themselves, but I won’t go into it again. I’ll just say most people in the SE that claim to have Cherokee heritage DON”T
With that said, I know someone who was involved with the Echota Cherokee Tribe of Alabama and he told me that they can enroll someone with just a signed avadavit from someone testifying that the person in question is or was known to be Cherokee. If someone has evidence from “other Cherokee rolls”, then they’d be Cherokee. But from what I was told, most people in the State Recognized Tribes in Alabama don’t have concrete evidence, and the little bit of alleged evidence some show isn’t really proof. So I’ll say most of them aren’t even Cherokee. So the other issues of culture and official recognition become meaningless. You can’t get to second base without touching first.
But regardless, the other issue is culture. I looked at their websites a few months ago and I saw people on their website with a bunch of stereotypical names that aren’t part of Cherokee culture, made up clans based on geographical locations as opposed to it being passed on through the mother, and a lot of pictures of people dressed up in powwow regalia. The few areas of Cherokee history they touch on seems to be borrowed readings, and they had some history that was clearly fabricated.
But with that said. Culture can be learned. Even if they did represent Cherokee culture fairly accurately, it still wouldn’t make them Cherokees for the above mentioned reasons. Whereas there are enrolled Cherokee Nation citizens and Eastern Band members who because of disconnection with their respective Tribal comminutes and relocation to places such as California and Texas that know very little about Cherokee heritage. These people are still Cherokee regardless, because being Cherokee is about being “Cherokee by blood”. And white people will always be white people regardless of what they learn of our history. our culture and our language. I’m not saying culture isn’t important, just that your either “Cherokee by blood” or your not. Our blood has been spilt more times then can be counted, and now the descendants of those who invaded our homeland in the SE now want to steal our heritage.
The other issue is Tribal Recognition. And it wouldn’t make them a Tribe because only the Federal Government can recognized a Tribe. I’d like to say they could be a Cherokee Heritage Group. But you can’t say that either if most of them aren’t Cherokee.
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http://www.blogcatalog.com/blog/pollys-granddaughter (http://www.blogcatalog.com/blog/pollys-granddaughter)
I found this blog recently that a Cherokee from Oklahoma has. It kind of touches on what I wrote to a certent extent.
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What you have said does not surprise me, Black Wolf. I have not been around the Echota since that one gathering. Back in 2004 when we had all the hurricanes criss-crossing the state one was headed directly for my place so the day before it was to arrive I bugged out and went up to Alabama. That was the last time I saw anyone from the Cherokee of NE Alabama.
I was told that the group had been decimated because many had to move due to loss of jobs or their employer moved out of state. I was also told that the members of several Alabama groups were no longer following much tradition and were becoming more new age than native. That's why what you posted is of no surprise to me. I had hoped that they would turn things around but it sounds like things went from bad to worse.
nvwatohiyadv
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@Unegv Waya,
A little bird told me that the Cherokee of NE Alabama had gotten way new age-ish.
Their Chief won't answer the phone or return my calls.
@BW
you said above:
"I’m not saying culture isn’t important, just that your either “Cherokee by blood” or your not".
Are you saying that the Dawes rolls are the only way to be Cherokee by blood?
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@BW
you said above:
"I’m not saying culture isn’t important, just that your either “Cherokee by blood” or your not".
Are you saying that the Dawes rolls are the only way to be Cherokee by blood?
Hey Paul. I see your back from your banishment. haha just kidding. No, I'm not saying the Dawes Rolls are the only way. There's a lot of other rolls and censuses people can use to establish that they are Cherokee.
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Which rolls were your Cherokee ancestors on Pau? I think I remember you said you found them on a census or something if I remember right.
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@BW
you said above:
"I’m not saying culture isn’t important, just that your either “Cherokee by blood” or your not".
Are you saying that the Dawes rolls are the only way to be Cherokee by blood?
Hey Paul. I see your back from your banishment. haha just kidding. No, I'm not saying the Dawes Rolls are the only way. There's a lot of other rolls and censuses people can use to establish that they are Cherokee.
OK, Just so we all understand.
Which rolls were your Cherokee ancestors on Paul? I think I remember you said you found them on a census or something if I remember right.
On one side, (Sutton) Some were early settlers, (Arkansas census). Some were on (and died) on the Trail of Tears, (Ward/Sutton). Some were in the Civil war (union NDN home guard) (Ely and Joshua). and some just stayed on their farm.( my direct line) They did move around a lot back then but, I guess that each opted for what they thought was best for them. (one of gGrandfather's sons went to I.T. after the TOT and stayed). The other side (Hulsey) is one of those stories that you hear about. Family rumor thingy has it that gGrandma would beat the crap out of her kids if they mentioned it.
So you see I can identify with all sides of this debate.
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Just a small thingy from page 1:
@BW
you said:
"I know someone who was involved with the Echota Cherokee Tribe of Alabama and he told me that they can enroll someone with just a signed affidavit from someone testifying that the person in question is or was known to be Cherokee."
As I said before, I have family in this Tribe. So I talked to a member of the Tribe about what you said. They told me that yes, an signed affidavit may be used to prove linage to someone that records prove to be an NDN from Ala. For example, let's say that 4 generations ago you have a relative that is on some roll or other document. You must produce a genealogical tree to that person and then the documents that connect you to each person in that tree. but due to a lack of a proper paper trail you can't produce a birth or death cert somewhere in the middle. My friend said that an affidavit stating that this person was in fact your relative, as stated in your tree could be used. But that it is not intended to be used in place of a tree and the other documents.
Now of course there may be examples found that this was not always the case but, then again,,, one could also do the same thing with the Dawes rolls too.
BTW:
I found it odd that you would ask for my info and then didn't bother to reply to the answer.
I feel that I gave you more than anyone normally would over the open internet. but yet, no reply,,, hummm ????
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Paul,
These people will never accept anyone as being Cherokee who isn't federally recognized. The irony is that they assume that the white government saved them. I really hope that federal recognition is taken away from the CNO, and that Indian people will be able to simply one day be people and be able to get the hell out of the 19th century. You should check out some of the recent posts in the Freedmens thread. Sorry, but these people are racists.
Frank
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OMG. That's a lot of gall you have there. So you've met every single one of them in order to make such a statement? Never mind, I don't care to hear any more. After reading this, and the other posts, I have to say I am leaning to agree with the argument that you yourself are racist..
It's obvious the only reason you posted this was to offend and inflame.. you already have a thread in the Etcetera forum.. why do you have to hijack yet another thread with your anti-Cherokee racist remarks?
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Paul,
These people will never accept anyone as being Cherokee who isn't federally recognized. The irony is that they assume that the white government saved them. I really hope that federal recognition is taken away from the CNO, and that Indian people will be able to simply one day be people and be able to get the hell out of the 19th century. You should check out some of the recent posts in the Freedmens thread. Sorry, but these people are racists.
Frank
Wow,, holy crap where did that come from.
OK I went over and read all of your thread. my position is simple. It was the will of the Tribe,,, so be it. Right or wrong doesn't matter. As I said in other threads,,, it is what it is,,,
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Paul,
These people will never accept anyone as being Cherokee who isn't federally recognized. The irony is that they assume that the white government saved them. I really hope that federal recognition is taken away from the CNO, and that Indian people will be able to simply one day be people and be able to get the hell out of the 19th century. You should check out some of the recent posts in the Freedmens thread. Sorry, but these people are racists.
Frank
Why are you so full of hate? Especially toward the CNO? Do you hate the EBCI or UKB with equal intensity? The more you post, the more you come across as prejudiced . . . prejudiced against citizens of the CNO, especially those mixed with white. Do you hate yourself because you're mixed-blood Cherokee? If you hate the Cherokee so much, forget about your Cherokee blood; live your life as a bi-racial person.
Most Indian people don't want to "simply . . . be people". They are proud of their heritage; proud to be Cherokee or Mvskoke or Lenape or Oneida. "get the hell out of the 19th century" . . . What's that supposed to mean? If you're talking about pride in your Nation; the belief in sovereignty; the right of a Nation to set citizenship requirements . . . You couldn't be more wrong. That's not 19th century. That's the way it should be. Time will never change that.
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BTW:
I found it odd that you would ask for my info and then didn't bother to reply to the answer.
I feel that I gave you more than anyone normally would over the open internet. but yet, no reply,,, hummm ?
Thanks for the reply Paul. I was just curious which Roll it was because you mentioned it before in one of the other Threads.
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BTW:
I found it odd that you would ask for my info and then didn't bother to reply to the answer.
I feel that I gave you more than anyone normally would over the open internet. but yet, no reply,,, hummm ?
Thanks for the reply Paul. I was just curious which Roll it was because you mentioned it before in one of the other Threads.
That's cool, I just thought you were going somewhere with your question..