Author Topic: Ken: Criticizing Newage is "Racist"  (Read 13817 times)

Offline Ken

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Ken: Criticizing Newage is "Racist"
« on: April 02, 2006, 09:28:23 pm »
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You misunderstand, again: they're theology students, training in a Methodist seminary. Tinker's not teaching them newage tosh about 'sacred spaces' so they can feel spiritual: they're learning, for example, about the communal values exemplified by the two Lakota brothers who killed uncegila.


That sounds extremely bigoted and very racist.
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 am by educatedindian »

Offline Barnaby_McEwan

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Re: The Standing Bear: Center For Shamanic Studies
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2006, 09:39:37 pm »
Once again you've lost me, Ken. What do you mean?

Offline Ken

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Re: The Standing Bear: Center For Shamanic Studies
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2006, 09:49:06 pm »
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You misunderstand, again: they're theology students, training in a Methodist seminary. Tinker's not teaching them newage tosh about 'sacred spaces' so they can feel spiritual: they're learning, for example, about the communal values exemplified by the two Lakota brothers who killed uncegila.


Once again you've lost me, Ken. What do you mean?


If it's not "Native" its "tosh", if its not "Native" its New Age?  You toss the "New Age" term about freely and here it has become associated with anything "non-Native," especially when spiritual concepts are discussed.  Are Native Americans the only ones who can be "spiritual?"  Are non-Natives not worthy of having rituals, beliefs, and ceremonies related to "spiritual matters?"  Your use of the terms "New Age," "Nuage," and others in a derogatory manner relative to non-Native beliefs and practices are exactly the kind of racist and bigoted remarks you accuse of others of using.  

Offline Barnaby_McEwan

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Re: The Standing Bear: Center For Shamanic Studies
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2006, 10:00:26 pm »
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If it's not "Native" its "tosh", if its not "Native" its New Age?
It's not either/or, Ken. I only use 'newage', 'nuage', etc to specifically refer to new age ideas, not to all non-Native ideas or spirituality. And I use words like 'tosh' for the kind of ideas often referred to breathlessly as 'teachings' which for some reason people mysteriously 'receive', like a TV programme or a utility bill, rather than studying or learning them. After they've paid, of course.

Offline Ken

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Re: The Standing Bear: Center For Shamanic Studies
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2006, 10:02:14 pm »
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If it's not "Native" its "tosh", if its not "Native" its New Age?
It's not either/or, Ken. I only use 'newage', 'nuage', etc to specifically refer to new age ideas, not to all non-Native ideas or spirituality. And I use words like 'tosh' for the kind of ideas often referred to breathlessly as 'teachings' which for some reason people mysteriously 'receive', like a TV programme or a utility bill, rather than studying or learning them. After they've paid, of course.

That is expressly bigoted and racist in exactly the same context you accuse others of being.

Offline Barnaby_McEwan

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Re: The Standing Bear: Center For Shamanic Studies
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2006, 10:10:57 pm »
Please explain rather than repeating yourself. Which race am I prejudiced against, for example?

Offline Mo

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Re: The Standing Bear: Center For Shamanic Studies
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2006, 11:38:53 am »
new age beliefs are not connected to a single race or ethnicity although its practitioners do seem to anger many groups. it steals traditions from this group and that group and mixes it up with wild imaginations until its a mockery of things held sacred by traditional peoples of various cultures. i think "tosh" is a polite way of saying BS. cries of racism just don't cut it. in fact it shows you have no defense at all.

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Ken: Criticizing Newage is "Racist"
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2006, 02:41:17 pm »
Ironically Ken, you're doing exactly what you falsely label Barnaby as doing. You equate Nuage with white.

And here's the further ironies: Barnaby's a white guy. A red haired very fair skinned guy from Britain. Not only that, best I can tell, he doesn't share any Native beliefs. He seems to me to be an atheist or agnostic.

What you seem to be doing Ken, is saying any criticism of Nuage is "racist and prejudiced". So does that mean any critic of any religious belief is a bigot? Then that would include any criticism you've made of other beliefs.

Offline Barnaby_McEwan

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Re: Ken: Criticizing Newage is "Racist"
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2006, 03:35:16 pm »
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And here's the further ironies: Barnaby's a white guy. A red haired very fair skinned guy from Britain.

That's right: I'm so white that my legs turn a pale shade of mauve when it's cold!

Offline Ganieda

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Re: Ken: Criticizing Newage is "Racist"
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2006, 08:32:59 am »
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It's not either/or, Ken. I only use 'newage', 'nuage', etc to specifically refer to new age ideas, not to all non-Native ideas or spirituality. And I use words like 'tosh' for the kind of ideas often referred to breathlessly as 'teachings' which for some reason people mysteriously 'receive', like a TV programme or a utility bill, rather than studying or learning them. After they've paid, of course.
It seems to me that your flippant and disrespectful remarks are calculated to anger Ken. ?

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Are Native Americans the only ones who can be "spiritual?" ? Are non-Natives not worthy of having rituals, beliefs, and ceremonies related to "spiritual matters?" ?

Good question, Ken.  ?
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 am by educatedindian »
*May the Sun warm your Heart, The Moon light your Path and Sacred Mother Earth embrace and protect you always.*

Offline Ganieda

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Re: Ken: Criticizing Newage is "Racist"
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2006, 08:14:17 am »
*Please note that my last post to this thread has been edited by educatedindian. *
*May the Sun warm your Heart, The Moon light your Path and Sacred Mother Earth embrace and protect you always.*

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Ken: Criticizing Newage is "Racist"
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2006, 05:24:00 pm »
Gee Ganeida, did you think no one can read the note in that post, saying the exact same thing?

Since you seem to be having trouble seeing, take a look at the bottom of that post, where it clearly says "edited by..."

Your post was edited because you've been warned before that you should take your personality conflicts with Barnaby to private emails. What you did was trolling and attempting to bait him, not to mention childish. Again, take up your problems with him, don't waste this forum's time.

To both Ken and Ganeida, if you are going to whine "racist!" continually whenever you have no proof or arguments to defend Nuage nonsense, all you do is invite laughter. NDNs have seen that same empty headed non-argument before. We tend not to waste our time on it, since the person is usually beyond hope of reaching with reason. So since no one willwaste time answering you, you get a false sense of having scored points, as though this were some football game or high school debate.

Add to that your paranoia, persecution complex based on vivid imaginations, and even conspiracy theories, and your presense here is in danger of becoming obnoxious. Once again, we are to warn the public about frauds, not to hold your hands because you feel persecuted by those awful dark skinnned people. If you want empty comforting words you should go elsewhere.

Offline Ganieda

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Re: Ken: Criticizing Newage is "Racist"
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2006, 12:29:06 am »
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Gee Ganeida, did you think no one can read the note in that post, saying the exact same thing? ?
Since you seem to be having trouble seeing, take a look at the bottom of that post, where it clearly says "edited by..."

Of course I saw and read that. ? I just wanted it put into my own words. ? Of course, now that you have deleted my words, as well as other posts ....no one can decide for themselves just what was said. ?

Deciding what people will or will not read is not editing, it's censorship.
*May the Sun warm your Heart, The Moon light your Path and Sacred Mother Earth embrace and protect you always.*

Offline Barnaby_McEwan

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Re: Ken: Criticizing Newage is "Racist"
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2006, 10:17:06 am »
 ::)

For goodness' sake. You run several forums of your own: I'm sure you wouldn't allow people to write just anything on them. I'm locking this thread: if you want to pick a fight with me, do it on one of your own forums.

Offline Ken

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Re: Western philosophy and Native traditions?
« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2006, 12:08:12 pm »
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 My guess is that most members, and most NDNs in general, think our traditions were given to us for a reason, and that it's best to stick with them. That doesn't mean we can't see value in other faiths or philosophies or worldviews.

Then why is it a "racist act"  and "fraudulent" in your words for non-Natives to find value in NDN faiths, philosophies, and worldviews?