Author Topic: "Ally" Derailment Thread  (Read 15012 times)

Offline Smart Mule

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Re: Introduction
« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2015, 05:10:59 pm »
Hi pemibear,

Waz was contacted by one of our mods and her take on your relationship is that you exchanged a couple of emails. She agreed to read through some of your work but has yet to see anything and never committed to being an editor for you. I hope that you have not made similar claims eluding to having a working relationship with her. Making statements such as that give off an uncomfortable 'ownership' vibe toward indigenous people.


Offline RedRightHand

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Re: Introduction
« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2015, 09:54:01 pm »
It never ceases to amaze me how white people will come here and claim to be involved in Indian Country, but not know what a tiny place Indian Country is. How the simplest things, that Natives take for granted, such as asking who vouches for you, will be met with defensiveness and hostility by non-Natives.

People who come here and make claims should be prepared to be called on said claims. If you come here and humbly help with the work, it's appreciated. If you come here with an agenda, it gets found out damn quick. It's insulting how white people think NDNs won't check up on claims.

If no one claims you as NDN, you're not NDN.

If no one claims you as an ally, you're no ally.

Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: "Ally" Derailment Thread
« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2015, 10:55:18 pm »
Original Nolumbeka Project thread here: http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=4689.0

Sorry for any lack of continuity. We're trying to keep things on topic here.

Offline earthw7

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Re: "Ally" Derailment Thread
« Reply #18 on: August 17, 2015, 06:09:45 pm »
Ok i have to say this from my point of view did you ever notice that people who claim to be ally
are overly nice with please, thank you, I am sorry over and over again we are politic and respectful to a point
then we kick your asses ;D
In Spirit

Offline RedRightHand

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Re: Introduction
« Reply #19 on: August 17, 2015, 06:35:19 pm »
In more detail, and more directly:  Pemibear (quoted below) was asked in private who her "circle" of Native "friends, associates and comrades" are, and which Natives claim her as an ally. She was politely asked to name just one person who vouches for her. She got very defensive and refused to answer. She also peppered her speech with appropriated Native spiritual terms.

When asked what activist groups she's worked and trained with, all the groups she named are ones run by and for white liberals. 

I am terribly sorry.  I have been told that I am an ally by Native activists, comrades and friends with whom I stood beside in social justice and environmental struggles.  I take my education as an ally, by those Native comrades, very seriously.  That education has come in the formal (trainings for activists) as well as informal forms (being justifiably knocked up-side the head by friends).  If you knew me and knew my history, and my circle of non-cyber friends, associates and comrades in the Native community, you would know that.  But I'm not going there.  Suffice to say that I agree with you and I will not proclaim myself an ally in a community of people to whom I have not proven myself.  I am truly sorry and humbled.
With gratitude~

Offline AClockworkWhite

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Re: "Ally" Derailment Thread
« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2015, 06:41:37 am »
One of the faster burnouts I've seen on a forum this big.
I came here for the popcorn and stayed for the slaying of pretenders.

Offline pemibear

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Re: "Ally" Derailment Thread
« Reply #21 on: October 06, 2015, 03:55:33 am »
I did not post any more because, as I said, I didn't come here to socialize, but to bring folks attention to some questionable people.  And i found them because my network knows about my work and my project and many people report such things to me.  I know that I am no longer welcome.  You don't owe me an explanation.  As I said, I'll only planned to stop by if i have something to share, in which I think you all might be interested.  But if you prefer i don't, then I won't.  But to clarify...
Here is the last message that I received from Waz about the book on which I'm working: 

[Deleted public post of private email. Waziyatawin simply agreed to take a look at "pemibear"s manuscript if and when she writes it. She most expressly DID NOT give pemibear permission for pemibear to post any of her words.- ed ]

I'm sorry that I offended folks.  And yes, I've been working on this project diligently, amidst numerous losses in my life, computer crashes and through a serious illness last year, and I haven't wanted to send Waz half-assed, not well-thought out, unorganized and unedited pieces.  I know how busy she is.  She has always been gracious so I was unaware of her feeling exhausted by my messages.  I was just getting ready to send her some work and I do hope that she will still do a read-through of it.  If not, I'm sure I'll find someone else.  I don't want it to go without input from those effected, even though it WILL include many first hand-stories shared about how cultural appropriation has personally affected folks.

Of late, I've set a plan for deeper focus to get this project done.  You may judge me as you must.  I understand.  I am a guest in your home .  As I said, I will continue to work to expose frauds and educate fellow settlers about the implications of Cultural Appropriation regardless of whether or not I do it here.  In fact, I do so quite often, outside of writing the book, and am compiling a lot of that correspondence with interested parties, to use in the final draft. But I did not come here to socialize and if I'm welcome to continue to post, not about me but about the issue, that would be great, but if you prefer I leave than I will not be back in any capacity. 

Respectfully~

« Last Edit: October 07, 2015, 07:50:48 pm by Yells At Pretendians »

Offline pemibear

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Re: "Ally" Derailment Thread
« Reply #22 on: October 06, 2015, 04:09:17 am »
..and all proceeds are going directly to programs for the prevention of Native Youth Suicide via people who are doing the work.  100%.   

Offline pemibear

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Re: "Ally" Derailment Thread
« Reply #23 on: October 06, 2015, 12:20:39 pm »
Quick response to RedRightHand, then I'll be gone.  I was not being defensive when you asked me to share a list of my Native friends.  I just thought the request was disrespectful to those friends.  I don't use my friendships to validate who I am.  THAT is disrespectful and disgraceful IMHO.  I'm perfectly fine with this community rejecting my claims and my work.  I understand where the hatred comes from and would never try to quell it with words.  That is not my place.  And I'm much tougher than I seem, despite being "nice".  I've survived much violence in my life, so words don't really hurt me.  I'm not seeking to accumulate friends of any particular group, or badges.  I have plenty who support me and who are happy that I'm working on a project for settlers because those people who appropriate culture don't read anything that Native people say about cultural appropriation.  I am and will remain grateful for the work you all do here and for your feedback.  Your anger is a gift.  It reminds me to always reflect.  Too much time has been wasted here, on me, when there is important work to do.  FYI, I don't have a lot of respect for white gatekeepers, because in itself, that is an insult to those whose gate is being kept.  People can stand up for themselves.  They don't need members of the oppressive, dominant culture to go around beating up the people THEY think are not worthy.  After reading through all the comments I don't think it is doing this community any good for me to be here, and I am wasting your precious time, so I will not return.  I'm not leaving feeling defeated.  On the contrary, I am leaving with a greater understanding.  In solidarity~

Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: "Ally" Derailment Thread
« Reply #24 on: October 06, 2015, 02:52:43 pm »
I'm not sure how calling Native people's reaction to your boundary violations, "hatred", builds "solidarity."

I deleted the alleged email from Waz as you, and she, indicated it was a private email, sent long before you joined the forum here.  She did not give you permission to post anything she said, and it was an exploitative move for you to do that.

I'm not comfortable with you deciding to make people's private emails public, even though it was only a polite, noncommittal  response. I'm not comfortable with you violating her boundaries like that. I'm not going to speak for her here, but we are in communication and she is aware that you are doing this. I strongly advise you to stop doing this sort of thing to Native people, right now.

ETA: I don't agree that non-Natives who refuse to listen to Natives will agree to listen if another white person "interprets." Especially around issues of appropriation and misrepresentation.  Natives can speak for themselves. White interpreters are not needed.  If Natives want more people to help out with a project, they are fully capable of choosing their own teammates, and it's colonial of you to assign yourself to interpreter status.

And if you think Natives' rightful anger at being treated like fetishes, commodities and spiritual vending machines is "hatred," I really wonder how helpful anything you say to non-Natives about appropriation is going to be.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2015, 07:55:27 pm by Yells At Pretendians »

Offline AClockworkWhite

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Re: "Ally" Derailment Thread
« Reply #25 on: October 07, 2015, 03:38:28 am »
What an ironic comment coming from a white lady about gatekeeping....
I came here for the popcorn and stayed for the slaying of pretenders.

Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: "Ally" Derailment Thread
« Reply #26 on: October 28, 2015, 07:58:38 pm »
Ok i have to say this from my point of view did you ever notice that people who claim to be ally
are overly nice with please, thank you, I am sorry over and over again we are politic and respectful to a point
then we kick your asses ;D

Whether it's here or in other locales, white people just keep showing up to tell us what great allies they are - Sooper Dooper Allies, in fact! - and then we find out it's a cover for something unseemly. Many of them turn out to be pretendians or some other kind of hippie/nuage/enviro appropriator, or some strange person promoting made-up ceremonies as "universal", or white Americans claiming to represent some European tradition they are not a part of, either.

Lately some of these confused white people are even appropriating and colonizing the very idea of cultural appropriation - saying they are being appropriated from by other white people - even white people who are actually part of the culture the idiot is not a part of at all. Here's a hint, white folks, if it's an even playing field, it's not appropriation. Most of them seem to be trying to play Oppression Olympics. Or some kind of appalling Oppression Special Olympics... an unintentional parody by people who've never actually been oppressed.

I don't know whether to be sad for the stupidity out there, or angry that they assume we are stupid and won't see what they're trying to do.

Offline debbieredbear

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Re: "Ally" Derailment Thread
« Reply #27 on: October 28, 2015, 10:05:49 pm »


Lately some of these confused white people are even appropriating and colonizing the very idea of cultural appropriation - saying they are being appropriated from by other white people - even white people who are actually part of the culture the idiot is not a part of at all. Here's a hint, white folks, if it's an even playing field, it's not appropriation. Most of them seem to be trying to play Oppression Olympics. Or some kind of appalling Oppression Special Olympics... an unintentional parody by people who've never actually been oppressed.

I don't know whether to be sad for the stupidity out there, or angry that they assume we are stupid and won't see what they're trying to do.

Usually at this time of year, some Wiccan locally will whine to the paper on how people are "stealing" their holiday. (Halloween/Samhain). Not even realizing that they have approriated someone's traditions and made them their own. Then the holy rollers get all bent out of shape about "pagan holidays." And so it goes...