Author Topic: Adoption Ceremonies  (Read 129652 times)

Offline Cat

  • Posts: 83
Re: Adoption Ceremonies
« Reply #30 on: April 07, 2008, 06:48:19 pm »
Hi everyone,
I wanted to post on this from a non-native point of view.  I have many native peoples who call me daughter auntie sister etc.... I am a part of my husbands family "through marriage." And also being a part of these circles - I also know that that does not "make me"  Choctaw, Lakota, or Dine etc.....
Anyone who really is part of a real family "knows this"
Being a a part of a family does not make that "your blood"

I know my blood and heritage and am very proud of my peoples... I dont understand people who wannabe something they are NOT....

Cat

Offline glendadeer

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Re: Adoption Ceremonies
« Reply #31 on: April 08, 2008, 04:34:40 am »
Cat is my sister in law...lol :D

Offline Cat

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Re: Adoption Ceremonies
« Reply #32 on: April 08, 2008, 06:40:12 pm »
Glenda you may be cheesy but I love ya!!!!!!!!!!
Cat

Offline Barnaby_McEwan

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Re: Adoption Ceremonies
« Reply #33 on: April 08, 2008, 08:04:08 pm »
Sorry to be a party pooper but please everyone keep threads on topic.

Offline Cetan

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Re: Adoption Ceremonies
« Reply #34 on: April 14, 2008, 02:54:09 am »
I do know several people who were adopted by a very well known and respected Oglala family and it was done i ceremony anbd legally in tribal court and one of the became an enrolled member.

Offline porkypine

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Re: Adoption Ceremonies
« Reply #35 on: June 12, 2008, 10:08:58 pm »
Earth I need help!

The Sicangu have adopted me against my will and I don’t know what to do.  They say I am obligated to support the entire family.  They make me send money all the time to Mission.  I want to love more of them as family members but they will only marry me off one daughter.

What should I do?



 :D  :D  ahahaha... Don't you KNOW it!  The better job you have, the more relatives find you...     And you only get ONE wife... So deal with it..  Oh.. My cousin's nephew on the other side is having a giveaway so we need some help getting ready...

People just don't realize that you are obligated to help your family out... they don't like that part...
« Last Edit: June 12, 2008, 10:10:48 pm by porkypine »
Get used to it... I CAN NOT type worth a darn.. lol

Offline MatoSiWin

  • Posts: 57
Re: Adoption Ceremonies
« Reply #36 on: July 21, 2008, 06:23:15 pm »
Earth I need help!

The Sicangu have adopted me against my will and I don’t know what to do.  They say I am obligated to support the entire family.  They make me send money all the time to Mission.  I want to love more of them as family members but they will only marry me off one daughter.

What should I do?



 :D  :D  ahahaha... Don't you KNOW it!  The better job you have, the more relatives find you...     And you only get ONE wife... So deal with it..  Oh.. My cousin's nephew on the other side is having a giveaway so we need some help getting ready...

People just don't realize that you are obligated to help your family out... they don't like that part...


LOL... I have a great job and recently bought a house.  My good friend called me, and asked when the family can come move in, lol.  He siad he hopes the adoption records prove us to be cousins (although he has called me that already for nearly 17 years), so that I'm obligated to him and the rest of the cousins, lol".

Obviously, that wouldn't matter... all of them are welcome any time.  But the thread made me laugh when I read that. :)
« Last Edit: September 02, 2008, 03:12:59 pm by MatoSiWin »

Offline Sizzle Flambé

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Re: Adoption Ceremonies
« Reply #37 on: September 13, 2009, 02:29:13 am »
"Canadian law is different in that registration as an Indian under the provisions of the Indian Act is not based on percentage of Indian blood quantum. Under previous Indian Acts, it was possible for non-Indians to gain Indian status through marriage. Under the current Act, non-Indians can gain status through adoption by registered Indians." -- <http://www.ainc-inac.gc.ca/br/is/scs/faq-eng.asp#q23>

That means they can get official government cards certifying them as Indians.

Something to consider if you're shown a Canadian "Secure Certificate of Indian Status" as proof.

Offline Moma_porcupine

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Re: Adoption Ceremonies
« Reply #38 on: September 13, 2009, 03:41:50 pm »
Sizzle are you sure this is meaning adults , adopting adults? From what I have read people normally loose their Indian status in Canada after 2 generations of out marriage. I am having a hard time finding information on this , though I know i've read about it before... I see this mentioned in the link below and it appears to be a government website.

http://www.gov.mb.ca/ana/apm2000/1/i.html

See the section Status Inheritance Rules

What you are reading may refer to when a status indian adopts a non status child . 

http://web.ncf.ca/de723/statuschild.html

Quote
Adoptees and the
Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development (Canada)

In Canada, some adoptees may be registered as status Indians and as such, may be eligible for certain benefits.

The registration of persons as Indians is the responsibility of the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development in Ottawa. The Registrar, appointed under the Indian Act, determines who is and who is not entitled to be registered as an Indian using the entitlement criteria provided in the Indian Act. For more information, please see Who is entitled to receive benefits? on the DIAND website. The Indian Act does not allow for a loss of status by reason of adoption. Therefore Indian children remain registered whether they are adopted by Indians or non-Indians. Additionally, the Indian Act allows non-Indian children adopted by Indians to gain Indian status and possibly band membership.

Offline Sizzle Flambé

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Re: Adoption Ceremonies
« Reply #39 on: September 13, 2009, 08:19:41 pm »
Sizzle are you sure this is meaning adults , adopting adults? From what I have read people normally loose their Indian status in Canada after 2 generations of out marriage. I am having a hard time finding information on this , though I know i've read about it before... I see this mentioned in the link below and it appears to be a government website.

http://www.gov.mb.ca/ana/apm2000/1/i.html

See the section Status Inheritance Rules

More detail here, at section 9.14 Indian Status and Band Membership:

Quote
Subsection 6(1) of the Indian Act accords status to persons whose parents are or were (if they are no longer alive) defined as 'Indian' under section 6 of the act. Subsection 6(2) accords status to persons with one parent who is or was an Indian under section 6. All those who were status Indians when the new rules came into effect in 1985 are referred to as 6(1) status Indians. This includes non-Indian women who were married to Indian men at that time.

The difficulties arise for the children and grandchildren of today's 6(1) and 6(2) status Indians. For the grandchildren of the present generation of 6(1) and 6(2) Indians, the manner in which their parents and grandparents acquired status is an important determinant of whether the grandchildren have Indian status themselves. The net result of the new rules is that by the third generation, the effects of the 6(1)/6(2) distinction will be felt most clearly. Figure 9.1 shows how transmission of status works under the new rules.



Thus, comparing examples 3 and 5, it is clear that the children of a 6(2) parent are penalized immediately if the 6(2) parent marries out, while the children of 6(1) parents are not. Figure 9.2 extends the effects of the 6(1)/6(2) difference in examples 3 and 5 to illustrate this.

It is clear that the 6(1) parent has an advantage in terms of time if he or she marries out, since the child will still be a status Indian and will have the chance to marry another status Indian, 6(1) or 6(2), in order to retain Indian status for the children of that marriage. The 6(2) parent is not so fortunate, and may by marrying out cause status to be lost within the first generation. Thus, who the children marry is crucial in determining whether status is passed on to future generations, since there is a definite disadvantage to being in the 6(2) category. Nor should it be forgotten that this has very little to do with actual Indian ancestry, since the new rules are arbitrary and are built on the arbitrary distinctions that have come down through the history of the Indian Act and its predecessors.

What you are reading may refer to when a status indian adopts a non status child . 

http://web.ncf.ca/de723/statuschild.html

Quote
Adoptees and the
Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development (Canada)

In Canada, some adoptees may be registered as status Indians and as such, may be eligible for certain benefits.

The registration of persons as Indians is the responsibility of the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development in Ottawa. The Registrar, appointed under the Indian Act, determines who is and who is not entitled to be registered as an Indian using the entitlement criteria provided in the Indian Act. For more information, please see Who is entitled to receive benefits? on the DIAND website. The Indian Act does not allow for a loss of status by reason of adoption. Therefore Indian children remain registered whether they are adopted by Indians or non-Indians. Additionally, the Indian Act allows non-Indian children adopted by Indians to gain Indian status and possibly band membership.

That site (home page http://web.ncf.ca/de723/adoptee.html) is specifically for people born to Indian parents who were adopted out as children to non-Indian parents -- so its concern is adoption as a child. It simply doesn't address adoption as an adult.

Offline Moma_porcupine

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Re: Adoption Ceremonies
« Reply #40 on: September 14, 2009, 12:58:25 am »
Sizzle, I think what you read only refers to people who were adopted before the age of 18 .

The court case in the link below has lots of information on all angles of this.

http://www.msaj.com/Indian_Law_Cases/Buffalo%20v%20Canada%202005%20ABQB%20372%20(Can%20LII).pdf

Quote
Therefore, before individuals who are adopted as adults can acquire entitlement to Indian status and band membership through adoption, it must be established that the adoptee was adopted in all practical senses of the term by the adoptive parents while still a minor.

It may be i don't have all the facts , but it seems you are spreading incorrect information. I don't know why. You also mentioned this in your introduction. If you are going to say this, I think you should post some links to some credible websites that specifically state that in Canada people can get adopted as adults and gain Indian status. The link you posted DOES NOT specify whether this is reffering to children or adults.  It just says just says "adoption". The link above makes it very clear this means adoption as a child.

Offline Sizzle Flambé

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Re: Adoption Ceremonies
« Reply #41 on: September 14, 2009, 04:25:35 am »
It may be i don't have all the facts , but it seems you are spreading incorrect information. I don't know why.

MP, the above passages I cut-and-pasted with links are from <http://www.ainc-inac.gc.ca/>, Indian and Northern Affairs Canada, the federal government department in charge of these issues. You can click those links to see that I didn't alter a word. If you don't consider that a "credible website", I can't help you. Why you choose to accuse me of dishonesty for posting these direct quotes and links, I don't know, but it makes saying anything else to you pointless.

With regard to your cited court case, you quote paragraph 6 (on page 3) as though it settled the case. But read paragraphs 49 (on page 9) through 62 (on page 11), which cite the Adult Adoption Act. The court expressly noted that "child" (of a parent) does not always mean "minor", it can (and does in the Adult Adoption Act) include adult offspring and adoptees; and that Parliament could have but did not specify "minor child" in the Indian Act.

Quote
[61] Finally, it should also be noted that the Noël case involved an adult adoption in the province of Quebec. There appeared to be no dispute as to the entitlement of an adult adoptee to be added to a Band List but only whether a fraud had been perpetrated in the adoption procedure.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2009, 05:03:32 am by Sizzle Flambé »

Offline Moma_porcupine

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Re: Adoption Ceremonies
« Reply #42 on: September 14, 2009, 12:38:49 pm »
Sizzle
Quote
You can click those links to see that I didn't alter a word.
 

Sizzle the link you posted and what you quoted from the link says nothing about adoption of adults. You are choosing to interpret it that way.

You published this link in your introduction, and there you said ...

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2312.75
Reply #75
Sizzle Flambé 
Quote
Well, I suppose there's a gaping loophole to let in every fake "Indian" on that list: get adopted by an enrolled Indian in Canada -- it instantly qualifies you to register as "Indian" yourself under Canadian law, even if you have not a drop of Indian ancestry and never learned anything about any tribe's culture:

i doubt you are doing Canadian First Nations any favours by inventing silly rumors that if people go to canada and find someone with Indian status to adopt them they can get Indian status too ...

In your very selective citing of the court case, you are quoting things out of context. In context, it repeatedly says if the person is an adult they must have shown they were raised as a minor child  by the family legally adopting them .

In context, and just before the tiny bit you quoted....
 
Quote
[60]
The Registrar did obtain the requisite supporting documentation from Boczek and upon being satisfied that there had been a de facto adoption of Boczek while he was a minor, she allowed his application to be added to the Indian Register and the Band List, based on his legal adoption. Contrary to the early submissions of Samson to the Registrar, it was not relevant to her whether there had been a “custom adoption” of Boczek by Percy Johnson nor was it important for her to consult Samson as to its custom concerning adoptions. The Registrar was satisfied that an actual legal adoption had occurred and her investigation into whether a de facto adoption existed while Boczek was a minor was to ensure that the actual adoption was not a fraudulent attempt to gain benefits from band membership that Boczek would not otherwise be entitled to obtain. Such a result would have been contrary to the purposes of the Indian Act

And then quoting the bit you quoted , but in context
Quote
[61] Finally, it should also be noted that the Noël case involved an adult adoption in the province of Quebec. There appeared to be no dispute as to the entitlement of an adult adoptee to be added to a Band List but only whether a fraud had been perpetrated in the adoption procedure.

Earlier in the document it clearly explained that Noel was also a child who was raised by the people who legally adopted him as an adult...

Quote
[41] (begins....)As in the case at bar, Noël was an adult at the time of the adoption judgment and the Registrar conducted an investigation to confirm that a de facto adoption had occurred when he was a minor. (continues...)

 You are leaving out all the parts that don't fit with what you seem to want to believe...Who knows why .... I don't want to keep arguing with you but if you do, people need to be careful about accepting what you post without really going over it for themselves.

« Last Edit: September 14, 2009, 12:46:20 pm by Moma_porcupine »

Offline Sizzle Flambé

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Re: Adoption Ceremonies
« Reply #43 on: September 14, 2009, 03:27:30 pm »
Sizzle Flambé  
Quote
Well, I suppose there's a gaping loophole to let in every fake "Indian" on that list: get adopted by an enrolled Indian in Canada -- it instantly qualifies you to register as "Indian" yourself under Canadian law, even if you have not a drop of Indian ancestry and never learned anything about any tribe's culture:

i doubt you are doing Canadian First Nations any favours by inventing silly rumors that if people go to canada and find someone with Indian status to adopt them they can get Indian status too ...

The people I am trying to "do favours" are those unaware innocents who may be shown a Canadian "Certificate of Indian Status" as proof of actual Indian ancestry, and who might otherwise naïvely accept it as such -- when it proves no such thing.

Thus the very next sentence of <http://www.ainc-inac.gc.ca/br/is/scs/faq-eng.asp#q23> after the one I previously quoted: "As such, United States Immigration and Naturalization usually requests that an individual provide a letter of blood quantum from his or her First Nation or a letter from an INAC office verifying an individual's Indian ancestry." (to enter the United States to live or work without a green card or work permit -- the CIS not being sufficient proof.)

In your very selective citing of the court case, you are quoting things out of context. In context, it repeatedly says if the person is an adult they must have shown they were raised as a minor child by the family legally adopting them.

Which they may "show" by submitting Statutory Declarations from their adoptive parents and friends or neighbors to that effect -- to wit, pieces of paper with writing and notary stamps.

Now am I really being uncharitable to suggest that the sorts of frauds whose fakery we discuss here could submit just such documents (as fake as everything else) without a qualm, in order to get a real government certification of their being Indians?

Consider what Steven Akins of Jasper, Alabama, did to "show" Scotland's Lord Lyon King of Arms that he was "Akins of that Ilk", duly descended chief of the Clan, entitled to assume the vacant chiefship: provided a fake genealogy, faked wills (with stamps!), and even digitally modified gravestone photos. He now markets his book alleged to be an ancient scripture of the Druids, translated from German. (Said German text upon examination is only a bad computer translation from the English.)

Would four fake "Statutory Declarations" even be a challenge for him? And do you think other "New Age Frauds and Plastic Shamans" are far more honest and scrupulous than that?
« Last Edit: September 14, 2009, 03:41:45 pm by Sizzle Flambé »

Offline earthw7

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Re: Adoption Ceremonies
« Reply #44 on: September 15, 2009, 02:53:56 am »
so what does this have to do with traditional ceremonies of adoption by tribal people?
Government has little knowledge of our ceremonies such as Hunka
In Spirit