General > Frauds
NAFPS takes pride in being called "Enemy"
Moma_porcupine:
A lot of this information on John Martin is rearranged / borrowed from something Al posted over at Indianz.com
http://indianz.com/board/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=31451&whichpage=4
John Martin, uses the nameTallsoldier77 , Lakota_Siouxperman , and registered in NAFPS as Steve_w.
John Martin is a supporter of David Yeagley, and Yeagley is a supporter of many groups which are opposed to the recognition of Native sovereignty.
Below are some examples of Yeagley's ideas
http://web.archive.org/web/20041030225328/http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=273
FrontPageMagazine.com 2/26/2002
By David Yeagley
--- Quote ---"Superior beauty is in the white race, with its scintillating varieties of color: red, brown, amber, golden hair... green, blue, light brown, gray eyes. In the darker races, everything is always the same, dark brown and black a beastly bore."
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---"These days the white woman is expected to humble herself before the darkie
--- End quote ---
."
--- Quote ---"But Hitler was wrong in Mein Kamf (1925), when he accuses the Jewish male of a racial plot. When "the black-haired Jewish youth" finds himself sexually attracted to the fair Aryan maiden, there is no "clear aim of ruining the hated white race" through intermarriage. The Jew himself would breed out, for he is a small minority.
But the masses of darker races don't fear extinction, because they are the vast majority. The white race is the world's minority.
Its Judeo-Christian religion allowed the European Caucasian race to advance above all other people; but the darker races now encroach through integration and intermarriage, in the name of equality and diversity.
Pat Buchanan says that there's something wrong with a race that doesn't care whether it exists or not. In his new book, The Death of The West, he refers to my article, "What's Up With White Women," in which I write about a white girl who has no pride in her race or its accomplishments.
There are dark people who look forward to the end of "whitey."
--- End quote ---
http://web.archive.org/web/20061231043631/http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2005/04/korean_actress.php
Yeagley
--- Quote ---"Mixed raced people can't help what they are. Their's is no fault. But there is no need to repeat the same, or to advocate more, or to idolize such a condition by perpetuating it. When you realize you're on a wrong path, even if you didn't put yourself on it, the only dignified thing to do is to get back on the right path."
--- End quote ---
Yeagley also has a reputation supporting groups who oppose Indian sovereignty.
http://web.archive.org/web/20051222183130/http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=13399
Yeagley
--- Quote ---"I was invited to speak to leaders of Citizens Equal Rights Alliance, United Property Owners, Upstate Citizens for Equality,and One Nation. These organizations represent over a quarter of a million Americans citizens who have personally lost money,property, business, and basic civil rights as the result of aggressions by the Indian casino industry. (Not to mention the income counties and states lose to tax-exempt "Indian" casino business.)"
--- End quote ---
Yeagley
--- Quote ---"It's their people that created America, not Indians. Only a diabolically self-righteous liberal politician would take America out of the hands that created it, and give it to those who either lost it, or never had anything to do with it."
--- End quote ---
http://web.archive.org/web/20061206094805/http://www.badeagle.com/html/arent_pales.html
David Yeagley
--- Quote ---"As a Comanche Indian, I'm sensitive to this history. I believe the conqueror has a right to what he has conquered. No one owns the land. Only he who is strong enough to possess it will control it and the people living on it. That's the law of war."
--- End quote ---
Yeagley helped to make an offensive documentary about ndns .
There is information in NAFPS about this documentary in the link below;
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1523.0
There is more information on this documentary on a website maintained by Brent Micheal Davids
http://badeagledotorg.blogspot.com/2008/02/more-nonsense-from-yeagley.html
Quoting from the documentary
DAVID YEAGLEY
--- Quote ---“When the warrior was finally defeated, he became the reservation Indian??? (leaning forehead toward camera for added emphasis).
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---“The, the loser. The alcoholic. The depressed, keep-away-from-me, leave-me-alone???
--- End quote ---
DAVID YEAGLEY
Quoting from the above documentary
--- Quote ---“The idea that you can build a community with its own government, with its own economy, its own schools, its own language. That’s the idea that many Indian leaders are hoping for. They cut off themselves from participation, from successful positive participation in the world around them???
--- End quote ---
John Martin ( TS77 and LSM ) is a vocal supporter of Yeagley.
http://www.badeagle.com/cgi-bin/ib3/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?s=522cd00a62dd008611dcb24c5d5a400a;act=ST;f=53;t=6651;st=30
tallsoldier77
Posted: Nov. 26 2006
--- Quote ---“All I am saying is that the self-proclaimed "Fraud-hunter" posts some of the most slanderous and blatant lies I have ever seen, since I joined this forum.
He calls Dr. Yeagley every name in the book. He says that BE.com is a neo-nazi/white supremacist stronghold, I have never seen any post here that supported or re-affirmed the white separatists movement.
I thought this site was primarily concerned with all issues Indian. The personal attacks aimed at Dr. Yeagley were unprovoked and instigated by this person, "Al Carrol", who is not even an Indian, he is Irish/Mexican, I reserve the right to refrain from calling him an Apache, because he has not proven that he is in fact even enrolled with a specific tribe.
I finally decided it was time to call this "Al Carrol" person on his accusations of stating that this site is run by white-supremacists. When I did, Carrol, a so-called "Phd", could only respond with more lies and slander and hate directed at me.
I for one, think the guy is a coward, he has done absolutely nothing but spread a hate filled racist ideology on other forums, particularly his own "NAFPS" web-site. Indians don't care about frauds/rip-offs, most of the Indians I know are too busy trying to survive and hold on to the traditions and customs and ceremonies that were passed down to them from their valiant ancestors.
If this "Al Carrol" person were really concerned about the welfare of the Indian community, he would be using his "Phd." to teach, to help others attain knowledge and through a positive academic enlightenment attain self-esteem and self-reliance. This is what BE.com is all about.???
--- End quote ---
Al started a thread called "A Way to Spread the Truth About Yeagley" on the Indianz,com message board. Here is some of TS77 response to this;
http://www.indianz.com/board/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=24706
TALLSOLDIER77
Posted - 11/19/2006
speaking to Al carroll in reference to David Yeagley
--- Quote ---“Instead of posting useless, slanderous accusations about a man who could intellectually demolish you in a milli-second,???........
“I have the researched the misinformation you call fact, libel and lies, from a lying liar. ...???
--- End quote ---
http://www.indianz.com/board/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=24706
TALLSOLDIER77
Posted - 11/19/2006
--- Quote ---“The links you provide are all out-dated, biased, and circumstantial, provide a real political periodical, that can show how Dr. Yeagley has been a detriment to the "plight" of the American Indian???
--- End quote ---
http://64.62.196.98/board/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=30801
LAKOTA_SIOUXPERMAN
Posted - 02/15/2008
--- Quote ---???I have visited BadEagle.com and have not seen anything problematic or threatening to American Indians. Dr Yeagley is harmless. He has a right to voice his opinion just like that Irish hooligan Al Carroll. It's called the 1st Amendment.........???
“Then there is his obsession/stalking of this Dr Yeagley person. Dr Yeagley is a relatively benign proponent of Indian affairs, compared to Al, he is a saint. I read one of his articles and found nothing anti-Indian about it:???
--- End quote ---
http://64.62.196.98/board/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=30801
LAKOTA_SIOUXPERMAN
Posted - 02/15/2008
--- Quote ---“Why do you call Dr Yeagley's input on the History Channel garbage? Are you a Comanche historian?
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---“I think Dr Yeagley is harmless because instead of worrying about what he says in is blogs, you should be more concerned about real issues facing many tribes on the brink of cultural extinction. Dr Yeagley is a professional blogger. If you people stopped giving credence to what he writes then he would fade away into oblivion.
Now, the reason I don't like this Irish punk Carroll is because he began calling me a white supremacist. Unbelievable.???
--- End quote ---
In the link below is a screen shot where John Martin explains that he is out to discredit Al Carroll because he doesn't like what Al says about Yeagley
http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dcwzmv4g_18gpf8v2fd
Apparently Yeagley was actively encouraging Martin
http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dfbhnbn8_11hqk65xjp
David Yeagley
June 4 , 2007
--- Quote ---Tallsoldier I respect what you are doing. I trust you. Take a look at the sites, the "enemy" sites. See what they are doing. Carroll has already claimed Naiche as a friend, and welcomed him into the anti-Yeagley fold.
--- End quote ---
John Martin's strategies to undermine the information presented by Al Carroll and NAFPS mostly rely on outright lies, threats and sustained harassment.
John Martin harasses everyone who has blogs discrediting Yeagley.
Michel Shiningelk criticized Yeagley on her blog
http://michelleshiningelk.blogspot.com/
http://michelleshiningelk.blogspot.com/2007_03_01_archive.html
And TS77 falsely accused her of being a [serious untrue allegation removed]. She has published screen shots of these accusations in her blog;
--- Quote ---Friday, March 9, 2007
“What's more, the TS77 wants to cry and whine around like a little baby when he feels those he has attacked, attack him via his family -- talk about crying wolf and a tried and true bi-polar narcissistic hypocrite. When he posted photos of some children (see below) who he claims are on "his" soccer team and under that photo (see below) he calls me a [serious untrue allegation removed } (?), sick and twisted (?) and then threatens me to stay away from his children??? He is crazy! Deeeee deeeee deeeeee! The volume on the circus music playing in his head must be so loud it is clouding his ability to act rationally, or like a normal person. Uh, TS77, thanks for demonstrating that you are the pedophile here. And my, wouldn't the soccer moms of these children be interested in learning that you are using their children in your own sick, twisted and perverted manner - posting photos of unsuspecting and innocent people TS77, I mean really. You really are a dim wit. ....???
Posted by Michelle R. Shining Elk “
--- End quote ---
Brent Micheal Davids has a blog criticizing Yeagley
http://www.badeagle.org/
And Martin falsely accuses him like he did to Michelle
http://www.indianz.com/board/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=30801&whichpage=2
LAKOTA_SIOUXPERMAN
Posted - 02/18/2008
--- Quote ---“Isn't Brent Michael Davids the winkte/chubby gay guy who posted pics of little children on his website? Figures he and crazy Al are internet "bed-fellows". BMD as I am told he goes by is some morbidly obese pervert who [serious and untrue allegation removed]
--- End quote ---
LAKOTA_SIOUXPERMAN
Posted - 02/18/2008
--- Quote ---“The massive coronary waiting to happen Brent Michael Davids.
Miss Davids the winkte has been known to post pictures of little children on his website. So if you have any pics of kids on here, delete then ASAP! The guy is a fat [serious and untrue allegation removed].???
--- End quote ---
There is two sides to every story
http://www.indianz.com/board/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=31201&whichpage=2
BMD
Posted - 03/20/2008
--- Quote ---Actually, Martin posted the photos himself in some flicker-type internet site, and another blogger forwarded the links to badeagle.ORG (the truth-telling site, not the Yeagley blog), where NO photos appeared at any time, only TEXT links to photos briefly appeared.
Since the original uploads were by Martin himself, and posted on a public site, BadEagle.org had no legal or moral compulsion to remove the text links, but I personally removed the text links out of sympathy for Martin's request. Nothing more.
Contrarily, Martin left many death threats on my answering machine, his response to my kindness. Those wishing to hear the threats can simply go and listen to them, they are a matter of public record now:
--- End quote ---
More information on these death threats can be found in the link below;
http://www.brentmichaeldavids.com/johnmartincalls.html
BMD further explained why his blog linked to photos of Martin's family, below ;
http://www.indianz.com/board/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=31108&whichpage=2
BMD
Posted - 03/29/2008
--- Quote ---..........??? Martin posted the photos of his wife and children on a publicly-accessible site, and BadEagle.org posted links to those photos for a few days, until Martin called to request the links be removed. I removed them, out of respect and quite frankly kindness.
Again, the links were only posted as proof that Martin "is married with children" in response to his alleged extra-curricular MySpace activities.
BadEagle.org was sent complaints and screen shots of Martin's alleged activities with other females on MySpace. So BadEagle.org posted proof of his marital and family status — proof provided directly by Martin himself, and proof discovered by an "advanced" Indianz member I might add, who I have kept confidential even today.
That's all there was to the matter, and like I said, I acted out of kindness in removing them, as I was not bound morally nor legally to do anything; the actual photos were posted by Martin himself on a public site and I did not post the photos. I only provided a text link to find them, and only did so briefly.???
--- End quote ---
Seeing how Martin was talking to Michelle, using a different user name, so she did not know it was the same person as tallsoldier77, who had previously been abusive towards her , this explanation sounds believable.
Here is one example below.
http://www.indianz.com/board/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=29200
LAKOTA_SIOUXPERMAN
Posted - 11/04/2007
--- Quote ---I saw M. Shiningelk's pic. Her eyes are like devastating emerald stones, she is very pretty.. Michelle Shiningelk must have had a modeling career herself. What do you think Ajibik?
--- End quote ---
Al Carrol has a blog criticizing Yeagley
http://www.davidyeagley.org/
Al Carrol also gets repeatedly falsely accused same as BMD and Michelle
http://www.indianz.com/board/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=31074
LAKOTA_SIOUXPERMAN Posted - 03/06/2008 : 7:18:37 PM
--- Quote ---
“What's the matter Carroll, no shamans to stalk or is your Russian porn site down? I have been hearing rumors that you were mixed up in some [serious untrue allegation removed] scandal involving two female Asian students while you defrauded the Dept of Education by claiming Indian status to receive grants. So you are a cheat and a liar. Let's see you worm your way out of this. I received this e-mail from a very reliable source at ASU. They told me to let everyone here know the truth:???
AL CARROLL IS A PERVERTED [untrue allegation removed !!"
--- End quote ---
http://indianz.com/board/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=30801&whichpage=2
LAKOTA_SIOUXPERMAN
Posted - 02/19/2008
--- Quote ---“Al, you are the biggest coward/idiot on this forum. You know that your flabby friend posted pics of innocent little children on his stupid website. He is almost as big of a [untrue allegation removed]as you and your [untrue allegation removed]. You called me a white supremacist. Now prove it. You are so full of shyt. What kind of Apache are you supposed to be? Tell fatboy to stick to what he does best: BLOWING THINGS!???
--- End quote ---
http://www.indianz.com/board/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=31141&whichpage=1
LAKOTA_SIOUXPERMAN
Posted - 03/16/2008
--- Quote ---“Irony is a strange thing. Funny a person who comitted [ untrue serious allegation removed] while a grad student at ASU would even stoop so low to say such a thing. "Doctor" you should be ashamed of yourself. Al Carroll is the biggest Irish joker out there, Happy St. Paddy's day "doctor".
--- End quote ---
Martin also made threatening phone calls to Al Carroll's parents. More information can be read in the link below.
http://davidyeagley.blogspot.com/2007/03/yeagley-supporter-john-martin-issues.html
Another way Martin tries to discrediting the information provided by NAFPS is by saying this website is just a scam to make money.
http://www.indianz.com/board/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=24706
A Way to Spread the Truth About Yeagley
TALLSOLDIER77
Posted - 11/19/2006
--- Quote ---“I have the researched the misinformation you call fact, libel and lies, from a lying liar. "Carrol", be a man and step up to the plate, your "site" is woefully trying to solicit funds to "keep" your little "organization" alive. BAD EAGLE.COM does not have a pathetic, telethon like, "tote board" begging for cash like a lost derelict.???
--- End quote ---
TALLSOLDIER77
Posted - 11/19/2006
--- Quote ---“I do not trust this "Carrol" person because I have conducted my own research on this "cyber-journalist" and all I see is a man desperately trying to solicit money from people, Indian and non-Indian alike, I question his motives.
He is using Dr. Yeagley here to get people to "contribute" funds to keep his web-site, up and running, so to speak.???
--- End quote ---
Contrary to the misinformation John Martin likes to spread around, NAFPS only asks for donations once a year to cover the small yearly costs of having this website hosted
Below is some discussion of the fund raising that takes place on this website;
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=58.0
John Martin also likes to put an article in different message boards that was published in John Lekay's Heyoka magazine which asks
--- Quote ---IS AL CARROLL AN APACHE OR JUST
ANOTHER FRAUD?
--- End quote ---
He posted it here
http://groups.msn.com/5emo12bm422r6gp079tbf07ab5/general.msnw?action=get_message&mview=1&ID_Message=303&CType=1&CDir=-1
and here
http://groups.msn.com/THEFIGHTINGCHEYENNE/general.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=29965&LastModified=4675637314696474488
and here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Tallsoldier77
and here
http://64.62.196.98/board/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=30207&whichpage=3
and here
http://www.indianz.com/board/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=31201&whichpage=1
He accuses Al of not being of Apache descent , and of being of Mexican Irish descent . I don't think Martin likes Mexicans because he calls Al lots of rude things to do with his Mexican heritage like “Taco head??? and “beaner???. A few examples are below
http://www.indianz.com/board/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=30207&whichpage=4
LAKOTA_SIOUXPERMAN
Posted - 01/11/2008
--- Quote ---Have fun playing with yourself this weekend Chief Taco Bell.
--- End quote ---
http://www.indianz.com/board/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=24774
TALLSOLDIER77
Posted - 11/22/2006
--- Quote ---Carrol is a little Mexcian taco-head who pops pills to make his little wee wee enlarge.
--- End quote ---
Martin repeatedly tries to make it seem like it's just Al's personal idea that people who sell ceremonies or misrepresent themselves as elders or medicine people are doing something wrong. This isn't true at all.
Martin likes to spread stories to make Native people feel angry about the movie Spirits for Sale. The stories Martin spreads not only make Al look bad but he tries to make elders look bad too.
Martin first mentions this movie on Yeagley's message board
June 15 2007
Screen shot of TS77 on Yeagley's message board complaining about the film,
http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dfbhnbn8_21gmgr84gx
Some of the lies John Martin creates are designed to offend the general public and some more specifically are targeted to offend Native people.
Like the article published by John Martin quoted from below ;
This web link no longer works, but screen shots of this article can be seen at the bottom of it ;
http://forums.argusleadermedia.com/viewtopic.php?p=77273&
TALLSOLDIER77
Posted: Aug Fri 03, 2007 Beware of racist film "Spirits for Sale".
--- Quote ---My question is: WHY IS THIS SWEDISH LADY (ANNIKA BANFIELD) SO INTERESTED IN EXHUMING A SACRED LAKOTA PIPE?
I think she just wants to make a big impression on her Euro-trash buddies and others who have been exploiting Lakota Spirituality for decades.
Yeah right, like the average Lakota can afford to just jump on an airplane and fly to Sweden to see her stupid film "Spirits for Sale".
MESSAGE FROM GRASS ROOTS AIM
Lakota Grass Roots American Indian Movement leaders have received words that Arvol Looking Horse and paula Horne Mullen are going to have a showing of the Sacred Bundle at 2:00 PM at the Looking Horse complex in the Community of Green Grass on the Cheyenne River Sioux Indian reservation in North central South Dakota.
Urgency in this message is that they can't remember where exactly Arvol buried the Bundle,
( in his hectic schedule and world trips) Since Grass Has grown over the spot where Arvol buried it.
Warrior Societies, Tokala Societies and Akicita Societies are to bring their shovels and report there ASAP Monday morning to begin digging up the property to help locate it.
--- End quote ---
I have to give Martin some credit in this case as he did include the response from Annika who refuted these strange stories and accusations.
But then he said more stuff to make everyone who made the film loose credibility and try and make this film into a big controversy .
TALLSOLDIER77
Joined: 03 Aug 2007
Posted: Aug Mon 06, 2007 RE: Selling Sprirts
--- Quote ---Annika and some fake Apache named Al Carroll apparently swindled some Sioux elders to be in their film. Al Carroll is notorious for running an anti-Indian hate site that was just recently shut down. The guy is a bigger fraud than Ward Churchill.
I don't believe anything that Annika Banfield or Al Carroll has to say, since both are obviously trying to rip-off American Indian ceremony, especially from the Sioux.
--- End quote ---
Screen shot of TS77 once again trying to discredit both this film and the many traditional elders who made it.
http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dfbhnbn8_2858dkwpcv
Screen shot of TS77trying to discredit Al Carroll and the film Spirits for Sale.
http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dfbhnbn8_30fd4xm7gq
http://www.indianz.com/board/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=31219
LAKOTA_SIOUXPERMAN
Posted - 03/18/2008
--- Quote ---“Why can’t Al Carroll exploit his own??? tribe???? What is an admitted non-Indian doing commenting on Native Spirituality in the first place? How come Al won’t reveal his Apache “ancestry? This Swedish lady, Annika Banfield is exploiting an old Lakota man, Looking Horse. She and Al don’t give a damn about real Lakota issues, i.e. addiction, domestic violence, unemployment, teen suicide, hopelessness etc; That’s why she sent your CD back Mr. Luke.
Mrs. Banfield is just another euro new age Indian groupie. Her and “doctor??? Carroll are making a mockery of and desecrating Lakota Spirituality. Mrs. Banfield is now publicly lamenting because she was not able to recoup her financial losses because her film flopped.???
--- End quote ---
NAFPS does provide information about both Native and non native people if they are selling ceremonies , if their tribal leaders say this isn't OK and Martin frequently tries to get people upset about this by saying NAFPS is a bunch of non native people telling Native people what to do and that is “attacking “ Native people.
But, many or all the individuals Martin has defended have been non native exploiters. For example he posted the complaints of a nonnative exploiter over on Indianz.
http://www.indianz.com/board/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=24774
EXPOSING THE "FRAUD" HUNTERS. "NAFPS".
TALLSOLDIER77
Posted-11/22/2006
--- Quote ---The Standing Bear has recently been attacked by a group whose acronym is "NAFPS", for New Age Frauds and Plastic Shamans. Their site address is www.newagefraud.org.
To learn more about what happened when I challenged their authority to sit in judgment on me, please scroll down this page to "Commentary Regarding the NAFPS Attack on the Center......."
--- End quote ---
Below is one of the things this non native woman was doing that NAFPS was objecting to
http://web.archive.org/web/20060716170816/www.thestandingbear.com/events.htm
“August 18 - 27, 2006
--- Quote ---Native American Teachings and Private Consultations with Cherokee Medicine Chief Weylin Lighteagle
Saturday & Sunday, August 19 & 20 Men's Teaching Circle and Sweat Lodge Ceremony
Cost: $250???
--- End quote ---
This is what John Martin had to say about this
TALLSOLDIER77
Posted 11/22/2006
--- Quote ---OK, let's expose the "real" Al Carrol, for who he really is. A self-proclaimed Mexican/Irishman of Mescalero Apache decent. Big Al, as he is known, is one of the founding Fathers of the "New Age Frauds and Plastic Shamans Organization or "NAFPS".
I visited the "NAFPS" website, what a joke, they call themselves "the" Native watch-dog group, who ask for your help (MONEY) so that they can continue their vigilant work on "outing" Native Frauds.
--- End quote ---
Martin also supported John Lekay, an Englishman with an on line magazine that promoted many people falsely claiming to be entitled to a position of authority within NDN society, when these positions were only recognized by non native people.
John Martin supported John Lekay, in pressuring the company that hosted NAFPS into shutting down .
The link below goes to publication called Native Cultural Activists Silenced Again which has a long list of comments . Those disagreeing with the activism of NAFPS are John Lekay, his supporters and TS77 AKA (John Martin ) saying many things to discredit Al Carroll, NAFPs and even the elders who are trying to defend their cultural practices from corruption.
In a couple comments Martin says the main reason the NAFPS got shut was because of Al Carroll's web blog on David Yeagley
http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2007/08/06/18439218.php?show_comments=1#18440799
--- Quote ---See ya in Lawton Brent.............lol
by Bullet proof vest
Wednesday Aug 15th, 2007
“.........Carroll is now under investigation by the LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT for, among other things "identitiy theft". He has revealed the personal info, i.e. addresses, phone numbers, places of employemnt of his victims. Al Carroll is a cultural menace, an extremely mentally disturbed individual. He has done more damage to the Native American Community than any other racist in history.
Go to http://www.davidyeagley.org and get a taste of what Carroll is dishing out. This is the primary reason why he was kicked off the internet, he will of course blame and name others, however, when the dust settles, it is Carroll who stands alone, a beacon to those who enjoy bashing American Indians.
John Martin (Enrolled Oglala, Lakota
--- End quote ---
) http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dfbhnbn8_33hhs666g7
http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dfbhnbn8_35gw2w7dht
--- Quote ---“Carroll and his bed fellow Brent Micheal Davids have been at this game for an entire decade . What have they done for the plight of the American Indian ? What contributions have they made to assit Indian people in finding employment, overcoming addiction , domestic violence, racism ect?
Al Carroll is a snake who will attack anyone with his outlandish thories ( see David Yeagley .org )???
--- End quote ---
http://www.badeagle.com/cgi-bin/ib3/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?s=f7fb624b19f9051302e2c32d6b984765;act=ST;f=19;t=7951
Talsoldier77
--- Quote ---“I told you guys that nut Al Carroll was breaking the law. I can see him now, crying over his laptop, lamenting like a woman.
NOTE: TYPE IN www.newagefraud.org AND SEE WHAT YOU GET!
THANKS TO JOHN LEKAY AND DR. YEAGLEY WE FINALLY NAILED THAT MEXICAN S.O.B.???
--- End quote ---
John Martin is not an Elder or Spiritual leader.
Here is what the true Elders and recognized Spiritual leaders have to say about this ,
http://web.archive.org/web/20051215184610/users.pandora.be/gohiyuhi/articles/index.htm
Instead Martin chooses to support non native exploiters like John Lekay , and Scarlet Kinney.
(edited to try and fix overlong links but I can't figure it out, and 1 wrong link )
Moma_porcupine:
John Lekay joined NAFPS under the user name Marlon . He is an Englishman who has an online magazine.
John Lekay's online magazine Heyoka had a thread to discuss it in research needed
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1029.0
Lekay /Marlon first posted here
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1194.0;all
About this guy
http://www.heyokamagazine.com/HEYOKA.8.MUSIC.Tommy.2.htm
Thomas Lighteningbolt
--- Quote ---“I was made a part of are "Ancients", they have been walking this continent for thousands and in some cases millions of years. Those people at NAFPS don't have the first clue about true mysticism. There are documented cases of mystics being able to "Bi-Locate" (to be in two places at the same time)! My point being is that if some one such as my teacher reveals himself to be Fools Crow it CAN be real! Several people I know have told me that Fools Crow has come to different people in different TIMES throughout history. Does that make him phony???
His" teacher " is apparently in some other dimension but Thomas is sure it is Fools Crow.
--- End quote ---
( what is below is quoted from the original web page – the word bizarre is now removed. )
Thomas Lighteningbolt
--- Quote ---“Thank you for sending me a copy of that "Green Grass Proclamation" by Arvol Looking Horse. You are right, that is BIZZAR! How can he say those things? No non card carrying Indian should be allowed to carry eagle feathers? What about the Indians who have been railroaded out of their birth rights by the Government AND other Indians ie: Indians who have and are kicking out their own tribal members so they can selfishly hoard the Casino money for themselves (1,000,000,000$ goes further between 200 Indians than 2000 Indians)!
Further more, A Sun Dance leader once said "how can we not let people of other races into that arbor when all four colors of all four races hang in that Sun Dance arbor" White, Yellow, Black, Red. I am shocked that Arvol would say other races "keep out (basically)" Racism knows no bounds.
An elder said that proclamation is "evil" and "crazy", He said these people are "crazy". And who the heck is Arvol to say anything about people selling the "sacred" when he himself was (or still is) selling copies of the sacred "Star Book" ON LINE! “
--- End quote ---
http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dcwzmv4g_20fj7w77c8
Why would anybody think it matters if someone says an unnamed elder who may not even exist, said the real Lakota Spiritual leaders are evil and crazy?
Thomas Lighteningbolt
--- Quote ---???That proclamation is ALL politics and my teacher said that politics is not Native American, it is a "white thing". Remember in our first interview I mentioned that people try to dictate who can and can't carry medicine, or be a medicine person? Politics! This whole situation is proving my point to a tee! These people are putting themselves in the place of the Great Creator! “
John Lekay
“What I do see is a pattern that Al Carroll/educated Indian attacks anyone who seems to not to fit into his compartment of what he believes an authentic medicine man should be. It looks like he took it upon himself to be the new age Tomás de Torquemada. "The hammer of heretics". A part of It appears its based on this Green Grass proclamation Why would anyone want the Bush Cheney administration telling people how to pray. That's bizarre.???
--- End quote ---
(again I am quoting the original webpage which has removed the allegation that this is 'bizarre'. a screen shot of the original statements are in the link below)
http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dcwzmv4g_16czcz9qhf
If he thinks the concern that these traditional ways be protected and maintained by Native people living in Native communities is bizarre, Lekay must not know any real elders. it's actually a very normal concern.
Another person Lekay was promoting is Suzanne Dupree
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=604.0
Dupree disagrees with the way many Lakota Elders want to protect and maintain their culture and ceremonies and Dupree claims that she is the rightful authority on Lakota Spiritual matters, even though she did not grow up in the Lakota community and few if any Lakota people support her claims . ( Not one who does has yet been named and in order for these claims to be recognized to would take quite a few.)
Her reasoning is very long , detailed and is a mixture of facts, speculation presented as facts , speculation dismissing facts she doesn't like, and outright misinformation. Her whole long explanation seems designed to overwhelm peoples critical thinking abilities.
Dupree has done a lot to try to discredit Arvol Lookinghorse, and his position of authority , insisting she should be the one doing his job.
The article below, was written by one of Lekay's affiliates , and it tries to spread rumors to discredit a film about the protection of ceremonies which features many Native people and Spiritual leaders explaining why this is a problem. One of the people in the film is Arvol Lookinghorse.
http://my2point2cents.wordpress.com/2007/08/30/spirits-for-sale/
Some of Dupree's (Looking Back Woman AKA LBW )'s comments can be read in the article above , and more can be seen in what Dupree ( LBW) posted in the online Rapid City Journal. This can no longer be found online but a saved upload of the web page showing her attempts to discredit Arvol Looking horse can still be seen here
http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dcwzmv4g_14cd8ffdhh
One good thing Marlon/Lekay did was he posted some correspondence between Dupree and the Smithsonion Inst.. The response to Dupree shows she was questioning the accuracy of the information recorded there which supported Arvol Lookinghorse's position of Spiritual leadership.
Dupree apparently persuaded a historian to revise the history recorded in the Smithsonian Inst. - and to allow her to tell him how it should be revised
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1197.0
Marlon
Re: Dupree Pt 2
Reply #6 on: June 01, 2007
Quoting a letter from Ray DeMallie of the Smithsonian Institute, speaking to Dupree;
--- Quote ---“Later this spring, after our semester ends, I plan to make a trip to Washington during which I will have the opportunity to visit the National Anthropological Archives. In the meantime, I will write to Rob Leopold and send him a revised and streamlined catalog entry, with the request that he substitute it for the old one. Before I do so, I am attaching it below for your comments, to see if you think it is appropriate.
I will ask that this be deleted from the catalog entry. “
--- End quote ---
Just before Lekay posted this correspondence thinking it was proof of Dupree's claims, Dupree posting under the user name LBW and mentioned that people should check out the archived information
Dupree Pt 2
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2007
LBW
--- Quote ---for more archival information that was collected between 1964-1967, that I had no way of manipulating...go read it for yourself, and you will see with your own eyes where the deception started, and by what family
--- End quote ---
.
What was removed from the archives was all references to the Lookinghorse family as it was recorded in relationship to the duties that were passed to Arvol Looking horse.
You can see a saved copy of the Smithsonian web page before Dupree appears to have persuaded the Smithsonian to change it, in the link below
http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dcwzmv4g_0cn3th92w
And below is the page after all references to the Lookinghorse family have been deleted
http://siris-archives.si.edu/ipac20/ipac.jsp?uri=full=3100001~!92671!0
Lekay also had interviewed Kevin Annette and was quite outraged when NAFPS members pointed out that many Native people felt Annette had misused their personal information and their trust . A thread explaining these concerns is in the link below ;
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1231.0
Lekay was also promoting a guy who advertises himself as a psychotherapist.
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1206.0;all
This psychotherapist got mad at Al for questioning his professional training and some of his personal beliefs that were expressed in his writing , so he wrote an article to make Al look like he had a big psychological problem. Part of it is quoted below.
http://www.heyokamagazine.com/HEYOKA.8.JayeLaValleLETTER.htm
To John Le Kay, Editor Heyoka Magazine - July 03, 2007 - 2:00 pm CST – Jaye A. La Vallee
--- Quote ---“I see how Alton Carroll focuses on sexual deviance and sexual perpetration issues… this along with talks of violence and threat cause me deep concern because it appears that he has a deeper sexual issues, possibly unresolved disturbances from being victimized or perpetrated as young person - homeless, surviving and living the street life. He displays through his accusations that sexual issues are deep and strong on his agenda and that he relies on this deviance as a way of shaming others, likely to deflect his own history. “
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---???Like so many homeless children of ethnic dark-skinned minorities, struggling for their identity, especially ones who were separated from their roots, these tend to suffer shame even more deeply. From disconnected abusive parents. They, we are at higher risk for sexual deviance… because of family dysfunction and sexual and violence issues and the loss of nurturing and sustaining affection.???
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---???His emphasis and referral to other people’s sexual deviance issues of others leads me to feel he is suffering with and from this issue. As well, he offers – no solution and has taken one him self.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---“I feel that Alton Carroll has unresolved deep-seeded sexual deviance issues and got then as most often have, through a troubled, violent, alcoholic childhood… in the family of origin and that he probably went on to cope and survive abuse, by doing what was necessary and required when he was living – the homeless life in the streets… I believe this is where he was forced to sell his own plasma and take part in other dangerous street life high-risk situations.???
--- End quote ---
I thought psychologists are supposed to avoid personal relationships and emotional entanglements with people they are applying their knowledge to . Otherwise there is always a danger of projection of self onto others.
When NAFPS members continued to insist that only Native communities have the right to decide who is authoritative and who is entitled to positions of Spiritual leadership and we would not agree with Lekay's selections, Lekay began making complaints to the company hosting NAFPS that this website was libeling him and the people he was promoting as American Indian Spiritual leaders.
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1265.0
John Martin / Tallsoldier77 registered here as Steve_w , and began supporting Lekay .
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1255.0
Lekay even did an article in his Heyoka magazine titled “John Martin on NAFPS???
It is not on line anymore but it was copied and is still posted here
http://ghostchild.org/index.php?s=cc86efe294c0711f82db5c2bc08331e8&showtopic=542
--- Quote ---JOHN MARTIN ON NAFPS
???This interaction is with a man named John Martin. A full blooded Lakota who went on the forum under the pseudonym Steve W to question Al Carroll about his hate speech, libeling others and his claims of being a Mescalero apache. Al Carroll was claming Steve W was John LeKay.
--- End quote ---
Lekay defended John Martin's buddy David Yeagley .
http://heyokamagazine.com/HEYOKA.9.JL.Response.htm
John Lekay
--- Quote ---
???Or when really pushed, he will fabricate and say that full blooded Lakota John Martin has threatened his parents as another excuse for not giving his mother's maiden name. Then he tops it off with labeling him a white supremacist.
He has also used the same strategy on David Yeagley who is Comanche. Like a mantra, he repeats these words and labels hoping they will stick. In Mr. Yeagley's case, Mr. Carroll has even taken out a website using Yaegley's name. Another of Mr. Carrol's associates, called Brent Michael David, has done the same.
This is how fanatical and extreme he has become that he would even use another person's name in any way he can to attract attention to himself. '
--- End quote ---
Lekay also recruited a woman named Robin to give him an interview.
Robin AKA Raven AKA Raven-walkingstick AKA Kwa-kwen and her friend Joyce aldridge /Troxell AKA Angela AKA walking-soft AKA weheli were members of NAFPS for about a year until they became involved in what seemed to be a petty dispute over Al allowing someone they didn't like to join NAFPS. Because of this disagreement they both began spreading around a rather distorted version of what had happened . As it turned out it's unlikely either of these women were who they claimed to be , and their purpose in their participation here appears to have been a lot more about role playing on line, than a commitment to protect vulnerable people from frauds, or what they claimed as their own people and culture from exploitation.
The full story about this dispute can be found in the link below;
http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dcwzmv4g_12chwns5jm
More information on Robin's friend Joyce can be found in this next link
http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dcwzmv4g_13g5jf699j
Lekay's complaints to the company that hosted NAFPS scared them and for about a week NAFPS was shut down.
Tallsoldier77 bragged about this on David Yeagley's BadEagle message board, attributing this to John Lekay and David Yeagley.
http://www.badeagle.com/cgi-bin/ib3/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?s=f7fb624b19f9051302e2c32d6b984765;act=ST;f=19;t=7951
Tallsoldier77
--- Quote ---
“I told you guys that nut Al Carroll was breaking the law. I can see him now, crying over his laptop, lamenting like a woman.
NOTE: TYPE IN www.newagefraud.org AND SEE WHAT YOU GET!
THANKS TO JOHN LEKAY AND DR. YEAGLEY WE FINALLY NAILED THAT MEXICAN S.O.B.???
--- End quote ---
When NAFPS was shut down, an article called Native Cultural Activists Voices Silenced Again was written and published on an indymedia site, and Lekay and his friends continued to post comments arguing that the people they wanted to promote were not frauds and what real NDNS and elders were saying was wrong.
http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2007/08/06/18439218.php?show_comments=1#18440799
John Lekay kept insisting he had been libeled by NAFPS members because they pointed out his dominating behavior and assumptions of entitlement were racist ...
After a short time of NAFPS being off line, another service provider was found ....
But many of the stories and lies Lekay told are still online or copied and published in other websites .
Moma_porcupine:
As I mentioned yesterday , I edited reply #4 to include more information today. I wanted to keep this in something of a chronological order, and yesterday I didn't have it together to include everything in reply #4 . Sorry to do things a bit backwards ..but maintaining some semblence of a sequence in the order of these 3 posts above, will hopefully be a bit less mind boggling..
Moma_porcupine:
OK , I got it more together now ...
I see Betsy Ashby is posting over on Indianz under the name "Guardian" and she has now provided a link to the aforementioned personal ad which is still in the web archive , and which has Al's old email address. I won't post the link here but people can find it in the link below , if they gotta see it.
http://indianz.com/board/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=34966
I notice in her post about this , Betsy has altered the original ad , omitting the part where it says the mans name is "Carl" , and she neglects to point out that the way this website is set up , absolutely anyone can post an ad using anybodies email address. The archived page where people posted from is below.
http://web.archive.org/web/20000229051740/http://www.libchrist.com/interact/signlcintro.html
As I also see her bragging about how much she knows about cyberspace and the holes in security it seems odd she would neglect to point out that anybody who felt like embarrassing Al could place this ad.
http://indianz.com/board/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=34741&whichpage=1
Guardian
--- Quote ---It really is easy to install the "ignore poster" feature:
(snip)
I could do it for them in a few minutes with their permission. Actually, I could do it for them in a few minutes without their permission ...but that would be very rude...not to mention criminal ROFL (this is an intentional funny :-)
--- End quote ---
page 2
Guardian
--- Quote ---Well ...if I ever decided to take off my White Hat, you KNOW whose platter would get slagged first! ROFL
Admin probably disabled html and the [ img ] tag for security reasons. I do not allow any "get" commands on my forums either. There are MANY reasons not to allow cross site requests. For instance, each time someone loads a topic containing a image hosted on my server, my site stats bot records their IP, browser, etc.
You can redirect users, steal log-in details, etc. with cross site scripting. There are other ways to prevent tag script injection, but just disabling the img tag feature is the easiest.
--- End quote ---
page 2
Guardian
--- Quote ---White Hats absolutely DO NOT engage in unauthorized hacking, and are the exact polar opposite of Black Hats. White Hats help secure machines AGAINST hacking attempts. There are White Hat clubs where members hack on each others boxes with PERMISSION, both to learn, and to expose vulnerabilities in other club member's networks. Frequently White Hats are hired to attack a system, by that system's owner, because the owner knows the White Hat will not leave a destructive payload.
--- End quote ---
I have to wonder why Betsy would continue to draw attention to this peculiar ad , when it obviously could have been placed by anyone , and Al has clearly let her know it was not placed by him. I have never seen anything in Al actions that suggests he secretly wants more than one wife , or that he ever uses traditions out of context. Al tells me he did not post this , and I see no reason not to believe him.
What seems a lot more likely is someone maliciously placed that ad in order to embarrass and discredit him. Betsy seems like a smart lady . Presumably she is aware of this.
What I find most peculiar is why is Betsy Ashby going out of her way to discredit the work done by NAFPS when she claims to care about exposing frauds ?
Surely Betsy is smart enough to realize when she unfairly discredits people who support the protection of ceremonies , she is indirectly damaging respect for the Elders who are struggling to protect their ceremonies?
She seems to be justifying her hatred of NAFPS by claiming she is better because she makes sure she has documentation , but in the thread in the first link , Betsy also admits to defending Brooke Edwards , though now she admits to not knowing how to tell if a tribal ID card is a fake . And as already pointed out , when she doesn't like someone she appears very willing to ignore obvious information that casts her so called documentation into doubt.
I agree that people posting in NAFPS all make mistakes occaisionally, and these mistakes should be rectified even if we don't like some stuff about the people involved. But it seems odd Betsy would have such a enduring grudge against Al for allegedly mistaking Brooke E for Brooke S , as she herself also makes mistakes sometimes. Why would she carry such a grudge if she really wholeheartedly supports exposing frauds - which is the basic work done by NAFPS?
Something is not adding up here....
Oh... and I see some what I quoted from in my previous post on Betsy Ashby has been removed . Perhaps she realized some of what she said did not reflect favorably on her. I did save the evidence this was there , if anyone needs it ...
frederica:
Brook Medicine Eagle has been on fraud list for a long time. Betsy Ashby goes from list to list trying to get something started. Most of the time she leaves when no one pays attention to her. She's non-NDN, claims to be some sort of Pagan and it seems she does the same to them. http://www.tylwythteg.com/OUTERBOS/plagerize21.html You have to scroll about half of the page to find their comments about her.
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