Lakota Leathers

[clearwater]

I am a newbie and had signed up here with the intent of only posting to one thread. However, I am a musician and came across Lakota Leathers, which is based in Sevierville, TN and started by non-Indians. Their relationship to the Pine Ridge Lakotas is described here:

http://lakotaleathers.com/About_Us.html

This company makes musical instrument straps. Their straps seem nice, but the company has not responded to any of my emails. Before I buy one of these straps, is this for real? Are there Lakotas here at this site who can validate that these straps are actually made by Lakotas on the Pine Ridge reservation? If so, I'll buy one. If not, who are these guys?

As part of their desire to assist the Lakota people, in addition to employing them making straps, they accept donations directly and then pass 100% of the donations to the Lakotas. From their website:

While Lakota Leathers is NOT a charity, we do all we can to help the Lakota people. The reason we are not a charity is because we want as little government involvement in this endeavor as possible. We want the Lakota to be in business for themselves and not be constantly receiving charity, but actually earning a living. I have been contacted many times by many different people, however, asking how they can help, and who they can donate to. While we are not a 501c3 tax deductable organization, we are in constant contact with the Lakota and we can ALWAYS put 100% of any amount you'd like to donate to good use. We assure you that any amount you donate will go directly to a family in need and no 'middle man' of any sort will be involved. In the past we have helped families devistated by house fires, the extreme cold weather, and black mold. Your donations are appreciated. Thank you for caring, Kenny

The company has existed 2 years and they claim to have done great things:

So far proceeds from strap sales have helped pay for hospital visits, groceries, wood stoves, and many other essentials of daily life. While we are not a charity, our products provide a means of sustanance for an otherwise bleak future. By purchasing a strap from Lakota Leathers, you help keep the Lakota traditions alive as well as helping a family in need.

Is this legitimate? If so these are nice folks for sure and I commend them.

Moderators: If this is an inappropriate topic for this forum, please delete this thread, with my apologies.

Many thanks.

[Ingeborg]

Just from a look at that website, I'd say there are a few inconsistencies:

On the start page, they say the company is Pine Ridge based:

http://lakotaleathers.com/Home.html

Lakota Leathers is a company based on the Pine Ridge Indian reservation in South Dakota.  We manufacture the finest guitar, banjo and mandolin straps available using native Bison (American Buffalo) and Elk hides exclusively.

On their contact site, the address given is in Tennessee:

http://lakotaleathers.com/Contact.html

Lakota Leathers
537 South Schrader Rd.
Sevierville TN 37876
(865)963-9303

This matches with what they mention in their About Us section:

http://lakotaleathers.com/About_Us.html

About us
Lakota Leathers was founded in 2008 by Kenny & Phyllis Bohling of Sevierville, TN after repeated trips to the Pine Ridge reservation in SD.

So if I understand this correctly, the company should provide documentation for the items they sell being made by native persons. From what I see on their site, they may or may not provide such documents, since they do not make any mention of this...

The site also asks for donations:

While Lakota Leathers is NOT a charity, we do all we can to help the Lakota people. The reason we are not a charity is because we want as little government involvement in this endeavor as possible.

Errrm, wrong reason given, I reckon. What 'little government involvement' there is in a 501c3 makes sure that monies donated end up at the appropriate places, plus it will bring about a tax exempt status which a company of course will not have

We want the Lakota to be in business for themselves and not be constantly receiving charity, but actually earning a living.

Sounds good, but then they should be in a position to publish photos of the workers they employ or whom they buy from.

I have been contacted many times by many different people, however, asking how they can help, and who they can donate to. While we are not a 501c3 tax deductable organization, we are in constant contact with the Lakota and we can ALWAYS put 100% of any amount you'd like to donate to good use. We assure you that any amount you donate will go directly to a family in need and no 'middle man' of any sort will be involved.

Strictly speaking, there is at least one 'middle man' involved – the company owner. Please take due note he doesn't mention you'll obtain any proof of where your donation went to.

[clearwater]

Thank you Ingeborg, I noticed those inconsistencies as well. At the bottom of the "About Us" page is a photo of Lakotas, I presume?

(There is a video on their homepage, however, my internet connect does not allow me to play it. Perhaps that video will fill in the blanks here?)

It's possible all this is legit, but I do wonder about the "there is no middle man, send it to us and we'll get it to them" kind of thinking. That's just plain odd to me. Why not just provide the address of the rez and have folks direct donations there?

I'm hoping that leather artists from the Pine Ridge rez will chime in. Maybe someone can name these artists or knows more about Lakota Leather?

The last email I sent them about a month ago, I asked who they were affiliated with and got no reply.

The musicians who endorse the products include internationally-acclaimed musicians. They are named and depicted on the site. None of the craftspeople are. I also find that odd.

It still could be legit. Odd, but legit?

[Ingeborg]

(There is a video on their homepage, however, my internet connect does not allow me to play it. Perhaps that video will fill in the blanks here?)

No, it's a video of the song he mentions in his text - "Three chiefs", that's all.

The last email I sent them about a month ago, I asked who they were affiliated with and got no reply.

No reply in a month is a bit long, I'd say. But as sh!t happens, you might perhaps resend the mail. Errrm, wait - you said this was your *last* e-mail. Oh.

[clearwater]

Their straps seem nice, but the company has not responded to any of my emails.

No reply in a month is a bit long, I'd say. But as sh!t happens, you might perhaps resend the mail. Errrm, wait - you said this was your *last* e-mail. Oh.

Several emails were sent over several weeks in November and got no replies. The "last" one before posting here was about a month ago. I emailed them again after making this post (and reading your reply) to give them the benefit of the doubt for sure. I did tell them I have made this post here on this website, and I am not being malicious at all but since the had not replied I had these lingering questions. I made some suggestions to them in my email today. You will see from my posts here I am not being malicious, just inquiring. I would be delighted to see therir legitimacy validated by other persons, not just themselves. But these questions did arise. You yourself apparently see the same things I do and have some of the same questions.

My question(s) of them are appropriate: can you please tell me who you are affiliated with on the Pine Ridge Reservation? I first emailed them this question due to these inconsistencies about how they presented themselves. They never replied.

And if my memory serves, is there some sort of protocol or procedure for Indian-made crafts to have some sort of documentation? You mentioned that in your first reply. That seems to ring a bell with me. Anyway, if they are legit (which would be good) maybe they can be a bit more forthcoming on their website, that's all.

I indicated in my email to them that whatever reply they make I will post here if appropriate. There are "good Samaritans" everywhere and maybe these folks have good hearts and are well intended and doing the right thing (if only in a goofy way). That's the story they're telling, but there are, in my opinion, some significant omissions that make these questions come up. If they are legit, a few edits and additions to their site could go a long way toward clearing that up. If they are not legit, well who would like that?

Sevierville, TN is very close to Gatlinburg, TN and both are tourist attractions and have lots of Indian shops there. There are lots of talented leather and bead workers there and any artisan there could be making these straps for all I know.

Am I out of line in making these inquiries and making this post? If so, I'll go away, no problem. There's lots of strap companies out there.

Thank you.

[clearwater]

UPDATE: I just received this reply from Lakota Leathers:

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From:   
"bbanjoboy@---.com" <bbanjoboy@---.com>
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Hello,
I did respond to your previous email, but I've been having some email issues. I am away from my desk, and will respond more properly when I return.
Let me quickly say that I appreciate your concerns, and certainly understand your reasons for them. It is good to know that you care about the Lakota.
Thank you for your interest.
Kenny
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

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That is good.

[clearwater]

UPDATE: Here is Lakota Leather's reply:

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Re: Lakota Leathers
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From:   
"Bbanjoboy@---.com" <Bbanjoboy@---.com>
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Hello again,
First, let me say once again that I truly appreciate your emails and regret that you did not receive my previous responses.
It warms my heart to know that there are people like you who care enough not only to question the legitimacy of my efforts, but also have the decency  to contact me directly. Let me say thank you for that. I personally have also witnessed the exploitation that you refer to. Additionally, there are the items like the $3 dream catchers in your local conveinience store which are made in China.. It makes my blood boil....
In any case, to try to answer a few of your questions, here are some answers. I'm sure that you'll have more, so feel free to ask away...Additionally, if you know one of my present or former bandmates, I'm sure that they will attest to my true intentions.
Here goes...
First, my story on our 'about us' page is as straight to the point as I can get, so I'll not waist my efforts going over that again. Additionally, you can click up www.knoxivi.com and click the link to the 'Shine Sisters" to see a live interview of myself discussing what we do.
As for the business, let me say that it is precisely that. A business. Being a business is something that we chose to do instead of being a charity. I thought very seriously about even putting the 'donation' addition to the website, and I believe after your concerns, I should just eliminate it. I will put a link to a good friend of mine Kathy Price of the Mission of Love instead. She builds homes for the Lakota and even though there are other needs that I know my website could help, I don't want to raise any suspicions about this company or it's intentions, and your email just reinforces this thought. Kathy is as close to a saint as I have met on this earth, and I encourage you to check out her site. I believe it's www.missionoflove.org If not, I'm sure you can google it. I first encountered her back in June on my last trip to Pine Ridge. There is no government crap involved with her, just true concern and love for the Lakota and other people across the globe..
Anyhow, back to the business. When this thing started, I would take dreamcatchers, hair barrets, etc. from my friends on the reservation to sell for them at my CD table. Because of the $3 dreamcathers for sale at your local 7-11, it was hard to get more than $10 for these items. I felt very bad sending these guys just $10 for something that they worked hours on.. Then they couldn't always afford the beads, or leather etc, and it wasn't raising very much money.. The products were basically 'trinkets' and had no real use in todays world. I had a buffalo hide strap on my banjo for years.. It wasn't native made, but it was very strong, soft, and it looked like the day I bought it.. So that's when the wheels started turning.. One thing led to the other and I started contacting the same people who used to make the dreamcatchers and medicine wheels to see if they would be interested and  capable of making some straps...
Well, most of them didn't even know what a banjo was, they certainly had no money to purchase leather, no computers, and no tools to manufacture these things..
I began discussing these issues with my family, and together we decided to fund the entire operation. This is where I begin to feel uncomfortable about discussing things because you wouldn't be asking these questions about any other type of business I might be involved in,  but here goes..
We have invested over $25,000 into this venture, very little of which has been returned. I don't feel the need to discuss how much any certain individuals are being paid, or their names/faces, any more than Coca-Cola would feel the need to give out there secret formula. I'm not doing this so that I can "Fleece" the Lakota, quite to the contrary, it is actually my family that sometimes feels 'fleeced' but that is OK because our reward is not financial. I am withholding the names of these people for several other reasons:
1) They each have at least $1000 worth of leather etc. in their homes at any given time. I don't feel comfortable that this be common knowledge on the reservation. If you are familiar with conditions out there, you will understand why.
2) I have a lot of money invested in this company, and I feel a need to protect the people that are working for me as well as my own personal as well as my families monetary investments. Quite simply, we do need to recoup what we have invested. Like I tried to explicately state on my website, this is not a charity. Suffice it to say that each of my independent contractors can easily EARN $50 per hour. A wage which they deserve and be proud of. It's all up to them and the public. If they are willing to work, and the public is willing to purchase these products, then this can continue.
That being said, I don't feel comfortable in giving out the names of my independent contractors any more than you would if you had a business in China, Texas, Argentina, Brazil, or any other place.
I don't want to be mailicous to you, but you could be a competitor, you could go in and 'steal' my contractors' which I have taught how to make the specific requirements for our strap designs, and then there are the materials which I have already purchased which quite honestly could be sold without my knowledge. Thousands of dollars worth. I know and love each of my contractors, but they have no financial investment in any of these materials. While I do trust them, I do not feel any need to make these names public knowledge. Hopefully you can understand why.
Additionally, if there is some sort of 'certification' or other means of proving what we are doing is 'legit', I am not aware of it. If the tribe would offer a 'certificate' of authenticity, I would gladly pay whatever fees were required to obtain one.
As for me, I quite honestly feel like an essential part of this venture. I have been a professional musician for years. I can talk to music stores about our product, I know the needs of musicians, I can make this work, and have proven so. We now have over 40 dealers nationwide. While our focus is on mandolin straps, our other straps are starting to develop in sales as well. It is a good thing.
Finally, I don't believe that I should be expected to do this without recouping our family investment, and perhaps at some point in the future possibly making a small salary. It is after all a very time consuming venture and quite a chore at times. The development of the website alone has taken countless hours. Finding the correct places to advertise, the money to fund these things, going through 4 leather suppliers and all the incredible BS that has gone along with that.. getting the wrong color hides delivered, getting the wrong thicknesses delivered, ordering dozens of straps in colors that don't sell, having piles of leather laying around that are basically worthless that we paid hundreds, even thousands of dollars for, exchanging straps that are incorrect sizes and colors, answering inquiries such as yours, paying thousands of dollars to the post office, dealing with COD orders that never show up,  and countless other day to day issues. Yet, I am not complaining one single bit.. just telling you how it is.. When I receive a letter from a family on the rez that expresses their gratitude for helping them out, it is all worth it.. We are actually contemplating building a home for one of my mandolin strap braiders in the spring .. CAN YOU IMAGINE>>?
This crazy little business might actually be able to give a wonderful family on the rez a new home.. how wonderfull is that?
I guess when it's all said and done, you need to ask yourself what you need to do.. Just like the homeless guy at the stoplight.. you can give him a buck and hope it's for the right reasons, or you can pretend that you don't see him... even if he used the dollar for a drink of liquor, you still did the right thing....I hope this answers your questions, and you can appreciate my answers.
Sincerely,
Kenny Bohling
Lakota Leathers
www.lakotaleathers.com
kenny@lakotaleathers.com
537 South Schrader Rd.
Sevierville TN 37876
(865)908-1360
(865) <deleted by clearwater> cell
 
 
 
In a message dated 1/7/2010 11:32:30 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, ---@---.com writes:

    Hello Kenny--

    Thanks for your prompt reply. As I indicated, I am not being malicious in this inquiry at all. It's just that I have seen, first hand, so much exploitation of American Indians that I would like to know, for sure, that you are a good guy doing what you say. As a courtesy to you, here is a link to that thread:

    http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2541.0

    As you can see, I am not being mean. I really want to know that you are for real. And if so, there are some edits you can make to your site that will clear up any questions.

    Again, many thanks to you.

    Again, for now, I will remain unnamed, but I will identify myself to you with your next reply. As it turns out, I personally know one of your band members anyway...

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[clearwater]

UPDATE: Another email from Lakota Leather. My comments follow

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Re: Lakota Leathers
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From:   
"Bbanjoboy@---l.com" <Bbanjoboy@--.com>
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Hello -----,
Thanks for letting me know who you are. I'd first like to say thanks for the emails and posts, but I hope that they haven't hurt any sales of straps. This would ultimately hurt the Lakota, but this are legitimate questions and I don't mind answering. I just hate anyone raising doubts about our intentions. I do have to agree with you that I am 'goofy' as you stated.. Funny how this inquiry comes from you. As you said, you sold -------- just to get out of the hastle, yet I am doing this basically for free and have many of the same hastles that I'm sure you faced..
<snip>
If you HONESTLY want to know anything about me or my intentions, I would ask you to call Jeff.. He knows the shit I've been through.. How much do you think one trip to SD costs from TN? How much to rent a UHaul one way? How bout gas for a V6 frontier going to SD without overdrive full of blankets from local hotels... I went door to door in Sevier county begging for blankets...  You can call pastor Jerry at New Hope thrift store to see what he donated and ask about me.
If you have suggestions for the website let me know, but I do not see any need for names/phone numbers/ etc. because it is indeed a cottage industry. Feel free to call me if you like.. KB

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I understand Kenny's concern about identifying these home-based craftspeople. This seems for real. Kenny's earlier interest in documenting or certifying the products should be considered. How would he go about doing that?

I believe Kenny will be making a post to this thread. He has emailed me that he is locked out until approved. Perhaps at this time the moderator can move this thread if appropriate.

It would indeed be unfortunate if my inquiry ends up hurting the Lakotas.

[critter - a white non-ndn person]

I've been reading with some interest. If it is legit I might know people who might be interested and could send some good business their way.  But I will wait.  I just wanted to comment to show that just because posted on this site doesn't equate negative backslide for the company IF it is legit, it will most likely HELP the company. 

[Defend the Sacred]

I have questions about a business run by non-Lakota calling themselves "Lakota".

[ska]

I share your concerns, Kathryn.

Here's another famous example:

http://www.lakotaherbs.com/Home.aspx

[Lakota Leathers]

..

[Lakota Leathers]

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[Lakota Leathers]

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[clearwater]

Sometimes things happen for a reason I suppose. Since posting this thread this morning, Kenny at Lokota Leathers has corresponded directly with me and I have shared those posts here. I just logged in again to read his posts directly to the forum. I do not believe that anyone with fraudulent intent or a false heart would do that.

I ask that those who have a concern about this respond to Kenny's questions about what changes he can make to his site. I have emailed him 3 or 4 ideas that have already been covered in this thread, and he has already taken down what seems to be the most questionable of these concerns, the donation thing.

I would also encourage those concerned to honor Kenny's request to contact him directly for clarifications that would be necessary to establish his relationships with those on the reservation. I do understand his points made, and his concerns, about publicly identifying these artists, as they work from their homes, as I understand, and this could be disruptive to them. That makes sense to me given his explanations.

Earlier in this thread it was mentioned about documentation of authenticity. That rang a bell with me, but I do not know more about this. Is there is a process for this, and once the authenticity is confirmed by those who would know, off list, then why not help Kenny with these certifications or point him in the right directions?

Based on what I have seen and read today, I believe this person is for real, but of course I have no way to know or validate the things he is saying. I believe you guys here on the forum do. If so, and once done, it would be my feeling that a Kenny in the world would be a good thing.

I realize I probably screwed up Kenny's day, but I commend him for tackling this head on and not running away or becoming angry. That to me speaks volumes.

All IMHO of course.