NAFPS Forum
General => Research Needed => Topic started by: earthw7 on March 17, 2009, 06:30:37 pm
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The Santee of North Carolina
http://www.sciway.net/hist/indians/santee.html
Name, Language
Alternate spellings: Zantee, Seretee, Seratee, Sattee – also the name of a Dakota Sioux tribe that lives on a reservation in Nebraska
Possible meanings: "People of the river," from iswan'ti, which means "the river" or "the river is there"
Language family: Siouan
Current Status
Active - Santee Indian Organization as a state recognized tribe and seeking federal recognition.
Contact Information
Santee Indian Organization - state recognized tribe
Chief Roosevelt Scott
224 Bayview Street
Holly Hill, SC 29059
Phone: 803-496-7169
Santee Indian Nation of South Carolina
Chief William Koon
208 Foster Mill Circle
Pauline, SC 29374
Phone: 864-541-8759
SC Location, Territory
Traditional: Along the middle section of the Santee River in Calhoun, Clarendon, and Orangeburg counties
Today: Communities of Columbia, Elloree, Holly Hill, Pauline, Santee ... Berkeley, Lexington, Orangeburg, and Richland counties
Related SC Names
Town of Santee in Orangeburg County
Santee River in Berkeley, Georgetown, and Williamsburg counties
Population Estimates
1600: 3000+
2000: 6000
History
The Santee first encountered Europeans in the 1660s when a Spanish explorer sailed up the Santee River.
Fought with the British against the North Carolina Tuscarora in the Tuscarora Wars during 1711.
From 1715 to 1716, they fought with other tribes against the British in the Yemassee War and were defeated.
Attacked by coastal tribes in 1716, possibly the Cusabo, who attempted to remove them on behalf of the colonists. Many Santee were captured and sent to the West Indies as slaves. Remaining Santee fled to Hickerau, the spiritual place of the Santee, located around present-day Elloree.
Many Santee moved to Oklahoma in 1853 as part of the Catawba. Some remained in South Carolina.
Santee mounds are located in Orangeburg. Excavation led to repatriation of ancestral remains.
Dwellings
Spanish accounts from the 1660s stated they lived in bark and mud-covered huts on the banks of the Santee River.
Food
Farming: Corn, beans, squash, greens, peaches, melons, tobacco, and pumpkins. Gathered wild nuts and berries
Fishing: Variety of fish from the Santee River
Hunting: Deer, raccoons, geese, and turkeys
Clothing
Men: Loincloth and moccasins
Women: Skirts and moccasins. Ceremonial dresses were decorated with wood, clay, and seed-type beads, as well as turkey feathers. The women of high social standing wore dresses decorated with hawk feathers.
Special clothing was decorated mainly with turkey and hawk feathers, but feathers from other birds were also used and everyday clothing was not decorated. All clothing was made from deerskins. Both men and women were bare from the waist up.
Beliefs and Practices
The Santee had elaborate burial rituals. They buried chiefs, shaman, and warriors on earthen mounds. A structure made of wooden poles was placed on top of the mound to protect the body. Relatives hung offerings such as rattles and feathers on the poles. The height of the burial mound indicated the importance of the deceased. Common people were buried by wrapping their bodies in bark and setting them upon platforms. The closest relative of the deceased would paint their face black and keep a vigil at the grave for several days. After a time, corpses were removed from the burial site and their bones and skull were cleaned. Families placed the bones of loved ones in a box and cleaned and oiled them each year.
At places where a warrior was killed, the Santee would make a marker of stones or sticks. Each time the site was passed by a Santee, they were expected to add a stone or stick in remembrance of the fallen.
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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Santee_Nation/?v=1&t=directory&ch=web&pub=groups&sec=dir&slk=1349
Chief William Koon Welcomes you to the Santee Nation Of South Carolina!! We are very Happy to have you here to find out about our history and origions. We have a long history and wonderful storys to share. This will also be our site to inform you of when and where our meetings will take place and what happens during our meetings. We welcome all who are interested to join and be a part of our wonderful future.
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I am dumbfounded by this but curious as to know whether it is just an organization of enrolled santees that NC backs or an actual tribe. I'm not getting a warm and fuzzy about this. Something is just not right. I could be wrong but this is weird. Imma have to ask my fam about this.
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There's an interesting discussion here.
http://www.powwows.com/gathering/native-issues/32828-cherokee-blackfoot-4.html
The short version is that some think the Catawba and Siouan languages are related. By blood is a more difficult question. Santee in the Carolinas say they are. The fact is that we have two D/L/Nakota members who find this all suspicious....I probably don't even have to ask, but I'm guessing the D/L/N tribes don't even know about those claiming to be their relatives, much less support their petition to be recognized?
Message from Koon.
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http://www.greatdreams.com/mounds.htm
EDISTO BEACH STATE PARK SOUTH CAROLINA
Hau Koda (Hello in Dakota) I am Chief William Koon of the Santee Indian Nation of South Carolina. In the listing of Mounds the Santee
Indian Mound at the Santee Wildlife Refuge in South Carolina is not mentioned. The Santee Indian Mound has been carbon dated to be at least 20,000 years old. During an archeological dig done at the site in 1972 and 1973 there were 27 Santee remains dug up. We have been able to have the remains returned to us and they have been reburied. Could you please include the Santee Indian Mound on your site that has the mounds listed. Pidamayaya do (Thank you in Dakota) Chief William Koon
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Other sites mentioning reburials and Koon.
http://archaeoblog.blogspot.com/2004/11/welcome-back-from-long-for-all-you-us.html
http://www.charleston.net/news/2007/oct/22/givhans_man_collects_history_from_lakebe19792/
http://www.wistv.com/global/story.asp?s=2621028&ClientType=Printable
http://h-net.msu.edu/cgi-bin/logbrowse.pl?trx=vx&list=H-AmIndian&month=0309&week=d&msg=uGeK%2BxaZLHnnQf/4fj5b0g&user=&pw=
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No
we are not relative
no we have not had people in the east
(post before i finished)
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"No we are not relative no we have not had people" earthw7
X2
I would like to know these "cousins" in this " Tribe"
Its like the "long lost band" or clan. LOL
Guess they figured they would give the Tsagali and Lakota a rest for a while. Original I gotta say. Two thumbs down. My mom said the same thing hearing about various scholors theorizing of L\N\Dakota Occupancy in the SE but to her and everyone else is just that, an outlandish THEORY.
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Each day it get more crazy what do these people think they can make up tribes
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Whats insane is that supposedly the state buys into this crap, either that or they' re getting some incentive from these wannabes. I gotta know on what grounds these wackos are making thier case for state. There is no way that they can base this off some mounds or remains without documentation, DNA, etc. All I see is what it has always been, "SPECULATION". There has to be more going on internally between this group and the state. Anyone's take on this????
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I don’t know who these people are or how they trace their linage back, but the Santee as a community have been around since before the IRA. and There are letters at SUNY from the Tuscarora to the British discussing a wampum belt that was exchanged to create a treaty alliance to drive the Santee out of the area that is now North to South Caroline in 1711. Also there were records of Santee being adopted into the Catawba when they were moved to Oklahoma. Finally, a old friend who is a former tribal council man from Sisseton Wahpeton told me that there were Dakotas “down south” but I don’t know if this is who he meant. All I can say is ??? Just don't know
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Here is a good link which might help some of you to see how the siouan are related By language,lot of good information on this site if you scroll way down the page you find a language tree.
http://spot.colorado.edu/~koontz/faq/language.htm#siouan
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Wow, that tree link is pretty interesting. I know I have Annishnaabe and Ioway ties via Robideauxs but that would be even more interesting to see Catawba in there way off in the distance.
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I think the dakota kid is on the money with his # 7 reply
here is a link that might provide some of you with some interesting information.
I would suggest you click on the "about us" tab and read that page.
www.southcarolinaindianaffairs.com
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this link will take you to the south carolina criteria for state recognition.
http://www.scstatehouse.gov/coderegs/c139.htm
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Ok I read all the so called evidence and there is still no evdience
I would like dates and winter counts.
Our winter counts are 2 thousand years old and it would say that
we traveled across the United States or we had relatives out east.
i heard there was a church called blackfeet out east but
no mention of it being a naton. This is the only claim for these peole
to claim Blackfeet Lakota.
The Isanti have four bands Dakota our mother nation
but we believe we broke off from the Dakota around 1500s
to separate into the Lakota.
and the language post only talked about Sisseton
Then they put the stoney and Assinbione as two different
people yet they are the same
at one time they were Ihunktonwan that intermarried with the Cree and their
language combined but that is around 1700.
Since the Isanti is suppose to be in South Carolina I wonder what band it is suppose to be?
Out east it seems to be many who dream or make up who they are
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question why would they be called Isanti and not by their band name
why not by there tiospaye name.
Why would they go to Olklahome if they belong to us? Why not return to their
people if they are a part of us.
I believe they are some band or clan of an eastern tribe that had a name sounding
close to ours.
I guess i would need proof. Show me
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you raise many questions earthw7 most of them you need to answer yourself call these people up or send them an e-mail.I won`t bad mouth them or defend them.
you do ask one question in your last post,that i might have some insight on.
the Santee tribe in question is from south carolina not from the north west.the whiteman gave people here in the east TWO choices when they were being FORCED TO MIGRATE go to oklahoma or DIE.
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Since the Isanti were a large tribe in the Minnesota are in the 1500s and 1600s
why did they not come home?
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question why would they be called Isanti and not by their band name
why not by there tiospaye name.
Why would they go to Olklahome if they belong to us? Why not return to their
people if they are a part of us.
I believe they are some band or clan of an eastern tribe that had a name sounding
close to ours.
I guess i would need proof. Show me
Is there a. Possibility that there was indeed a massive migration from the southeast and perhaps a portion for whatever reason chose to stay behind and we have been separated by years of time " slaughter " generational trauma" which is just one portion. Of a much greater list?
I'm willing to believe that we aren't a part of the same nation as long as you can provide me with proof that we aren't..
Maybe its not a question of proof that we are...?
I'd very much like to learn about my Santee ancestry in south Carolina without having to go thru any of this with a people who would outrightly claim we weren't the same people.
But for the sake of argument ....let's say we were ..and ITT was true......then.....will you open your door to me to teach me ways and traditions which have died out on the east coast??
If I could prove it tomorrow ...would u guys let us come home? Think I'm more curious about that....I know for a fact that Santee our Santee in the southeast don't even have ceremony. No wiwang wacipi. Ini GHA GHA orways. bedecha
I'd rather you open your borders so I can learn those things and take care of myself spiritually than some dudes rules as to whether or not I'm native enough and have a card...not to stray off topic. But I believe in these ways "respectfully"
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i guess we should start with what stories do you think you have about my people,
second remember if you don't know your family you are not native because being Native is
knowing your family, and yes i can say this.
Now as the tribal historian I can tell we have NO stories of our people being on the east coast,
we know that we were in South American traveled up the gulf of Mexico then up the Mississippi to
Michigan in the 1200 to 1300 we lived in the area from Michigan to Minnesota i have walked our old
village sites there, in 1700 we created the Seven council fire which is our government system to formalized
our government, the lakota separated from the dakota in 1600s in Minnesota. The four band of the Isant or as
white people say santee are very distinct. Isanti is the people of the knife,
I have to laugh at some of the new age people who say things like peace and harmony ext.. that is not us
we are warrior will fight you, as we do today to protect our culture.
No we don't have to invite you
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Why the mention of fighting ?? I'm still in need of the proof that we aren't that u haven't provided me with here
Do u have a site I could visit ? Elders I can talk to?
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ok thats nice i know your just learning but never heard my language spelled that way, but as i said you are just learning,
as a new learner the first lesson is be quiet and listen as i see you have not done that, I live my culture everyday and
know my stories and who i am. I find that when you are a damaged person you will hung on to anything,
if you can give me dates when this Native group lived in South carolina i can look though our winter counts for a story
or any information. The Isanti Oyate still is very much alive.
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thats me i am the tribal historian, and yes our nation is known for fighting :D ;D
I always tell people we are not those peace and harmony
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Why the mention of fighting ?? I'm still in need of the proof that we aren't that u haven't provided me with here
Do u have a site I could visit ? Elders I can talk to?
We don't need to prove a negative.
Anti, you are talking to an elder (earthw7). You just don't like what she has to say. :) And other elders are reading this. We know one another here, in person as well as online. We know who our core members are and we have a long history with one another. Please go back and read the pinned threads in all the sections.
I reiterate everything that's already been said to you: if you can't show that you are a relative, no one owes you anything. You have not shown that you are related to anyone here.
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I guess i should not be so forward :o
I will try and explain as far as history is concerned i can find no evidence of
our people living on the east coast now if a trader took his family out east to trade
and established relationship there i can see how we would be related.
Since the Oceti Sakowin was not created until 1500 to formalize our government at Mille Lac
in Minnesota. In the 1600 we were developing our bands as you know today. The Isanti were in the
Mille Lac area from 1300 to late 1700s. The largest band of Isanti are the Mdewakantonana, whom land
base was from Wisconsin to the Missouri River. Sisseton, Wahpetu and wahpeton were along the Minnesota river
from 1500 to 1863.
How could there be a Oceti Sakowin on the east coast at the same time?
i would ask the year you think they were out east?
I am surprised that people think we dont know our history i can tell you my history for 2 thousand years.
I know my family going back to 1700s
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I guess i should not comment on this but i really can find no history among our people for this belief,
I know there are words in every Native culture that sounds like another but we are all from this country.
so we share just like the english language it is shared from many cultures.
There are myths out there that have spread that have no truth to them sorry to hurt feeling but it is
time for the truth.
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hmmmmmm
a buncha "occaneechee", "santee","tuscarora" and "saponi" people been talking all kinds of crap to me in FB for years.....even went as far as making fake pages about me and calling me a sellout and a blood quantum nazi and putting words in my mouth....there were a few other "tribes" now whose names all escape me....one of em even claims to be a tribe of mixed blood cherokee/sioux and have state recognition.....twinkies favorite 2 tribes......add lenape in there and we have a trifecta
funny thing is.....there aint a single indian among them.....they are all BLACK!!
and they LOVE giving me half-assed history "lessons" and many times trying to educate me on things i already know
i have a lakota friend who went out to the carolinas and virginia a few years ago and he went to a few powwows in that area and left all of them early.....he never went to a single powwow out that way after his first 3 or 4 experiences...
i have another friend who went out there and thought that it was insane place because of all the blacks and occasional white out there claiming to be sioux...or "eastern siouxan"...............why arent blacks happy just being black and white happy just being white?
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in my research i have found a black church that called it self blackfoot but they were not related to any tribe
but came up with the myth of being from the Lakota nation then we had this ideal of the Santee being in the carolinas
but to this day I can find no relationship the people out east come up with date of contact for the tribes on the east
coast but we were still forming our bands in the west.
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as far as "eastern siouxan" languages....how come every one of them i have talked to say that the language was lost....bu they are trying to resurrect it?
most of em are just like the "yamasee"......but without the absurd afrocentric claims and stories.................buncha fakes if you ask me......and according to any L/D/N i know they all think they are fake also
seems like someone likes going through archives of 300 year old documents and pulling the name of some small obscure tribe and ressurecting it as an existing people
not saying there arent blacks out there with no indian blood.....i know many mixed bloods.....i know a few black PODIAs too, some are just normal people comfortable with identifying as black (who i think may be more legit) and some that claim to be SUPERNDN (who for some reason have very dubious claims).....
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From the history of Clarendon County, South Carolina:
Clarendon county is named after Edward Hyde, the Earl of Clarendon, friend and supporter of King Charles II of England. At one time he served as the Lord High Chancellor of England. He was one of the lords proprietors to whom the King gave all the land in this part of the American colonies.
In 1701, John Lawson, an English trader and explorer wrote of the Santee Indians of this area. In his writings he spoke of the friendliness and hospitality of the Santees. Examples of their ways of life and customs can still be found in and around their burial mounds at Fort Watson near the Santee waters.
In 1711 the Santee Indians joined the settlers to fight the Tuscarora Indians of North Carolina, but in 1715 the Santees joined the Yemassee Indians in a war to destroy the South Carolina settlers, and they almost succeeded. The few Indians left at the end of that war moved up the river to join the Catawba Indians, leaving no Santee Indians in our county.
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These peoples name was actually Iswan'ti (Catawba - People of the river). Like the Catawba they were of the Siouan language base. I was under the impression that more than likely they were a Catawba band and that Santee was a Spanish bastardization of their actual name.
From the history of Clarendon County, South Carolina:
Clarendon county is named after Edward Hyde, the Earl of Clarendon, friend and supporter of King Charles II of England. At one time he served as the Lord High Chancellor of England. He was one of the lords proprietors to whom the King gave all the land in this part of the American colonies.
In 1701, John Lawson, an English trader and explorer wrote of the Santee Indians of this area. In his writings he spoke of the friendliness and hospitality of the Santees. Examples of their ways of life and customs can still be found in and around their burial mounds at Fort Watson near the Santee waters.
In 1711 the Santee Indians joined the settlers to fight the Tuscarora Indians of North Carolina, but in 1715 the Santees joined the Yemassee Indians in a war to destroy the South Carolina settlers, and they almost succeeded. The few Indians left at the end of that war moved up the river to join the Catawba Indians, leaving no Santee Indians in our county.
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i contend that though some people may be PODIAs....are they in any way right to call themselves ndn?
if a great great great great great grandmother was a cherokee princess....or a lenape princess....or a mexika princess but you, your parents, grandparents or anyone else in your family tree that you know doesnt know shit about being native, and in turn you dont know shit........can you call yourself an ndn? my opinion is NO!!!!
too much disconnection.........will the said tribe your princess ancestor desnded from recognize you, claim you?.......NO........so there waccamaws, santees, washitas, yamasees whatever wannabe tribe provides the next best thing.......a buncha likeminded twinks.....they will accept the PODIA.....hell they will accept a non-PODIA too.....they provide that sanctuary that nurses the delusions of those who hate thier black or white skin...
there is no way a PODIA who had a distant ndn ancestor going back to the 1700s......1600s or whatever has any business identifying as us........even if he/she really do descend from pocahantas
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No
we are not relative
no we have not had people in the east (Earth 7)
In his book, "Mitakuye Oyasin" page 61, Dr. A.C. Ross (Santee Sioux) states, "The anthropology of the Dakota people determined that they were located in North Carolina about 1400 A.D.
Why not call the Santee Sioux tribal office in Nebrasksa and ask to hear their Origination story. Then take a trip down there and look at the mural of their migration on the wall of the tribal offices.
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No
we are not relative
no we have not had people in the east (Earth 7)
In his book, "Mitakuye Oyasin" page 61, Dr. A.C. Ross (Santee Sioux) states, "The anthropology of the Dakota people determined that they were located in North Carolina about 1400 A.D.
Why not call the Santee Sioux tribal office in Nebrasksa and ask to hear their Origination story. Then take a trip down there and look at the mural of their migration on the wall of the tribal offices.
I know Chuck Ross and had the pleasure of many conversation with him, Indian country is small we all know each other, I can tell you after many years of research Chuck was quoting what the books wrote at that time, since then we have been putting together our winter counts and doing our own history, as far as calling the Tribal office it would be the same as calling mine you will talk with secretary who dont know their whole history, I would if you could provide some evidence different then what we have put together for the Lakota-Dakota-Nakota people, i would be willing to listen, I know that we were in the Mississippi valley in 900 so are you saying we then traveled east then to the west or you say a band of our people traveled east or was it was family that travel east? Then could you tell me which band of the Isanti were in the east? I know the whole nation was not there. I have the archaeological dwelling of our people in Michigan in 1400, provide the information i am willing to listen and add it to our information if there is eveidence. Plus what are the names of the people?
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No
we are not relative
no we have not had people in the east (Earth 7)
In his book, "Mitakuye Oyasin" page 61, Dr. A.C. Ross (Santee Sioux) states, "The anthropology of the Dakota people determined that they were located in North Carolina about 1400 A.D.
Why not call the Santee Sioux tribal office in Nebrasksa and ask to hear their Origination story. Then take a trip down there and look at the mural of their migration on the wall of the tribal offices.
From a 2013 interview with Dr. Ross:
Starting in 1962 is when my quest began. See later I learned that with that first vision of that giant serpent laying across the road that was what metaphysics calls kundalini. It was an opening of my chakras. It was an awakening of my psychic abilities so that I could receive information. And that started in 1962, when I was in Germany. That’s when the quest started. When I was in Germany I came across these German hobbyists who study Native Americans. They learn the language, they make old traditional outfits, they make them the old way, they learn how to dance and sing, and they have sweat lodges. Everything.
Later I visited one of their tepee villages. They allowed no electricity, no radio. Everything in the village had to be like it was 200 years ago. It just brought flashbacks of how we must have lived way, way back.
The book Mitakuye Oyasin deals with Dakota/Lakota mythology regarding the Pleiades, stories of a great flood, how life emerged from red clay, and how all of these things, not only among Native Americans, but cultures all over the world have stories that are remarkably similar. And in rereading your book again I was fascinated to read about the creation myths of many different people and of how animals were created before man, how it often seems to follow that pattern, and then in the Cayce readings man was created from animal endocrine systems which I didn’t realize.
When I graduated college I went down on the Navajo reservation and taught for five years and while I was down there I married a Hopi girl, so I visited the Hopi reservation every weekend. That’s how I got to know about the Hopis. And as you know, in my book, the main stories are Lakota stories, but they’re intertwined with the Hopi and the Navajo. Then those three are intertwined with other religious philosophies over the world.
The book, Mitakuye Oyasin (We are all related) is in the 21st printing with over 100,000 copies sold. It won the top 50 New Books Award in 1992 at Frankfurt, Germany (the world’s largest book fair). It contains the real history of America based on the oral history of 33 different tribes.
http://one-vibration.com/group/thegospeloftheredman/forum/topics/sundance-chief-and-award-winning-author-ehanamani-dr-a-c-ross#.VJBsfcnAtht
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yes Chuck he is from Flandreau South Dakota he wrote i believe about four books he studied Jung and
the left brain and right brain way of thinking.
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yes Chuck he is from Flandreau South Dakota he wrote i believe about four books he studied Jung and
the left brain and right brain way of thinking.
Thank you, Earth. I have no doubt he is a very educated person and highly qualified. I did not make myself clear in my prior post. I just wondered if he was a good person to quote regarding the topic of this thread, whether the Santee were in North Carolina?
He has been a speaker for the Star Knowledge Conferences.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mFLBrL_gAE
A thread on this forum regarding Loren Zephier of the Star Knowledge Conferences:
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2897.msg33688#msg33688
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Lol. So a group of Germans do it and they're cool"
But if I do it I'm a wannabe ..? Just did some more reading here ...so pls pardon my line of questioning here..
A man travels to Germany and sees the age resurrected in Europe and the natives are a "study" and what this man Sees provokes thought .....but my mind and heart are moved by what I've learned and I'm condemned by the same people that I'm learning from. Yes I'm a mixture of european. African and quite possibly native (still a mystery) and I'm still getting that same "vibe" that nobody really wants anything to do with African Americans period ...but a full blooded Masai warrior from Kenya can Sundance in south Dakota but an African american will catch hell for trying..pay me no mind here. But I'm not afraid to talk about what may be the underlying issue here ....anybody coming out of the southeast gets blasted for loving native culture and spirituality by people way on the other side of the country ..who don't really know how the other half is living ..my sons mother left flathead to visit my grandparents in new York one time and never went back
antiunilateral43, you misunderstood what I was trying to point out in my post. I was not saying that it was right for someone to get inspiration from what we would call "Pretendians" on this forum, but that the author who was quoted as saying the Santees were in North Carolina in 1400 was maybe not the right person to be quoting. He actually is NDN and had gotten away from his culture due to the fact that he had been raised in a Christian boarding school. His meeting with the Germans made him realize how little he knew about his culture and inspired him to go home and study his culture, but that does not make what the German hobbyists are doing right.
IMHO, I realize you are in pain and the way you describe your disconnection is painful to hear, but it seems to me that the people on this forum have gone out of their way to help you (and, yes, guide you). Piff warned you about falling for teachers who may not be looking out for your best interest and Earth has told you that you need to find your healing within. There are wise words from people who know what they are talking about. Just my humble opinion, again, but I think you need to slow down and spend some time reading the threads on this forum so that you will get a sense of what this forum is about and see how exploiters take advantage of people just like you.
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Since antiunilateral's tangent devolved into a discussion of one person's genealogy and desire to learn ceremony, I've moved that tangent to etc: antiunilateral43, African-American genealogy (tangent from Santee of So. Carolina?) http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=4529.0
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No
we are not relative
no we have not had people in the east (Earth 7)
In his book, "Mitakuye Oyasin" page 61, Dr. A.C. Ross (Santee Sioux) states, "The anthropology of the Dakota people determined that they were located in North Carolina about 1400 A.D.
Why not call the Santee Sioux tribal office in Nebrasksa and ask to hear their Origination story. Then take a trip down there and look at the mural of their migration on the wall of the tribal offices.
I did in fact call tribal historian in niobrara and he did say that the Carolinas were ancestral homelands at one time. Someone from within the forum did pose a very good question : had they been of the same peoples why didn't they come home ?? But from what I learned about the 38 brothers hung in mankato .. Santee being pushed this way is kinda recent when u think in terms of time. The year I heard was 1867. A woman states " when we were brought here from the east our first homes were in the stockade in Minnesota " so where from the east was she talking about ??
The mystery deepens and again I have to admit that both arguments are pretty sound. There's proof somewhere ...
And in the event my grandmother was actually telling the truth about Rachel. There's gotta be proof of that somewhere too ..someone actually suggested I dig by way of probate records to come to a conclusion about her blood.. Another way I've been considering is thru DNA testing to come to a conclusion
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chuck is a very good friend of mine......he performed my initiation ceremony to powwow arena along with john emhoolah for me and my brother when we were kids.....we know him as "uncle chuck"........small world
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No
we are not relative
no we have not had people in the east (Earth 7)
In his book, "Mitakuye Oyasin" page 61, Dr. A.C. Ross (Santee Sioux) states, "The anthropology of the Dakota people determined that they were located in North Carolina about 1400 A.D.
Why not call the Santee Sioux tribal office in Nebrasksa and ask to hear their Origination story. Then take a trip down there and look at the mural of their migration on the wall of the tribal offices.
I did in fact call tribal historian in niobrara and he did say that the Carolinas were ancestral homelands at one time. Someone from within the forum did pose a very good question : had they been of the same peoples why didn't they come home ?? But from what I learned about the 38 brothers hung in mankato .. Santee being pushed this way is kinda recent when u think in terms of time. The year I heard was 1867. A woman states " when we were brought here from the east our first homes were in the stockade in Minnesota " so where from the east was she talking about ??
The mystery deepens and again I have to admit that both arguments are pretty sound. There's proof somewhere ...
And in the event my grandmother was actually telling the truth about Rachel. There's gotta be proof of that somewhere too ..someone actually suggested I dig by way of probate records to come to a conclusion about her blood.. Another way I've been considering is thru DNA testing to come to a conclusion
I think your mixing things up yes MY RELATIVES were hung at Manikota or as we say MAKA To, The hanging was in to 1863 they were being pushed from our homes is the eastern side of Minnesota and Wisconsin, if you know our history we lived in the Mille lac area which is on the Wisconsin and Minnesota border. the settlers moved into the Minnesota river valley and moved the tribe further south until the stood up to fight back. We know our history. The Isanti did not come to Nebraska until after they let them out of prison i know there history
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chuck is a very good friend of mine......he performed my initiation ceremony to powwow arena along with john emhoolah for me and my brother when we were kids.....we know him as "uncle chuck"........small world
I have known Chuck Ross since 1980 when he lived on the rock
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I know Chuck Ross and had the pleasure of many conversation with him, Indian country is small we all know each other, I can tell you after many years of research Chuck was quoting what the books wrote at that time, since then we have been putting together our winter counts and doing our own history, as far as calling the Tribal office it would be the same as calling mine you will talk with secretary who dont know their whole history, I would if you could provide some evidence different then what we have put together for the Lakota-Dakota-Nakota people, i would be willing to listen, I know that we were in the Mississippi valley in 900 so are you saying we then traveled east then to the west or you say a band of our people traveled east or was it was family that travel east? Then could you tell me which band of the Isanti were in the east? I know the whole nation was not there. I have the archaeological dwelling of our people in Michigan in 1400, provide the information i am willing to listen and add it to our information if there is eveidence. Plus what are the names of the people?
Hello Earth 7,
What I suggested about calling the Tribal offices, even if it was an office worker answering the phone they would still likely to be able to give an interpretation of the migration mural on the wall of the tribal offices or put one in touch with some one who could. I have no evidence other than what I have read in Dr. Ross's book and what I have been told by other Santee Sioux tribal members. I am not "saying" anything other than what I quoted from his book. I am not a tribal historian, nor am I an anthropologist.
I met Chuck back about 1989 when his first book was published. We met at a pow wow. I'm sure all who know him here know him better than I. I have talked to him only a few times both in person and on the phone but that was over 20 years ago. My husband and I talked to him about his book, prophecies, history etc. We found we had mutual friends and acquaintances among the Santee people as well as similar life experiences on my husbands side. I found that my birthday was about 2 weeks before his, so we're both a couple of oldsters.
I have only read his first book, sad to say but I'm sure more information has been uncovered and updated in the last 25 years. What was interesting to us was at about the same time we met Chuck and discussed origins of our peoples in particular the Santee and where they came from before arriving on the shore of this continent, we met a Native woman from the West Coast (Chumash) who spoke of her tribes migration and arrival on this continent. Each spoke of where they say they were as a people before that. Each story matched but from opposite costs. We have talked to Elders from the "Americas", North, South and Central all have similar stories. Back about that time we met and listened to a Mayan Elder speak his peoples creation story, it took 4 days. So many stories very similar going back so far.
What I'm curious about is that those of you that know Chuck and respect him, don't seem to prescribe to his universal findings. Just how far does We are all related go, in your views. I am a woman, born on my reservation in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan 74 years ago. Raised here until the Government moved me. Returned after a life away from here.
By the way, we have remnants of the "Sioux' moving through here many years ago. My younger sister married a man who's father was a Standing Rock tribal member, he had married a woman from our tribe and stayed here. My people have been here a long time but we know there were others here long ago before us.
I see that Chuck Ross has spoken at the Star Knowledge conferences but I don't think he can be compared to the Zephiers. We have ran across Mr. Golden Eagle a time or two starting when he put up that sundance/carnival at Yankton a couple of decades ago. I don't know why people get involved with him.
My interest, at this time was only about the origination of tribes not about someone trying to prove their ancient ancestry.
Thank you.
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cool.....he moved back and forth between there and denver frequently....recently he just moved back up there so you may run into him.....he poke a eulogy for my mother a a few months ago
a 2 years ago he held the sundance commemorating the return of pe 'sla
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anyways....which other eastern siouan tribes have sketchy history?? the hawaila-saponi seem kinda legit.....but they do seem to tolerate alot of hobbyists
and before i go off on a hobbyist rant.....i think we all know that a hobbyist is just a step away from a fraudulent twinkie
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I know Chuck Ross and had the pleasure of many conversation with him, Indian country is small we all know each other, I can tell you after many years of research Chuck was quoting what the books wrote at that time, since then we have been putting together our winter counts and doing our own history, as far as calling the Tribal office it would be the same as calling mine you will talk with secretary who dont know their whole history, I would if you could provide some evidence different then what we have put together for the Lakota-Dakota-Nakota people, i would be willing to listen, I know that we were in the Mississippi valley in 900 so are you saying we then traveled east then to the west or you say a band of our people traveled east or was it was family that travel east? Then could you tell me which band of the Isanti were in the east? I know the whole nation was not there. I have the archaeological dwelling of our people in Michigan in 1400, provide the information i am willing to listen and add it to our information if there is eveidence. Plus what are the names of the people?
Hello Earth 7,
What I suggested about calling the Tribal offices, even if it was an office worker answering the phone they would still likely to be able to give an interpretation of the migration mural on the wall of the tribal offices or put one in touch with some one who could. I have no evidence other than what I have read in Dr. Ross's book and what I have been told by other Santee Sioux tribal members. I am not "saying" anything other than what I quoted from his book. I am not a tribal historian, nor am I an anthropologist.
I met Chuck back about 1989 when his first book was published. We met at a pow wow. I'm sure all who know him here know him better than I. I have talked to him only a few times both in person and on the phone but that was over 20 years ago. My husband and I talked to him about his book, prophecies, history etc. We found we had mutual friends and acquaintances among the Santee people as well as similar life experiences on my husbands side. I found that my birthday was about 2 weeks before his, so we're both a couple of oldsters.
I have only read his first book, sad to say but I'm sure more information has been uncovered and updated in the last 25 years. What was interesting to us was at about the same time we met Chuck and discussed origins of our peoples in particular the Santee and where they came from before arriving on the shore of this continent, we met a Native woman from the West Coast (Chumash) who spoke of her tribes migration and arrival on this continent. Each spoke of where they say they were as a people before that. Each story matched but from opposite costs. We have talked to Elders from the "Americas", North, South and Central all have similar stories. Back about that time we met and listened to a Mayan Elder speak his peoples creation story, it took 4 days. So many stories very similar going back so far.
What I'm curious about is that those of you that know Chuck and respect him, don't seem to prescribe to his universal findings. Just how far does We are all related go, in your views. I am a woman, born on my reservation in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan 74 years ago. Raised here until the Government moved me. Returned after a life away from here.
By the way, we have remnants of the "Sioux' moving through here many years ago. My younger sister married a man who's father was a Standing Rock tribal member, he had married a woman from our tribe and stayed here. My people have been here a long time but we know there were others here long ago before us.
I see that Chuck Ross has spoken at the Star Knowledge conferences but I don't think he can be compared to the Zephiers. We have ran across Mr. Golden Eagle a time or two starting when he put up that sundance/carnival at Yankton a couple of decades ago. I don't know why people get involved with him.
My interest, at this time was only about the origination of tribes not about someone trying to prove their ancient ancestry.
Thank you.
That is great I have been doing tribal histories for 25 years now finding about where the tribe moved and why I love my work, I traveled to many of the spots of where my people are from it is such an honor to be able to stand where my relatives stand. I know my family back to the 1600 by name and where we lived. I visit with a Chippewa historian who talked about the birch bark scroll of our people being in Michigan in 1200, i just love this stuff, in my area there were no people 10,000 years ago because it was great sea. We came into the area about that time the oldest remains are 9,500 years old. I know when we were in the Mississippi valley when we were in south America and we made our travels back up north again. According to the winter counts. i took a class on the being strait theory and found out that was made by a monk who came to our world with Cortez and said there is no way these people could build these cities without comes from his world so there must be land bridge. Of course that theory has never been proven but history book use it all the time to prove who we are. I have know Chuck for a long time and like his family but i dont follow blindly anyone, i was taught never follow man because a man is just a human being who makes mistakes, So I respect chuck but dont follow. him
I have been working with coalation of tribal historian putting down our history instead of having the books tell us who we are. I am willing to listen to anyone just show me the proof because it is out there. Plus you must understand the time and age of the people you talk to because our boarding school age have been taught a different view then out traditional people. as you see with the Zephier which i know too.
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chuck would tell you the same thing.....he never expects anyone to follow him or even suggests it.....he just puts out his info/opinion and whoever chooses to agree with him will.....he once told me he has no hard feeling towards those that dont
he always been humble....and always readily admits that he is still learning himself even at his age
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i would really like to find out about this history some really facts and dates, as i have on our own people if t is true and not another fable i would like to put in with our history but i have to have proof
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http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~prsjr/na/se/sc_pg1.htm
Santee tribe. - Named according to Speck (1935), from iswan'ti,
"the river," or "the river is there." Also called: Seretee, by Lawson
(1860).
Santee Connections. - No words of the Santee language have come
down to us, but there is little doubt that they belonged to the Siouan
linguistic family.
Santee Location. - On the middle course of Santee River.
Santee Villages. - The only name preserved is Hickerau, on a branch
of Santee River.
Santee History. - The Santee were first encountered by the Spaniards
during the seventeenth century, and in the narrative of his second
expedition Captain Ecija places them on Santee River. In 1700 they
were visited by John Lawson, who found their plantations extending
for many miles along the river, and learned that they were at war
with the coast people (Lawson, 1860). They furnished Barnwell (1908)
with a contingent for his Tuscarora campaign in 1711-12, but are said
to have taken part against the Whites in the Yamasee War of 1715.
In 1716 they were attacked by the Etiwaw and Cusabo, acting in the
interest of the colonists, and the greater part of them were carried
away captive and sent to the West Indies. The remainder were probably
incorporated with the Catawba.
Santee Population.- The number of Santee was estimated by Mooney
(1928) at 1,000 in 1600. In 1715 an Indian census gave them 43 warriors
and a total population of 80 to 85 in 2 villages.
Santee Connection in which they have become noted.- The name Santee
has been given permanency chiefly by its application to the Santee
River, S. C., but it has also been applied to a village in Orangeburg
County, S. C.
Sewee tribe. - Significance: perhaps, as Gatschet suggested, from
sawe', "island."
Santee Connections.- No words of their language have survived, but
the Sewee are regarded as Siouan on strong circumstantial grounds,
in spite of the fact that they are sometimes classed with the Cusabo.
Santee Location.- On the lower course of Santee River and the coast
westward to the divide of Ashley River about the present Monks Corner,
Berkeley County.
Santee Villages. - In Lawson, writing about 1700, mentions a deserted
village in Sewee Bay called Avendaughbough which may have belonged
to them (Lawson, 1860). The name seems to be still preserved in the
form Awensdaw.
Santee History.- Possibly Xoxi (pronounced Shoshi or Shohi), one of
the provinces mentioned by Francisco of Chicora, an Indian carried
from this region by the Spaniards in 1521, is a synonym of Sewee.
The name is mentioned by Captain Ecija in 1609. They may have been
the Indians first met by the English expedition which founded the
colony of South Carolina in 1670, when they were in Sewee Bay. They
assisted the English against the Spaniards, and supplied them with
corn. Lawson (1860) states that they were formerly a large tribe,
but in his time, 1700, were wasted by smallpox and indulgence in alcoholic
liquors. Moreover, a large proportion of the able-bodied men had been
lost at sea in an attempt to open closer trade relations with England.
Just before the Yamasee War, they were still living in their old country
in a single village, but it is probable that the war put an end to
them as a distinct tribe. The remnant may have united with the Catawba.
Santee Population.- Mooney (1928) gives an estimate of 800 Sewee
for the year 1600. In 1715 there were but 57.
Santee Connection in which they have become noted.- At an earlier
period this name was applied to the body of water now called Bulls
Bay. There is a post hamlet with this designation in Meigs County,
Tenn., but the name is probably of independent origin.
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Ok i see just another misunderstanding of words from
iswan'ti-The River compared to Dakota Isanti-The Knife people,
two different meaning and words. then the white people could not understand
the native languages so they came up with Santee for the people.
Now that cause alot of misinformation across the united States.
So our Dakota people whose name is Isanti or Isanyathi- The people of the Knife
was some how mixed with people in the east so ok its making sense now.
Since this is the name of the Nation
we all follow under the names of our Bands we dont have clans.
So The Isanti are divided into the following.
1) Sisseton
2) Wahpeton
3) Wahpekute
4) Mdewakanton
We still dont have a winter count story of coming from the east other than being east as far as the Mississippi Valley.
I have been saying this for a long time we must tell our own histories now because misinformation is out there and then
people make up the history with maybe and would if.
I am always surprised how people would think they would have a sun dance in an environment that is high in humility or was a place
were the temp were high, everything a Native does relates to their environment. Common sense so there was never a sun dance in the east
and should never be one.
We were in the Michigan, Wisconsin and Minnesota area in 1200 to 1863
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Initial disclaimer: I am not a Santee.
I know that this is an old thread, but I wanted to chime in. As for the two Santees, look, get over it. There was a Santee tribe in SC. Tons of place names and historical records that an EASTERN Siouan speaking tribe called Iswanti lived in SC. Just accept it and move on. No one is stealing anyone’s heritage.
Let me tell you about a story about a surname. There are Allen’s from the following nations: Iran, Germany, Ireland, Scotland, Breton, Wales, Cornwall, Man, and Belgium. Only the Celtic Allens are related. The Iranian “Alans” had the same name pronounced the same way and invaded Europe with the Huns, Visigoths and other tribes and settled in Germany. Now, were the Proto-Germanic Iranian “Alans” stealing the heritage of the “Clannad Ailleann” of Ireland? No. They just had the same damned name. Period. How do I know this? Because the historical record exists, just like it does with these people, or else I myself would be skeptical. There are TONS of fake experts on this forum, for chrissakes. Coming here and asking people rather than doing the research yourself has provided me with months of laughs and head shaking.
In reply:
“the whiteman gave people here in the east TWO choices when they were being FORCED TO MIGRATE go to oklahoma or DIE.”
Bovine Scatology. I’ve heard this abject crap several times from Indians in the West who think that only real Indians are in the West and everyone else is fake. So let me rattle off just a few ___FEDERALLY RECOGNIZED___ tribes east of the Mississippi right off the top of my head: Catawba, Poarch Creek, Tunica-Biloxi, Eastern Band Cherokee, Shinnecock, Mohawk, about a half dozen Seminole/Creek tribes in Florida, , Tuscarora, and many others that I am forgetting. There are also many state recognized tribes. If that doesn’t make you happy, many of the state recognized tribes are supported for federal recognition by their federally recognized kin. It also doesn’t include state recognized tribes that are very close to federal recognition, like the Lumbee and the Monaco. Besides…as bad as the Trails of Tears was – genocide was not threatened, only forced removal. There were isolated murders and other atrocities by troops, but no one threatened to wipe everyone out. The real injustice came along the way, when many died on the trip. Please read history before stating history. The real history is more interesting than falsehood.
“These peoples name was actually Iswan'ti (Catawba - People of the river). Like the Catawba they were of the Siouan language base. I was under the impression that more than likely they were a Catawba band and that Santee was a Spanish bastardization of their actual name.”
The Catawba were themselves a band of the Cheraw. They became the dominant Cheraw band.
I see lots of people claiming that blacks are trying to be Indians with this tribe, but explain to me then why Catawbas, Lumbees, and Santees all share the same surnames and ancestors? So what if they are even mostly black. That didn’t matter to historical Natives. They started taking captives and mixing with other races right away. It seems to me that only Whites and racial purity obsessed Indians from the West are worried about purity.
That sums up everything that I have to say.
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so none of this still makes sense as an historian of the Dakota and Lakota Oyate, I know where my people lived and when,
so that is what when i read some of those claims i have to shake my head because most of the claims are historical incorrect.
at least for my people. so the following:
“These peoples name was actually Iswan'ti (Catawba - People of the river). Referring the people in the east.
My people name is "Isanti" mean People of the Knife, the Pte Oyate,
I understand that people who don't know their language can make mistakes but as you see the word which people use today the incorrect spelling of Santee has two different meaning according to two different languages would be my first clue,
Then the dates and time of things according to my nation and according to the people out east for events that happened.
To me its simple
So when a fraud comes out of the wood work claiming to be from a tribe but that is not related to another and then makes claims to be related other tribe and then want to do ceremonies that are not their to do then i have a problem with that. We are not christian trying to spread our beliefs around the world but we are Native who know our own way and want to keep it our way. That is why i believe we need to correct history, because people had some white guy write down their history and now that what the follow i would have some objections to that because next the people end up mixing different cultures together making a mess of things.
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Besides…as bad as the Trails of Tears was – genocide was not threatened, only forced removal. There were isolated murders and other atrocities by troops, but no one threatened to wipe everyone out.
Isolated incidents? Of course the intent was genocide. For you to post something so blatantly untrue and then imply that our elders don't know their own people's history.... Wow. What have you been smoking?