NAFPS Forum
General => Research Needed => Topic started by: Kantuta on December 31, 2007, 09:10:45 pm
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When visiting Trondheim (Norway) last week I saw a white guy standing on the street selling crafts and T-shirts with native american motifs under a banner saying "Help the Indians". He claims to collect money to help "poor indians in North America". Has anyone heard of him or his organisation? On his website says that he makes "money from different spiritual duties" and that he helps "to organize workshops and ceremonies".
Olav Redheart is the founder and leader of the Indian Support Association.
The aim of this organization is to help the native Indian people wherever needed. I will always fight for the Native Indian People`s RIGTHS AND JUSTICE!!! .
I donate money to support the native American Indians in USA . I make this money from different spiritual duties, and I sell genuine Native American arts and crafts, drums, and other objects. I attend different spiritual markets and fairs in Scandinavia. The profit is donated to natives in need and to native elders in USA.
This makes it possible to support the natives in different ways. I buy different objects from American Natives. The profit is donated to other natives in need for support. In the future I will have a close cooperation with the Lakota people In South Dakota. This work is very important to me, and of course much more important for the Native Indians, young and old. I also help Native American people travelling in Scandinavia, helping to organize workshops, seremonies and concerts.
I wish to give you information about the very tragic history of natives in North and South America. We also arrange indian tours to South Dakota and have some exciting projects going on.
I do this work in love, passion, respect and humbleness for all native indians alive and passed over.
THE GREAT SPIRIT IS GUIDING ME TO DO THIS VERY IMPORTANT WORK!
(from http://www.helptheindians.com/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1 )
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Olav Ramirez Husby, photo included.
http://www.care2.com/c2c/people/profile.html?pid=142847043
His profile shows him to be a Nuager who thinks Ghostwolf was Hopi.
"HOPI ELDERS SAY EARTH CHANGES ARE UPON US
2012 Unlimited philosophy...
5. The Mayans also say that by 2012-
- we will have gone beyond technology as we know it.
- we will have gone beyond time and money.
- we will have entered the fifth dimension after passing through
the
fourth dimension
- Planet Earth and the Solar System will come into galactic
synchronization with the rest of the Universe.
- Our DNA will be "upgraded" (or reprogrammed) from the centre of
our
galaxy. (Hunab Ku)
"Everbody on this planet is mutating. Some are more conscious of
it than
others. But everyone is doing it" -
6. In 2012 the plane of our Solar System will line up exactly
with the plane of our Galaxy, the Milky Way. This cycle has taken 26,000
years to complete. Virgil Armstrong also says that two other galaxies will
line up with ours at the same time. A cosmic event!
7. Time is actually speeding up (or collapsing). For thousands of
years the Schumann Resonance or pulse (heartbeat) of Earth has been 7.83
cycles per second, The military have used this as a very reliable
reference. However, since 1980 this resonance has been slowly
rising. Itis now over 12 cycles per second! This mean there is the
equalivant of less than 16 hours per day instead of the old 24 hours. Another
interpretation is - we, or rather Consciousness have been down
this same road seven times before over the last 16 billion years. Each of
these cycles of Creation runs 20 times faster than the last one. The
same amount of Creation is paced 20 times tighter. This is why time
seems to be going so fast. It is not "time" but Creation itself that is
accelerating....
Robert Ghost Wolf, noted Native American Prophet and author arranged for two Hopi Elders to appear for three hours on the nationally aired Art Bell show (out of
Pahrump, NV) and freely discuss their sacred, and heretofore secret prophecies....
Last month at Spiritual Endeavors (and returning again this coming
month) noted author, environmentalist, and channeler, Rev. Fred
Sterling carried much the same message. Rev. Sterling emphasized
that "The Great Shift" has already begun.
It is happening now. In other related recent events, Gordon
Michael Scallion, Robert Ghost Wolf, and other modern day prophets began
predicting major Earth Changes, especially noticeable in the state of
California among other places, beginning this summer. And now the
Hopi Elders have gone on national radio with the same message."
This part mamde me laugh:
" Try to find out what's really going on. You won't find out by
watching Hard Copy, or even the Evening News. Try Nexus magazine at your
newsagent. Read back copies."
LOVE, LIGTH AND LOT OF BLISS TO EVERYBODY FROM OLAV REDHEART RAMIREZ HUSBY.........
http://www.redheart.no"
Under activities:
Caretaker of a Brazilian moonqua and Navajo lodge.
Shamaness charming
So I wonder if he's trans/bi, or just using the shaman bit to chase women?
Most of his many sites seem to be in Norwegian or Danish, plus one in Portugese.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22olav+redheart&btnG=Google+Search
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i just wanted to check out this site....and my computer warned me it could be a pishing web page.
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I wonder why all these people who are suppose to help us but we never see
any money
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I don't know, but almost all of them have been caught at one time or the other, even the ones considered reliable. People should really be careful.
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I wonder why all these people who are suppose to help us but we never see
any money
Yeah, wonder how much he creams off for "admin"....
sox
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There is a Dutch man who is a member of TribalAmerica.com calls himself WolfSpirit aka Waya Adanvdo Member # 167074, he claims to come from the Sioux nation (yet note his name is in Cherokee)....his story goes....His mother was raped by the Sioux and brought over to Germany, this he claims happened in the 1400's, and when quizzed about it, he states no records are available BUT he knows he is Native as he has the correct shaped head! Where do these idiots come from?! He also claims to receive visions that have clearly told him he is to be the next great leader of the Native people, leading them into some great battle. Anyways, my point is this man also holds fundraisers, prints t-shirts etc to raise funds for the 'poor' native people, he is also looking for a 'Squaw' as he calls it, to enable him passage into the US or so he claims. He was banned from Tribal America, but seems to have been reinstated once more to bleed more money from Natives, no doubt he has been brought back to Tribal American to help Chief Pappy to raise more funding there now.
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A warm welcome to Olav, who joined the forum this morning with the username 'Redheart'.
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A warm welcome to Olav, who joined the forum this morning with the username 'Redheart'.
Excellent...
Looking forward to hearing what he has to say.
sox
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Yep, I would like to know which specific Nations the donations go to. Makes it easier to check.
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he is also looking for a 'Squaw' as he calls it, to enable him passage into the US
Oh dear gods...
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Hi my name is birger, and I am the webmaster of helptheindians.com site. After reading some of the posts, I just have to respond.
I am sad to see that some of the contributors of this topic is insinuating Olav Redheart and his organisation "Indian Support Organisation" is a fraud. I know Olav as a kind, genuine and dedicated man. He is devoted to native americans and he has established this org. to raise money in Scandinavia/Europe for native americans in need . All Donations goes to the projects supported. We claim no "admin cream" or wage. Costs are covered and that's it!
Olav is also attending different markets/fairs selling native american arts&crafts. The profit is donated.
Olav is of course not very happy about being accused of being a fraud who puts the money in his own pocket. I hope this topic will be moved to the "non-fraud" section in a while. The organization is registered by the Official Norwegian register as a non-profit humanitarian org. see here:
http://w2.brreg.no/enhet/sok/detalj.jsp;jsessionid=HD3vcnCtk1pqkFLg9rjc5TJ8K6BPD2sByBn54n80pSJW1xhljMhy!50794697?orgnr=987367830 (http://w2.brreg.no/enhet/sok/detalj.jsp;jsessionid=HD3vcnCtk1pqkFLg9rjc5TJ8K6BPD2sByBn54n80pSJW1xhljMhy!50794697?orgnr=987367830)
If some of You need references, contact nativeprogress.org (http://nativeprogress.org), which is our main collaborator. See also http://nativeprogress.org/content/view/49/112/ (http://nativeprogress.org/content/view/49/112/) (At the bottom helptheindians are registered as nativeprogress.org's leadership in Norway.)
I hope the contributors to this topic will discuss on a serious level in the future. It is OK to warn people of frauds, but not to categorize an organization as a fraud without actually knowing what's going on, or make ridicule of some person's personal beliefs.
I hope some of you take the bother to actually check out the organization as soon as possible, we do not want to be labeled as frauds. Hopefully some of the admins on this forum, so we can be moved to non-frauds in near future.
Blessings from Birger.
PS! Can someone please tell me how this [Barnaby's edit: 'this' is Tsisqua's post earlier in the thread] is related to Olav Redheart and helptheindians .com? I just don't understand what this post is doing in this topic.
[Barnaby replies:] Tsisqua answers that question in her post, Birger.
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Would this be a good general set of criteria to establish as a 'bench mark' of appropriate things to keep in mind ?
http://www.geocities.com/ourredearth/plastic.html
Leonard.
<edit> ... and 'birger' is right about the last item in the last post. I scanned that web-site, profile, and photographs - this is not 'redheart' (Olav) - why was this 'red herring' inserted here ? L.
... and another thing - "
So I wonder if he's trans/bi, or just using the shaman bit to chase women? " I thought part of the rules were not to post any material which was defamatory, vulgar, sexually oriented, or invasive of a persons privacy. (?) L.
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... and all that I am suggesting is for everyone to step back, take a breath, start communicating, and talk this thing out ...
Leonard.
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Would this be a good general set of criteria to establish as a 'bench mark' of appropriate things to keep in mind ?
http://www.geocities.com/ourredearth/plastic.html
Yes: that's why it's the leading article on this site.
http://www.newagefraud.org
I'd like to know what exactly are the 'spiritual duties' Olav claims to undertake to raise money, and what the people at nativeprogress.org and on the res know about that. Also I'd like to know exactly who are the people he brings to Norway to conduct ceremonies? As I'm sure you're aware there are many Indians and pseudo-Indians who work the European circuit to make a buck. Since Olav appears to believe that Robert Ghostwolf was genuine, his judgment in these matters is questionable.
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First of all, I wish to thank you for allowing us to be moved to the 'Research Needed' category.
Olav ('redheart') is the newest member welcomed into the 'ONE Spirit' organization and your concern is a valid one.
There is a lot of fraud and exploitation and I have seen a lot of it on Pine Ridge Reservation.
Since I do not speak for the director of 'ONE Spirit', please allow me to relate your generous offer of hearing about our organization to her and she should be able to respond to your questions shortly.
Sincerely,
Leonard Melton.
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Hi again, thanks for moving this topic to the research section, where it should be put in the first place. Thanks also to Leonard for his well formulated posts.
I'd like to know what exactly are the 'spiritual duties' Olav claims to undertake to raise money, and what the people at nativeprogress.org and on the res know about that. Also I'd like to know exactly who are the people he brings to Norway to conduct ceremonies? As I'm sure you're aware there are many Indians and pseudo-Indians who work the European circuit to make a buck. Since Olav appears to believe that Robert Ghostwolf was genuine, his judgment in these matters is questionable.
This topic was started to question if helptheindians.com is a FRAUD or not. The main purpose of helptheindians.com is to collect money for native americans in need, and this topic should focus on the matter, do this organization send the collected money to the native americans or not.
The organizing of workshop/ceremonies are offered as a service. I have problems understanding why Olav should bother explaining his "spiritual duties"to anybody, since he do not advertise these on helptheindians.com. Olav do not claim to be native. He just wants to help!! Olav's personal beliefs and sexual orientation should be a private matter. In my opinion, making fun of Olav is not giving this forum much credit.
PS, I still do not understand what Tsisqua's post is doing here, since it has nothing to do with helptheindians.com.
Can Mr. McEwan please answer me in what way Tsisqua answers that question in her post?
Blessings from Birger
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Actually you're wrong Birger. The topic was always about Mr. Husby AKA "Redheart" and his posing as a spiritual leader, healer, or ceremony seller of alleged Native traditions. That's what this forum is about. It only became about HelptheIndians.com because Husby uses your group to promote himself.
His part in your charity is only a part of what was discussed, (and only because Husby chose to make it appear to be solely HIS charity). If you choose to ignore that, or make the strange claim that his false claims or exploitation of Native traditions somehow don't matter, that reflects very poorly on your organization and also will certainly alienate you from the very people you claim to want to help.
Think of it this way: Would the Jewish community accept help from a charity whose leading representative in a country was a gentile falsely claiming to be a rabbi? One who even did his own version of bar mitzvahs or circumcisions? And one who promoted another imposter as well, as Husby has?
Husby seems to be using your organization to make himself appear legit, and I wonder why that does not disturb you far more. I also have to wonder at why yourself and Leonard are both allowing yourself to be manipulated into speaking for him and thus defending his exploitation and misrepresentation of Native traditions.
Since we know he has joined, let him defend himself here, personally. It's long been a tactic used by spiritual exploiters posing as teachers of Native traditions to get others to do their fighting for them, so they can appear "more spiritual." Quit letting yourself be manipulated by him.
You indicate you already knew about his false claims and exploitation. Why have you done nothing to dissassociate your charity from him?
On two side notes: Tisqua seems to have posted in the wrong thread by mistake. And I was genuinely curious what the heck Husby meant by "shamaness charming". We've had gay members at NAFPS for a long time and don't condone any kind of prejudice.
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Actually you're wrong Birger. The topic was always about Mr. Husby AKA "Reheart" and his posing as a Native spiritual leader, healer, or ceremony seller. That's what this forum is about, if you'd bothered to notice.
His part in your charity is only a small part. If you choose to ignore that, or make the strange claim that his false claims or exploitation of Native traditions somehow don't matter, that reflects very poorly on your organization and also will certainly alienate you from the very people you claim to want to help.
Think of it this way: Would the Jewish community accept help from a charity whose leading representative in a country was a gentile falsely claiming to be a rabbi? One who even did his own version of bar mitzvahs or circumcisions? And one who promoted another imposter as well, as Husby has?
Husby seems to be using your organization to make himself appear legit, and I wonder why that does not disturb you far more. I also have to wonder at why yourself and Leonard are both allowing yourself to be manipulated into speaking for him and thus defending his exploitation and misrepresentation of Native traditions.
Since we know he has joined, let him defend himself here, personally.
You indicate you already knew about his false claims and exploitation. Why have you done nothing to dissassociate your charity from him?
I can't see to have indicated in any way, knowledge of false claims and exploitation. Can you please be more specific about these "false claims and exploitation? " Olav is one of the kindest persons I've met, and I fail to recognize this description of him. Olav do not promote himself, but the cause of helping natives in need.
Birger
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In your own words:
"The organizing of workshop/ceremonies are offered as a service. I have problems understanding why Olav should bother explaining his "spiritual duties"to anybody."
And my very first post quoting from Husby's own website, showing him quoting at length from the notorious fraud and exploiter Robert Franzone, who posed as "Robert Ghostwolf."
Just like Barnaby has already asked:
Will you kindly tell us what alleged ceremonies, workshops, etc Husby is doing?
You acknowledge this is a huge problem. So why do you allow as your representative in one country someone you know is doing wrong?
Or better yet, why do you keep pretending he is not doing wrong, and then avoid answering mine and Barnaby's question several times?
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"The organizing of workshop/ceremonies are offered as a service. I have problems understanding why Olav should bother explaining his "spiritual duties"to anybody."
This was me misunderstanding this topic, I thought the issue was helptheindians.com, not Olav's personal beliefs and sexual orientation.
Can you please explain to me exactly what Olav is doing wrong? After a quick brain scan I still fail to see that I
" keep pretending he is not doing wrong"
Will you kindly tell us what alleged ceremonies, workshops, etc Husby is doing?
Olav must answer this one himself.
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... actually, I just got off of the telephone with Jeri Baker with 'One Spirit' and she observed that there seems to be a lot of negativity on this forum with 'this and that - and - this and that' --- her question was that yes; there is exploitation; yes there is fraud; yes, there seems to be a lot of very negative issues and a lot of exploitation and a lot of negative lists --- "Has anyone ever done anything right ? and do you have any lists of the good people who get it right ?" -- does anyone have a positive list who gets it right ? - we are out here trying - does anyone ever get it right ? - please help us 'see the light' !
Ms. Baker also requests to speak to someone directly - whom ever I had spoken with earlier.
... she asks that I find someone in real authority here.
I take a chance - leonard.melton@yahoo.com
Leonard.
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You are right 'educatedindian' (oh I hope I spelled the name right - I can not see the post names in this little box).
You are right - may I make a suggestion ?
I think it is time for all of us to be silent and let Olav ('redheart') to stand alone and speak for himself.
... actually, before all of this began - 'sox' made an offer as others to hear - but someone else answered for him.
I think it is time for 'Redheart' to answer for himself and silence all of the questions now and ever -
we are waiting, Olav ...
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We are still waiting, Olav.
And Jeri Baker is still waiting for someone to speak directly to you about this whole mess.
Do you wish Ms. Baker to join this 'forum' or do you wish to honor her request for honest conversation ?
-- the choice is yours; but I would suggest that she requests contact and you do not -- so who is hiding whom ?
--- the 'truth' maybe ? let us explore this ...
Leonard.
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I talked to Olav on the phone. He is not home at the moment. He may be able to answer in some hours or tomorrow.
Birger
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I talked to Jeri Baker by phone and she wants to know why everybody is talking about and explaining about Olav, but nothing to hear from Olav ? He does not even answer her e-mails to him requesting his response even to her -- what is wrong with this photograph I want to know ? Has Olav ever made any introduction of himself or a post of anything here ? You have 24 hours, Olav, and after this time period, Jeri Baker said that 'ONE Spirit' will move on to better things.
Leonard.
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... we wait in silence - and only hear the silence - perhaps the silence tells us everything that we need to know ...
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TRY TO BEE A LITTLE TOLERANT. I WILL ANSWER ALL ! I JUST COME HOME ....
PEACE LOVE AND SMILING FACE FROM OLAV IN NORWAY
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Here are some of the results which come up in the google search I had a look at. The nature of Mr Husby's activities is explained quite well in a few ads. Husby apparently not only works as a shaman but also sells ceremonies:
http://www.dreamcatching.dk/product.asp?product=3397&sub=272&page=1
"Description:
Olav Redheart works with shamanism and runs an Indian Support organisation in Norway."
Despite the sites name, it seems to be run by a 'Monague Indian Crafts Ltd.' The intro says e.g.:
"Welcome at dreamcatching.dk
Here you will find an insporing choice of dreamcatchers, medicine wheels, jewelry, and much more. When you have received your products, you will at once realize that this is the genuine stuff. Aöö products in the shop are made or designed in Canada in a company owned 100% by an Indian family who guarantees for the originality and quality of the products.
Please take due note that products can differ slightly as every product is hand made.
'Indians' have been an inspiration for many during childhood. When you buy it now with these products, you can at the same time support the indigenous American population and help their culture survive'.
http://www.alternativ.no/markedsplassen/trommer.html
Alternativ.no is a site promoting e.g. 'complementary and alternative medicine, alternative treatment, holism, environment' and lists persons offering respective treatment, among them Mr Husby:
"Olav Redheart Ramirez Husby - Indian Support Organisation
Indian crafts and drums on order
Shamanism - healing - remote healing - Indian life philosophy - meditation - [another therapy which I cannot translate] - leading the path - drum journeys - ceremonies - workshops
Spritual journeys
tlf: 73 57 19 70, 924 50 999
olav@redheart.no
www.redheart.no"
http://www.alternativ.no/messer/stiklestad/utstillkart.html
This promotes a nuage fair and lists persons participating:
Indian Support Society
Olav « Redheart « Husby
Melhagen,
7070 Bosberg
92450999
olav@redheart.no
Salg av indianerartikler, alternative produkter , t-shirts, engler, kort,m.m. Healing, sjamanisme.
Translation: "Sale of Indian articles, alternative products, T-Shirts, angels, [...] Healing, shamanism"
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... so, did 'redheart' ever show up to explain why he never did show up ? look -- the Lakota people are just like the people that they all are - just like you and me - - we do not need to write books or explain the 'noble savages' - - save that for the 'flea markets'.
we are talking about something more deeply important here.
is we want to get along - we need to quit the 'chase' and quit playing 'Shaman' and the 'outer-space' stuff.
If I can only tell you one thing; 'ONE Spirit' is not for the game, the money, or the 'game' - we are just trying to make the world a better place ( without all of the TV commercials) - and we will 'cut loose' anyone who is not willing to help us all -- because 'we are all related'.
Later,
Leonard.
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Patience is bliss :)
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Leonard and Birger, quit spamming this forum with all kinds of videos and other things unrelated to what we're talking about.
Thanks Ingeborg. It seems pretty clear to me that Husby is a ceremony seller and exploiter. His own websites make that pretty clear.
Leonard, can I take what you say in your last post to mean that your organization would cut all ties with him, based on the evidence of him being an exploiter?
I'd be happy to retitle this thread to make it clearer this is about Husby, and not your charity.
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Oh, Ok, sorry - I was not meaning this to you - I was only trying to make a joke to 'Olav' because he never shows up and makes fools of us all - we really believed and he betrayed us all - please delete this account and delete my hope that anyone can make a difference. I am afraid we are on our own - and I am so sorry that we could not be friends in some other time. My friend Jeri Baker is a good person - so please delete me for any problems that I have caused and forget 'Olav' - just -delete- I just tried and you do not wish it - good bye -
please delete and forgive 'ONE Spirit' as it did not happen.
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Hello,
I am Jeri Baker and the Director of ONE Spirit. I am very respectful of this group and their mission to protect Native Americans, their traditions and culture from exploitation. ONE Spirit is a 501c3 organization of 30 plus all volunteer staff who work with the Lakota people to support their efforts and initiatives. 90% of all donations go directly to the programs and the other 10% is used to pay the accountant, maintain the web site, printing, postage, etc. Our web site clearly outlines our programs so I won't repeat that here. Please look at our web site if you wish more information about the programs - www.nativeprogress.org.
Olav Husby has recently been in touch with ONE Spirit and has made donations to the programs. While he will be on this forum and able to answer questions about himself and his organization, Help The Indians, if you have any questions about ONE Spirit, I will be happy to answer.
When this group is satisfied, I would like to recommend that you also have on your site a list of organizations and people who work closely with Native Americans in an honorable way. I don't know if this is part of your mission, but the ONE Spirit programs established on Pine Ridge provide vital food, heat, clothing, youth programs and some employment for the people there. Other programs that will provide additional employment and services for the communities are being planned. We would appreciate whatever you can do to help publicize the programs and the great needs of the Pine Ridge people.
If you have read this far, I thank you for your time. I look forward to cooperating with you for the benefit of the Lakota people.
Jeri Baker
Director
ONE Spirit
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Hello Jeri Baker. Sorry about the misunderstanding, your organization "One Spirit" looks like an honorable group. The original question was for him just to identify which Nation he was actually supporting by his donations. Somehow it took on a life of its own. The question is not about the charity itself, but the person's other activities. There are several such organizations on different rezs which do similiar work and all are honorable. Keep up the good work. There us a list here for "hellpful people" (cannot think of a better word right now). I don't think it inclludes this type of organization or group, but might be a good idea. Thank you.
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Hi everybody. I hope you are enjoying yourselves talking behind my back and misunderstanding my good deeds. I do not need to explain myself to any of you on this forum, but I choose to do so anyhow.
According my “spiritual duties??? : I do not perform native ceremonies. From time to time I arrange different kinds of ceremonies and workshops for Native Americans travelling in Scandinavia, and these are not “plastic shamans???.
I know native culture and philosophy pretty well, and I am to humble and full of respect, to actually perform native ceremonies myself. I have participated in several ceremonies in America.
I know that Native Americans have been robbed of everything, including their spirituality. I try not to be the kind of man that takes, but gives. Please try to understand my point of view.
I know for sure there is a lot of both natives and others, claiming to be something they are not, also on this forum. Some of the contributors here should perhaps be looking inwards before they show disrespect and judge people they do not know. Judgement is for The Great Spirit only.
My spiritual duties are mainly healing. Remember there are individuals all over the world, in every culture, doing different kinds of healing or other spiritual duties. There is no monopoly for such. But we agree that Native American ceremonies are to be performed by Native Americans only.
I have also been associated with some person I have never heard of, but if it is related to the article at CARE2, I want to say that I do not approve it. That article was found somewhere on the web, and has nothing to do with my philosophy. Maybe I did not read the article well enough to understand the complete content. Anyway it is now removed from my care2 profile.
I have travelled several years, selling genuine native arts and crafts. The profit has been donated. I do not charge any wage or admin fee for myself. I am working from my heart trying to help those in need, and I will continue this work in the future.
I and the Indian support organization aim to collect 1000.000 $ or more this year, and in 2008 we wish to donate the income to build a cultural centre in Allen, Pine Ridge. One spirit is responsible for this project, where the Natives themselves will be building this necessary building. If some of you wish to contribute you are welcome to this at www.nativeprogress.org, or www.helptheindians.com
That is what I got to say about the matter. Those of you who wish to continue discrediting and disrespecting people you have never met, be my guest. I myself got more positive activities to do with my valuable time.
Remember this: What you send out will return to you, that is the law of Karma....
I wish you all peace, love and lots of joy in life.
Best of wishes from Olav Redheart in Norway.
MITAKUYE OYASIN
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Not the most believable defense:
"talking behind my back"
Actually it was you who was doing a bit of hiding, including calling yourself by an "Indian" name.
"I do not need to explain myself to any of you on this forum, but I choose to do so anyhow."
The "I'm too spiritual" defense. And yes you do need to. Your own associates in the charity think so too.
"I do not perform native ceremonies."
No, you perform false versions of them, or mislead people on your site into thinking they are Native. From the websites of yours that Ingeborg found:
Shamanism
- healing
- remote healing
- Indian life philosophy
- meditation - [another therapy which I cannot translate]
- leading the path
- drum journeys
- ceremonies
"From time to time I arrange different kinds of ceremonies and workshops for Native Americans travelling in Scandinavia, and these are not “plastic shamans???.
This must be one of the most ridiculous and egotistical defenses I've ever heard. Are you seriously claiming Natives come to you to be healed?
Or are you admitting to setting up Nuage ceremonies in Europe?
Frankly, given your lack of knowledge, it's more likely that the people you've arranged for ARE plastics.
If so, kindly say who these people are.
"I know native culture and philosophy pretty well"
If you believed in Franzone/Ghostwolf, false prophecies, harmonic transformation, and remote healing, obviousy you don't know Native beliefs well at all. You know Nuage false versions of them.
"I have participated in several ceremonies in America."
Hopefully they were not false or disrespectful versions, though I doubt you could tell the difference.
"Some of the contributors here should perhaps be looking inwards before they show disrespect and judge people they do not know. Judgement is for The Great Spirit only."
Use the word "judge" the way Nuagers do, meaning don't use your brain.
"My spiritual duties are mainly healing. Remember there are individuals all over the world, in every culture, doing different kinds of healing or other spiritual duties. There is no monopoly for such."
Yet you set yourself up as an expert on Native healing, mislead others into thinking you are doing Native healing, and possibly arrange Nuage ceremonies.
"I have also been associated with some person I have never heard of, but if it is related to the article at CARE2, I want to say that I do not approve it. That article was found somewhere on the web, and has nothing to do with my philosophy. Maybe I did not read the article well enough to understand the complete content. Anyway it is now removed from my care2 profile."
That's not believable at all. You endorsed Ghostwolf/Franzone's bizarre fraudulent version of Hopi prophecies. For anyone who knew anything about Native beliefs, even the quickest read would have them shaking their head, saying "What the heck is this nonsense?"
"Remember this: What you send out will return to you, that is the law of Karma."
And if you send out deception?
"Best of wishes from Olav Redheart in Norway.
MITAKUYE OYASIN"
The standard Nuage misuse of that Lakota phrase.
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Jeri Baker, and Olav Husby,
It's a shame Leonard and Birger left. No one had asked them to, they did so on their own.
Once they offered for your charity to have nothing to do with Husby if he would not explain his actions, which they admitted were wrong.
Husby's words are not believable, and he seems to be refusing to answer any more questions. I'd like to urge your charity again to refuse to have him represent you in Norway, and insist he no longer claim to be affiliated with your group.
If he is truly as good hearted as he claims to be, he will continue giving to your charity or raising funds, but without using the name of your charity to promote himself and give the impression it is HIS charity.
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To Educateindian.
It was my intention to let this go, but now I feel I have to respond, since Educateindian has put words in my mouth wich I have not spoken. Since Educatindian also has commented Olav's post with his "doubts" and negativism, I wish to make my final contribution to this thread, in Olav's defence
"Once they offered for your charity to have nothing to do with Husby if he would not explain his actions, which they admitted were wrong.", "Your own associates in the charity think so too."
Why do you put words in my mouth? I have not admitted anything to you. Leonard has nothing to do with helptheindians.com, and as far as I know, not with nativeprogress either. His words are his own.
I challenge you to find evidence proving Olav as a fraud. None of Ingeborg's links are saying Olav is performing indian ceremonies himself.
"I do not perform native ceremonies."
No, you perform false versions of them, or mislead people on your site into thinking they are Native. From the websites of yours that Ingeborg found:
Shamanism
- healing
- remote healing
- Indian life philosophy
- meditation - [another therapy which I cannot translate]
- leading the path
- drum journeys
- ceremonies
"From time to time I arrange different kinds of ceremonies and workshops for Native Americans travelling in Scandinavia, and these are not “plastic shamans???.
This must be one of the most ridiculous and egotistical defenses I've ever heard. Are you seriously claiming Natives come to you to be healed?
This sentence is misunderstood and perhaps wrong english, you have to pardon us norwegians for not writing english fluently. What he means is: he offer help to Native Americans travelling in Scandinavia if they are in need of a local person helping them with practical organizing, and that these are not plastic shamans
"I have participated in several ceremonies in America."
Hopefully they were not false or disrespectful versions, though I doubt you could tell the difference. That's your opinion. Why share your "doubts" since you obviously have no whatsoever knowledge of which ceremonies Olav has attended?
"My spiritual duties are mainly healing. Remember there are individuals all over the world, in every culture, doing different kinds of healing or other spiritual duties. There is no monopoly for such."
Yet you set yourself up as an expert on Native healing, mislead others into thinking you are doing Native healing, and possibly arrange Nuage ceremonies.
Can you please explain where I can find this information? Olav has never claimed to perform NATIVE healing or ceremonies, and he is stating that in his answer. why do you keep repeating something that's not true?
"I have also been associated with some person I have never heard of, but if it is related to the article at CARE2, I want to say that I do not approve it. That article was found somewhere on the web, and has nothing to do with my philosophy. Maybe I did not read the article well enough to understand the complete content. Anyway it is now removed from my care2 profile."
That's not believable at all. You endorsed Ghostwolf/Franzone's bizarre fraudulent version of Hopi prophecies. For anyone who knew anything about Native beliefs, even the quickest read would have them shaking their head, saying "What the heck is this nonsense?" Olav apologize this. If you choose not to believe him, so be it. But that is not an argument.
"Remember this: What you send out will return to you, that is the law of Karma."
And if you send out deception? It is of course bad karma as well. I guess you are insinuating Olav is deceiting the rest of the world and the natives. If you can prove that show me the evidence? Or is this forum the kind that shoots first and ask questions later?
Husby's words are not believable, and he seems to be refusing to answer any more questions. I'd like to urge your charity again to refuse to have him represent you in Norway, and insist he no longer claim to be affiliated with your group. Which questions? All you do is attacking olav without hearing what he's got to say.
Olav is not on trial here. Or is he? How can you INSIST, if you don't have a clue? He has given his explanation, and if you want to label him as a fraud with absolutely no evidence, but based on "doubts" and scepticism, this forum is a fraud itself.
If he is truly as good hearted as he claims to be, he will continue giving to your charity or raising funds, but without using the name of your charity to promote himself and give the impression it is HIS charity.
Olav is the founder of the organization. But he does not stop there. He is on the road trying to inform scandinvians, and help natives in his own way, and donate his profit to charity. He do not represent himself, but the organisation in this important work collecting money.
Olav is not pretending to be a native or perform native ceremonies. But he has dedicated his life to help Native Americans, and some people on this forum want to arrest him for that.Hopefully you got something better to do with your lives than spread lies and negativity towards persons who wish to help the natives. I wish you the best and urge you to make a positive contribution yourself. I will retire for good from this forum, I see no point in further postings.
If this forum choose to label Olav as a fraud so be it. I know for sure Olav is not exploiting Native Amercans, he tries to help.
Good fortune to you all, and goodbye.
Birger
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This is what Ingeborg posted;
"Olav Redheart Ramirez Husby - Indian Support Organisation
Indian crafts and drums on order
Shamanism - healing - remote healing - Indian life philosophy - meditation - [another therapy which I cannot translate] - leading the path - drum journeys - ceremonies - workshops
Spritual journeys
Assuming this is from Olav's website, this in itself is enough to raise some legitmate concerns and discomfort because in all the Native traditions I have ever known, there is a strong feeling that these things should not be advertised.
So right there Olav has changed traditions in a way many Natve people feel is wrong.
It's hard to find opinions which reflect real Native culture on the internet, but here is a few quotes explaining these feelings.
http://www.thepeoplespaths.net/Articles2001/RLAllen-CherokeeStatement-Shamans.htm (http://www.thepeoplespaths.net/Articles2001/RLAllen-CherokeeStatement-Shamans.htm)
By Richard L. Allen, EdD Research &
Policy Analyst Cherokee Nation
Cherokee medicine people and spiritual leaders are known to the Cherokee people and do not practice medicine for a fee nor sell "shamanic" lessons to anyone. They do not advertise their services through any form of media and certainly not over the internet.
http://www.ammsa.com/buffalospirit/February-2000/adviceonpowwowtrail.html (http://www.ammsa.com/buffalospirit/February-2000/adviceonpowwowtrail.html)
Boye G. Ladd
Many times I have seen individuals "showing off" their sundance scars, tobacco ties or amulets hanging around their necks - exposed. When a person carries protection and/or medicine, it should always be hidden and never be spoken about.
Spiritual leaders and medicine men should be considered in the same light. For the true and sincere, their reverence is based on humbleness, dedication and sacrifice. Anytime someone stands before you and claims to be a medicine man, do not believe him or anything he says, because he or she has desecrated their oath of humbleness. You will not find a true and sincere spiritual leader or medicine man teaching in a school or university, or seeking public attention.
http://www.skepticfiles.org/mys4/shamanco.htm (http://www.skepticfiles.org/mys4/shamanco.htm)
(Bob Gufstason is a Warrior of the Mohawk Nation )
our traditional elders do not advertise in the pages of NEW AGE or in Pagan publications. Indeed, our traditional elders are among our most militant political leaders. Many of them urge total separation from the dominant society.
http://www.shadowwork.com/interview-jcrier.html (http://www.shadowwork.com/interview-jcrier.html)
John Crier is a certified Shadow Work coach in Hobbema, Alberta, Canada, as well as a mentor to adults and young people within and beyond the Cree community. For eleven years, he has been on the faculty of Maskwachees Cultural College in Hobbema and currently holds the position of Dean of Cultural Studies.
John: In the Native communities, people who do the work of a shaman, or sage, do not advertise themselves openly or even at all. The People have the understanding that those who are not from the aboriginal community are the ones who advertise themselves openly. There's an underlying negative judgment that anyone who is portraying himself as a shaman is only doing it for self-benefit.
There's a history behind that. People who did the work of the shaman a long time ago did not advertise; they did not go intentionally to be a "shaman."
Claiming to want to support Native people but getting angry when people point out that the culture is being damaged through being distorted , seems rather contradictory.
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It was not my meaning to sound angry, but I think it is unjust to say that Olav is exploiting Native Americans.
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This is what Ingeborg posted;
"Olav Redheart Ramirez Husby - Indian Support Organisation
Indian crafts and drums on order
Shamanism - healing - remote healing - Indian life philosophy - meditation - [another therapy which I cannot translate] - leading the path - drum journeys - ceremonies - workshops
Spritual journeys
Assuming this is from Olav's website, this in itself is enough to raise some legitmate concerns and discomfort because in all the Native traditions I have ever known, there is a strong feeling that these things should not be advertised.
No, not from Husby's site - these were sites showing up in the google research educatedindian did and posted as a link.
Since you still happen to be on-line, Birger:
This sentence is misunderstood and perhaps wrong english, you have to
pardon us norwegians for not writing english fluently. What he means is: he
offer help to Native Americans travelling in Scandinavia if they are in need
of a local person helping them with practical organizing, and that these are
not plastic shamans
There are commercial sites in Norway and Denmark who list Mr Husby as offering
ceremonies. I wonder whether you mean to say that the owners of these sites
have got this all wrong?
So Mr Husby and you claim he only arranges and organizes events during which
others, presumably Native Americans, perform ceremonies. I'd like to know who
these persons promoted by Mr Husby may be, so can you please give us some
names.
Hopefully they were not false or disrespectful versions, though I doubt
you could tell the difference. That's your opinion. Why share your
"doubts" since you obviously have no whatsoever knowledge of which ceremonies
Olav has attended?
Again: please do tell us with whom Mr Husby did these alleged ceremonies.
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There's so many contradictions in what Birger is saying it's hard to know where to begin:
1. Getting very angry and judgemental just because we are not naive enough to simply take Husby's word for something, yet insisting any show of emotion on our part is the wrong thing to do.
2. Insisting that what Husby says is "proof," but what Natives have to say is "only opinion."
3. And of course denying the words said by Leonard and Birger.
"I have not admitted anything to you."
And yet in Leonard's earlier post:
"I was only trying to make a joke to 'Olav' because he never shows up and makes fools of us all - we really believed and he betrayed us all."
Like you say, perhaps these problems were caused by English being your second language.
4. Later on you claim:
"All you do is attacking olav without hearing what he's got to say."
Oh brother. Both you and Husby think getting angry is enough to defend what Husby is doing, and then ignore the evidence of numerous website.
And the fact that Husby refuses to even talk? That does not make you suspicious?
No, both you and Husby think saying "I'm a nice guy, trust me" is all the defense you need.
5. And near the end you say:
"Olav is the founder of the organization. But he does not stop there. He is on the road trying to inform scandinvians, and help natives in his own way"
It's not clear which organization you meant, HelptheIndians.com, or ISO. I doubt you mean One Spirit. In either case, my message was meant for Jeri Baker, to ask her to have nothing to do with Husby since there are still so many questions.
And getting angry and insulting (while insisting Natives have no right to be angry, or that what we say is "just opinion") and then leaving with a show of being offended does not help either you or Husby. It just makes both of you look as though you want to avoid us finding out the truth.
I still say to Jeri Baker, until these questions are answered, please have nothing to do with Husby.
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I want to know where this so called money is going? as a person living on the reservation. Second since when do we have people talking for us in Europe?
Why are Native people traveling to Europe? Why are they doing ceremonies in Europe?
Are there white people in those ceremonies? Why would a white person be a Native ceremonies?
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Birger and Olav - hej, neighbours! I am from Sverige, I have run a charity organisation helping Natives for seven years, so if you don´t mind, I´d like to share some thoughts.
Believe me, when I was new I was picked to pieces and accused of many things - simply because there is a very large amount of people out there making money out of Ndn:s. If you ask me, they have any rights in the world to be suspicious. So it is up to us to prove who we are and what intentions we have.
Now, why do many people get so angry when they are being checked out? If you have nothing to hide, what´s the problem?!.In fact, isn´t it great that Natives are willing to help us so that we get things right?!! I myself had some things pointed out to me that I changed - I was very grateful for that since I just didn´t know…..
We have always had certain info on our website: our final accounts each year, letting people know how much money came in and the expenses. A list of who got donations, how much, and where they can be reached. Name and emailaddress to our accountant. My advice would be to put that up on your site, too.
Mentioning ceremonies and healing…..then you´re on a slippery road. Why do so many people wanting to help Natives talk about ceremonies and spirituality? Why not just raise money?! If you DO get invited in to ceremonies in Native communities run by legitimate leaders, then it is a personal gift that you treasure - and not use as a way to gain fame and fortune. Well, just my way of seeing it…..
None of the Natives I´ve invited to Sweden have had any wish to do ceremonies or healing! They have come to Scandinavia to speak about the issues Natives of today face, most often about the exploitation.
I think you´ve come to the crossroad that all of us involved in “The Indian business??? (LOL) come to sooner or later. The time has come to make the choice: Do you want to gain respect from elders/Elders, spiritual leaders and traditionalists? Or do you prefer the New Age circles and Ndn:s selling their culture? You can´t have it both ways, see…..OK, take your pick, guys!
Lycka till!
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Damn, Freija.... that was very well said!!!
Second since when do we have people talking for us in Europe?
Ummm, some of us live over here...lol
And yes, we are involved in exposing the wannabes and twinkies and frauds for what they are... (lately, things are really starting to heat up with the PowWow "re-enactments" who claim to be putting on "authentic" PowWows with no NDN's present...they don't take being called "re-enactments" lightly. It makes me very angry and upset to see a bunch of white people dressing up as NDN's and putting on these events...) If anyone's on Facebook, http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=7372557106 (http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=7372557106)
Why are Native people traveling to Europe?
Like Frieja said...to speak about the issues Natives of today face, most often about the exploitation.
There's many reasons why Native people come to Europe..even Al has been over here to give talks about this very thing!
Why are they doing ceremonies in Europe?
Most of them aren't...and the ones who do most likely aren't Native (hence places like this forum...lol)
Are there white people in those ceremonies?
Ooooh, yeah......
Why would a white person be a Native ceremonies?
In Europe, probably cause they bought a ticket....
And many other reasons that could take a long time to try and explain...
sox
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http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/?storyID=1191 (http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/?storyID=1191)
Brief article on the German "Indians"....
sox
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... please do not do this thing against my friends - I have very few friends - maybe I have very few friends - but they are my 'life' ...
... please do not do this against 'Jeri Baker' and 'ONE Spirit' ...
... 'Olav' and 'birger' ... please just produce the proof that you do not sell the 'indians ceremony' and everything will be resolved ... This is not a 'public domain' issue - this is an issue of theft of intellectual property right and you have not been given express permission to sell what does not belong to you without permission. The 'indian' people have their beliefs and they have their ceremony that is not your permission to sell. You do not sell the 'pirate' CD of movies - why do you sell the 'pirate' ceremony of 'indian' that you do not even understand ?
Leonard.
<edit>
This 'thread' and others that I read here are really shocking and surprising to me and I am beginning to wonder why and what are the real motives for 'outsiders' and particularly 'white' people to get into the "The Indian business" (LOL) as 'Freija' describes it. I am seriously beginning to wonder what business any 'outsiders' have to do with this ? ... and I am asking this as a 'white' person myself.
... and 'shaman' has nothing to do with 'native american' culture. Siberia is regarded as the locus classicus of shamanism.
Du ønsker virkelig ikke til å gjøre dette, stoler på meg.
Jeg vet om din språk eller din kultur, men jeg ønsker til å prøve til å kommunisere til å forstå noe.
Hvordan kan vi løse dette problemet ?
<edit2> ... we could use some help to buy electric heaters for the people on 'Pine Ridge' - I live in a 'trailer' in New Hampshire (USA) in a similar climate condition and the electric heaters work fine for me - any help would work fine to help the people with few things and little money. ... please talk to 'robert running bear' with energy assistance on 'pine', jeri baker, or 'running strong' for any further information. ... it is cold in New Hampshire; I am pretty sure that it is cold on the 'reservations' also. Leonard.
1/29/2008, checked this morning at 07:30 EST and the temperature is - 15 below 'zero' Fahrenheit at many place in South Dakota on 'reservations' - jeri baker tells me the money for the heaters is slowly coming in and the first shipment for 50 is due to arrive this Friday- a far number from the 500 # that the Lakota leaders say that they need. The plan is to place what we can get into the 'Victims Assistance Center' and other community centers so there will be place to gather for people to keep warm.
Leonard.
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four questions to ask your self and others
1 what is your real name so it can be checked
2 who do you represent what nation
3 who will represent you from that nation
4 what is your per purse given you from your nation
the lies are easy to hide but only for a short time ,and now the truth will haunt you for a long time
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... please do not do this against 'Jeri Baker' and 'ONE Spirit' ...
I don't believe anyone is doing or saying anything against Jeri and One Spirit.
I have been dealing with Jeri and the One Spirit organisation for about 4 years now and I can (and will) vouch for her honesty and integrity in what she does for the people of Pine Ridge. No one has any problem with Jeri.
The thread is about Olav and what he is doing in Norway in the name of Native people....
sox