Author Topic: Red Horse Mescalaero Apache  (Read 12481 times)

Offline Diana

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Red Horse Mescalaero Apache
« on: October 04, 2011, 05:04:36 pm »
Saw this over at Blue Corn, anyone ever hear of this guy? Calls himself Red Horse and claims Mescalaero Apache. He's dressed up in one of those big fuzzy headdress and lots "o" fringe. :o Hears a snippet from the article: "Red Horse, a descendent of the Mescalero Apache tribe, spent a day teaching Bayswater West Primary School students about the Native American way of life." Here's a link to the article http://knox-leader.whereilive.com.au/news/story/lessons-in-american-history/

PS. This is in Australia!


Lim lemtsh,

Diana
« Last Edit: October 05, 2011, 01:04:14 am by Diana »

Re: Red Hores Mescalaero Apache
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2011, 07:01:59 pm »
“A lot of the kids didn’t know anything about Native Americans because they don’t grow up with cowboys and Indians the way we did,” he said.

I wonder if that's a misprint.. really odd thing to say imo.
press the little black on silver arrow Music, 1) Bob Pietkivitch Buddha Feet http://www.4shared.com/file/114179563/3697e436/BuddhaFeet.html

Offline nemesis

  • Posts: 526
Re: Red Hores Mescalaero Apache
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2011, 07:11:09 pm »
Quote
About us
Native American Productions was conceived by a reoccurring spiritual vision in 2005 by Red Horses wife, Natalia Rivera. Shortly there after in 2006 Red Horse accompanied Natalia on a trip to his homeland, the United States of America for a holiday.

During the trip the visions grew stronger and were confirmed by a brief, miraculous, unplanned encounter with Chief Bear Who Walks softly from the Cherokee Nation who gave his full blessing and inspired us to continue on the path that was given.

We believe that this dream was our destiny as we could not escape the vision. The vision was of the Native American ancestors repeatedly calling us to educate Australia on this diverse culture. Upon developing this presentation over the past four years the hunger for the knowledge of the Native American Indian by the Australian people has proven this vision to be justified.

                                                                                                                                                 Red Horse and Natalia


http://www.nativeamerican.com.au/Native-American-Productions/about-us.html


Quote
We are excited to provide Australians with an opportunity to take a step back in time and relive the era of the first people of America, the Native American Indian, in the 1800’s

The people of Australia can now experience a unique look into the culture and history of the Native American Indian without leaving Australian shores. You will be taken back in time by Red Horse, a Native American Indian who is a descendant of the Mescalero Apache Tribe, from the Southwest of North America.

Through our entertaining as well as educational workshop you will see a culture that has endured thousands of years. Red Horse will amaze you with the energy, colour and the spirituality of dance and song. He will also captivate and charm you with stories handed down from generations. Many beautiful, handmade museum replica artefacts will be presented along with a 19 foot majestic tipi. Red Horse will give a description on the making and use of each artefact, so you can have a greater understanding and an insight of what everyday life was like for a Native American Indian.

Just arrived, one of the newest extraordinary documentaries on the hardships of the Native Americans will be screened.  

We will be honoured with guest speaker, Jerry Rudat and also performing will be Native American guest artist, Lakoda Robideau.

Make your own Native American artefact and learn how to bead peyote stitch. You will be shown how to cook a Native American meal and learn how to dance like a Native American Indian and so much more.

                         We welcome you to join us for a day you will never forget!!

Morning and afternoon tea, a fantastic Southwestern lunch and refreshments provided.

Taste sensational Bison Buffalo meat.

FULL DAY WORKSHOP - LIMITED SEATS AVAILABLE - BOOKINGS ESSENTIAL

Venue: Kilsyth Memorial Hall - 514 Mt Dandenong Road, Kilsyth.

Time: 10.00a.m. to 5.00p.m. That is a whole 7 hours!

Cost: All this for only $200 - The best $200 you will ever spend!

Phone: 0425 428 088

Date of Workshop: 5th November, 2011.

Thank you to everyone for the fantastic, warm reception given to Red Horse and his wife Natalia at the Mind, Body and Spirit Festival in Melbourne June, 11,12 and 13, 2011. Tickets are selling fast so please don't be disapointed. Book now!

A huge thank you to our dear friends, Tony and Lucy Houseman of 'Golden Seal Herbs and Smudgesticks' for sponsoring us at the festival. They truly do grow and sell the best sage in Australia.

Also many thanks to our wonderful friends, Tony and Julie Norgrove of 'The Sacred Tree', Denmark, Western Australia for their support and also providing the best Native American flutes in Australia. Their huge selection of flutes are made in America at the most affordable prices.  We don't know how they do it but we are so blessed they do. They offer free shipping and a 'How to Play' book and C.D. with every flute purchase. Please visit their website: www.americanindianflutes.com.au.  I promise you will have a great time hearing all the different keys the flutes come in. Great gift idea and you will be surprised at how easy they are to play.

 

http://www.nativeamerican.com.au/Native-American-Productions/workshops.html


Quote
Products

Native American Bone Chokers & Bracelets Made To Order

Smudge Sticks

Sage
 
Sweet Grass
 
Sage kits

http://www.nativeamerican.com.au/Products/

Offline MsWilma

  • Posts: 37
Re: Red Horse Mescalaero Apache
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2011, 06:37:17 am »
oh, for heavens sake. Hi from Oz.
This is literally around the corner   ::)
There are some good programs in our primary schools, being run by indigenous elders with a lot of integrity.
I would imagine that this guy is presenting his stuff as an entertaining history lesson.
The 'Mind Body Spirit Festival' he speaks of is a large commercial event run twice yearly, where lots of new agey people develop their marketing.

Offline MsWilma

  • Posts: 37
Re: Red Horse Mescalaero Apache
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2011, 06:40:39 am »
...before I jump in and call the education dept about his  kids' workshops, what can be made of the claim that he has the blessing of 'Chief Bear Who Walks Softly'?
From all anyone knows over here, that might mean anything....

Offline Superdog

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Re: Red Horse Mescalaero Apache
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2011, 12:18:04 pm »
Well....a quick Google search turned this up.

http://chiefbear.com/

"CHIEF BEAR WHO WALKS SOFTLY
RETIRED PRINCIPAL CHIEF
SOVEREIGN CHEROKEE NATION TEJAS"




He's got a few pics.  Mostly wearing a black (painted turkey feather) headdress and non descript buckskin shirt.  He shows himself administering a funeral and a few other things.  From the look of his site, just about every man in the tribe is a Chief of some sort.  The seal also says "Sovereign Cherokee Nation Tejas:  Created by an act of God"

This seems more like a heritage group than anything.  This guy has no authority to speak for Cherokees so any blessing he gives only speaks for himself, not for Cherokees and not for any other tribe.  Not surprising that this walking Hollywood stereotype Red Horse would accept this man's word as some sort of universal Native endorsement.  I wouldn't necessarily put the blame on Chief Bear though....it's possible they just had a nice exchange and were pleasant to each other and this Red Horse guy took it and ran with it so I don't want to appear to say that this is all his fault, the fault goes to Red Horse for misrepresenting himself.  If he's supposed to be a Mescalero descendant....he sure likes to dress up like he's Lakota.....

Superdog
« Last Edit: October 05, 2011, 12:20:40 pm by Superdog »

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Red Horse Mescalaero Apache
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2011, 12:25:38 pm »
This is the "chief."
http://chiefbear.com/index.html
And the group he's part of.
http://www.texascherokeenation.org/history.php

And this group has been accused in several scams, the first using a seal that resembled the CNO's, and being first created as a tax haven scheme.
http://books.google.com/books?id=TLAJCMI8KNUC&pg=PA26&dq=cherokee+nation+tejas&hl=en&ei=ankgTL-LNIL78Aa9jMFp&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=cherokee%20nation%20tejas&f=false
Note that they also had an insurance scam where they overvalued some dubious items and claimed them as assets to underwrite policies. In one case they issued bonds literally made up on the spot with a typewriter.
They also claimed a gold mine as an asset that turned out to be a parking lot.

More here. The scam extended into the UK.
---------
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/briton-held-over-33m-pounds-fictitious-tribe-plot-1479241.html
Briton held over 33m pounds 'fictitious tribe' plot

From PHIL REEVES in Los Angeles
Monday, 18 January 1993

A BRITISH insurance consultant has been arrested in the US, accused of operating an international insurance scam in which thousands of people were duped out of more than dollars 50m ( pounds 33m).

The FBI believes that Alan Teale, 61, former secretary of the Lloyds Insurance Brokers' Association, was embroiled in money- laundering and a maze of fake transactions. According to the agency there were 5,500 victims.

In 1991, Mr Teale, based in Atlanta, Georgia, was linked by Senate investigators with the organisers of a scheme involving a fictitious Cherokee Indian tribe whose bogus assets were used to prop up reinsurance companies.

He was arrested with his wife, Charlotte Rentz, 52, after a federal grand jury in Mobile, Alabama, named them in a 41-count indictment. The FBI say the scam involved receiving premiums but refusing to pay out on claims.

They are accused of operating through 24 insurance companies and an international network of servicing firms, agencies and brokerages. The indictment says the couple used foreign corporations and bank accounts to sidestep US licensing and accounting procedures.

Most of the alleged victims are from California, where consumers have been driven to offshore companies by high premiums and the often limited cover given by the main insurance companies.

One of Mr Teale's companies sold dollars 54m ( pounds 36m) of insurance in 1990 and 1991 before Californian regulators ordered brokers to stop selling its policies. But, the indictment alleges, when one of his companies was shut down he would start another one.

Mr Teale appears to have been under scrutiny from the authorities since shortly after he arrived in the US 11 years ago. In the mid- 1980s he ran the Victoria Insurance Co which collapsed leaving dollars 20m ( pounds 13m) in unpaid claims.

In 1991, he came to the attention of a US senate sub-committee. It heard that he was associated with the men behind a bogus tribe that used phoney assets to support companies underwriting policies for mainstream insurers.

The purported tribe claimed ownership of a 154-acre sand-bar in the Rio Grande river near the US-Mexican border, which it maintained was created by a divinely-inspired hurricane. Senate investigators found the 'Sovereign Cherokee Nation Tejas' was set up purely to allow its members to operate outside state and federal laws. Its treasurer was identified as another Briton, Dallas Bessant, who used the pseudonym 'Wise Otter'. The sub-committee's deputy chief counsel alleged that Mr Teale and his wife played 'a central role'.

The 'nation' issued dollars 50m ( pounds 33m) worth of treasury bills which were used to back reinsurance companies. This was despite the fact, according to investigators, that the alleged nation was virtually penniless - records showed it was denied credit to lease a car in 1989.

The tribe's other supposed assets included a plaster of Paris mask of Marlon Brando valued at dollars 1.5m ( pounds 1m), worthless bonds, and deeds to dollars 25m ( pounds 14.7m) worth of precious metals said to be under a car park in Colorado.

'The staff found that the group of individuals who call themselves the Cherokee Sovereign Nation Tejas is neither sovereign, nor Cherokee, nor a nation', the sub- committee's report concluded.

Earlier the 'tribe' was involved in a fracas with pistol-flourishing US marshals, whom they accused of violating their national sovereignty by invading their offices. However, their geography was as shaky as their finances: their supposed homeland was in territory ceded to Mexico years ago.
----------

I think both men are definitely just descendants. The dead giveaway is how they both dress up in Plains NDN regalia. Red Horse is honest enough to call himself a descendant only. Most of what he teaches are ideas common to many tribes, but hardly anything specific to Mescaleros or Apaches.

Take a look at how he dresses in that first link posted by Diana. Now compare it to actual Mescalero regalia at a powwow.
http://www.ruidosotravelnews.com/imagesoct07/powwow.jpg

Or the photos at the bottom of this link, right before the videos.
http://rubystephmatt.blogspot.com/2010/07/mescalero-apache-ceremonial.html

I have seen some Apache who dress in Plains type regalia. That's not unusual, though not accurate. Red Horse is dressing up to fit outsiders' view of NDNs.

Same thing with showing him in a tipi. Mescaleros used to live in wikiups.
http://www.nativi.altervista.org/Apache%20Wickiup%20Camp%20-%201882.jpg

Not so glamorous, right? So even now you'll sometimes see tipis at a Mescalero powwow, like in that link to the ceremonial.

I don't think Red Horse is teaching anything bad. He's not a ceremony seller nor abuser of the type we typically see. The principles he's teaching are not bad at all.
http://www.nativeamerican.com.au/Native-American-Productions/school-sustainability-incursions.html

But they're not Mescalero. They could be common to just about all tribes.

Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: Red Horse Mescalaero Apache
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2011, 05:23:17 pm »

http://www.nativeamerican.com.au/Native-American-Productions/about-us.html
Quote
Make your own Native American artefact and learn how to bead peyote stitch. You will be shown how to cook a Native American meal and learn how to dance like a Native American Indian and so much more.

                         We welcome you to join us for a day you will never forget!!
...

Cost: All this for only $200 - The best $200 you will ever spend!
 

Who knew that non-Natives can now make Native American artifacts? Will they also bury them in the ground, then "discover" them and sell them to museums?

Buy your tickets now, it's the Pretendian Farm!TM Churning out shinier, happier, more "authentic" pretendians every year!  < / sarcasm >