General > Research Needed

International Council of 13 Indigenous Grandmothers (aka the 13 Pay to Pray Old Ladies)

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 I was emailed this and have not heard of them.
AND . As I will be gone for a while am unable to research, anybody know anything????? :o ::)

Just read the link concerning the sundance. Found it very dusturbing.
Our family has been hosting a sundance in south dakota for a long time (20 plus yrs)
My husband and I leave for our ceremonies on Tuesday. Our ceremony is small and primitive. It is very hard. We are a poor people without very many luxurys in life and still we welcome and feed any who come looking.....all for about $800.00 total...we have no porta potties just outhouses, our drum comes from the family free, the tribe gives us water, the men cut wood, make repairs, etc of their own free will, the woman work very hard in the heat preparing meals, usually soup and fry bread and coffee, we have been blessed with a propane stove although some special foods are still prepared over a fire. We have no electricity or running water.
We personally scrimp and save and some times get modest donations($300.00 this year) from our friends to help with the cost of travel. There are times when we have sold personel belongings to cover cost. I currently am trying to sell a turquoise necklace that was gifted to me a few years ago because we find we are $300.00 short on travel expenses. We have no buffer to return home to for bills that pile up while we are at ceremony.
Why do we do this?  it is who we are...we dance so the people, all peoples can have a little longer and easier life. We dance for the health and prosperity of all. So yes I get upset when I see things being distorted unfortunately there are many who through desperation resort to these things. We do not judge them to harshly as their walk is their own be it good or bad. The best advice I can give to those who wish to experience these old ways is to pray from the heart, make sure your reasons are for the good of man not yourself and when the time is right tunkashila will guide you. Follow your instincts if it doesnt seem right to you then it probably isnt. I would ask something from this group and that is for your prayers for a safe journey and return trip to our home...pilamiye sapa

This is a difficult one to make out. On the one hand they seem to be followers of Joseph Rael (Beautiful Painted Arrow) and his sound chamber peace teachings etc.

The second link is calling for donations for a Sundance led by the American Horse family. As far as I know they've run a Sundance for some time and are probably best known for leading the opposition to the Looking Horse Proclamation. But the link claims the dance is in support of Arvol. Yet it also asks for donations, claiming the Oneida Nation was going to film it but pulled out their financial support when that fell through.

I have a hard time the Oneidas would a) want to film it b) sponsor it so they could film it c)pull their money when they couldn't film it. It seems more likely that it's one or two Oneidas who held the purse strings who were doing this. But without knowing more it's hard to say for certain.

And then there's this 13 tribes sponsoring it. Lots of questions.

"To Register:
Rebecca Rodriguez
2158 Triple Peak Drive Canyon Lake, Texas USA 78133
(830) 964-5078
Please send in the enclosed registration form by April 15th
Space is limited-- please register early to get the accommodations of your choice
Airline Arrangements:  For your airline arrangements, we will be using the same trave l agent as before. She has really been helpful in arranging flights that are economical. You will be flying into Rapid City, South Dakota.
Alison Hawthorne Over The Rainbow Travel
CST#1012185-40 (415) 552-8321 (415) 431-3167 - fax
Shuttle or Rental Car Arrangements:
You can arrange for a transport by shuttle from Rapid City Airport to your hotel
in Hot Springs by contacting Kevin at 605-381-7201. It will cost you $25 each way with a 3-person minimum on your van. You can also arrange for rental cars at the airport Please indicate on your registration form which way you’ll be traveling to Hot Springs
and the day you will arrive.
Costs: Public Council Days (June 13,14,15) Lunch and dinner:
Your meals will be served at the Civic Center where the Council will be meeting. A $20 a day fee will be collected through registration to cover these costs. $60 total per person
Tuition: $250 per person
Total cost to register for the event through our registrar Rebecca is $310.
Make checks payable to the Center for Sacred Studies
Room with breakfast & snacks (arriving June12, 13, 14, 15)
Best Western Sundowner Inn 737 S. 6th Street Hot Springs, SD 57747 (605) 745 7378
For Reservations Call 1-877-664-7378
non-smoking double @ $44.50 per person (2 queen size beds)
non-smoking double @ $44.50 per person (1 king size bed)
non-smoking triple @ $31.34 per person (2 queen size beds)
smoking double @ $44.50 per person (2 queen size beds)
We have arranged group rates at the hotel. You will need to contact them directly to make your individual arrangements. Please let them know you are with the Center for Sacred Studies, The International Council of Thirteen Indigenous Grandmothers. Since
there are several events in Hot Springs in June, we could only arrange for a certain number of rooms. Please register as soon as possible to assure your room.
Sundance Time: The Sundance is traditionally offered through a donation basis only. Everyone comes to help serve the Sundancers and support them through their prayers, cleaning facilities, cooking, washing dishes, and whatever else may be needed by those sponsoring the event. Please indicate on your registration form how you would like to support. If you would like to make a donation towards the Sundance you can arrange that through Rebecca when you register.
Meals during this time are prepared in a central outdoor kitchen site on the Sundance grounds. The eating area is located near the camping space. You will be able to eat there on June 16,17,18,19,20, and 21. There are also some good restaurants in this
beautiful little town of Hot Springs. The native peoples of this land consider this holy land. There are natural hot springs in the area. We are gathering information on the local spas and will provide that for you at a later date.
Please let us know if you would like to stay at the ceremonial grounds in the camping area during Sundance time. Indicate this on your registration form. If you are camping, you will need to bring your own tent and camping gear. If you prefer to stay in
the hotel, you will need to change your accommodations to another hotel that is a bit closer to the ceremonial grounds. Rooms with breakfast during Sundance are at the Holiday Inn Express. Rooms can only be acquired here June 16th-22nd. There are a
limited number available. Rooms are approximately $50 for a double occupancy.
Please contact: Holiday Inn Express Email: gm.hsosd@wm.hiexpress Phone: 605 745 4411
Address: 1401 Highway 18, Hot Springs, So. Dakota
Adopt-a-Grandmother: A grandmother fundraising challenge inspired in Mexico, is our Adopt-AGrandmother
program. A number of people have chosen specific grandmothers and pledged to donate the price of their airline tickets to South Dakota. In the past, some have donated for the grandmothers’ travel companions as well. If you would like to participate
in this way, you can contact our office at 209 532-9048 or email us at We invite you to consider this way of contributing to their cause. As a demonstration of unity and collaboration for world peace, we are calling
on everyone to come forward and hold this sacred basket together. Adopt-a-Grandmother Funds need to be received by April 30th in order to make timely arrangements. If you have other ideas or know individuals who would want to help, please contact us.
We are looking forward to this next step in the Grandmothers March for World Peace!! We will be coming to stand with the Sacred Pipe and pray for a world of unity!!
Join us! Thank you for all of your prayers, inspiration and support. See you in the Black Hills!
For the next seven generations and beyond,
Jyoti & Ann Center for Sacred Studies PO Box 745 Sonora, CA 95370 209 532-9048"

And this. Aloysius seems to be the one running the website as well:

"Dear Relatives,
My name is Noelle ********. I am very happy to announce that Aloysius Weasel Bear is offering to teach a class which will be an introduction to Sundance, at my home in Pacifica on Thursday, June 7th, 6-10 p.m. The class will include descriptions of the preparation leading up to Sundance, the Sundance itself and stories about Sundance. Aloysius is a Lakota Spiritualist, the GGGrandson of Sitting Bull and Big Foot, and the son of our Oglala Grandmother Beatrice Long Visitor Holy Dance.
The class is being given to raise money to bring the drummers and singers to the American Horse / Afraid Of Bear Tiospaye Sun Dance in the Black Hills of South Dakota on June 18th-21st. The suggested donation for the class is $50. Those interested in attending may email me at ******@*****.com or call me at (***) ***-****."

I may not be the one to comment on these things because our sundance is run much differently. Ours is a private sundance, invitation only. If you are there as a supporter ie worker than you cannot leave the grounds once ceremony has begone therefore no hotel until after.We offer primitive camping at its best, lol. We do not offer classes on sundance etiquette. It is expected that you learn these things from the person that invited you, or your parents, or grandparents,  and this takes time. Our meals are served from a "communal" pot ie central "kitchen". We do not ask for money for food or anything else. If you can contribute towards something than you will and if not we are just glad you are there to offer the dancers some strength.No ones travel expenses are paid for, you get there the best way you can, this to is part of the commitment. We have had dancers ride a greyhound across many states and back again. For us this is not a site seeing event nor the place for a powwow atmosphere. We have no moon lodge. In the old way if a woman is on her moon she must leave the area therefore there is the possiblity of the additional expense for our woman helpers should they choose a hotel over family housing. I say these things because I do not understand this thing that is being advertised. I believe I read in there something about the calf pipe being smoked at this event a few years back but Arvol wasnt even there. I find this hard to believe. To the best of my knowledge the calf pipe is to fragile to be used and hasnt even been seen unwrapped for many years.I understand this is a specialized event with the grandmothers so maybe steps are in place to maintain the sacredness of the ceremony. Perhaps the throngs are kept away from the dancers. I do not know but I personally would not be interested in attending. There are reasons the masses are kept away and the frauds that are exposed on this site is a good one. People attend something once or twice and become authoritys on the subject. Look out for a new wave of "huh's"....sapa 

I am in agreement with Sapa. I have attended my wife's family sun dance are they are very private and primative also. Without going into detail, I was told by one of her relatives who is a sun dance chief, you don't go around advertising period. It is private for a reason.
I have only been to private ceremonies, that unless you knew the marker, you would never even know a dance was being held at that place.
I myself was a little taken back by the fact that it stated the Oneida's pulled out due to not being able to film it. Hard to believe that the Oneidas would even have a request like that.
As far the the grandmothers group, I haven't read enough to comment on it.


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