NAFPS Forum

General => Frauds => Topic started by: frederica on May 09, 2006, 06:11:58 am

Title: United Cherokee Nation
Post by: frederica on May 09, 2006, 06:11:58 am
I couldn't find if these people were previously listed. But they have a recuiting ad in a East Tennessee newspaper (Tri-State Connection). It states "The United Cherokee Nation is taking applications for you to claim your Indian Heritage. Take pride in your heritage and JOIN us. Application is located on www.theunitedcherokeenation.com or Contact Christy at 423-626-7131 Looks like they are based in Idaho and only costs $35 for an ID card. Run by another Chief Two Eagles.   frederica :'(
Title: Re: United Cherokee Nation
Post by: TrishaRoseJacobs on May 09, 2006, 10:45:44 am
They're another group that tries to dupe people into think that their member ship in what is basically a club for people who may or may not be Cherokee, but have no way/inclination to actually prove it to the recognized tribal standards, means something.

If you look at the cards they issue people it says that the bearer of the card is entitled to all rights and priviledges under American Indian Religious Freedom Act, for example, and they aren't.

Which is why I moved them into the fraud section.
Title: Re: United Cherokee Nation
Post by: William_Graywolf on November 12, 2006, 01:06:14 am
The United Cherokee website list of tribal elders has Ed Lawry aka Red Hawk on their site.  He is NOT a Cherokee but of Mexican descent.  Yesterday the Toano-Norge Times of Virginia ran an article having his picture.  Suddenly he is Chief Red Hawk and he has been hired by the Williamsburg Choral Guild to do a narration.  I quickly contacted the newspaper and told them that the United Cherokee is a fraudulent group and the names of the three federally recognized nations along with names of the chiefs.  The CNO has been notified of this.  My friend and I asked that the newspaper please do an article about frauds such as the United Cherokee and this Chief Red Hawk. 
You can read the article at http://www.toano-norgetimes.com/virtual/Album33.htm on page 12. 
William
Title: Re: United Cherokee Nation
Post by: weheli on November 12, 2006, 04:36:10 pm
 If you google UCN+ any state you are more than likely find this group in most states as you will also find UPCN. Red Hawk was first chief of the United Free Cherokee Nation out of Florida as was jerry Edwards, there was some trouble and Edwards left and Red Hawk started the UCN as chief, ??? self proclaimed unless he can prove that this postion of "chief was handed down in a traditional way to him. He "resigned" as "Chief" ??? of the UCN and "Two Eagles" became chief and Red Hawk stayed on as an elder. ???

Email him as he is very quick to respond even with all these engagements;

http://www.redhawkspeaks.com/biography.htm

http://www.theunitedcherokeenation.com/id67.html

http://www.theunitedcherokeenation.com/id6.html

http://www.theunitedcherokeenation.com/id60.html

As you will read you can apply to be a "Chief" LOL and than there is $$$$

                                                                         Weheli ;D
Title: Re: United Cherokee Nation
Post by: William_Graywolf on November 13, 2006, 07:26:25 pm
I am attempting to research much of what this Red Hawk/Ed Laughry (Lawry) tells about himself on his website. 
Of the Old Negev Research Institute I can find nothing.  It is not listed in the list of research institutes of the US at http://dmoz.org/Science/Institutions/Research_Institutes
I searched for this institute on altavista search engine, google, yahoo, myweb, msn, ask.com, lycos, giganut, wiseblast, teoma, clusty and A9.  It is not listed on these except for being listed under Red Hawk Speaks website.  It is not listed on the Brigham Young University’s list of research centers and publications. 

Anyone have any idea or suggestion how to find this research institute?   

Meanwhile I am also filling out forms to check his military record and awards.  He claims The Navy Achievement Medal and said he received commendations for serving in Desert Storm and was awarded the Humanitarian Ribbon.  Said he was discharge from the Department of Defense with full honors in 1991.

http://www.redhawkspeaks.com/intro2.htm  He states in his personal introduction:
 Chief Red Hawk is a Cherokee Indian and former Chief of the Bird-Band for the American Cherokee Confederacy of Georgia.  We all know this is a fraudulent band and he is not a member of any of the three federally recognized tribes.  In fact, he seems to belong to only fraudulent tribes and organizations.

In 2006 Red Hawk received a “Certificate of Training??? in Operations Security and Awareness by the Interagency OPSEC Support Staff.
In searching for this I found :

OPSEC: Management
Solutions providing centralized and simplified security administration along with enhanced tools for security analysis. leader in securing the Internet. It is a market leader in the worldwide enterprise firewall, consumer Internet security and VPN markets...
Neither Red Hawk or his company is listed in OPSEC’s success stories which lists the companies they have successfully worked with.
http://www.checkpoint.com/corporate/success/atoz.html
I have sent them an email asking if they have heard of him or of his company.

He states he is Founder of OPM Management Solutions.  In searching for OPM Management Solutions, I find  The U.S. Office of Personnel Management  listed and they do not know him.  He’s not employed by them.  It is a government agency.  Next listed is : Serena Operations Process Management Solutions, he’s not affiliated with them. 
In fact, when doing a search of this, you constantly come up with the governmental agency of the US Office of Personnel Management. 

His company is possibly one of his own making and is no way affiliated with any government entity and is not sanctioned by them.  It is definitely a misleading statement and certainly can make a person think he has worked for them. 

Winner of the Navy Achievement Medal,  no one WINS this medal it is awarded to those who are not eligible to receive it.  Humanitarian Service Medal is awarded to members of the Armed Forces who distinguish themselves by meritorious direct participation in any significant military act or operation of a humanitarian nature approved by the Department of Defense. The medal is not awarded for participation in domestic disturbances involving law enforcement, equal rights to citizens, or protection of properties.

I have noted that when he recorded having these, he has left out wording.  He says Navy Achievement Medal when it is Navy and Marine Corps Achievement Medal.  He says Humanitarian Medal which is correctly called the Humanitarian Service Medal. 

I am filling out a form to check on these awards with the National Military Personnel Records Center.   

He states he's received two 2004 TELLY Awards.  The Telly Awards honor outstanding local, regional, and cable television commercials and programs, as well as the finest video and film productions.  You can find the list of the 2004 Telly Award Winners at: http://telly.com/winners2.php?pageNum_winners=1&totalRows_winners=219&type=1

25th Annual Telly Awards (2004)
Commercial Winners
25th Annual Telly Awards (2004)
Film/Video Winners

Neither he by his name of Red Hawk, Ed Laughry or Lawry or his OPM Management Solutions is listed as a winner. 

Any suggestions where I can do more research on this man or his statements?  I'm new at this.
William


Title: Re: United Cherokee Nation
Post by: weheli on November 13, 2006, 07:48:07 pm
GREAT JOB William,
I have been trying to get the goods on this fake for a long time. Email me if I can help. I will continue to see what I can also come up with.
                                                                               Weheli :)
Title: Re: United Cherokee Nation
Post by: debbieredbear on November 13, 2006, 08:09:08 pm
William,

If his military stuff comes up frauduent, please consider sending it to the websites that deal with military frauds.
Title: Re: United Cherokee Nation
Post by: educatedindian on November 13, 2006, 09:42:40 pm
I'm pretty impressed too, William. Many of my students don't put this much effort or ingenuity into their term papers. For a first timer, you covered most of the searches one can do. There are also sites to search for public records like zabasearch.com, which will give you addresses and DOB down to the month. Since they're often based on credit reports, the information is not always accurate. There's also Guidestar to check on nonprofits, and whois.com to see who owns a website. Neither of those are always accurate either.
Title: Re: United Cherokee Nation
Post by: William_Graywolf on November 15, 2006, 06:31:20 pm
I received an email today from a man who says his name is Earl Laughry.  Said he is a relative of Ed's aka Red Hawk and said the entire family is ashamed of him.  He is of Mexican descent but American born.  He also confirmed that during the time Ed was stationed in Hawaii, he claimed Hawaiin descent.  He's very ashamed of his Mexican heritage. 
I have also been told that when he first came to Virginia he didn't claim Indian status until after he was here a while.  He's only claimed it in order to promote himself as such. 
My wife called the BIA and was told he can't legally claim any status as an American Indian unless he is enrolled in a valid, federal nation.  She went on to say that those who are enrolled in a valid, state-recognized tribe of the state they live in can legally call themselves Indians.  Many of these are on the rolls seeking federal validation and there are a list of those.
He is not enrolled in any of those or any of the Virginia state Indian tribes or the three Cherokee tribes.  His claim as Cherokee or Indian is invalid. 
William
Title: Re: United Cherokee Nation
Post by: weheli on November 15, 2006, 08:06:15 pm
 ;D Had to post this about Red Hawk, I I I, ME ME ME, what arrogance, although it is good for researching what he says.

Red Hawk Speaks
It's been over 20 years now that people have been trying to accuse me of one thing or another, how sad no one has every come up with any proof on any of these lies. I'm still moving forward and people just hate it when an Indian get ahead. Let's see, what did I do over the last two years. Hmm, two Native American Music Award Nominations, a letter from President Bush, 4 First Round picks in the 47 Annual GRAMMY, an AMI Nomination. I'm on the same lecturing platform with Colin Powell and the French Ambassador and Judge Joe Brown. I've lecture for the National Security Agency with background checks for secret clearance and still people questioned? I'm the author of 3 book, I have lectured to over 1 million students on cultural programs and assisted in developing a national recognized training program in Diversity. 

Let's try to get the information right, once again!
I only belong to one tribe that's the Eastern Band under the honorable Chief Red Man (Federal). My genealogy goes all the way back to 1100 AD. I'm kind of a genealogy nut, to tell you the truth. A German who immigrated to the US during the Pennsylvania trade married one of my ancestors (Cherokee). I have a coat of arms, it's really cool. OK, I'm getting off the subject. I am currently working on a book about the Otters and James families. Ed Laughrey was my stepfathers name, not mine. He married my mother after my real father passed away. On my birth certificate, drivers license, and social security card all have Red Hawk or in the past Edward Red Hawk. I legally dropped Edward over 20 years ago.

Now for those so call people who "know me," smiling. My sister, wow, that's funny, because I don't have a sister, how strange that someone who claims to be my sister is Mexican. I have two brothers, that's it. Unless my parents did something I don't know about, in another state I don't know about. Every other relative but one brother lives outside VA. Who ever claims to be my sister is lying. I don't have a sister. I hope that clears that up. It would be nice I have to say, but sadly, no sisters.

Second: Some one ask how can I retire from being a clan chief under Georgia's state recognized charter. Easy, I moved on, the tribal fighting, as always, become so bad and corrupted, I wanted no part in that. How sad the only thing Indians can do these days is bash other Indian and make trouble for those who make a difference. There is more corruption in Native Tribes than the US Government, boy we learned from the best.

Third: Some one ask, who authorized me to be a storyteller. What, are you kidding? How stupid can you be and still be part of society. I didn't know there was some governing body, National Organization of Tribal Storyteller's, some 4 year program on storytelling or someone had to get permission from some Federal tribe to tell or write books on Native Cultural Mythology. That's the most stupid, uneducated thing I've ever heard!

Red Hawk out. And please, feel free to contact me directly for any additional information.  ;D ;D ;D :o :o ??? ???
                                                       Weheli


     
 
Title: Re: United Cherokee Nation
Post by: Diana on November 17, 2006, 02:12:20 am
Now I know this guy is really not an Indian, he used the term "Native Cultural Mythology." No self respecting Indian would use the word mythology in describing native culture. He's a fake.
Title: Re: United Cherokee Nation
Post by: educatedindian on November 17, 2006, 03:03:43 pm
His talking about nominations is not too impressive. The NAMMYs have been controversial for decades for all the frauds they nominate, often several every year. A letter from the president? I could get one too, just by asking for a flag that once flew at the White House, which are given away to children of vets all the time, or even sold to whoever has the money. He doesn't say how or why he got the letter. He doesn't deal with all the accounts saying he's an imposter, or used to claim to be Hawaiian, or that these accounts come from uncles, not sisters.
Title: Re: United Cherokee Nation
Post by: Spaewife on March 06, 2008, 12:46:28 am
Same people different chief.  Was asked about on myspace, i posted fraud based on here but thought I'd toss this here.. 

ChiefStoneBear
Male
54 years old
Lake Havasu City, Arizona
United States

O'siyo my relations, I am currently the Principal Chief of the Nation of The United Cherokee Nation (UCN).

We are not a FEDERAL OR STATE TRIBE,

Per our IRS filing we ARE an International Tribal Membership Organization, open to all people of Tsalagi (Cherokee) blood, we do not discriminate as to quantum or to how you look or where or how you were raised.

Please find us at http://theunitedcherokeenation.com

ARE YOU A UNDOCUMENTED, DISENFRANCHISED CHEROKEE?

It has long be prophesied by our ancestors (“The Return of the Buffalo???), that the new century would bring forth many people of Cherokee blood that want to rejoin the heritage that had been hidden from them. Hidden from them because of the fear left from the 1800's when our people were persecuted by the white man. These people coming forth now, maybe with just a drop of Cherokee blood, have been given the spark by the Creator to return to the white path, to learn of their ancestors, of our old ways, and some may want to help in bringing back our history, customs, ceremonies, stories and languages or even to recognize and practice those old ways.

However, heart warming and proud as we may feel about those of you who are on this path, there are still others who reject you. People who have appointed themselves above everyone one else and say they are the Cherokee “Experts,??? and say that they are the real recognized Indians and that you are not. You are considered and called a “Wannbe,??? or a “Twinkie.??? These people who claim they have the knowledge concerning our past are the ones who are quick to point the finger at others and accuse them as being fraud. If our old traditions were the knowledge they really hold, then they would know that to judge and call down another, or even having bad thoughts against another is against our old way teachings. It is wrongful and is also known as bad witchcraft to talk against another and to put them below yourself. When it comes to your being a Cherokee or not, It does not matter how much Cherokee blood you have, it is that you DO have even a drop and that you wish to live your life as Cherokee. This is the old way!

Why then do these “Experts??? degrade those of less blood or those who cannot prove their heritage. It simply comes down to selfish greed and desire for money. Money from the same government that tried to exterminate and genocide our people hundreds of years ago. Some of our cousins think that you are trying to steal their money or government benefits away from them. So, in un- warranted defense, they strike back and call you a fraud. This is a mid-set that has been instilled in our people over hundreds of years by this same government who tried to destroy us. They wanted to illuminate us altogether, and to assimilate us into another race. That did not work, but they did create a mixed race which has caused a separation between us that may never allow us to come back, or at least cause it hard to re-unite. But these Cherokee people coming back to the way are strong, and they won’t give up. All they want is to be accepted, recognized by their own and not by a government. They want to assist in gaining the benefits for our cousins, not to steal those benefits. Most could care less if they are recognized by the U.S. Government, or by a State organized unit, or to be a member of one of the recognized tribes, no...they just want to be accepted for who they are.

All Cherokee, despite how much blood we have, know that we are all related, and to gain anything for our people we must unify, not continue to divide. Call the Cherokee people wanting to return to the white path, “Returning Cherokee,??? “Disenfranchised Cherokee,??? or “Un-recognized Cherokees,??? but do not call them “Wannabes’??? or “frauds.??? Do not look down on them or talk about them behind their backs. Don’t sneer, giggle or laugh at them. Do not refuse to talk to them if they speak to you. Give these Cherokee people the same respect they are offering to you.

These Cherokee People coming back to the ways of their heritage will not let anyone deny them from being who they are, they should not apologize to anyone on the quantum of their blood, or the color of their skin, hair or eyes and let no one deny them that pride and privilege of being a Cherokee. “The Creator gave no man the power to say who any other man can or cannot be???. It should also be recognized that these undocumented Cherokee may also be the descendants of the Cherokee people who fought against the white man, the Cherokee people who refused to be placed in reservations. The Cherokee people who hid out in the hills from the white man and kept themselves “free.??? These Cherokee felt that they had held to their belief of freedom and did not give in or sell out to the white mans government. These were the Cherokee who felt that they were the true Cherokee, the true warriors for our freedom. These people went through a lot to keep hidden from the white man and to be safe from removal. They had to change their names and take on the names of non Indians. They kept no records so that they could not be traced. All family history was by word of mouth. Soon, not even verbal history was spoken under fear of imprisonment. So are ancestors had to hide their pride. It became so bad that soon no one spoke of their heritage and unfortunately, some younger family members were not told of their heritage just so they would be kept safe. Our ancestors gave up a lot just to be free.

During and after the removal of the people, times became very hard. So the government devised yet another way to assist in the extermination of the Indians. The government offered those Indian people their own plots of land and also gave them up to $5000.00 in cash so that they could live and farm their own lands. They even offered them slaves. But this was not without a catch. To do this the government required these families to denounce their Indian heritage and to never speak of it again. The government wanted these Indians to live as whites and because times were so hard for these people, many accepted.

In any of the cases mentioned, they would have never thought that one day we would return to our heritage and find that we couldn’t trace our families because of the secrets. Today, because of that, some of their descendants cannot find a history of their family. Cannot prove, by the white man’s government standards, that they are Cherokee. Our ancestors never thought that we’d have to prove to anyone who we were. Does anyone have the right to put these people down because their ancestors were the warriors who fought against being a prisoner of the white man? No! Actually it should be quite the opposite.

We are our own worst enemies. As long as we continue to separate ourselves, and not acknowledge our other Cherokee people, we will never be united. Until we are united we have not become ONE people and we will continue to lose the strength that we should have as one people. Until this can happen, we will never fulfill what the Creator has taught us. Standup, be proud of who you are. Tell everyone that you are a Cherokee Indian and damn proud to be. Make sure you fill out job applications stating who you are a Native American. Join a disenfranchised Cherokee band or organization in your state. Make a promise to learn the Cherokee traditions, stories and the language and each day, choose a time to practice telling these stories or speaking our language. It is up to us to keep our heritage alive, as one or as a whole, a family, a people. The Cherokees have a very rich part of Americas history which continues today, show your pride in that history. Make your ancestors proud to know you are proud to be their relations. Do not allow anyone to take away your birthright. Stand up and be proud of who you are...you will not stand alone!

CHIEF SMITH ACKNOWLEDGES UNDOCUMENTED CHEROKEE DO EXIST.

In a official news release dated September 22nd., 2000, Principal Chief Chad Smith of the Western Cherokee Nation publicly acknowledged the existence of undocumented Cherokees, but in the same breath, denied their rights to recognition. Appearing in the Cherokee Nation’s web site in September, 2000, Chief Smith stated, “There are people with undeniable Cherokee heritage who don’t meet enrollment requirements. That doesn’t mean they can’t claim their ancestry.??? “Through anomalies caused by ethnicidal policies of the United States Government, the traditional Cherokee Nation has been fragmented.??? said Chief Smith, “That’s why there is an Eastern Band of Cherokees in North Carolina. We are all one people separated by geography. The historical Cherokee Nation is currently headquartered in Tahlequah (OK). But just as a person with grandparents who migrated to the United States from Germany cannot claim German citizenship, people whose Cherokee ancestors emigrated from the Cherokee Nation before the Dawes Rolls were taken cannot claim Cherokee citizenship.

In this news release, one must certainly assume that Chief Smith, who has spoken against un-documented Cherokees in the past, may be accepting them. In the 2000 news release it appears he is offering an open hand to those who simply want to be recognized as who they are, without receiving anything in return, except respect and friendship. So in response we should except this welcome, and if it is false, then it will be between him and the Creator.

Wado
Nvya Yona


Website or Organization

This is the web address of our Tribal Membership Organization, The United Cherokee Nation (UCN).

WE ARE NOT A FEDERAL OR STATE TRIBE.

We are an International Tribal Memebership Organization for all people of Tsalagi (Cherokee) Blood.

http://theunitedcherokeenation.com
Title: Re: United Cherokee Nation
Post by: RavenCrow on March 11, 2008, 02:41:46 pm
We had UCN on our site and my radar went up quick. He also for a job title said he worked in the Tribal Government. Needless to say, when my body begins to coil I know I am face to face with a fraud and fake. My blood boiled. I did extensive research on him and I also called Arizona Tribal Counsel and all the Government involved in State recognized Tribes and hearings. None have heard of him and he also is NOT on the roster as a Tribal Government or Government employee.

I created a Group in RNS because of him called, “Exposing ALL FAKES!???

Here is what I wrote there and I will share it with you all here.


POSTED BY: RavenCrow on Mar 6, 2008    

“Okay I got off the phone with several Tribal Governments Offices in Arizona yesterday, and they never heard of a Steven Phillips aka Chief Stone Bear.

I searched and called every person in the Government and Tribal Government and no one heard of this person. He has Tribal Government down as his job title. Now just because he is a fake Chief does not make him a Tribal Government employee. The people who of naive to how things are would be fooled into believing he is a Chief and works with Tribal Government.

This man is trying to make his organization a State recognized Tribe which never will happen. The reason why is, he claims that no quantum is needed. The use of people writing a letter and claiming to be Cherokee and having it notarized is proof enough.

Anyone with the slightest knowledge of what is will know this to be a lie. He also has an application for people to fill out. On this form is very personal information and allows this fake to have information that can be used for illegal acts like identity theft.

If you have any friends who are on this persons friends list feel free to warn them. I am so fed up with people like this fake Chief to feed off of peoples need to be validated as a Cherokee. There are more out there and I will post them as I get them. People like him should not be allowed to do this but for now the only tools we have is to warn people.???

http://az.gov/webapp/portal/subtopic.jsp?id=2194&name=Arizona+Government&parentID=1165

http://azleg.gov/MemberRoster.asp

http://azleg.gov/MemberRoster.asp

http://az.gov/webapp/portal/alpha.jsp?name=agency

http://azdirect.state.az.us/leg_links.asp

http://ebook.state.az.us/


“I would like to add that this man charges money too. They also do fund raising in the Indian name and supposedly uses it for college funds for supposed children. I have asked him if he gives any money for the real Indian Children in need and he avoids all questions. I am a firm believer of, if you make money using the Indian Culture you should at least give some money to the real Indians.

Now he wants to go to public schools and educate the people on the Cherokee ways and he has no clue. He said that the Buffalo Prophecy was about the Cherokee's and that it is said that all the lost Cherokee's will unite. HOG WASH! Last I knew, that was a Lakota Prophecy.???


POSTED BY: RavenCrow on Mar 6, 2008    

http://www.theunitedcherokeenation.com/




This is what he wrote in "How to become a member" in his site.

“How Can You Join?
To join we need a completed application that has been notarized. Please scroll down to the bottom of this page and print two copies of the application in case of mistakes. When you sign and get the application notarized you are making a sworn statement that you have Tsalagi (Cherokee) Ancestry. In 20 years any document that is notarized becomes a legal court document. Please do not send any un-requested documentation with your application to The United Cherokee Nation (UCN), Your documents remain part of your collection and history.

Take the time to carefully review the application information and make sure you make additional copies of all forms not only for you, should you make mistakes in filling them out, but for anyone you know that has Tsalagi (Cherokee) ties. This is the time for each of us who claim the right to be Tsalagi (Cherokee) to join and to assist in THE "GATHERING" of our people, under one collective international tribal???




This is what was on his Profile in RNS.

"O'siyo my relations, I am currently the Principal Chief of the Nation of The United Cherokee Nation (UCN).
We are not a FEDERAL OR STATE TRIBE.
Per our IRS filing we ARE an International Tribal Membership Organization, open to all people of Tsalagi (Cherokee) blood, we do not discriminate as to blood quantum or how you look or where or how you were raised or even where you ancestor was in the 1800's and if they were counted and put on a roll. We are inclusive of all not exclusive for a few. We welcome all Tsalagi as we are a family of mixed-bloods that are coming back together, nothing more, and nothing less. We even allow non-Tsalagi family members to join with us as Associate members. We now have State Clans in 38 states and in the countries of Canada and Cyprus.
Presently we pay our taxes and do not get any government support, we are a member-supported organization, we have a membership fee and charge yearly dues. We are working toward our non-profit status; we are getting member donations for this cause. Once we receive our non-profit status we will apply for State recognition and grants. Our Eastern Office is in Georgia and our Western Office is in Arizona. If you should have any further questions, please email me.
Please find us at http://theunitedcherokeenation.com
I ask you all to visit our website, email or call any of our Elders or Chief's, read all of the pages that you need to, then make an intelligent decision if you want to join with us or with any other Cherokee organization locally. If you are close by, please visit with us at one of our gatherings. We are very active in some of the traditional home states of the Cherokee, Georgia, Florida, Kentucky, Texas, Oklahoma and Tennessee.
Please do not make judgments on our mission of "The Gathering" without thoughtful prayer. The Creator will always show you the right way if you should ask. If you do not agree with what we are doing, please do it with respect and without hate-full speech toward me or other people that do not agree with you.
I continue to pray to the Creator for the people that want to write hate-full things on this and other internet sites.
We stand strong together in our mission of uniting the Lost Tsalagi. It is important that we all come together as one.
Wado
Nvya Yona

LIKES
Open and Real Communication
Positive people that want to help their fellow man and Mother Earth.
Gathering together with like minded people in Peace and Harmony.
Teaching my children and grandchildren about our ancestors, history, language and culture.
Continuing our mission in spite of negitive people and threats.

DISLIKES
Hate Speech.
Having to delete comments that are hate-full.
Having to block comments from these type of people.

WHAT HE SHOULD SAY IS HE HATES THE TRUTH BEING TOLD ABOUT HIM.
MY DETAILS
JOB: Tribal Government ******************NOT
SMOKE: Socially
DATING STATUS: Married
DRINK: Socially
BODY TYPE: Little extra
MEMBER SINCE: 03/03/2008
STAR SIGN: Virgo
LAST LOGIN: 03/06/2008 01:00:34
ChiefStoneBear


The United Cherokee Nation (UCN)
Male
54 years old
Lake Havasu City, Arizona
United States"

He has been banned and March 6th is when I posted my Group.
Title: Re: United Cherokee Nation
Post by: RavenCrow on March 11, 2008, 02:55:16 pm
I should mention that the Arizona Tribal and Government knows his name and his groups name and all the wannabe fakes so when they go to apply to have a State Recognized tribe the blocks are already there.  Also, I will report all I find to the IRS. There is a second group on my list and I also did extensive research on them and it was a Pagan post I had my first information about the UPCN. Needless to say we all called the Attorney Generals Office and she now has the update on them and will be going after them as we speak and they too will be reported to the IRS. We are working on the ones in Spain and Scotland too for the International Fraud.


In his dis-likes where he said he hates it when people leave hateful comments, yes I am that guilty party. OOPS
Title: Re: United Cherokee Nation
Post by: V Hawkins on April 27, 2008, 02:43:07 am
That "Stonebear" quote was very typical of these fake Cherokee tribes. They all quote the same things. That statement about the importance of having "one drop of Cherokee blood" is extremely popular amogst them. They'll say "One drop of Cherokee blood is precious." My only comeback is usually is that "all the drops of my blood are of equal value." But I always wanted something wittier to say back to them -- I never seemed to come up with anything, tho.

These people always come up with strange names as well. Male "leaders" seem to always want to call themselves "Bear something" or "Wolf something".

As for the Quote from Principle Chief Chad Smith about undocumented Cherokee -- that was in an article written about my good friend, Michael Johnson, the man that really got me down the road of exposing fake tribes. Mike had KNOWN Cherokee blood and his ancestors were not on Dawes. In the article I believe Mike said he was happy not being federally recognized, that he'd tried the fake tribes, and that he'd befriended REAL who knnew about his families undocumented status, and because he had gone about it "the right way" -- not making bold antagonistic statements about enrolled Cherokee, et cetera. Mike used to talk about a way, without making up fake tribes and other nonsense, to allow underdocumented Cherokee to learn of the culture of that Cherokee ancestor that many claim.

We tried to access those fake tribes and they did everything in their power to tear us apart. Eventually we just gave up and quit. Mike passed away last year, but that Chad Smith quote was with respect to Mike and his family as Mike and his family got to know Chad and his family at Cherokee cultural events, and Mike told me about it. I miss Mike.

But these fake tribes and fake tribal groups DO NOT WANT underdocumented people of "possible" Cherokee descent to make contact with "REAL CHEROKEES" as we tried and WERE NOT ALLOWED by these fake chiefs of these groups who are power hungry delusional leaders of their own little cultural cult, NOT a cult of religion, but a cult based on a culture that they make up on the spot, one that never really ever existed except in the minds of all these Chief Stone Bear's -- here are dozens of people like him. They prey on people with a story of a "Cherokee great great grandma", use them, and ceate a great fake revised history, culture,  and values. They all just need to be stopped.
Title: Re: United Cherokee Nation
Post by: nighthawk on June 19, 2008, 08:28:15 am
- removed by author -
Title: Re: United Cherokee Nation
Post by: frederica on June 19, 2008, 02:55:52 pm
The map is new. Here is the old list. http://www.theunitedcherokeenation.com    They have changed hands also. Use to be a Chief Red Hawk, but I think he retired. This group and it's clans actually advertize for members in local newspapers. But I haven't seen that in a while.
Title: Re: United Cherokee Nation
Post by: Defend the Sacred on August 08, 2008, 03:03:38 pm
This group and it's clans actually advertize for members in local newspapers. But I haven't seen that in a while.

Either this group or one like it are also advertising on the Internet. An obnoxious pop-up ad recently suggested ads I might like to put on my blog to make money. One of them was "The Cherokee Nation." Yeah, huh? I didn't click through. Surreal.
Title: The United Cherokee Indian Nation
Post by: BlackWolf on January 19, 2009, 03:33:49 am
The United Cherokee Indian Nation is not a legitimate Cherokee Tribe.  Nor is a single one of their elders and leaders shown on their website recognized by any legitimate Cherokee Tribe, Cherokee Community, or individual Cherokee people.  This group is composed of FRAUDS.  There is only ONE Cherokee Nation and that is based in Tahlequah, Oklahoma.  The United Keetoowah Band of Cherokee Indians also based in Tahlequah, Ok and the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians based in Cherokee, North Carolina are the ONLY other 2  legitimate Cherokee tribes.   


ONLY 3 LEGITIMATE CHEROKEE TRIBES

http://www.cherokee.org/ (http://www.cherokee.org/)
http://www.keetoowahcherokee.org/ (http://www.keetoowahcherokee.org/)
http://www.nc-cherokee.com/ (http://www.nc-cherokee.com/)


The United Cherokee Indian Nation seems to have many of the same members of the United Cherokee Nation (Another fraudulent Group).  They do have a couple of legitimate Native American performers scheduled for their upcoming powwow.  However, the United Cherokee Indian Nation is a FAKE TRIBE!  These people have no right to represent themselves as Cherokees, nor to use the words “Cherokee Nation.??? to represent themselves.  Some of their leaders also do teachings.  These people have stolen the Cherokee name and are misrepresenting the culture of legitimate Cherokee people.  After looking over their website, I’ve concluded that they really seem to be completely clueless about Cherokee culture and heritage.   

http://www.theunitedcherokeeindiannation.com/Tribal-elders.htm (http://www.theunitedcherokeeindiannation.com/Tribal-elders.htm)

They are having a powwow in zephyr hills, Florida in March, 2009. 

http://www.theunitedcherokeeindiannation.com/pow_wow_listings.htm (http://www.theunitedcherokeeindiannation.com/pow_wow_listings.htm)

They also have an ambassador to Europe named Chief Tony "Night Eagle" Angastiniotis.  I can only begin to imagine what kind of misrepresentation has occurred in Cyprus and Europe regarding Cherokee people, culture, and heritage. 
Title: Re: The United Cherokee Indian Nation
Post by: educatedindian on January 19, 2009, 03:55:53 am
Funny how they use images straight off of Franklin Mint plates.

Their "chief" calling himself Red Hawk has already been written about in here before I think. Used to claim to be Hawaiian too. His own family says he's not NDN. Mostly a motivational speaker if I recall right. Why would he be "retired" if this group hasn't been around long and he's about in his mid 40s or so?

What the heck is a so called international elder? And why are they claiming Georgia and even Cyprus have their own "clans"?

They do seem like some fairly lost PODIAs.

----------------
O'siyo to all,
My name is Linda Hatt. My Cherokee name is," Seeker of the Truth". “Seeker???. I live in Sparta Tennessee. I have accepted the position as Tribal Mother for the Tennessee Clan....

As with many of you, I didn't know about my Cherokee heritage until I was 47 years old. I didn't do much about it until 3 years ago....

I Am Seeker

Seeker of the Truth (Linda)

-----------------------

There's also a woman claming to be tribal mother of the United CHOCTAW Indian Nation.
Title: Re: The United Cherokee Indian Nation
Post by: BlackWolf on January 19, 2009, 03:39:35 pm
Yeah, that Chief Red Hawk's a joke. 

And look how much money Red Hawk’s making on his speeches!

http://www.goldstars.com/speakers/red_hawk.html (http://www.goldstars.com/speakers/red_hawk.html)


Then he talks about the Vision Quest and Peyote, but doesn’t mention the Stomp Dance.
http://www.goldstars.com/videos.mv?file=Hawk_Red_M.wmv (http://www.goldstars.com/videos.mv?file=Hawk_Red_M.wmv)


Getting back to the “United Cherokee Indian Nation???, can anybody tell me whats wrong with this picture???
http://www.theunitedcherokeeindiannation.com/Tribal-Chiefs.htm (http://www.theunitedcherokeeindiannation.com/Tribal-Chiefs.htm)
Title: Re: The United Cherokee Indian Nation
Post by: frederica on January 19, 2009, 03:56:34 pm
This group keeps trying to reinvent it's self.  Has changed hands a couple of times.                        http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=732.msg12648#msg12648                                                                                       Mississippi only has the Philadelphia Band of Choctaw   www.Choctaw.org
Title: Re: The United Cherokee Indian Nation
Post by: TRIBALMOONS@yahoo.com on January 20, 2009, 01:39:32 am
Quote
  National & International Principal Chief of Europe (UIN) & (UCIN)

National and International Tribal Elder- The United Indian Nation (UIN) and (UCIN)
Ambassador To Europe for (UIN) and (UCIN)

International Pipe Carrier --- UIN & UCIN
Chief Tony "Night Eagle" Angastiniotis - Cyprus Clan Chief


Heyyyyy I didn't know we had a Cherokee Principal Chief in Europe!!!! Man I wonder if he does Frequent flyer miles. :D
Title: Re: The United Cherokee Indian Nation
Post by: BlackWolf on January 20, 2009, 03:45:30 am
They seem to have their own associated tribe in Europe.  “The United Indian Nation??? European Clans. It looks like they have members in Germany, Austria, and Switzerland.  I wonder what kind of membership they have?

http://www.theunitedindiannation.eu/startseite/ (http://www.theunitedindiannation.eu/startseite/)

http://www.theunitedindiannation.eu/about-the-clan/clan-leaders/ (http://www.theunitedindiannation.eu/about-the-clan/clan-leaders/)
 
As far as the United Cherokee Nation reinventing themselves goes, the “United Cherokee People???, seem to also be connected to them in some way.   
http://www.theunitedcherokeepeople.com/Home.html (http://www.theunitedcherokeepeople.com/Home.html)
Title: Re: The United Cherokee Indian Nation
Post by: BlackWolf on January 25, 2009, 05:00:14 am
Back to Chief Red Hawk.  This is a disgrace what he says here.  He says he's a North Carolina Cherokee, and that "the Cherokees in North Carolina don't like the Cherkoees in Oklahoma".  What a load of crap!  Thats not true.  North Carolina Cherokees and Oklahoma Cherokees are kin.  This statement is offensive and insulting to both North Carolina and Oklahoma Cherokees. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3gWSZ3RrME (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3gWSZ3RrME)
Title: Re: The United Cherokee Indian Nation
Post by: frederica on January 25, 2009, 03:23:16 pm
Here is the thread we had on him. http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=732.0
Title: Re: The United Cherokee Indian Nation
Post by: Defend the Sacred on January 25, 2009, 06:29:32 pm
He says he's a North Carolina Cherokee, and that "the Cherokees in North Carolina don't like the Cherkoees in Oklahoma".  What a load of crap!  Thats not true.  North Carolina Cherokees and Oklahoma Cherokees are kin.  This statement is offensive and insulting to both North Carolina and Oklahoma Cherokees. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3gWSZ3RrME (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3gWSZ3RrME)

Common tactic among exploiters and abusers. It's a way to sow doubt and dissension, and give the abuser an aura of authority (implying that he has the real, inside scoop, and you should go to him to get your questions answered, not those other NDNs). That way, if someone calls real Cherokees and asks about him, he's already planted the idea that the other, legitimate people are the liars, and are just out to get him. It's an attempt to discourage and dissuade anyone from ever checking up on him. It's insurance, an effort to prolong the period of time the abuser can get away with their lies. 

With these types, one has to hope that those who hang around the abuser long enough will realize the ever-mutating and contradictory stories don't make sense. And anyone who lies that much eventually trips over themselves, and exposes themselves.
Title: Re: The United Cherokee Indian Nation
Post by: chief redelk on February 22, 2009, 05:35:33 am
CHIEF REDELK

I can respect and appreciate posters opinions but it is a federal crime to make slanderous afalse untrue accusations on the internet. The  FBI and Internet Crimes Commission ahas assured our tribe that they have posters IP computor addresses and will be obtaining warrents. They have a way of finding out where anyone who posts false accusatuions about people live. They do it daily.

Further Chief Red Hawk and United Cherokee Indian Nation are not fake nor has he ever stated he is hawaiian.

We have filed criminal indictments with the FBI and Internet crimes commission
Title: Re: The United Cherokee Indian Nation
Post by: educatedindian on February 23, 2009, 05:55:43 am
CHIEF REDELK

I can respect and appreciate posters opinions but it is a federal crime to make slanderous afalse untrue accusations on the internet. The  FBI and Internet Crimes Commission ahas assured our tribe that they have posters IP computor addresses and will be obtaining warrents. They have a way of finding out where anyone who posts false accusatuions about people live. They do it daily.

Further Chief Red Hawk and United Cherokee Indian Nation are not fake nor has he ever stated he is hawaiian.

We have filed criminal indictments with the FBI and Internet crimes commission

Hello, wouldn't want you to think you were being ignored.

I don't think you are this "Red Elk."
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=53.0

Instead you seem to be a self proclaimed "Chief Red Elk Thomas" of the "Southeast Chickamauga Cherokee."

Much of what you say is interesting to put it mildly.

1. Not a word of "slander" in anything we've said, and we take great care in putting nothing false and no lies in this forum. That's something neither UCIN nor Ed Laughry AKA "Red Hawk" nor yourself can claim.

2. You can't "file criminal indictments". Only a DA or federal prosecutor can. Obviously there are no such indictments from anyone with the power to make them, or our members would have heard from the feds, which we haven't.

3. No such thing as an "Internet Crimes Commission."

4. I'm sure if you really did contact the FBI, they were not amused by you wasting their time, and only succeeded in getting yourself on their "Pay No Mind" list.

5. And what you just said could be regarded as threatening, except that it's so laughable.


There's also a Tsikimauga Warrior Society he runs. Really love the way you get all your images from Franklin Mint plates. And this is interesting.

http://www.theunitedindiannation.com/News%20Letter.html
"Our news letter member did not do any of the issues, and had to be banished from the society due to her using the society name to obtain a
personal federal grant, which, thankfully she was arrested and did not get.

But, 2008 brought many changes and good things for the society. The society, which has long been under the Southeastern Chickamauga Cherokee Nation is now officially under the SECCN/ And our nation of people is also under umbrella of the United Indian Nation."
Title: Re: The United Cherokee Indian Nation
Post by: BlackWolf on March 15, 2009, 04:35:07 am
Ken Cloud Dancing Andrews

Quote
Hi, My Cherokee  name is Cloud Dancing,, a.k.a. Rev. Ken Andrews Ph.D.  I am a Cherokee style Shaman  My many talents include a Spirit Guide, Healer, registered & ordained Minister (non traditional), also as computer Wizard.

Quote
My great grandmother, considered a Shaman by the Cherokee in the mountains of North Carolina, handed down this gift through my mother before I was born, and told her that I would be born with a veil over my face, as she was, the sign of a Shaman.  I try & hope to use these gifts as they were meant, at all times.


I don't know if this guys been mentioned in here or not.  But he can be added to the list of Plastic Medicine Men!  Thats pretty funny what he says.  "I am a Cherokee style Shaman."  I guess he's trying not to mislead the public.   :D

http://www.theunitedcherokeepeople.com/Tribal-Elders.htm (http://www.theunitedcherokeepeople.com/Tribal-Elders.htm)
Title: Re: The United Cherokee Indian Nation
Post by: GhostBear on March 17, 2009, 12:23:41 am
Well, seems I ticked someone off....I visited the link posted for the UCN and then a link from theirs to another page......both pages had a prayer that has historically been attributed to Yellow Lark from 1887.  On both pages an individual had their copyright below it.  I emailed the webmaster on the UCN page and posted in the guestbook on the other page that it appeared the person was taking credit and please give proper credit.  I was nice about it and not confrontational about it.  The person took offense to my comments and said that if I had been there before I would have seen their copyright belonged to something that had been deleted.  If that were true, then why would it be the same "mistake" on 2 different pages?  My grandmother always told me that guilty dogs barked the loudest.....
Title: Re: The United Cherokee Indian Nation
Post by: BlackWolf on March 17, 2009, 01:21:40 am
Wow, they are pretty touchy.  I just checked the link your talking about, and Runningbear already posted a reply.  My experience with these people in person and in email exchanges are in many cases  a similar story.  They never admit to their mistakes and have a comeback for everything. That’s the problem with these New Agers.  They don’t have anyone to answer to except to themselves and their own egos.
Title: Re: The United Cherokee Indian Nation
Post by: BlackWolf on March 17, 2009, 01:59:13 am
Runningbear has a whole webpage full of so called awards to himself form others.  I can’t really grasp what these so called awards are or what they mean?  Here’s his awards page linked form his main website, Running Bear’s Den.  He also has a lot of poems and sayings that he has signed.

http://www.angelfire.com/ky3/awards/ (http://www.angelfire.com/ky3/awards/)
Title: Re: United Cherokee Nation
Post by: mamaduck33 on March 17, 2009, 10:01:58 am
A 14 yr old girl who is from the EB Cherokee came to me about them last December.  Her Mother is enrolled Eastern Band but neglected to enroll her daughter and she has been in and out of several foster homes away from her family and tribe.  She didn't have a clue on how to enroll in her tribe.  She joined their group on myspace and instead of encouraging her to enroll in her own tribe, they told her that she couldn't since she was no longer living in NC, but that they wanted her to join theirs and told her that they needed her and any other natives who could get proof that they are in fact native.  I became concerned when she told me this and about this group and she forwarded the emails between her and them to me.  They were asking her very personal family questions and even offered to fill everything out for her if she gave them her families info.  They wreak of exploitation. 
Title: Re: The United Cherokee Indian Nation
Post by: frederica on March 17, 2009, 05:08:53 pm
Looks like awards for web design, pretty doesn't always mean substance.
Title: Re: United Cherokee Nation
Post by: BlackWolf on March 17, 2009, 09:49:55 pm
As far as I know, as long as she has at least a 1/16 Blood Quantum and is a Baker Roll Descendant, she should be able to enroll with the Eastern Band.  But since she’s underage, her guardian might have to sign her paperwork.  I would contact the tribe.

http://www.nc-cherokee.com/howenroll.htm (http://www.nc-cherokee.com/howenroll.htm)

Does anyone know the story on enrollment in the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians? Because I have heard conflicting information.  Do children have to be enrolled before a certain date, and/or, is there a residency requirement?   The website does not mention that.  The United Cherokees Nation  tries to present themselves as a Cherokee Tribe for disenfranchised Cherokees all the time.  They often use legitimate Cherokees as token Indians to make themselves look more legitimate. They prey on vulnerable people all the time. 
Title: Re: The United Cherokee Indian Nation
Post by: GhostBear on March 18, 2009, 01:21:59 am
Wow, they are pretty touchy.  I just checked the link your talking about, and Runningbear already posted a reply.  My experience with these people in person and in email exchanges are in many cases  a similar story.  They never admit to their mistakes and have a comeback for everything. That’s the problem with these New Agers.  They don’t have anyone to answer to except to themselves and their own egos.

Oh he even deleted the comment I posted in his guestbook.  Considering it was a respectful request and he deleted it.....I found that amusing.  I personally liked his "questionnaire" to post...the question "Do you have Native American Ancestry?" or something like that.....one posted "I have always felt I did."  No yes the did, but they felt it.

If it was a "mistake" that he had deleted something else and forgot that his copyright was there, why would you make the SAME mistake on another page?
Title: Re: United Cherokee Nation
Post by: mamaduck33 on March 18, 2009, 05:24:13 am
As far as I know, as long as she has at least a 1/16 Blood Quantum and is a Baker Roll Descendant, she should be able to enroll with the Eastern Band.  But since she’s underage, her guardian might have to sign her paperwork.  I would contact the tribe.

http://www.nc-cherokee.com/howenroll.htm (http://www.nc-cherokee.com/howenroll.htm)

Does anyone know the story on enrollment in the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians? Because I have heard conflicting information.  Do children have to be enrolled before a certain date, and/or, is there a residency requirement?   The website does not mention that.  The United Cherokees Nation  tries to present themselves as a Cherokee Tribe for disenfranchised Cherokees all the time.  They often use legitimate Cherokees as token Indians to make themselves look more legitimate. They prey on vulnerable people all the time. 

I am EB on my paternal side and she is allowed to enroll.  She is 1/4 and qualifies to enroll and she doesn't have to live there.  I have given the info to  her new guardian to help him enroll her.  But was completely disgusted that the United Cherokee Nation lied to her and tried to use her. It wasn't out of ignorance of the enrollment qualifications either.  the person in charge of their myspace group and profile stated in the email that they would be willing to do something that they weren't supposed to do to get her enrolled with them and to keep it between them.  very shady.
Title: Re: United Cherokee Nation
Post by: BlackWolf on March 18, 2009, 03:56:44 pm
I think this all ties into the idea of dilution of Tribal Identity talked about by the Wannabe Task Force; 

Quote
False tribes use elements of the names of real tribes in order to confuse the public and bolster their legitimacy. 


The average person in America is not going to know the difference between the Cherokee Nation, the Eastern Band, and the United Cherokee Nation. If I went to my local shopping mall and asked people randomly, I’m pretty confident most, if not all the people, would not know the difference between “True Cherokee Tribes” and “Fake Cherokee Tribes”.  To most people, they would  just all be Cherokee Tribes.  From what I hear, the United Cherokee Nation does a lot of recruitment online, and at their so called cultural events.  Here’s some event they did in Georgia.  When they do events like this, most people just see them as representatives of “a Cherokee Tribe”. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RwWWfBhb4c (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RwWWfBhb4c)
Title: Re: United Cherokee Nation
Post by: AppGal330 on May 07, 2009, 06:42:54 pm
".... German who immigrated to the US during the Pennsylvania trade married one of my ancestors (Cherokee). I have a coat of arms, it's really cool. "

Well, there's a common 'blooper' made by people that are doing geneological research. Probably got the "coat of arms" from some huckster org. that prints them en mass and prints your family name on them. Coats of arms were not given to entire families--but to individuals! You could say something like "my g.g.uncle William was granted a coat of arms by so & so and i've found a copy of it"...but its not YOUR coat of arms just because you descended from him!

Oh and Raven Crow...good work!!!
Title: Re: The United Cherokee Indian Nation
Post by: BlackWolf on May 29, 2009, 11:46:46 pm

Another Cherokee fraud from the United Indian Nation
Is she kidding or what? 


http://www.cherokeespirits.com/regaliameaning.htm (http://www.cherokeespirits.com/regaliameaning.htm)

She calls herself Red Road Warrior "Rain Warrior".  AKA Erica Milford.  She even when as far as to put up the same silly picture on her myspace page.  What a joke!!

 http://www.myspace.com/rainwarrior1 (http://www.myspace.com/rainwarrior1)

Quote
"I spend a great deal of time reviewing the proper practice of walking the red road. Our heritage is our legacy, what we don't use we loose. I take my heritage into every day I am a traditionalist. I have set up pages that go over our regalia and what a spirit guide is. My mission is to help people to connect and to get to know themselves, the native way."

 ~Rain Warrior

And here she talks about spirit guides. 
http://www.cherokeespirits.com/regaliameaning.htm (http://www.cherokeespirits.com/regaliameaning.htm)



Why do all these Cherokee frauds talk about walking the red road?  These New Age frauds that try to pass themselves off as Cherokee are such a joke! 
Title: Re: The United Cherokee Indian Nation
Post by: BlackWolf on May 29, 2009, 11:49:45 pm

Spirit Guide Link
http://www.cherokeespirits.com/whatisaspiritguide.htm (http://www.cherokeespirits.com/whatisaspiritguide.htm)

She's still young and hopefully still has time to come to her senses, and does not wind up living a lie like the frauds that taught her.
Title: Re: The United Cherokee Indian Nation
Post by: Diana on May 30, 2009, 05:07:54 am
I don't know much about the Cherokee nor do I really care about them, but is this a girl dressed up like a man? Very strange.


Lim Lemtsch


Diana
Title: Re: The United Cherokee Indian Nation
Post by: wolfhawaii on May 30, 2009, 05:10:56 am
It's probably too late already.
Title: Re: The United Cherokee Indian Nation
Post by: BlackWolf on June 18, 2009, 03:27:01 am
Here we go again.  Another Cherokee Shaman. They always talk about not needing paperwork, and not being on goverment rolls, etc.  Its not really about having a CDIB ( Certificate of Degree of Indian Blood ) or not.    Its about how they act, and what they are trying to present themselves as. They weren't raised Tradional, and weren't brought up like that in real Indian communites.  So why do they act like that?  And what poor repesentations they make themselves out to be!  Kind of reminds me of the old Cowboy and Indian movies from the 50's  One would think that in this Information Age and the Internet, that they could at least try to do some basic research.  Sometimes, I like to think that these Cherokee frauds  are really just joking.  But they are not.  I really think some of them need real phycological help.  Why are we the only ethnic group where all this misrepresentation takes place?  I think Educated Indian was on to something he said a while back in reference to some of these fradulent groups being created just to discredit Indian people.  It makes me wonder sometimes.  With us Cherokees, its a damn shame.  The real 3 tribes are like 3 needles in a haystack compared to all these hordes of  fake Cherokee tribes and groups.  I heard there was like 200 or 300 of them running around the country acting like fools. 

Its that they are acting like complete morons and disrespecting the heritage and culture of a great and proud people.  All that they are doing is making a mokery of our heritage.  Look at this clown dressed up in his living room.  Is this dude serious or what? The way these people portray themselves is freakin embarassing to Cherokee people.  Well, thats it for now.  I'm pretty sure I'll come across more misrepresentaion of  Cherkoees. 

http://www.theunitedcherokeeindiannation.com/ (http://www.theunitedcherokeeindiannation.com/)

Title: Re: The United Cherokee Indian Nation
Post by: BlackWolf on June 20, 2009, 11:41:49 am
I noticed somthing on the powwow listing for the United Cherokee Indian Nation that was very disturbing.  They have a powwow that just passed.  But I noticed that on their flyer for that powwow, they have a picture of the official flag of the "Cherokee Nation" in the top right hand corner of their flyer.  Its like they are using the offical flag of the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma to legitimize themselves and promote themselves. Are they allowed to do this legally?  Does anyone here know about these kind of things? Do the flags of Indian Nations of Federally Recognized Tribes have any kind of copyright protection or anything like that? 



 http://www.theunitedcherokeeindiannation.com/html/pow_wow.html (http://www.theunitedcherokeeindiannation.com/html/pow_wow.html)
Title: Re: The United Cherokee Indian Nation/Red Hawk
Post by: William_Graywolf on June 30, 2009, 04:33:34 pm
This man who claims to be chief of this group, Red Hawk, is no different than the group he leads, a fraud.  He came to the Williamsburg area years ago claiming to be a Hawaiian prince/chief/royalty.  Don Harris who is CNO and Dr. Rose Beckmann of the area met him when he was a fake Hawaiian.  He took a job at Fort Cherokee Native American Indian Arts & Crafts store in Williamsburg.  While he was working there, he gave out cards to people stating he was the store owner and Cherokee.  He was also guilty of stealing from the owner who soon fired him and then successfully sued him.  The owner is deceases, but his daughter is not and remembers all of this and has no liking for this fraud.
If you go to
http://www.saponitown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=477&highlight=redhawk
you will find he claims many different nations as his background.  He gives his name as John Poundstone, which it was not.  He used the name because he found it on some rolls and tried to claim an identity with that family. 
When you read this, you will soon know this man is a fake.  He can't deny he posted that, he posted his picture on it. 
Many of us contacted some of the speaking engagements he had and informed them they had hired a fraud.  He threatened to sue us, but of course, he could not since he has no real Cherokee blood. When he joined the Virginia First People's group to go after Dr. Beckmann, he claimed an entirely different family line and had become a full-blood Cherokee.

IMPORTANT: John Poundstone is NOT Ed Laughry and is NOT accused of any of the wrongdoings that Laughry is. They simply used the same name of Red Hawk at different points.


[edited to add "important" note - k]
Title: Re: Ed Lawry/Laughry - Here we go again
Post by: woodowl on August 29, 2009, 04:02:56 pm
He's supposed to be participating in a show in Richmond this weekend. Now he's telling the Richmond Times Dispatch that's he's a member of the Cherokee tribe of North Carolina.  That could only be the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians (the only legit tribe, anyway) and they have no record of him as a tribal member.
I suspect there will be complaints to the paper.  The story was in an article by pop editor Melissa Ruggieri on Thursday, August 27.
Title: Re: The United Cherokee Indian Nation
Post by: BlackWolf on August 29, 2009, 07:42:43 pm
Quote
As you know we are going through many exciting changes. One of the main reasons that the United Indian Nation (U.I.N.) was formed, was to bring all people of Indian Blood together that did not belong to a Tribe.
 

   Therefore we are not going to segregate our people into different Tribes. What we will have is State Clans, Clans that will consist of any Tribe. Example: such as, Cherokee and Sioux may be placed in the same Clan.

http://www.theunitedcherokeeindiannation.com/html/announcements.html (http://www.theunitedcherokeeindiannation.com/html/announcements.html)

So now they are taking it upon themselves to put Cherokees and Sioux in the same clan???  I guess it makes sense, haha (yeah right).  Considering that most of these fake Cherokees poorly immitate the ways of Sioux and Plains Indian tribes.  They are really nothiing but a disgrace and an insult to true Cherokee and Sioux people.
Title: Re: Ed Lawry/Laughry - Here we go again
Post by: AppGal330 on August 29, 2009, 09:57:20 pm
He's supposed to be participating in a show in Richmond this weekend. Now he's telling the Richmond Times Dispatch that's he's a member of the Cherokee tribe of North Carolina.  That could only be the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians (the only legit tribe, anyway) and they have no record of him as a tribal member.
I suspect there will be complaints to the paper.  The story was in an article by pop editor Melissa Ruggieri on Thursday, August 27.
just an fyi...this is not the same guy...this guy really is from Cherokee, i've seen him perform there and he's got a ton of vids on youtube about making different crafts...he's pretty much a regular over there as a performer....guess there's just a ton of folks named Red Hawk out there...lol geesh google the name sometime a gaziiiiillllion hits :o
Title: Re: United Cherokee Nation
Post by: BlackWolf on August 30, 2009, 12:09:28 am
http://www2.timesdispatch.com/rtd/entertainment/music/article/W-GATH27_20090826-195606/288484/ (http://www2.timesdispatch.com/rtd/entertainment/music/article/W-GATH27_20090826-195606/288484/)

I'm assuming this is the story your referring to.  Its well know by now that this man is a fraud.  Anyone can call the tribal enrollment office of the Eastern Band of Cheokee Indians and ask if he is enrolled or not.  I already have.  He is not know in Cherokee communities in NC, nor is he an enrolled member of the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians in NC, nor the Cherokee Nation or the United Keetoowah Band of Cherokee Indians (both based in North Eastern Oklahoma, nor is he decended from any known Cherokee tribal rolls, nor did he grow up in any tradional Cherokee community.  What he HAS DONE is stolen and misappropriated the Cherokee name for personal gain. 

I don't know any Cherokees from NC that say they are members of the "Cherokee Tribe in NC".  They are the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Band_of_Cherokee_Indians_of_North_Carolina (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Band_of_Cherokee_Indians_of_North_Carolina)


Anyone can call and ask for the enrollment office and ask if he is an enrolled member.  Sometimes they may ask you to fax your request in.
Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians
800-438-1601
828-497-8196 FAX

Tribal Government Switchboard
828-497-7000

Just for the record, has anyone really looked into his true heritage?
Title: Re: The United Cherokee Indian Nation
Post by: E.P. Grondine on August 30, 2009, 09:13:11 pm
Why are we the only ethnic group where all this misrepresentation takes place? 

Finally something besides the Walam Olum and Burrows Cave.

I don't have any answers, but I do know some questions.

I don't know how the Cherokee Nation is going to handle it, but there were those who hid out or "passed" during the conquest, and those who moved to other areas, and now their descendants are left with holes in their lives.

The frauds offer to fill those holes, and go on to preying on those with spiritual hunger not satisfied by other religions. Or sometimes it works the other way around, they start with the spiritual hungers, and then go on prey on the stranded.

Until the nations develop some ways for relating to those outside the tribal roles, (and perhaps the Stranded would be better than PODIA, given the currently operating bq rules, etc.), and I have no idea of what they will be or should be, of filling those holes, the frauds will flourish.

Aside from the stranded, what of the European who wants to explore/study Native American spiritual systems?

Every nation will have to face these problems, now and into the future.

When I raised these questions before I was told of the three recognized groups that form the Cherokee Nation. And I know the three recognized Cherokee groups that form that nation have immediate pressing problems, but it appears that this is among them.

It also seems to me that even if you stop one fraud, others will come along, until the fundamental causes are addressed by some means. Again, I have no idea what those means should be, one means or multiple different means. But I can see a need for them.

It would seem to me that some responsible people in every nation need to think through these questions on a fundamental level and try to come up with some  answers.









 

Title: Re: United Cherokee Nation
Post by: oh gee hna luh on September 01, 2009, 07:04:26 pm
I called tribal headquarters attorney generals office in Talhequah, and they didn't seem to be to concerned with these people. That kind of concerned me, they are nothing more than con-artists, and scammers, but they didn't feel they needed to be concerned about them. I'm taking this obviously too personal I guess. I think UCN and others like them are just preying on people who have mixed Cherokee blood. In my case, family research stops at my grandmother, (no she was NOT a Cherokee princess), G Grandfather was illegitemate, and left my grandmother when she was very young. What little they had of him, was destroyed in a flood, so if someone in my situation, who wanted to try to enroll tribally, and couldn't because they could not meet requirements and proove lineage, these voltures are right their waiting for that unknowing person to fill out their application and in 20 years they have a "legal binding court document" as he says. I think that is sick and vulgar and I thnk the guy and others like him need to be locked up, or flogged, which ever comes first.
Title: Re: The United Cherokee Indian Nation
Post by: John Poundstone on December 10, 2010, 11:24:38 pm
In short, your statements with a web link to one of my postings on Saponitown are both absurd and defamatory.  On the message board you have made statements claiming that I am a man known as "Red Hawk"...you even claim that my photo on Saponitown is the the same as his.  I have lived in MN, FL and Africa for the past 20 years.  I have NO connection to Mr. Red Hawk or his lecture series.  So to confuse my families genealogy with his and then use "inconsistencies" in those to call me a fraud or even him is dangerous and ludicrous.  I would not be surprised to hear he sued you and this forum.  I do not know him and will not speak for him.  I speak for myself.  Call Lind Carter at Saponitown as she is easily available via the website and ask her of my identity.  She knows me from numerous long phone calls and knows of my work in Africa and further KNOWS I am not the man you claim in VA. 

I will expect and demand a full retraction of your suggestions that I am him or that he has anything to do with me and my family.  John Poundstone is my ancestor and it is the name given me by traditional naming ceremony within my family (Pounding Stone, as I use Poundstone for short in social settings.)  There are NO Poundstones on any Cherokee Rolls for your information, period.  My Cherokee ancestry is found related to Lucille Little in the rolls and that is only one Great Grandmother of four Great Grand Parents of Indian blood.  My Mother was a Shinob...Ojibwe for you white people who's family live in Rez communities in Northern WI and MN as well as the Twin Cities.  My Father's side who are Pritchards and Poundstones are Shawnee (yes with some enrolled and in OK live and deceased), with a branch of Lakota and the stray Cherokee intermarriage.  We are modern NDN's and City NDN's known in NDN circles in Minneapolis (MN), WI, SD and OK.  Now...who the heck are you?  I trust that you will be honest as to your mistake and remove me and any reference to me in this forum.  What you do here is dodgy at best but maybe someone must do it...There are far too many fake shaman/medicine people out there selling services.  I do NONE of those things and indeed only lecture in metalsmithing classes at universities...not related to Indian arts!  Again remove me from your little verbal war with Mr. Red Hawk immediately.
John NOT...Red Hawk...Poundstone



Title: Re: The United Cherokee Indian Nation
Post by: Defend the Sacred on December 11, 2010, 07:11:08 pm
As Al posted in the other thread:

IMPORTANT: John Poundstone is NOT Ed Laughry and is NOT accused of any of the wrongdoings that Laughry is. They simply used the same name of Red Hawk at different points.
Title: Re: United Cherokee Nation
Post by: Sparks on February 16, 2022, 04:05:11 am
As Al posted in the other thread: …

This is the other thread: http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=797.0
[NO LONGER A MATTER OF CONCERN: Chief Red Hawk aka Ed RedHawk Laughry]
Title: Re: United Cherokee Nation
Post by: Sparks on February 16, 2022, 04:16:56 am
This URL has been cited and referred to several times: http://www.theunitedcherokeenation.com (http://www.theunitedcherokeenation.com).

The United Cherokee Nation is still very active, and is now located at http://theucn.com/ (http://theucn.com/).

Seems that "everyone …" can join: http://theucn.com/becomingamember.html