Author Topic: Fake "Cherokee Tribes"  (Read 15850 times)

Offline educatedindian

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Fake "Cherokee Tribes"
« on: December 17, 2004, 05:29:03 pm »
This is a post of mine from American Indian Alliance, run by our old member Neshoba. I'm reposting it here for the benefit of new members, since there's a good chance either they or someone they know might be in the same boat as the people taken in by these fake "tribes."

----
A lot of these groups frankly *don't* really want recognition. They know they'll never get it because they didn't exist before a few years ago. What the group leaders want is to keep on collecting "enrollment fees" and any other kind of fees they can dream up from a lot of hapless people who lost touch with any Native ancestry they might have had.

Probably the best website I've seen on this issue is Darren McCathern's.
http://www.comanchelodge.com/plastic-shamans.html

And some of these groups are tied to or run by the worst kinds of people. Check out the long list of wannabe tribes at the bottom.
http://www.comanchelodge.com/william-scott-anderson-blue-otter-runningbull.html

More fake "tribes". Be warned, McCathern can get pretty angry in his writing.
http://www.comanchelodge.com/bill-chance.html
http://www.comanchelodge.com/arkansas-indians.html
http://www.comanchelodge.com/northern-cherokee-nation.html

Near the top there's a fake Cherokee "tribe" Hall of Shame.
http://www.comanchelodge.com/cherokee-exploiters.html

A pretty good article on what's wrong with state recognition.
http://www.comanchelodge.com/state-recognized.html

And places to report fraudulent "tribes".
http://www.comanchelodge.com/reporting-fraud.html
http://www.comanchelodge.com/fake-cherokee.html

Frederica Bickle

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Re: Fake "Cherokee Tribes"
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2004, 07:52:11 pm »
I am new to this group. I am glad you posted what you did. I knew some people that were sucked into the Western Cherokee of Ark and Missouri a few years ago. And it did not matter what you told them about what these people were promising was impossible, they didn't believe you. There were promises of free land, (40 acres), to federal recognition given by Hillary Clinton cause her husband Bill was a Cherokee. Well it did blow up, and some exited the group. There were multiple charges leveled at the Chief Lola Schroll, and there was a tribal court. But she is still moving along with the same organization or tribe. The ones that left started another group. Lola Schroll's group was a splinter of one in Missouri to begin with. It's really quite a racket. Thanks

Offline VHawkins

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Re: Fake "Cherokee Tribes"
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2005, 03:09:40 pm »
Al, I know you are a fan of Darren McCathern -- but he has lots of fake history and falsehoods on both his ewbsite and the rootsweb sites he administers. I don't know if you know about my reply to him or not.

http://chickamaugahistoryresearch.bravehost.com/Projects/Darren%20McCathern.htm

http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec?htx=message&r=rw&p=topics.ethnic.natam.nations.cherokee.chickamauga.alabama&m=11

I put a link there to respond to his lies about me. I am administrator of the above as well as

http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec?htx=board&r=rw&p=topics.ethnic.natam.nations.cherokee.cherokeeal

darren McCathern is NOT respected at all by enrolled Cherokee and he deletes posts on the sites he administers at rootsweb.

Please note his rambling petition online calling the Cherokee Nation a fraud basically. I informeed the Cherokee Nation officials of his petition online and that is basically why he wrote those lies about me, wanting to get even.

I never was any of the things he suggested I was. If he lives in Memphis Tx as he says he does, well I am not 50 miles from him. I emailed Comanche Nation people and they told me they thought his website was put up by somebody else, telling me they'd never heard of Darren.

So before you start thinkin of him as something "great", remember Cherokees don't care for him at all -- they say his genealogy methods are horrible, and his history on his ebsite is worse! (paraphrasing), and the Comanche I talked to said they didn't know who he was.

He never showed up, by the way. I did. PLEASE ask anyone at rootsweb who really is Cherokee and a genealogist and ask any of them of Darren's tactics and made up genealogies. Using his as a source of material is not wise.

vance

Offline VHawkins

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Re: Fake "Cherokee Tribes"
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2005, 03:27:33 pm »
http://www.petitiononline.com/cheroark/petition.html

I forgot the link to Darren's petition -- rantings and ravings about the Cherokee Nation -- because he wants HIS FAKE GROUP to have a chance to get recognized.

This petition is the rambling of a crazy man.

vance

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Fake "Cherokee Tribes"
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2005, 09:44:19 pm »
Actually Vance, I recommended some of the articles he wrote on his website, not all of them, not him personally, and not any group he's associated with.

I hadn't noticed what he'd written about you until you pointed it out, and you have a right to be angry. I personally know, as do everyone else who knows you from NAFPS, that what he's saying about you is not true, not even in the slightest.

This dispute between the two of you reminds me of another dispute that happened 3-4 years ago, between a couple people in the old ORE group and a woman who ran one of the Wall of Shame websites. The two sides couldn't stand each other for who knows what reason, and that deteriated with both groups dragging their cause into the matter, both calling each other Nuagers even though everybody else who knew them or anything about the issue knew neither side really was.

When McCathern goes off on a tear he undermines himself. For much of the article about you it's not clear when he's talking about leaders of fraud groups in general, and when he's talking about you, or why he's even including you when he doesn't give anything to back up what he says about you.

Probably the one thing he could point to, but doesn't, is the way you've said several times that "Blue Otter" Anderson knows what he's talking about sometimes with regard to Cherokee history or traditions. Anderson may accidentally include a truthful bit her and there, but that's only if it furthers his End of the World beliefs and website.

The way McCathern's lashed out at you is affecting what you say about him too. I read that petition you point to, and it says that one of the fraud groups doesn't represent Arkansas Cherokees, but nowhere on it did I see him offering any group he's with as an alternative. I don't see any sign he's a Nuager or a leader of a fraudulent group, just like I don't see any sign of that with you.

Like in the case of the ORE group and the Wall of Shame website I mentioned before, just because neither of you are seeing things too clearly when it comes to each other, that doesn't make much of what you write any less accurate or useful to people. I still say much of what McCathern writes on his website is good work at warning people away from all the would be "Cherokee tribes" in that neck of the woods.

Offline VHawkins

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Re: Fake "Cherokee Tribes"
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2005, 08:06:39 am »
Well you put up a link to where he talks about me and I assumed you'd read it.

Well I just emailed him asking him to remove my name from his site or I was gonna sue him. I don't know if that'll do any good.

You are probably right -- I might have gotten carried away . . .

I read Anderson's history and it is about as correct as Daren's, of the Chickamauga Cherokee.

At one time I didn't know how dangerous Scott Anderson was. There was once another fraud-busting internet group that I belonged to and that group tore into Scott Anderson, whom I had contacted many times. This was when he was with that Amonsoquath group and I had that Society of Absentee Cherokee. I was contacting all these fake tribes that are in reality "Societies" or "clubs" of people seeking to find out about Cherokee costoms and heritage, and one person who responded in a friendly receptive manner was Scott Anderson.

One member -- of that fraud busting group was Tuscarora from Canada. He tore into Scotty, and once I knew who Scott was, I distanced myself from him.

http://www.scotlandroyalty.org/

here's Darren's site on Scottish genealogy (above) and on Jewish genealogy (below). He says he's descended not only from Scottish Nobility, but Pictish as well. I think he's related to several English kings as well.

http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/message/an/localities.mideast.israel.general/18

Welcome to the Biography Database!
 Author: Darren McCathern  Date: 30 Jan 2001 12:00 PM GMT  
 Classification: Biography
Post Reply | Mark Unread  Report Abuse   Print Message  
Dear Friends,
This database is dedicated to our relatives whom we wish to post a biography about so that we may share the important events in their life by writing their biographies. Whether you write one yourself, or you post one that is already written, please share these wonderful sources of information about your ancestors.

Thank You!
Israel GenWeb

http://www.rootsweb.com/~txhall/guide.html

Above link is to Darren's Hall County Texas site. There he says --

. . . Both my parents have Cherokee Blood and I am at the very least 3/8 Cherokee, perhaps closer to 1/2 when all is figured to the full blood quantum.

. . .

Several of my Lemley cousins in the year 1856 were taken captive by the Comanche Tribe while living in Erath County Texas. It is believed that it was Chief Petu Nocona (The Father of War Chief Quanah Parker) was the leader of the raiding party that captured my cousins.

Some time later two of my cousins were released by the Comanches, and a short time later, one of the male brothers of the former captives was killed by Comanches in Young County Texas where the family moved in hopes to escape the raids at the time.

You can read the obituary of my cousin Hulda at:

Obituary of Hulda Lemley - Comanche Captive!

My Great Great Grandfather married a Comanche woman after the Civil War, whom gave birth to my Great Grandmother and died when my Great Grandmother was but one month old, probably due to birth complications.

My other Great Great Grandfather was a Texas Ranger and fought with the Comanches on the frontier and could speak several Indian languages as a result of his service. There is a family story about a boy whom had been captured by Comanches at 4 years old when his parents were killed in a raid on their wagon train around 1863.

He later escaped the Comanches at around 14 with the help of some Cowboys taking cattle to Abilene Kansas through what is now known as Wheeler County, not far from where Old Mobeetie town later came into existance. Well as a result of the help of the cowboys, the boy escaped and wandered south for many many miles into a frontier town where my Grandad happened to be on Ranger Duty, and the boy was speaking Indian, as he knew no english.

As the story goes, my GG Grandfather could speak some Indian and spoke to the boy, and the boy explained to him his story and hung on to Grandfather and would not let go, so Grandfather took the boy in to live with him, and the boy when he grew up married my Great Aunt in 1877 and the boy whom was once a captive became my Uncle.

I could literally write a book on the events that shaped my ancestors lives in regards to Cowboys & Indians! . . .

My dad's family was raised in the Chickasaw Nation (when grandma was a child) and we have some similar interesting family stories, but about having to look out for Comanches stealing cattle or horses in the Chickasaw Nation. Our geographical area is close to his, but North o' the Red, not to its South. But my Dad's family was in contact with some of the same Comanche families his was, most likely, if what he is sayin' is true.

Basically I just didn't want anyone who read what he said about be to believe what he was sayin'. But it is typical of a Texan to slander an Oklahoman -- it's just their way -- they can't help it, it's that foul smell in their drinkin' water on the South side o' the Red . . . puts a "braggart, arrogant, lyin " gene in their system.

Well at least now that I know you don't believe what he said I can joke around a little.

vance

Offline Barnaby_McEwan

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Re: Fake "Cherokee Tribes"
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2005, 07:03:41 pm »
Quote
http://www.scotlandroyalty.org/

here's Darren's site on Scottish genealogy...He says he's descended not only from Scottish Nobility, but Pictish as well. I think he's related to several English kings as well.


If I was able to trace my ancestry back to the tenth century I'd probably find that I am too, along with millions of other people. Bow before me, serfs! I'm kind of suspicious of his ability to find evidence going that far back, since the Picts left no written records.

I also noticed his implication that the Picts drove the Roman army from what's now Scotland; I think that claim is suspect. An outnumbered Roman force routed them at the battle of Mons Graupius, auxilliaries from a Germanic tribe doing most of the fighting. The subsequent Roman withdrawal from the north of Britain had more to do with its soldiers being needed elsewhere than their fear of Pictish warriors:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Mons_Graupius

People like him remind me of Vera Duckworth, a comic character in an English soap opera who never passes up an opportunity to mention her 'royal blood', but if I was her, or Darren, I'd want to keep quiet about being related to this arrogant cretin:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4170623.stm
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 12:00:00 am by Barnaby_McEwan »

Offline JosephSWM

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Re: Fake "Cherokee Tribes"
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2005, 02:36:01 am »
Hey Vance,

I have been spednign as much time as I  can reading all the links everyone has included with thier postings. I just read that peition of Darren's about the Arkansas and Missouri Cherokee. Lots of historical inaccuracies.

There were never any Cherokee who by government agreement settled in Missouri. There were however those that did with government agreement voluntarliy move to Arkansas. The Fort Gibson Treaty of 1828 had nothing to do with John Ross or any of those still in old territory. Sequoyah was one of the signers of this treaty. And a price was put on his head for a short while but then recinded.

What this Darren fellow is ranting about is the Ridge Parrty that sold out the whole of the Cherokee nation. When the  national council first met they could not agree to the removal treaty and so when they met again the Ridge party and the US government made sure Ross was in jail and that other leaders didn't show up and so they signed the fate of the whole nation away. The Ridge family and all concerned desreved to die like they did, by assination.

I went to the Rootsweb site and there are a million posting in the archives by someone named Blue Panther. Interesting choice of names. I have seen the word for blue translated as blue and also as panther. There is also a big deal about the Blue Clan. Mooney called it the Panther Clan and thats where the mix up started.

Anyway, there are posting of Cherokee prophecies there. Whether these are real or not I will not say, would not say. Any Cherokee who is privy to our prophecies would not/should not put them in writing nor share them with non-Cherokee. Here is the l;ink to them.

http://www.crystalinks.com/cherokee.html

Here's another  Cherokee tribe I came across. The link is below but here is the first paragraph full of inaccuracies from thier home page

The Southern Cherokee Nation is a Federally Recognized Band of the Cherokee Nation, by an Act of Congress 29 July 1866. The Sovereign Band is headquartered at Webbers Falls Oklahoma, on Tribal Property, with Seven (7) County Jurisdiction in the State of Oklahoma as defined in Article 4 of the 1866 Ratified Treaty located at 14 Stat.799 dtd 29 July 1866, which includes, the following Counties; Tulsa, Washington Rogers, Mayes, Wagoner, Muskogee, and McIntosh.

http://www.southern-cherokee.com/

Anyway, thats all.

Joseph

Offline JosephSWM

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Re: Fake "Cherokee Tribes"
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2005, 02:52:40 am »
One more thing,

This is kinda letting of steam. I just don't get why all these non-Indian people want to be Indians. Are so determined. If they were 1/64 Black what would they do. Nothing I bet. They keep adding insult upon insult to injry upon injury. Can't they leave us alone. What is thier motivation; money? self-esteem? gulit?

Hey, there is one guy here in Baltimore that is enrolled in two state recognized Cherokee tribes, one in Georgia and one in Alabama (which is against the by laws of both) and also claims to be the head of the "Nuyagi Keetowah". His only proof of being a Cherokee is a picture of his mother who looks like she is black and white. He is a pinked skinned, balding white man.

I'm sorry everyone if I went off a bit. It just gets to be very bothersome sometimes

Joseph

Offline VHawkins

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Re: Fake "Cherokee Tribes"
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2005, 01:03:02 am »
Thanks Barnaby --

He says he is descended from King Kenneth McAlpine  whose father was King Alpin of Scotia, and only says his mother was a Pictish Princess.

And what is that Prince thinking with a Nazi arm band?? What do the surviving WW2 veterans in the UK think of that??

vance

Re: Fake "Cherokee Tribes"
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2006, 11:51:49 pm »
Sorry, missed this in Frauds.  Just posted something about this Blue Panther.  He's aligned with Manataka and is an enormous fraud that is all over. Just as prevalent as manataka.
William
William Graywolf