Author Topic: Fake, Wannabe, or Would Be Tribes  (Read 25599 times)

Offline educatedindian

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Fake, Wannabe, or Would Be Tribes
« on: October 31, 2004, 07:04:08 pm »
"Vance Hawkins" <vhawkins@pacer.com>
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 21:47:20 -0000
Subject: [newagefraudsplastichshamans] Re: Cherokee Convention Debates Fake Tribes

   

I once emialed someone in the Cherokee Nation's registrar's office in
Tahlequah. I was told (paraphrasing) "Do you have any idea of the
number of phone calls, e-mail,s letters in the mail, saying 'we just
got our names put on the rolls, now tell me where our Indian money
is?' "

Then the person in the registrar's office has to inform them that
they are sorry, but they never received Tribal Membership in THE
Cherokee Nation, but rather in some group calling itself the
Cherokee/Chickamauga/Tsalagi Tribe/Nation/Band of
Alabama/Georgia/Arkansas/Missouri/Ohio, ad infinitum . . .

And once receiving this "membership" often the first question they
ask is "where is my Indian money?"

vance



--- In newagefraudsplastichshamans@yahoogroups.com, "educated_ndn"
<educated_ndn@y...> wrote:
> http://www.cherokee.org/TribalGovernment/Executive/CCC/claremore.txt
>
>
>            I'll call your attention to another problem
>
>          4  that will arise here.  Whenever there is money
>
>          5  involved -- and rest assured that this is considered by
>
>          6  many people, money, money only.  In fact, we had some
>
>          7  rather very harsh words not long ago, and my wife
stepped
>
>          8  in between me and a guy at the Indian Hospital up here
>
>          9  about that matter.
>
>         10             A man that I had grown up with who had said
>
>         11  some most unkind things about the Welches being Indians
>
>         12  when we went to high school.  In fact, we fought about
it
>
>         13  then, and we almost fought about it up here just
>
>         14  recently.
>
>         15             And I saw him, and I said, "Aren't you
>
>         16  so-and-so," and he said, "Yeah, I know who you are;
>
>         17  you're Butler Welch."  I said, "Yes, I am.  What are you
>
>         18  doing down here; why are you here?"   He said, "I've got
>
>         19  a card number.  I've got a roll number."  I said, "How
in
>
>         20  the world did you ever get a roll number?"  He said, "My
>
>         21  grandfather was so-and-so, and I got a roll number, and
>
>         22  I'm one hundred and one sixty fourth or some such a
>
>         23  matter."
>
>         24             Well, my next remark was one calculated to
get
>
>         25  a black eye.  I resent that.  I resent it.  I'll say it,
>
>
>                          COURTEMANCHE REPORTING SERVICE
>
>                                                               31
>
>
>          1  and I don't apologize for anything that I said.  This
man
>
>          2  and that family grew up in what we used call, "Nigger
>
>          3  Bend," and that's the wrong thing to say, but that's
>
>          4  where they grew up.  And they consistently over the
years
>
>          5  denied that they were any part of Cherokees,
>
>          6  descriminated against them, would not hire them to work
>
>          7  on their property, and now then they're descendents, and
>
>          8  receiving services out here at Indian Hospital, and I
>
>          9  recent it.  I don't like it.
>
>         10             I think it's wrong.  And that's little and
>
>         11  mean and hateful, and I agree that that's the case.  I'm
>
>         12  not going to lie about it that I feel that way.
>
>         13             I don't know how you would go about doing --
>
>         14  what to do.  I just opened Pandora's box that could
cause
>
>         15  litigation for the next twenty-five years, didn't I?
>
>         16  Didn't I, George?
>

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Fake, Wannabe, or Would Be Tribes 2
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2004, 07:05:12 pm »
>         17                      MR. UNDERWOOD:  Well, we've got to
>
>         18  think about it though.
>
>         19                      MR. GOURD:  What is happening in
>
>         20  three places currently in Arkansas, four in Georgia, one
>
>         21  in Kansas, there's Missouri, when you talk about the
>
>         22  issue of money and the potential for fraud, these people
>
>         23  are selling memberships, and they're Red Nation of
>
>         24  Cherokee Indians; there's a whole list of them.  I get
>
>         25  these constantly, and they're charging forty-five and
>
>
>                          COURTEMANCHE REPORTING SERVICE
>
>                                                               32
>
>
>          1  fifty bucks to get a card.
>
>          2             In one group, if you look at your CDIB card,
>
>          3  it says United States -- no, it says Department of
>
>          4  Insured; it doesn't say United States.  But it's an
>
>          5  identical card to CDIB, and then they're showing up here
>
>          6  at the hospital, and people aren't carefully looking at
>
>          7  those cards, and they're getting services.
>
>          8             So, you know, at some point in time, this as
a
>
>          9  separate people, we've got to identify our own citizens.
>
>         10  But this thing of setting up -- I've had people say,
>
>         11  well, why don't we set up some commission that would be
>
>         12  proposed to the Council, the historical documents which
>
>         13  would be acceptable and let people apply under that?
>
>         14                      MR. WELCH:  I don't know, Charlie.
>
>         15                      MR. GOURD:  Years ago I was working
>
>         16  with Suzanne Harjo, and we were raticals then and are
>
>         17  now.  We tried to get a bill through the Federal
>
>         18  Congress, and called it Psuedo Indian Fraud Bill and
make
>
>         19  it a Federal felony of fraud if you said you were Indian
>
>         20  without reference to and received any benefits.
>
>         21                      MR. WELCH:  I forgot that you were a
>
>         22  part of that.
>
>         23                      MR. GOURD:  We had fun with that
one.
>
>         24                      MR. WELCH:  Well, that just
>
>         25  demonstrates the fact that there are other people in the
>
>
>                          COURTEMANCHE REPORTING SERVICE
>
>                                                               33
>
>
>          1  Cherokee Nation who are ratical as I.  I don't feel
>
>          2  nearly as lonesome as I did a moment ago.
>
>          3                      AUDIENCE MEMBER:  Excuse me, but I
>
>          4  have an experience that I went through when I was
working
>
>          5  at the Indian Hospital up here at Claremore.  This lady
>
>          6  come up to me -- I was on the switchboard.  She comes up
>
>          7  to me and she says, "I want an Indian card."  I said,
>
>          8  "Ma'am, we don't issue Indian cards here."  "Oh, yes,
you
>
>          9  do because my dad got one here."  I said, "I'm sorry, we
>
>         10  don't do that.  You'll have to to go to a different
>
>         11  place."  "No, I want an Indian card."
>
>         12             "Okay.  What tribe"?  She thought awhile and
>
>         13  she said, "Cherokee will be all right, I guess."  And I
>
>         14  said, "Ma'am, we don't choose what we want to be.  We
are
>
>         15  already what we were, so if you want to apply for a
>
>         16  Cherokee CDIB card, you'll have to go to Tahlequah.
>
>         17  Creek, you have to go elsewhere.  Chickasaw, elsewhere."
>
>         18  "Well, I was just sure I would get a card here."  And I
>
>         19  said, "I'm sorry.  We don't issue cards here."
>
>         20             But this is the way we're going to let people
>
>         21  say, "Well, Cherokee will be fine.  I'll be a Cherokee."
>
>         22  So I had a good notion to tell her, (Cherokee dialogue);
>
>         23  "What is it you want," in Cherokee.  That would have
>
>         24  confused her.

Offline educatedindian

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Cherokee Nation Position on Would Be Tribes
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2004, 07:48:23 pm »
Vance Hawkins" <vhawkins@pacer.com>  Add to Address Book
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 21:41:00 -0000
Subject: [newagefraudsplastichshamans] Re: State Recognized Tribes, Va, Al, et al

   

Sam,

Thank was a very informative site. Thanks.

I wish websites like yours would get more attention, and the sites of
all the fake tribes would come with a warning lable, like cigarettes
do . . .

vance

--- In newagefraudsplastichshamans@yahoogroups.com, "Sam"
<coolrogue1@y...> wrote:
> Vance,
>
> As far as what the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma thinks about the
> several other Cherokee "tribes" I have a webpage dealing with the
> subject.
>
>
http://www.coolrogue.net/native/manycherokee.html
>
> Sam


Offline educatedindian

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Chief Kodiak/Cyril Mize & "Lumbee of Cali
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2004, 08:47:34 pm »
"educated_ndn" <educated_ndn@yahoo.com>  Add to Address Book
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 15:22:35 -0000
Subject: [newagefraudsplastichshamans] Re: Chief Kodiak/Cyril Mize    
Based on his actual name, Mize possibly could actually have Lumbee ancestry. Or he, like many white Southerners, could have Black ancestry that his family chose to hide by claiming to have NDN in
them.
http://linux.library.appstate.edu/lumbee/16/ALLE001.htm
So I don't think we should argue he's not Lumbee, because we can't be sure at this point. We can and should point to him not being recognized by the NC Lumbee and to his not knowing a thing about his
own culture, or choosing to misrepresent it and himself.
My letters are on the way. I'll post a copy of them in here.

--- In newagefraudsplastichshamans@yahoogroups.com, David T Lowe
<dafydd7916@s...> wrote:
> k.,
> The California corporation is fairly specific that
> they are not associated with the staterecognized N.C.> Lumbee Tribe.  However, they do state  that they are a> fragment of the "Lumbee Indians of N.C. ".  Then, they> claim that they are composed of "Lumbees, Old Cherokee> Bands, Iroquois,  Mission, and many other Native> American people seeking to claim their heritage".  
> I've attached the application form, so you can see
> what it entails.  
>
> Since they do not claim any type of association with> the N.C. tribe, any letter from N.C. stating so is> rather a mute point.  The best ammunition for us is to> be able to provide a good history of the corporation,> and a history of the real Lumbee so we can counter> their claims.  Including the other Indian tribes is a> catch-all for them, and protects them somewhat from> claims of complete fraud (even though it is).  
> I'll see if I can track down a copy of their original
> application for federal recognition, and the resulting> denial.  It's been 20-25 years, so if anything still> exists it must be buried in the dust somewhere.  
> We should also try and come up with any literature> they publish, in order to point out inaccuracies that> pertain to the different tribes and traditions.   I'll> check with the lady that sent the application form and> see if she can pick anything up there.
> I'm working at a disadvantage right now, my home> computer with all my files on Mize, the corporation,> and the Lumbee (and everything else), is down with a> faulty hard drive.  I'm having the hard drive replace,> but will try and save the data.  Meanwhile, I'm> renting a computer.  
> Would love to go to the meeting on the 9th.  However,> I'm a single parent and it will be next to impossible> to get down there.  You'll have quite a drive yourself> - from Little Rock to Springdale, then down to the SE> corner of the state.  
> Let's try to put or heads together and come up with a> unified battle plan to derail this character.  
> Paeslo,
> Dave

Offline educatedindian

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Cyril Mize & Lumbee of CA 2
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2004, 09:14:32 pm »
littlefeatherspirit66" <littlefeatherspirit66@hotmail.com>  Add to Address Book
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 03:31:34 -0000
Subject: [newagefraudsplastichshamans] Re: Chief Kodiak

I've sent an email to the lumbee nation asking for their assistance in contacting Mike Rosses office and a letter to accompany us to the
meeting regarding Chief Kodiak's affiliation with their nation. Here is lumbee nations number; 1-800-659-6585. I will be calling them
tomorrow to make sure someone has read my email.

k. wesho-bauer

--- In newagefraudsplastichshamans@yahoogroups.com, David T Lowe
<dafydd7916@s...> wrote:
> A lady from the El Dorado, AR, area e-mailed me after> she had seen my message to the library there> referencing "Chief Kodiak" (Cyril Mize) and his> "Lumbee Tribe".   She was kind enough to send an> attachment with the "Lumbee" application form.  
>
> Following is part of her e-mail:
>
> "I have just finished reading the e-mail you sent to> the Barton Library, and I agree with you. This "Chief> Kodiak"  moved into the Union County Area about 3 or 4> months ago.  And does have some people fooled. He> joined a church and he has some of those people fooled> into thinking he's a real Indian. The program at the> library, was put on by some other people and he just
> pushed his way into it.
> This "Chief Kodiak" aka Cyril Mize is having a meeting> on October 9, he has someone from Congressman Mike> Ross office coming. Also someone coming to register> people to vote. He is trying to get some grants, and> etc. He is getting people to join his open roll !!!!
> You and I both know that is a scam. I would like to> see a stop put to this but I don't know how to do it.
> I am part Cherokee, I am not a part of any group, I> just kinda stay to myself. What this man is doing is> wrong."
>
> My suspicion is that Mize is seeking further
> respectability for himself and his group of
> pseudo-Indians by gaining connections with the
> Congressman`s office.  I've written Mike Ross through> his website, exposing this fraud and his organization> for what they are.  No response as of yet.  
>
> http://www.house.gov/ross/contact.shtml
>
> I ask that members of this group also e-mail Mike Ross> about their concern with Mize's scam, and Ross's> office's association with him.
>
> The site is set up to direct contacts to
> representatives by Zip Code, so you will have to put> the El Dorado zip  (71730) in your address in order to> reach him.
>
> Other people/organizations that she passed on to me> for contacting, which I am in the process of doing so> - but have not completed - are:    
>
> Bobby Edmonds, Union County Judge El Dorado, Ar. Phone> 870-864-1900/ Fax 870-864- 1902 /
> Email:bedmonds@u...
>
> Don Wales ,President and CEO Chamber of Commerce/ El> Dorado, Ar. Phone 870-869-6113/ Fax 870-863-6115
> Email dwales@b...
>
> El Dorado News-Times/ El Dorado, Ar./ Central
> Switchboard 870-862-6611/ Editorial Department
> 870-862-6610/
> E-mail: eldnews@i...
> Web Site: www.eldoradonews.com
> Caledonia Baptist Church /2192 Wingfield Lake Road/
> Junction City, Ar. 71749 /870-924-5772  (Apparently> the church group Mize has joined).
>
> Anyone interested in contacting the above to warn of> Mize and his phony tribe, please do so.  We need to> get this guy stopped before he does more harm.
> Apparently he has been in that area for only a short> time, but is already entrenching himself and his group> as genuine Indians.  
> Thanks,
> Paselo,
> Dave

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Fake, Wannabe, or Would Be Tribes
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2004, 04:13:56 am »
Bryant" <bryanth@presidiotex.com>  
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 19:09:44 -0000
Subject: [newagefraudsplastichshamans] Jumanos reemerge from history
   
I know these people. They live near here. You all should find this interesting:

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/stories/MYSA091304.1A.jumanoapache.78d53974.html

+++++++++++++++++++++++
West Texans seek official status as tribe
Web Posted: 09/14/2004 03:48 PM CDT
Jesse Bogan Express-News Border Bureau

REDFORD —— Enrique Madrid's black hair hangs near his shoulders for the first time since the 1960s, when he protested the Vietnam War.
Now he wants long braids like Sitting Bull, the 19th-century Sioux leader. "Maybe I will live up to his goodness," said Madrid, 56, a leader in an effort to round up the Jumano Apache people and get them recognized by the government as a tribe.
Recognition could bring some prosperity to a part of the West Texas borderlands that always has been squeezed by the economics of isolation. But proving the Jumanos are a distinct subgroup of the
Apache won't be easy — they disappeared from the historical record around 1700.
"There really isn't any question that the group existed," said Robert Mallouf, director of the Center for Big Bend Studies at Sul Ross State University in Alpine. "It's a matter of being able to trace
them through time. If they can't show continuity from the early historical period into the present, then it may be difficult to get federal recognition. But I am not saying it's impossible."
The Spanish mentioned the Jumanos near here, at the confluence of the Rio Grande and the Río Conchos, in expedition records from the late
1500s, long before there was a Texas or a Mexico.
Some scholars say the Jumanos were absorbed by the Apaches, who themselves were pushed into the area mainly by the Comanches during
the second half of the 17th century.
If recognized by the U.S. Department of Interior's Bureau of Indian Affairs, a Jumano Apache tribe would be headquartered in Redford, govern itself and could attract federal funds and development
projects.
"Hopefully, it will help us overcome what we've had to live with for 150 years as Americans," Madrid said at his home, which is crammed with fossils, photographs, books and a few Mexican and U.S.
flags. "As Americans, we are just poor. We need a better state of being."
There are no schools in Redford, a crumbling crop of trailers, old adobe and cinder block homes clustered on a dry horizon near Big Bend
Ranch State Park. Kids go to school in Presidio, 15 miles away. Unemployment is 22 percent in Presidio County. Median income is half
the state average. The nearest hospital on the U.S. side of the border is in Alpine, 100 miles north.
National attention came to Redford in 1997 when a U.S. Marine on a drug-interdiction training patrol shot and killed a young U.S. citizen tending goats.
"This is one of the poorest places in the United States and one of the most mistreated," Madrid said. "We need a Marshall Plan after the war on drugs. The government defeated us. Now they need to build us up."
County Judge Jerry Agan said he wasn't aware of the goals of the Jumano group.
"It's kind of strange the way they are trying to do it because they haven't asked for our support on it at all," he said. "It just seems kind of far-fetched to me."

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Fake, Wannabe, or Would Be Tribes
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2004, 04:14:59 am »
Jumanos Pt 2

Agan said the Tigua tribe, which has a reservation in El Paso, bought a large ranch near Valentine and is trying to get federal trust status for it, which would bring tax benefits but move it out of the
county's jurisdiction.
"The main thing that really disturbs us with the Tiguas, and if (the Jumanos) try to do it down in Redford, is they wouldn't have to abide or comply by any of our groundwater regulations," he said.
"That's a real hot topic. We are very hesitant about supporting something that would take anything out of local control. They could conceivably set up operations and sell water."
Tigua Gov. Art Senclair said his tribe has no plans to sell water. Neither do the Jumanos, said another of its leaders, Gabriel Carrasco of El Paso.
"We want our identity back," said Carrasco, 64, who restores cars and makes crafts. "And later on, if we are recognized, establish some jobs for the people. We are going to build a culture center as soon as we have money or a grant to do it."
The center would be on 5 acres already donated in Redford. The Jumanos, with 386 registered members so far, also want their own school.
"We don't want a reservation, but we do want to be able to create jobs for the people and restore the community," Carrasco said.
The letter of intent filed by the Jumano Apache tribe with the Bureau of Indian Affairs is one of 200 pending applications from across the country, said Nedra Darling, an agency spokeswoman in Washington.
There are 562 federally recognized tribes, but only three in Texas: the Kickapoo near Eagle Pass, the Alabama-Coushatta in East Texas and the Tigua, also known as the Ysleta del Sur Pueblo.
Tribes benefit from a direct relationship with the U.S. government.
"Like any other local and state government in your area you can ... determine what the needs are for your citizens of the tribe and request those government programs for your tribal members," Darling said. "You might find a need in education, housing, labor, USDA with their WIC program or Indian health."
But the Jumanos will have a tough time reaching that point. Although a 2000 study in the American Journal of Human Genetics supports the notion many in the area are descended from indigenous
Americans, it doesn't identify tribes.
Some Jumanos have relatives registered as Indians in baptismal records in Ojinaga, across the border from Presidio, but no tribe is mentioned there, either, Carrasco said.
"It's not a one day thing, or even a year," said Ignacio Menchaca de la Vega, 65, of San Antonio, who is in charge of the application.
One reason for the hole in the tribe's documented history is a bounty set on Indians in the area in the early 1800s, he said.
"If you said you were Native American, if you said you were Jumano Apache, you were a dead Jumano Apache. Simple as that," de la Vega
said, adding that many of them blended in with Mexicans for survival.
"Now the question is, how can you verify that you are ... Jumano Apache? And that's why we have to go back into history and verify the family tree and (get) information documented."
There is controversy over what language the Jumano spoke or if Jumano was just a general term for "tattooed" or "striped" Indians. Scholars
refer to the many questions as the "Jumano Problem."
Madrid, whose home is a short walk from Indian archeological sites, said that's an "academic problem, not a real problem." His own family
tree and the verbal histories that have been passed down around him are proof, he said.

Offline educatedindian

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Why People Join Fake, Wannabe, or Would Be Tribes
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2004, 09:32:15 pm »
educatedndn" <bigi_again@yahoo.com>  Add to Address Book
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 13:47:35 -0000
Subject: [newagefraudsplastichshamans] Re: new agers adopting ndn children/repurcussions

   
Here's the irony in how the two main groups Nuage frauds abuse react to it: Most whites tend to move on from Nuage after a year or two,
minus their money and dignity and possibly worse, and often still filled with stereotypes and spiritual hunger. But those with distant or small amounts of NDN ancestry, understandably they will hold on
for much longer, maybe their whole lives as Vance points out.

I don't see much chance for them to ever get fed recognition because the feds have become much more unlikely to do that. Problem is how
they create problems for those who deserve recognition, like the legit Lumbee.

Part of what drives these phony tribes is the grant money they can get for pursuing (or claiming to) pursue fed recognition. And we can't really lobby against that because I don't see how you can cut
that off without cutting off legit groups too.


--- In newagefraudsplastichshamans@yahoogroups.com, "Vance Hawkins"
<vhawkins@p...> wrote:
> has anyone thought of this one? I sure didn't, Mr. Chief Kodiak has > adopted ndn children. Now can you imagine how screwed-up those
kids > will be!
>
> ===========
>
> In a generation or 2 the distinction between "Indian" and "playing > Indian" will be more blurred than it is now. Yeah I thought about
the > repurcussions of this and mentioned it on the old nafps group, but it > didn't get any response. Prob'ly my fault. I'm not much of an "idea"
> salesman. Maybe I don't word things right or something.  But I have > thought of the repurcussions.
>
> Today there are an aging first generation of fake tribes and bands, > originally created in the mid/late 70s, and many still exist. But > their kids and grandkinds are growing up attending Pow-Wow's they are > organizing themselves, usually back East, and they are becoming more > and more accepted in their local communities, as Indian. Many of these > groups (but not all) call themselves "Cherokee" and many members
> don't have a drop of Cherokee Blood.
>
> Many of these people possibly had a great grandma who was Indian, > others maybe not, I don't have any way of knowing. Some groups are
> more legit than others, but it is difficult to know as each group > says the other one is the fake one. But local officials in their > home towns are really not interested one way or the other I don't
> think. Folks, the longer these groups exist the more credibility they > will be perceived as having. If "Kodiak's" band still exists in 50 > years, and if his descendants maintain it, and if they do have
Indian > blood just not necessarily Lumbee -- and there are hundreds of > similar groups still around 50 years from now also -- what will that mean?
>
> And how will your grandkids perceive these groups, when many members  of many of these groups are going to be able to prove they have a
little Indian blood?
>
> There are a lotta people with "a little" Indian blood who are not  eligible for federal recognition (I'm one of them), and they often attach themselves to a "salesman" like this "Chief Kodiak". A lotta  these groups have been proven fraudulent, but they are still around.
>
> =================
>
> All that saved me from being a member of one of these gorups is where  I was born. A person in Oklahoma who said they were gonna start a
> band of Indians would get laughed to death and booted out of town and  I might get sent to the fruitcake bin. :) But had I been born in  Alabama or Virginia I'd definitely think about belonging to one of  those groups.
>
> Al mentioned a difference between New Age frauds and people with an Indian ancestor, who are being scammed by fake chiefs and fake
bands  There is a difference. Most likely some of us are probably partly  descended from a tribe or tribes that were declared extinct a century
> or 2 ago. That's why we sometimes have trouble tracing ancestors to  any roll in existence today -- the tribe dissapeared from history  before those rolls came into being. As the Cherokee have always said -
> - these people are possibly NOT Cherokee but from some group that has  dissappeared -- extinct.
>
> I don't wanna belong to or support those fake tribes and bands and > phoney chiefs -- they are a joke -- but at the same time I know 50 > years from now conditions might change and they might get federal recognition, and people like me and my descendants who avoid them will be left out -- again -- that thought does cross my mind.
>
> So when you say --
> "has anyone thought of this one? I sure didn't, Mr. Chief Kodiak has > adopted ndn children. Now can you imagine how screwed-up those
kids > will be!"
>
> It made me think. I'm descended from Indians who were raised White, who tried their best to be White, and finally became White. That's  why I thought it was important to show the family photos on the photo section here. We get "Whiter" every generation.
>
> There are already a lot of us who are screwed up! :) My family's been screwed up for generations now . . . If you'll read some o' the  things I put to paper here I hope that'll be all the proof you'll
> need to be agreein' with that assessment . . .
>
> vance

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Fake, Wannabe, or Would Be Tribes
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2004, 06:11:28 pm »
Vance Hawkins" <vhawkins@pacer.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 00:52:07 -0000
Subject: [newagefraudsplastichshamans] Re: Open Letter to Vernon Tanner/ Vance

   
you said --

> Vernon Tanner received $100,000 from the ANA and was not able to
produce a single Indian in his lineage.

reply

ANA monies have been abused -- All the fake Cherokee tribes seem to
have applied for these grants and have had them approved. Now ANA
grants are an area that ought to be researched. It'd be interesting
to find out where their money has gone.

I don't think much of state recognition anymore altho I once
considered applying to a state recognized tribe. It's too easy for
the situation you describe, general fraud -- to occur.
 
you said --

Besides that, what is keeping any Indian group or special interest
group from being just that? Any of them can apply for 501(c)(3)
status. They don't need recognition by the state to be groups or non-
profits. This is something being spearheaded by non-Indians (like
Vernon Tanner and others), and they are the ones who are going to
benefit from it.

reply --

ALL the fake Cherokee tribes are 5013C's -- all of them. Some claim
federal recognition because the government "recognized" their 5013c
status and the name of their nonprofit group in their application
was "Cherokee/Chickamauga/Tsalagi Tribe/Band/Nation of Name a State
or Region". Thus they reckon they are federally recognized Indians.

vance

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Fake, Wannabe, or Would Be Tribes
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2004, 06:24:07 pm »
Hasan Grooms" <hasan_al_amriki@yahoo.com>  Add to Address Book
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 06:53:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: [newagefraudsplastichshamans] Open Letter to Vernon Tanner/ Vance

   
The point wasn't about the word "mingo" or about the Chickasaw once residing in SC, it was about the Chaloklowa Chickasaw being a non-existent entity and a white man using white skin priviledge to make it exist and have that acknowledge as authentic by his white peers.

Vernon Tanner received $100,000 from the ANA and was not able to produce a single Indian in his lineage. And eventhough he is white he is appointed to the SC Commission of Minority Affairs as the first Native American (just because he is white and says he is Indian, he is believed), and he will be overseeing the application process of real Indians seeking (finally) recogniton from the State of SC.

But this recognition doesn't really help Indians it helps whites. There will be three levels of recognition.

1. You may petition as an Indian tribe. (Indians)

2. You may petition as an Indian group. (Indians & non-Indians)

3. You may petiton as special interest group who have an interest in native art written into their mission statements. (Anybody and everybody)

Now you can just imagine what is going to happen: "White Bear Runs-The-River" is going to say, I have an interest in native pottery, so I can apply for state recognition. And when he gets state recognition he will tell everyone and anyone who will listen that he is recognized as Indian by the state of SC. No one is going to ask him about his level of recognition.

Besides that, what is keeping any Indian group or special interest group from being just that? Any of them can apply for 501(c)(3) status. They don't need recognition by the state to be groups or non-profits. This is something being spearheaded by non-Indians (like Vernon Tanner and others), and they are the ones who are going to benefit from it.

In fact, if you petition as an Indian tribe you must forfeit the right to sue the state for land and also any gaming rights. And while the issue is not neccessarily about land or gaming rights, it is about having the right to sue the state if that is what we so desire. What other groups are forbidden from suing the state? A non-citizen has that right, but we don't?

Anyway, these people benefit by simply being white and not by their merit, that is how they can get things like the above done and earn the recognition of their peers as being genuine Indians even if they lack a single drop of Indian blood.

Hasan

Vance Hawkins <vhawkins@pacer.com> wrote:
. . . You claim to be the "Mingo" (or "Chief") of the Chaloklowa
Chickasaw Indians in South Carolina . . .

There were Indian peoples living near the Scioto River in Ohio until
hte mid 1790s called "Mingo" -- I have copies of maps that mention
them, but I am not sure who they were associated with. I have read
conflicting reports, some mention Iriquois, some Shawnee, and some
mention Delaware. If anyone knows I'm curious . . .

Being a Muscogeean language "Mingo" sounds right, a prominent
Chickasaw chief "the Mountain Chief" of the 1780s was Piomingo -- so
that sounds right.

Offline educatedindian

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Cyril Mize & Would Be "Lumbee of CA"
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2004, 06:35:37 pm »
dafydd7916" <dafydd7916@sbcglobal.net>  View Contact Details  
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 01:16:39 -0500
Subject: [newagefraudsplastichshamans] Chief Kodiak Quotes

   
"the bia doesn't recognize their group however, they are recognized by the united states. Lumbee NC agreed to not acknowledge other lumbees outside of NC in order to recieve bia recognition <snip> Anyone who wants to call this joker will have an interesting conversation with him."

Goodness gracious, I mightily do reckon so. Problem is, I think I’d have a hard time not reaching through the phone and strangling him for trying such an absurd statement on me. It would be nice to collect such quotes, though, and perhaps use them in the future just to show how idiotic the whole fraudulent organization is.

Thanks.

Dave

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Open Letter to Vernon Tanner
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2004, 06:54:01 pm »
Hasan ibn Abdullaah ibn Abdullaah" <hasan_al_amriki@yahoo.com>  
Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 01:03:29 -0000
Subject: [newagefraudsplastichshamans] Open Letter to Vernon Tanner (Re: White Priviledge)
   
(From a recent issue of the REDCOPY newsletter, the premier news source of South Carolina's Indian communities)

OPEN LETTER FROM KEITH POUNDS TO VERNON TANNER, SO-CALLED "NATIVE AMERICAN" COMMISSIONER TO THE BOARD OF SOUTH CAROLINA'S COMMISSION FOR MINORITY AFFAIRS

I would remind you that just weeks ago, you mailed several persons in the state thanking them for your recent appointment as a Commissioner
to the Board of South Carolina's Commission for Minority Affairs.  Although I have attended several meetings of that state agency, and I am one of only a handful of people who showed up to discuss State Recognition of Native American Indian Tribes in both House and Senate hearings, you neglected to send me copy of this letter.
Otherwise, there is an aspect of South Carolina's State Recognition process that has become of growing concern for many people in the state, but you have neglected to show any leadership in addressing this issue.  That issue concerns the discussion of White Skin Privilege among those representing Indian people in South Carolina's
statewide Indian organizations.
I would remind you, as you are one of only two White Commissioners in Minority Affairs, that in his article, My White Problem  - And Ours, Kendall Clark reminded us that, "the denial of White privilege, like the denial of racism itself, serves the interests of those who enjoy it."  I pray that you do not deny this issue and leave us to believe that that denial comes in your best interest and not that of Native American Indian people in the state.

Currently in the state of South Carolina, Native American Indian groups have been embroiled in the debate and controversies surrounding the long awaited, formal "State Recognition" of Indian
tribes.
The most intense of these controversies has been the accusation that several groups are of questionable, if not clearly nonexistent, Indian heritage and have only recently organized simply for the purpose of seeking State Recognition as Indian people.
Common among the leaders of these newly formed groups is the promise that if you become a member of their group, you will receive college tuition, and other benefits that are certainly not included in State Recognition.

While unable to confidently rebut the Cultural Theft accusations against them, the members of these groups stand by their claims of Indian heritage and have become the most vocal participants in the
State Recognition process while simultaneously spearheading the direction of State Recognition itself.  Meanwhile, State Recognition has become law in South Carolina, not only to recognize Indian Tribes but to recognize two other now eligible entities.
These other entities include 1) Native American Groups and 2) Native American Special Interest Organizations.  The memberships of Native
American Groups may include both Indian and non-Indian persons and only have to show proof of having been in an existence for three years.  The members of Special Interest Organizations do not have to be Indian at all, having only to show an interest in Native American crafts written into their mission statements.
In her article, White privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack, Peggy McIntosh wrote that, "whites are carefully taught not to recognize white privilege, as males are taught not to recognize male privilege."  This idea clearly exposes the defensive nature of these newfound Cultural Thieves in South Carolina.  McIntosh, a white person herself, further defines such arrogance by admitting, "I did not see myself as a racist because I was taught to recognize racism
only in individual acts of meanness by members of my group, never in invisible systems conferring unsought racial dominance on my group from birth."

My concern, Vernon Tanner, is that your silence on the issue of White Skin Privilege is a result of your not recognizing the "invisible systems" that have allowed you to be placed in the position of what
the SC Congress has called "the first Native American Commissioner" to Minority Affairs.

In his article, White people need to acknowledge benefits of unearned privilege, Robert Jensen furthers the argument.  He wrote that, "In a
white supremacist world, all white people have privileges, whether or not they are overtly racist themselves."
I question why any person or group would seek to confiscate the culture of others while proclaiming that their escapades are the result of the search of their true identities.  Is it that Whites don't view themselves as having an identity at all unless they can identify themselves as people of color?  McIntosh realizes of Whites that, "because they are not people of color; they do not see "whiteness" as a racial identity."  

Offline educatedindian

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Vernon Tanner pt 2
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2004, 06:56:14 pm »

But, in a past issue of the controversial Pee Dee Indian Nation of Beaver Creek's newsletter, Donna Ott wrote the following; I am White…  I have not yet found a census that names (my family) as Mulatto, black, or Indian…  I have been accused of being a wannabe Indian, a white woman who is leading a "nation" of wannabe Indians…I have been called a tribal dictator and a woman who is parading around as a Chief for the power and recognition of it all.  Lately, I have been called a "new ager."
Robert Jensen wrote surprisingly that, "(my fellow white people) see in me a reflection of themselves–and in a racist world, that is an advantage.  I smile.  I am white.  I am one of them.  I am not dangerous.  Even when I voice critical opinions, I am cut some slack.  After all, I'm White!"
This is exactly what Donna wrote!  "I am White!"  And she was writing it to White People!  How dare we question her opinion over those that she considers to be the undesirables.  This is what Donna Ott was telling us.
Terrence "Littlewater" Alewine remains at large after having been found liable in a court of law for misappropriating several thousand dollars from the urban Indian organization, Midlands Intertribal
Empowerment Group.  You have been silent on this issue!  In reward for her avoiding to reimburse this urban Indian organization, she was given a job by the South Carolina Indian Affairs Commission(SCIAC), a private organization whose members are predominantly of questionable Indian heritage themselves.
This new job for Terrence is funded by none other than the federal Administration for Native Americans (ANA).  Not only has her White
Skin Privilege allowed her to avoid repayment of the debt, but she was rewarded for her racist activities with a federally funded job!  
Doesn't she work alongside you in the SCIAC?  Why haven't you, as a representative of a state agency, upheld the law and reported her?

You claim to be the "Mingo" (or "Chief") of the Chaloklowa Chickasaw Indians in South Carolina and likewise a self-proclaimed Indian "Medicine Man."  You write to Indian women in the state and
grant them "Indian names" of your choosing (ignoring the fact that these Indian women are already surrounded by actual Indians in their
families who have already granted them names).
Despite the fact that there are no records of any Chaloklowa Chickasaws having ever existed, you were given a $100,000.00 grant from the federal Administration for Native Americans in 2002.  After
spending the entire $100,000.00 of federal grant money (supposedly in research), you are still unable to document a single Indian in your
genealogy, clear back to the 1700s.  Knowing all of this, could it be that it is White Skin Privilege that has afforded you the nomination and confirmation as "South Carolina's first Native American
Commissioner" to the state's Minority Affairs Commission?
Dennis Bracy, so-called "Chief" of a mythical Beaver Creek Indians group in South Carolina, once wrote that he "envies" the skin of Indian women.  Rochelle Link, also a member of the Beaver Creek
Indians, claims that her family is white today because her ancestors "bleached" their skin to remove its dark color.  Link's daughter, Marcy, claims that she is not actually white, but "yellow
toned" because as an Indian, her family came across the Bering Strait, from Asia.

For those in South Carolina who might question their identity, I provide below a sample of an edited list composed by McIntosh, of which she insists, "systematically overempower certain groups."  Ask yourself, "Do these ideas apply to me?"
- When you watch television, you see many people with your same skin color.
- While thumbing through any textbook, you easily find the historical accomplishments of people with your skin color.
- You have never been called "a credit to your race."
- You know that if you ask to speak to "the person in charge," it is most likely that you will be talking to a person of your skin color.
- After attending governmental meetings (like Minority Affairs in South Carolina) or meetings of private organizations of which you belong (like SCIAC), you have never walked away feeling "isolated, out-of-place, out numbered, unheard, held at a distance, or feared."  
You walk away confident because most of the people at the meeting looked like you.
- If you find yourself in a difficult situation, you never ask if the negative episode has something to do with your skin color.
- You can go to any convenience store and find something as simple as a "bandaid" and never have to worry that it won't match your skin color.

McIntosh concluded of this list, "If these things are true, this is not such a free country; one's life is not what one makes it; many doors open for certain people through no virtues of their own."

Vernon Tanner, is your appointment as a "Native American Commissioner" based on your merits as a leader among the Indian communities in South Carolina, or something else?
My name is Keith A. Pounds

Offline educatedindian

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Cyril Mize & Lumbee of CA
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2004, 06:58:33 pm »
Hasan Grooms" <hasan_al_amriki@yahoo.com>  
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 17:57:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: [newagefraudsplastichshamans] : Chief Kodiak & KTVE news
   
They were busted a long time ago for selling memberships to their "tribe". What it seems like to me is that they have now expanded to United Lumbee franchises, that is why they have added "& America" at the end. I have yet to see a "enrollee" of the United Lumbee of NC in or from NC.

I believe their name used to be the "Lumbee Tribe of California" or the "Western Band of Lumbees in California"... something like that, but I am not certain. Like I said, it's been a long time and I believe they have been in operation under one name or another for the past 20 years or more.

More than likely, "Chief Kodiak" bought a membership, a franchise, and received as a free gift a "How To Be a Real Injun" guidebook from them. I believe if someone digs just a little deeper they will find the connection. I do believe I came across a group with this exact name "United Lumbee of NC & America Redwolf Band".

(Just pulled this up after a quick look on google. Maybe someone else here may have mentioned this too.)

September 28 - Trail of Tears Motorcycle Tour Powwow
Location: Best Western Motel, 2520 Central, Hot Springs, Arkansas.
Notes: All dancers and drumers welcome. Donations of food and clothing for local banks appreciated. Hosted by the United Lumbee Nation of North Carolina and America's Redwolf Band of Arkansas, Tennessee and Louisiana.
Contact: (501) 520-4469.
http://216.239.39.104/search?q=cache:Z8z8FmgtIf4J:www.geocities.com/spoons214/calendar.html+%22America+Redwolf+Band%22&hl=en

<I also see that the “United Lumbee Nation of North Carolina and America??? has gained a spot on Senator Barbara Boxer’s website. Nice move on their part.>

You should read Keith Pounds' essay on "White Priviledge" on the SC-AIM egroup here on Yahoo. Eventhough it is mainly regarding the situation in South Carolina, it makes the point of how easy it is for people like these to be recognized and acknowledged by their peers, and grant them the added benefit of viewing Indians in a light that they have always imagined them as being and eases their conscience by having them believe they are really doing something for Indians and those Indians love them for it.

I don't have any first hand knowledge of the United Lumbee, but I can pretty much guarantee you that if you were to ask them how they came to be they will probably mentioned one of the many legends of Henry Berry Lowery that he disappeared and ended up in California! Again, something else that was probably taken from a book and had such an effect on them that their inner voice told them they were really Indians and one with the earth and therefore to honor the Indians and their "ancestors" it became necessary for them to come out of the closet and "become" Indian.

Hasan

dafydd7916 <dafydd7916@sbcglobal.net> wrote: “The United Lumbee of NC didn't even start in NC it is an offshoot of another wanabi tribe from California!???

Thanks for pointing this out, Hasan.  Do you have more info on them, perhaps something we can connect directly with "Chief Kodiak's" group and the so-called "Redwolf Band".

A good example of how one must be careful and discriminate between the closeness of names. I see that the original petition by the California group for recognition was denied back in 1985. They have changed address since then, from Exeter to Fall River Mills. It also shows the shrewdness on how these various groups list each other to gain respectability.

I also see that the “United Lumbee Nation of North Carolina and America??? has gained a spot on Senator Barbara Boxer’s website. Nice move on their part.

United Lumbee Nation of NC & America
P.O. Box 512
Fall River Mills, CA 96028
Tel# (916) 336-6701

070 United Lumbee Nation of North Carolina and America
c/o Mrs. Eva Jones Reed (Phone Unknown)
P.O. Box 911
Exeter, CA 93221
Letter of Intent to Petition 04/28/1980
Declined to Acknowledge 07/02/1985 50 FR 18746

Paselo,

Dave

Offline educatedindian

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Cyril Mize
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2004, 07:02:48 pm »
Vance Hawkins" <vhawkins@pacer.com>  Add to Address Book
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 23:00:29 -0000
Subject: [newagefraudsplastichshamans] Re: : Chief Kodiak & KTVE news

   
I did an internet search for United Lumbee of NC and America. Thre
were 2 interesting links that I found -- might be more I didn't.

http://linux.library.appstate.edu/lumbee/27/JENK009.htm

Category: 27. Settlements outside Robeson County
   JENK009. Jenkins, Venita. "Separate Lumbee group exists online."
Fayetteville Observer Sunday, 20 May 2001.

Publication type: Newspaper article

Electronic access: Fayetteville Observer Web site
(www.fayettevillenc.com). Use Search.

Milton Hunt, chairperson of the Lumbee Tribal Council, has just
become aware of the United Lumbee Nation of North Carolina and
America, Inc. This group, headquartered in Shasta County, north-
central California, considers itself a breakaway group from North
Carolina Lumbees. It was founded in 1976. [See The Lumbee Indians: an
annotated bibliography, pages 120-122, for more details.]
The United Lumbee Nation's Web site has linked to the LRDA Web site
in the past. Now, the United Lumbee Nation's Cougar Band,
headquartered in Texas, has a site (http://lumbeecougarband.org)
which links to the Lumbee Tribe's site.

The Bureau of Indian Affairs issued a final determination, in 1985,
that the United Lumbee Nation's petition for federal recognition did
not satisfy five of the BIA's seven criteria, thus federal
recognition was not granted (see The Lumbee Indians: an annotated
bibliography, items 965 and 966.

Additional Subjects: United Lumbee Nation of North Carolina and
America
This annotation was last edited on June 21, 2002.

Home Page URL: lumbeebibliography.net

=================
 
http://www.powwows.com/gathering/archive/index.php/t-10636

here there is a comment --

Chief Soft Shell Turtle ( Tom Netz is a fraud 05-18-2003 10:04
Tom Netz is a fraud he tells every one he is the chief of the Lumbee
tribes of Ohio and is he not really Native American, he is full
blooded German. What really gets to me is that he has been doing this
for many years now. If you encounter this man or know any thing new
about him or would like to know about him contact me at
bluespirit102002@msn.com . . .

=================

interesting, so this group has a Chief Kodiak and a Chief Soft Shell
Turtle -- it might be fun just to find out the names of all their
chiefs . . . :) A Texas band and an Ohio band are mentioned -- they
might have bands all over the country.

Also you might get away with "faking it" as a mixed blood if you were
full blood Italian or Turk or something -- but "full blood German"?
For some reason I can't get a picture of a guy wearing those turisty
Bavarian shorts held up with suspenders and holdin' one o those great
big beer mugs -- yet wearing a ribbon shirt and moccasins, out of my
mind . . .

God help me.

vance