Author Topic: Acadian Metis ?  (Read 64826 times)

Offline Moma_porcupine

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Acadian Metis ?
« on: May 25, 2007, 07:07:30 pm »
I found this list a while back . I am not sure who wrote it , or if they know what they are talking about , but it made me wonder and I did some digging  ;


cultural appropriation: The appropriation or taking of another people's culture.

The following organizations are NOT endorsed in any way by the Wabanaki Confederacy nor the Nations of the Wabanaki Confederacy. The Nations of the Wabanaki Confederacy being the Míkmaq (Micmac), Wolastoqiyik (Maliseet), Peskotomuhkatiyik (Passamaquoddy), Panawahpskewi (Penobscot), and Alnôbak (Abenaki), their respective governing Grand Councils, and their People. These organizations do not represent Wabanaki people in any way, and any claims to do so are fraudulent. They are not citizens of the Wabanaki Nations, and do not have any status as "Indian" with their own countries, the USA & Canada. These are American and Canadian citizens infringing on the rights of the Wabanaki People. Their claims are fraudulent, and their actions are cultural appropriation. The Wabanaki would like for the American and
 Canadian governments to inact laws to protect the Wabanaki and other Aboriginal People from cultural appropriators and the organizations they invent.

Annapolis Valley Métis Council    Member of the Confederacy of Nova Scotia Métis

Canadian Indian Movement ,Latest attempt at cultural theft by John Williams

Canadian Métis Indian Coalition ,Defunct organization of John Williams

Canadian Off-Reserve Indian Nations Inc.  Headed by John Williams aka Gray Wolf, located in Moncton, NB

Casco Bay Métis ,Member of Métis Nation in New England, located in Falmouth, ME

Confederacy of Nova Scotia Métis ,Headed by Wendy Annand

East Coast First Peoples Alliance ,Former Nation of Acadian Métis Indians members in north-eastern New Brunswick created a new organization

Eastcoast Maritime Métis Council ,Another name for the NB/CMC Métis Council Inc.

Eastern Woodland Métis Nation of Nova Scotia ,   Former Confederacy of Nova Scotia Métis members in south-western Nova Scotia created a new organization

Eldawik Métis Council ,   Member of Confederacy of Nova Scotia Métis, located in Halifax, NS

Gray Wolf Maliseet Tribal Nation , Headed by John Williams, located in Moncton, NB

Gray Wolf Mi'kmaq Bands ,Another name for Wiskipkpaqtism Off-Reserve Mi'kmaq Bands

International Wabenaki Confederacy ,Another name for Maritime Off-Reserve Wabenaki Confederacy Inc.

Kespu'kwitk Métis Council ,Member of Confederacy of Nova Scotia Métis, located in Tusket, NS

Madockawando Abanaki Penobscot Indian Tribal Nation ,   Defunct organization of John Williams

Maritime Off-Reserve Wabenaki Confederacy Inc.    , Headed by John Williams, located in Moncton, NB

Métis Eastern Tribal Indian Society of Maine ,   Headed by Bob Brawn aka Silver Eagle, located in Limerick, ME

Métis Nation in New England, Headed by Ken Nadreau aka Andahatey, located in Washington, NH

Nation of Acadian Métis Indians ,Headed by John Williams, located in Moncton

NB/CMC Métis Council Inc. ,Headed by Roland Levesque, located in northern NB

New Brunswick Woodland Métis Tribes Inc. ,Headed by John Williams, located in Moncton, NB

Pioneer Valley Métis Association , Member of Métis Nation in New England, located in Springfield, MA

Ponemah Metis Council of Connecticut ,   Member of Métis Nation in New England

Southern New Hampshire Métis Council ,   Member of Métis Nation in New England, located in Washington, NH

South West Nova Scotis Métis Council ,   Member of Confederacy of Nova Scotia Métis

Wabanaki International Sovereign Nation ,Headed by David Hill, located in Great Sacred Falls, VT

We'kopekwitk Métis Council ,    Member of Confederacy of Nova Scotia Métis, located in Truro, NS

Wesget Sipu ,Headed by David Walton, located in Fort Kent, ME

Wibgui Moosem Penobscot Tribal Nation ,   Headed by John Williams, located in Moncton, NB

Wiskipkpaqtism Off-Reserve Mi'kmaq Bands ,Headed by John Williams, located in Moncton, NB

Yarmouth & District Métis Council ,Member of Confederacy of Nova Scotia Métis, located in Yarmouth, NS
This was John Williams / Gray Wolf's response ; ( I skiped his requoting what is posted above )

As you can see, mixed breeds will never be accepted by status Indians unless they can provide financial benefits to them ! (heaven-forbid anyone suggesting that these "status" Indians are themselves mixed breeds!)

Now, as you can see. John Williams, aka Gray Wolf, is being singled out as the greatest demon culture stealer of us all! (That being yours truly!)

Ironically, they don't have a culture to steal! We can out-hunt, out-fish and out-log them all. I know more about Mi'kmaq history and culture than all of them put together, I speak the old mi'kmaq, maliseet and penobsciot trade language better than all of them!

What culture are they talking about ? They don't even know what animal spirits are all about, they borrow rituals from the plains indians, hell! some wear chiefs war-bonnets from the Sioux and Cheyenes of centyral and western United States.

None can supply documentation that proves they are even pre-depotation treaty heirs, we all do in spades, none can link themselves to Wabanaki Confeceracy Chiefs, we all do, hell! They can't even prove they are Indian with genealogy.

Yet, here they are calling "ME" a culture stealer? You can't steal what they don't have! I am not bitter at any of them, and I certainly don't envie them or what they have.

Now ! We have this organization atacking every non-status group it can find because they fear us! They fear that we might expose the truth, the real story, yet, they have nothing to fear, what we have can only help them to find out who they really are, what was stolen from them, and how to get it back.

They will sit down with me before this is all over ! They will listen and they will learn, it is as sure as the sunrise and the rising of the tides comes every day , the question is will their attacks on me cease today, or later, and what opinion will it leave with me.
So now it seems this Gray wolf / John Williams guy has created his own Wabanaki Confederacy .

The Maritime Wabanaki Confederacy

" A few years ago, some reserve natives created a modern version of the Wabanaki confederacy, but, it has no ties whatsoever  to any of the original Wabanaki leaders or chiefs, to the grand chiefs, the treaty signers, even to the deputies who negotiated the treaties prior to 1760.

Because of this lack of creditabilty,
the Maritime (meaning eastern Canada & the USA) Wabanaki Confederacy was legally incorporated and a grand council was chosen from actual documented descendants of the original Wabanaki Confederacy grand chiefs and treaty signers.

These hereditery Wabanaki Confederacy Chiefs then chose in the traditional Wabanaki native tradition, Dr. John J. Williams (aka Gray Wolf) as it's Grand Chief.

Gray Wolf
Wabanaki Confederacy

We are all Wabanaki Indians

Maritime Wabanaki Confederacy hereditary Grand Chief Gray Wolf ("Loup Gris" )
Direct descendant of Chiefs Madockawando, Francis Xavier, & Bomaseen
Direct unbroken family ties to 9 peace & friendship treaty signers.

I created or incorporated the Wabanaki Confederacy for all our nations!

Membership in the Maritime Wabanaki Confederacy, Inc. :

1...Must provide legally certified documentation of one's genealogical or other records that proves an unbroken ancestral tie to one or more of the following:

(a)...a documented grand chief of the pre-deportation Wabanaki Confederacy

(b)...a chief, deputy or captain of the original pre-deportation Wabanaki Confederacy.

(c) ...a pre-deportation Wabanaki treaty signer.

(d) ancestor with Indian blood who lived in Acadia during the signing of the pre-deportation treaty signings.

(h)...Anyone that the Wabanaki Grand Council unanimously considers to be an Indian based on other factors.

(i)....Anyone who was issued a "status" card from Indian affairs, or who had ancestors with such cards.

Membership will be reviewed in a case by case basis. Each applicants will be processed fairly and quickly.
There will be no discrimination based on age, sex, racial purity (blood quorums), tribal origins or affiliations, spiritual beliefs, financial condition, etc. Exceptions:

The following will be barred from membership

1...Anyone who belongs to another indian group or association that is considered counter-productive to the aims and
objectives of the Wabanaki Confederacy Grand Council.

2...Anyone who refuses to follow the guidelines or rules established by the Wabanaki Confederacy Grand Council

3...Anyone who engages in practices deemed to be illegal under Canadian law.

4...Anyone who does not accept the Wabanaki Confederacy Grand Council as the sole authority over the issues of pre-deportation Wabenaki treaties and treaty rights for the Wabanaki peoples.

5...Anyone who creates a situation that could be harmful for any member of the Wabanaki Confederacy Grand Council.
We are always looking for people interested in joining our organization.

Benefits of Joining

There are several benefits to becoming a member of our organization. Our members are close friends and we have a great time when we get together.

Of course we also have a common interest, and we hope to further our cause.

In addition, you will be able to study the traditional mi'kmaq culture and heritage, including in-depth and authentic involvement in traditional Native American spirituality.

Lastly! There are the hundreds of grants, buseries and loans that we can apply for through or band.
Gray Wolfs webpage mentions the Ontario Metis Aboriginal Association . All I could find on that was this .

Ottawa, Ontario, January 19, 2007

On September 5, 2006, the Ontario Metis Aboriginal Association(OMAA) was suspended for failure to comply with the Constitution & By-Laws of the Congress, specifically, the requirement of repaying an outstanding debt of $163,245 to the Congress. On January 18, 2007, the CAP Board of Directors unanimously voted to
terminate the membership of OMAA within the Congress, in accordance with its Constitution & By-Laws

Doing a search on Gray Wolf and Acadian Metis I found this post by him in a genealogical forum  ;

Last year, a few hundred Acadians-indians in our group took yDNA tests, only one failed to show indian haplotypes, some of  these went back to the Lejeunes, but, the lab put the screws on us and now throws the words " possible", "Probable", "highly likely" and such to the test results, so, we have decided to end this once and for all!
We are currently doing an extensive mDNA and yDNA through a private lab to extablish the indian connections that we know abounds within the acadian population, and it will be published in the medical journals onece completed.

In my reasearch, and I have done extensive research, I found that the first to settle in Acadia were the Algonquins, followed by the Basques, the Scotch, then the French, the German, Swiss, British, and other Europeans, but for the first 200 years, there were but a dozen women from France to settle here, yet, there were countless births, so, unless aliens arrived here,

yDNA comes from the male line only , so it is not possible the yDNA of almost all Acadians would show Indian halpotypes unless the French who arived were all women who had babies with Native men .

As far as I can tell from other on line information , the statements that only a dozen women came from France are also not true .

I know next to nothing about Acadian genealogy , and I may be wrong , but as far as I can tell all the evidence is that the large majority of Acadian women were French .

There was some documented intermarriage .

As far as I can tell the few mixed blood children of these unions , were absorbed into either the French , or Indian communities. .

Reading through this conversation on the genform trying to figure out who is telling the truth , I found a heated arguement with someone claiming to be the Chief of the BRAS D’OR INDIANS

The community descended from these people may or may not be Indian , but as far as I can tell their claim to be a First Nation is based on a lot of very questionable iinformation . Some of it appears to be completely incorrect .

Posted by: Eric Burton Date: May 16, 2006 at 12:29:58

Some maternal lines of interest whose origins can be proven definitely through DNA testing
Anne Marie & Réné Rimbault
( According to recent mtDNA results listed in above link , YES )

Édmée Lejeune and François Gautrot
  ( According to recent mtDNA NO )

Catherine Lejeune & François Savoie
( According to recent mtDNA NO )

Unknown & Germain Doucet
( According to recent mtDNA NO )

Unknown & Jean Gaudet
  According to recent mtDNA Maybe ( X can be European or Amerindian )

Radegonde Lambert & Jean Blanchard
According to recent mtDNA NO

Catherine Bugaret & Clause Petitpas
  According to recent mtDNA NO, though one of their sons did marry a M'kmaq woman

I checked the webpage for the Bras D'or Indians . It is here .

This Chief Eric Burton appers to be the same person as the guy Erich Burton who is administrating the Acadian DNA project below .
Group Administrator:  Erich Burton

A secondary goal of the AmerIndian Ancestry Project is in relation to the Bras d’Or Indian families.

Bras d'Or First Nation Community

The first four families above were all found in the 1708 Indian census.

A Bras d’Or Indian traces their family back to one of the families mentioned above who either already resided in Cape Breton  before 1748 or moved to Cape Breton in the 1748-1750 period. (con..)

Historically the Bras d’Or Indian families married into other Bras d’Or Indian families. That is not to say Bras d’Or Indians didn’t marry a Scottish or Irish immigrant, because there were such marriages, but the children that resulted from those families would marry into other Bras d’Or Indian families.
The conversation in the genforum between Acadian genealogists and these Acadian Indians is interesting to read through . Lots of people said they felt considering such thin blooded descendants Indians was doing more wrong to the real Indians , but some seem to have gotten some sort of status for what sounds like an extremely minute amount of native blood and now with mtDNA it turns out even that did not exist .

We have spoken before...I have my Indian card bacause of Francoie Savoie and Catherine Lejeune..

mtDNA research has shown that Catherine Lejeune who married Francoise Savoi in the 1600's has European mtDNA . Even if this was true , could people get an "Indian card" , on that basis ?

Are there Acadian Metis ?

Would a few intermarriages with Indians in the 1600's mean people are a First Nation ?  A person born in 1675 would be about the 9 X Greatgrandparent of someone born in 1950 . To put this another way a person born in 1950 would inherent 1/ 2048 of there genetic inheritance from an ancestor born in 1675 . Even if someone could track their family back to twenty 9 X Great grandmas who were Indian that descendant would still be more than 99% European .   

The way these webpages are worded , it sounds like these folks accept members as Indians , if they have even one ancestor back in the 1600's that was an Indian .

If this was true , and so many people who are almost entirely non native were recognized as being Indian , what would this do to the recognition and rights of Canadas First Nations ? 

Maybe I am just not understanding something , but these groups do raise some  questions .

Does anyone know who these folks are ?
« Last Edit: May 25, 2007, 07:16:32 pm by Moma_porcupine »

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Acadian Metis ?
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2007, 07:34:33 pm »
There was another thread mentioning this warning awhile back. I believe someone had some questions about an alleged shaman in Maine who claimed to be part of one of the groups in the warning.

I remember trying to do searches on most of the groups in the warning and finding in most cases these seemed to be heritage groups, but mostly not intending to do harm.

My understanding of Metis culture (as an outsider) is that the Metis generally lived apart from both whites and recognized status NDNs. This is how the Metis culture was created. Those mixedbloods who managed to "pass" among either status NDNs or whites for several centuries by definition wouldn't be considered Metis. They and their ancestors didn't grow up in the culture. BQ doesn't play a part as far as I know.

But anyone knowing different, go ahead and correct me.

Offline Ric_Richardson

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Re: Acadian Metis ?
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2007, 07:38:20 pm »

I had run into this individual, some time ago, on a Metis(?) forum.

While I belong to the Metis Nation Saskatchewan, which is part of the Metis National Council, I am not aware of any Metis organizations that meet the membership criteria of the MNC, from the East coast.

While many Metis people, myself included, can trace their lineage back to some Acadian roots, those Acadian mixed bloods moved West with the fur trade and became part of the Metis Culture, which has developed over the centuries.  Those who came with the fur trade continued to intermarry with other Aboriginal people and lived the Culture that developed.

I cannot make judgement about them, but they would not likely fit in with our Western Metis people.


Offline Moma_porcupine

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Re: Acadian Metis ?
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2007, 11:41:06 am »
Maybe some of those groups in that list are just heritage groups , but Gray Wolf / John Williams / Wiskipkpaqtism and the Confederacy of Nova Scotia Métis , sound like they are very interested in what treaty rights and resources they might be entitled to . The Bras D'Or Indians call themselves a First Nation.

It's a lot to read through , but in John Williams own words,  he is after whatever belongs to Aboriginal people , and he says he has been seen as a threat by the people who live on reserve .     

#24 Important News Update: HUNTING & FISHING REQUESTS
BY:  Wiskipkpaqtism ( AKA Gray WOlf)
Gray Wolf
Our band has been flooded by hundreds of inquiries from our members who are itching to go hunting, fishing and logging, they  are ready to go to court, they have the money for lawyers, all they want is our permission, and they will be out there is numbers.

I can understand their desires to access what is rightfully theirs, and I know that they are sincere about being responsible,  but, I urge everyone to be patient, give us time to see exactly what our platform will yield, if we can work with the government, then in time, we will not have to go through the court process every time we try to access our rights, if not, then I will personally lead them wherever they want to go with this.

We have rights both as Off-Reserve and as Metis, I know how to access these rights under both these classifications, (probably the only one who knows how to access Metis rights in this province) but, I want to give the government the chance to deal with us as equals first, if they try to jerk us around as they have been doing for the last 10-years, we have another plan ready to follow, we certainly are not going to wait another 10 years to reach a solution.

I can promise you that in 2004, we will be out there accessing our rights! We will do so with or without the support of the government, and we will do so openly and upfront.

#28. Fears unfounded
Gray Wolf
It has come to my attention that there is a great fear among the status Indians that I might eventually testify as an expert witness for the crown against them in their court cases.

The question one should ask is " Why are they so afraid ?" . Is it because our nation is the only Indian band in Atlantic Canada made up exclusively of descendants of actual treaty signers?

Maybe it is because our grand council is composed solely of actual descendants of both known treaty signers as well as documented grand chiefs of the original Wabanaki confederacy?

Maybe it is because for 10 years none ever give us any type of support! Maybe it is because some of their people attacked us from day one, accusing us of being wannabes, liars, frauds, and culture stealers. Maybe it is because we are the only French speaking Indians in the Atlantic provinces.
(my bold )

# 29 Part. 1 Court decides on native logging case [WITH COMMENT FROM GRAY WOLF]; By: CBC
FREDERICTON ? New Brunswick's Court of Queen's Bench ruled Monday that members of First Nations communities in New Brunswick can cut trees on Crown land for their personal use. (con..)

Gray Wolf
This is great news for our group ! It means that after December, we will have the right to log throughout N.B. wherever and whenever we want, that is, if we win, which is highly likely.Of course! We then have to establish ourselves in N.S. to set up operations there and extend our territory, followed by PEI and then Maine, it is all part of our plan.

# 38. Reflections; By: Wiskipkpaqtism
Gray Wolf
I can understand the mentality of those who have attacked us from the start, after-all! We came out of he blue and suddenly we went native, their reasoning was "where were they when we were suffering?" I can understand them not wanting us to get a share of what they have, again! They feel they did all the fighting, why share the spoils of war with non-combatants! I have no problem with their arguments, and I respect their rights to them, and their right to fight us tooth and nail to defend their views that we are not native. Again! It is their right. Their right as natives, and their rights as human beings, we are the outsiders in their mind, and they want to make sure we remain just that! On the other hand, we are not going to roll-over and play dead to make their task any easier, it is our right to contest the same things they consider as theirs.
(my bold)

# 40 Message to all Acadian Metis Indians; By: Wiskipkpaqtism
I find it very disturbing that the domesticated (status) Mi'kmaqs have joined forces with the "brainwashed" French Acadians to implement a government plan to bury all the traces of the true Acadian and Indian culture, to the tune of 100-million dollars or more.

There French "spin-doctor" groups are selling a history that never happened! It is all a big fabrication used to steal treaty rights that are worth over 1-billion dollars which many FRENCH ACADIANS, not RESERVE INDIANS, are legally entitled to.
(my bold)

The CNSM also sounds like it feels it's members should be entitled to whatever belongs to Aboriginal people.

Confederacy of Nova Scotia Métis- Application Info

Membership is open to all Métis individuals, who either reside in Nova Scotia or whose families originated in Nova Scotia. A Métis person is:

a) a person of mixed Native and non-Native heritage (Native being Native American);
b) a person who self-identifies as Métis; and
c) who is accepted by a Métis Community as being Métis.

All three criteria must be met, as well as proof of Native heritage being provided upon application. There is NO blood-quantum requirement. We do not see ourselves as simply being a percentage of our Native heritage, but as being 100% Métis and nothing else. ( my bold)

Our members come from all walks of life and heritage. Most are Indigenous Métis, whose Native heritage is Mi'kmaq, while others are western Métis whose Native heritage may be Cree, Ojibwa, Blackfoot, Sioux or any other What is the Certificate of Aboriginal Status Issued By the CNSM?

First and foremost, it is a membership card signifying that you are a member of the Confederacy of Nova Scotia Métis and our National Affiliate, the Canadian Métis Council.

CNSM  represents and responds to the political, social, cultural and economic interests of  Nova Scotia's Métis People.

It is an identification card - signifying that you are a person of Aboriginal ancestry and recognized under the Canada Constitution Act, 1982 as such, and therefore have all the rights, opportunities and privileges accorded to Aboriginal people. This card system is similar to the way "Status" Indians are registered with the Government of Canada through Indian Affairs and receive a "Certificate of Indin Status" card with an identification number.

Used as an identification card for purposes including, but not limited to, the following:

      Harvesting rights (hunting, fishing, trapping, gathering)(still negotiating)

      Employment (eg. Some employers ask for proof of Aboriginal ancestry in order for person to participate in an employment equity program)

      Education (eg. Some institutions ask for proof of Aboriginal ancestry in order for a person to access
Aboriginal-specific bursaries, scholarships, programs)

      Procurement (eg. A certain portion of Governments Services contracts are set aside specifically for Aboriginal people/companies and also require proof of Aboriginal ancestry
More people claiming Metis Status in NS

HALIFAX  -  The list of people claiming to be Metis in the Maritimes is growing as a result of a Supreme Court decision.

The ruling, known as the Powley case, recognized a group in Ontario as Metis and gave its members the same hunting and fishing rights as native people.

Now people claiming to be Metis in the Maritimes want the same benefits.

Many First Nations groups are not keen on the Metis claims either.

Tony Cunningham, who calls himself a Metis from Nova Scotia, disagrees but says he understands the natives' position.

"I can answer this way: If you had a gold mine you wouldn't me to be panning for gold on the weekends in your gold mine," he says.
Ron Surette, the speaker for the Confederacy of Nova Scotia Metis, has been fighting to get his members recognized as Metis for several years. He says he makes it clear when anyone in his organization sells a Metis card that it's for identification only.

"Probably some day we'll have some rights. Right now we have no rights at all," says Surette.

I only have a very limited understanding of this , but , if these people ever got what they want , it seems this would be really tilted towards disolving what makes First Nations distinct from general Canadian society . None of these groups claiming a right to Aboriginal property seem to have any blood quantum . If they got what they want , it seems like a large number of non native people who's families have been here for centuries would have " Aboriginal title" because of some 9 X Great grandmother, while Canadas First Nations people have their childrens right to Aboriginal title cut off after two generations of out marriage . How can these mixed blood groups imagine they have indefinent entitlment to anything - when First Nations people haven't even got that themselves ? Maybe I am not understanding something but as an outsider looking at the surface , it seems a more than a bit unfair and unrealistic . 

It would be interesting to hear what the Mi'kmaq people think about these Metis Indian groups .

PODIAs declaring themselves a tribe and the problems these groups create , are often discussed in NAFPS .

Is there some difference in the political or social structure, of the Native or non native communities , in the US and Canada, that makes PODIAs with a sense of entitlement a problem in the US but not in Canada  ?

If so , that would be interesting , because maybe we could learn something from the area where this is not a problem .

Offline Moma_porcupine

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Re: Acadian Metis ?
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2007, 05:05:18 pm »
In doing a search on Acadian Metis I stumbled on this ;

Seems like John Williams has been questioned in respect to some of his other claims  .

Dr. John J. Williams,( Doctorate of Divinity)
Legally Ordained Baptist Minister
Founder Logitarian Christianity
High Priest of the Interi Shinto Sect.
Inheritor of Saigo Ha Takeda Ryu ( Daito-Ryu )
9th dan - Daito-Ryu
10th Dan Shito-Ryu Karate Do
10th Dan Shinto-Ryu Aiki Bujutsu
7th Dan Kuniba Ha Shito-Ryu Karate Do (FAJKO)
3rd Dan Kodokan Judo
Member World Head Founders Council
Inducted World Head founders Council Hall Of Fame
World Record Holder for breaking untreated ice with bare knuckle punch
Judo, Karate and Kickboxing Champion
Canadan Weighlifting Record Holder
Began martial arts training in 1947
Golden Gloves Boxer
Former Police Officer
Certified Police Instructor
Founder Nation Of Acadian Metis ( Indian Movement )
Native American Activist
Eastern Woodland Indian
(my bold - this is the same guy .... )

Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:10 pm   

I have never met this Christian minister/Shinto Priest/Daito-Ryu Master.

From checking out his website and what has been happening on the various Martial arts forums, I don't think I want to.

The webpage above links here

Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 2:29 pm     
Toby Threadgill

What an interesting tale your post tells. I was frankly shocked by the absurdity of the information on their website but I guess I shouldn't have been. You see I've actually met Mr John Williams. (con..)

I won't repost the story told about John Williams , as I can't know if it is true , but it is interesting reading and sounds similar to his claiming to be more Indian than the Indians  ...

Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 9:41 am     
Toby Threadgill

I've been pondering Mr Williams.....

Reading the various protestations Mr Williams has placed on various discussion boards leave a very odd picture of the man. But lets leave that alone and focus on the historical claims presented on his website.

He places all this dubious historical info on his website. When confronted with conflicting accounts of his version of  history (provided by people with access to historical documentation) he explains it away as his teacher possibly lying to him. Interesting. Does he remove the dubious historical info from his site? No. He instead says for others to provide hard evidence to prove him wrong and only then will he retract his info.

Firstly, who's he trying to fool here? It's not up to us to provide evidence to counter his claims. He put up the website. It is his responsibility to back up his claims with verifiable proof. He provides none concerning Saigo ha Daito ryu!

Secondly, just what constitutes hard evidence in this guys mind?

Unfortunantly the guy doesn't look like he is just prone to making harmless exaggerated claims   ...  I also found this ;

Resources minister worried about violence
Last Updated: Wednesday, November 24, 1999 | 8:26 AM ET
CBC News
The Natural Resources Minister has pulled his rangers out of the woods in the northwest near Saint Quentin out of fears for their safety. The minister says a group calling themselves Acadian Metis have started an illegal logging operation and he's worried there could be violence.

A group of Acadian Metis says it's exercising its treaty right to cut wood on Crown land. Metis are not recognized as status Indians under the Indian Act and many natives living on reserves don't seem to want to recognize them either.

The Metis are not the status Indians who've been challenging the Marshall decision in the woods, in the courts and in the media. The Metis have some Indian ancestry but not enough to qualify as a First Nations people under the Indian Act.

Brian Hoffman, a Tobique warrior says: "If you're a native in here as far as we're concerned you're a native."

Hoffman is also a status Indian but, he says native blood entitles the Metis to rights under the old treaties even if that blood comes from several generations back.

Chief Second Peter Barlow disagrees. Barlow says a splash of native blood in your family tree doesn't make you a full-status Indian. "They haven't asked me as the President of the Union of New Brunswick Indians to try to establish what rights, if any, they do have," he says.

Meanwhile, Natural Resources Minister Jeannot Volpe says the province is holding firm to the position it's held all along.

"What they're doing now is illegal and it'll have to be addressed," Volpe said.

If there's one thing the government and the chiefs can agree on it's that the Metis are new and unwanted players in delicate  treaty negotiations. The chiefs will try to convince the government there are so few natives in the province that they will  have very little impact on natural resources. The government believes there are already too many native interests at the bargaining table.

Sounds like this Acadian Metis group is managing to confuse recognition of Aboriginal title in their area . 

If there are some pockets of people, who through continued intermarriage in a small isolated community , might be considered Acadian Metis , ( such as the so called Bras D'or Indians may ? be ) I am not sure this guy is doing them any favour, by claiming to represent them ....

Offline lejeunekin

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Re: Acadian Metis ?
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2009, 01:47:47 pm »
I find it very interesting that people think they know who my ancestors were. I am a brasdorindian. I decsend from Phillipe d'Azy Mius of Cape Sable and many other proud native lines. I live in Little Bras d'Or, Cape Breton this was an old indian village. My lejeune/Young ancestors lost all rights because indians were not allowed to own land. My ancestor Francois Lejeune/Young was also forced to have land grant drawen up in English version Francis Young. In those days to survive. For all those who say the brasdorindians are not native decsentants do not know the facts or the histoy. No one!! be him Chief or be him the Pope is not going to keep me or my family from my ancestors or the rights that they were denied by the English government of the RC Church. We lived with our hidden history for long enough, no more. Erich Burton is no longer our selfelected Chief. People like him only want to cash in on our rights.
everyone is just going to have to except this truth.
Nancy Swan 

Offline Superdog

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Re: Acadian Metis ?
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2009, 02:43:05 pm »
Hello Nancy,

I think you'll find that in the end people here are more on your side than you realize.  The comments about "so-called" Bras D'or Indians and others are the results of those you've obviously seen through as well.  Those that just want to cash in on being Indian.  You seem to have a good hold on your own ancestry and the story of your community.  It's the individuals that jump up and declare themselves Chief of a people they know nothing about that have sullied your ancestors.  Many of the Acadian Metis groups that have popped up and disappeared over and over again are guilty of this and it's those individuals who should be ashamed and who this board looks down upon.  John Williams is the name that pops up as having tried to cash in on this the most, but fortunately his true story is out now and he has disappeared into obscurity.  That's the point of outing people like that and it's sad indeed that their names get associated with the true descendants who've always maintained their identity even when it was a bad idea to do so.  The downfall of Erich Burton is another example.

It's truly ok for you to educate others here.  Get your real story out so that those that wish to be Indian only because they think it's a ticket to free land and no taxes get washed away under the truth.


Offline Moma_porcupine

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Re: Acadian Metis ?
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2009, 05:51:06 pm »
Hi Nancy

The fact that Phillipe d'Azy Mius of Cape Sable had his children with a Mi'kmaq wife back in the late 1600's is well documented and backed up by mtDNA . Nobody is disputing that !  :) 

Generally speaking this message board doesn't spend a lot of time worrying about individual genealogies , it is more the bigger issues of what individuals do with these genealogies and the impact this can have on public recognition of and respect for continuously existing tribal governments and First Nations.

A good thread to read if you are interested in debates of some of the broader issues would be

In reply #7 of that thread there is also some links to related discussions.

Offline porkypine

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Re: Acadian Metis ?
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2009, 12:00:27 am »
 :o  I see all this stuff about them wanting recognition so they can 'hunt and fish and LOG because it's worth millions?  That is so scary!  The loggers have already devastated the area!   My family is from Calais but I haven't been back there since 1985 - back then it was terrible how they just cut the forests down like they are farm crops!  New Brunswick was trashed when I was there - same as the terrible logging going on in British Columbia.

Hey Nancy... The Bras d'Or is beautiful place....  :)
Get used to it... I CAN NOT type worth a darn.. lol


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Re: Acadian Metis ?
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2009, 05:40:12 pm »
i can tell you exactly what effect these fraudulent metis associations have had on Mi'kmaw communities. There are many of these acadian metis with membership cards that were photocopied from the Status Card the Feds issued, and what happens it that now in Port Hawksbury the are 2 major retailers who no longer allow status cards to be used to take advantage of the No Tax rights on merchandise, such a right we fought long and hard to maintain with non-native vendors or off reserve dept stores. And i know of the committee who struck the list mentioned personally. They are very real and the current holder of the Wapana'ki Confederacy Bundle lives on the St Mary's First Nation in Fredericton, N.B.
We have also fought hard and long for the two National Aboriginal Caucus associations, the Native Council of Nova Scotia and the Native Council of New Brunswick. i suggest very strongly that Ms Swan and the Bras D'or Lakes metis to join such a council. because in the Tri-Partite negotiations involving Treaty Beneficiaries and the rights they have with the Feds and the Province; the Native Council of NS and NB are the only metis organizations that are sitting at the negotiation tables in the Maritimes and they are already serving the people very well.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2009, 10:36:56 pm by apukjij »

Offline Don Naconna

  • Posts: 257
Re: Acadian Metis ?
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2009, 10:30:13 pm »
There was another thread mentioning this warning awhile back. I believe someone had some questions about an alleged shaman in Maine who claimed to be part of one of the groups in the warning.

I remember trying to do searches on most of the groups in the warning and finding in most cases these seemed to be heritage groups, but mostly not intending to do harm.

My understanding of Metis culture (as an outsider) is that the Metis generally lived apart from both whites and recognized status NDNs. This is how the Metis culture was created. Those mixedbloods who managed to "pass" among either status NDNs or whites for several centuries by definition wouldn't be considered Metis. They and their ancestors didn't grow up in the culture. BQ doesn't play a part as far as I know.

The fact is that the French intermarried with Cree and Ojibwe women much like Spanish married Indian women. This was encouraged by the regime ancienne (French) but discouraged by the Hudson Bay Company after the fall of Quebec. The Metis are a distinct culture and language based on French and Cree. Being a PODIA is not the same as being Metis, most of the people who claim to be Metis are not.

But anyone knowing different, go ahead and correct me.

Offline Moma_porcupine

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Re: Acadian Metis ?
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2009, 11:35:53 pm »
Hi Apukjij and welcome!

And i know of the committee who struck the list mentioned personally. They are very real and the current holder of the Wapana'ki Confederacy Bundle lives on the St Mary's First Nation in Fredericton, N.B.

If I understand you correctly, you sound like you are reffering to the list of bogus native groups published by the Wabanaki Confederacy?

A number of the groups mentioned on the list as being a problem, are branches of the Confederacy of Nova Scotia Métis.

I have a question about that , and maybe you could explain what is going on with this ...

Below is a link to the offficial Governement of Canada's webpage where they link to information on obtaining a Metis card.

Indian Status

Recognition by the federal government of persons registered under the Indian Act is referred to as Registered Indian Status.  Status Indians are entitled to a wide range of programs and services offered by federal agencies, provincial governments and the private sector.

You may also be interested in:

    * McIvor: Amendments to Registration Provisions of the Indian Act
    * Métis Card
    * Band Employee Benefits
    * Inuit Beneficiary
    * Searching for Your Ancestor?
    * First Nations Statistics
    * Aboriginal Canada Portal
    * Benefits Information, Non-Insured Health Benefits, First Nations and Inuit Health, Health Canada
    * Status Indians, Aboriginal Peoples, Canada Revenue Agency 
    * You Wanted to Know – Most Frequently Asked Questions
(my bold)

The link on obtaining a Metis card goes to the webpage linked to below . There is a list of provinces and for Nova Scotia, it links to  Confederacy of Nova Scotia Métis

The Confederacy of Nova Scotia Métis was created and exists to foster, promote and preserve the Métis identity and heritage.

The link that is on the government of canada's website to the Confederacy of Nova Scotia Métis is below...

In the link above to the Confederacy of Nova Scotia Métis is a link to membership information.

I think I already posted this above , but it sounds like this organization includes anyone of any Native descent , no matter where they are from or how far back their ancestry is.

Membership Information

Membership is open to all Métis individuals who reside in Nova Scotia or whose family originated in Nova Scotia. A Métis person is:
      a person of mixed Native-American and non-Native-American heritage;
      a person who self-identifies as Métis; and
       accepted by a Métis community as being Métis

All three criteria must be met as well as providing proof of Native-American heritage upon applying for membership. There is NO blood quantum requirement. We do not see ourselves as simply being a percentage of our Native-American heritage, but as being 100% Métis and nothing else.


Our members come from all walks of life and heritage. Most are indigenous Métis of Mi'kmaw and Wampanoag heritage. Others are western Métis whose heritage may be Cree, Ojibwa, Blackfoot, Sioux, or others. Our commonalities are our inability to walk comfortably in the everyday worlds of either side of our heritage, and our wish to simply be who we are - Métis.

Else where in NAFPS , it gets explained over and over that the government recognized Metis in canada are a specific group of people and ARE NOT just any group of people of some Native descent who get together and decide they are Metis.

In yet here is a government of canada webpage which seeems to recognize a group of Metis which is just a group of people of distant decent from various tribes getting together to try and get access to resources in traditional Mik'maq territory.... ?

Why would someone of Blackfoot descent expect to have fishing and hunting rights in Nova Scotia ?

How do the Mi'kmaq feel about this? Is there a range of opinions or one opinion that is most common?

Does the Wabanaki confederacy still feel the Confederacy of Nova Scotia Métis is a problem  ?

Is the canadian governement aiding and abbetting this problem by seeming to recognize this groups claims as legit?

There is an organization in canada called the Congress of Aboriginal People which is funded by the government of canada, and from some of what i read about this , it seemed like the government of canada may be intentionly recognizing and funding organizations which represent people with very distant native descent, so they can justify removing funding from Canadian First Nations communities. After seeing that, I don't assume that just because this Metis group is mentioned on the government canada's website , that means it is legit. 

And if this group is legit , wouldn't any group of people of distant Indian ancestry who get together claiming to be Metis, be just as justified in making this claim ?

How would that, as a general principal, effect the soverienty of continuously existing tribal Nations ?
« Last Edit: September 17, 2009, 12:15:13 am by Moma_porcupine »


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Re: Acadian Metis ?
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2009, 09:11:31 pm »
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« Last Edit: May 29, 2010, 08:16:05 am by nighthawk »


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Re: Acadian Metis ?
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2009, 11:01:42 pm »
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« Last Edit: May 29, 2010, 08:15:09 am by nighthawk »


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Re: Acadian Metis ?
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2009, 11:59:23 pm »
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« Last Edit: May 29, 2010, 08:14:43 am by nighthawk »