NAFPS Forum
NAFPS Archives => Archive No. 1 => Topic started by: frederica on June 23, 2008, 05:03:07 pm
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Anyone familiar with Dennis "Rocky" King. http://www.rivercircle.org/pages/events.html
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http://www.nativeamericacalling.com/ram/2007/aug/083007.m3u
NA Calling doesn't seem to care for him, since they used him as Exhibit A for pay to pray people.
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http://www.nativeamericacalling.com/nac_past2007a.shtml
You can have salvation of the spirit and learn old Indian ways to boot, just send a check or credit card number and you too can become a certified Medicine Man or Medicine Woman. For an affordable price, you can also pay for healing ceremonies, sweat lodges, and other spiritual cleansing. How do you feel about paying for prayers? Native medicine people have always offered their services in exchange for a blanket or a pouch of tobacco , but is cold hard cash asking too much? Our Guest is Dennis "Rocky" King of the Oneida Nation of Wisconsin, who runs Creator's Helper.
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I was asked to appear on that same program, but couldn't because of my work schedule.
His site has been disabled.
http://www.creatorshelper.com/
Part of United Communities of Spirit.
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http://origin.org/ucs/profile.cfm?uid=116605
DENNIS KING
ONEIDA WISCONSIN USA 54155
URL 1: http://WWW.CREATORSHELPER.COM
Email subscription: No
Faith: Native American
UCS Member since: 12/15/2005
Last login: 12/19/2005
Personal Introduction
I'm a native american spiritual healer,I work with all races and all walks of life.This gift has been past on,on my fathers side,my great grandfather was a healer.Also,this is all creators and I can not do this without him or her!I'm just Rocky!but the creator uses me to help others.This is all I do!I dont work for man no more,I work for the creator,and he provides!I do live off my gift,because I can.
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There's also a Shinnecock/Mohegan artist of the same name he should not be confused with.
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Hello all I am happy to say that our community here in Iowa has stopped this man from comming this july 3rd. We also have info on him where he is from. New Mexico where he still lives. Truly this white boy is sneaky taking advantage of people if any one has more quetions please visit us at crfirstnations.4t.com.
A-ho
Mark
P.S. More info just came in. There is a Women by the name of Venus Bright Star (google) she owns a shop in New mexico and
passes out cards to this fraud refering healing for money. our investigation also reaveled that the new age people are the targets
this guy has made alot of money selling our indian ways please contact us if he is near you so we can put a stop to this fraud.
a-ho
mark
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Venus Bright Star shows up in a lot of Indian art shows, plus business links to her gallery.
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http://www.craftsreport.com/august03/feature.html
Venus Bright Star, daughter of an Aztec mother and a Muskogee father, was born in Evansville, Ind., and exhibits her work at shows like the Cantigny Sculpture and Fine Arts Festival in Wheaton, Ill., the TACA Crafts Fair in Nashville, Tenn., and the Wyandotte Street Art Fair in Wyandotte, Mich. While she finds buyers at these venues alongside non-Native American artists, Bright Star says she sells only authentic Native American crafts and fine jewelry at shows and at the Venus Brightstar Rising Gallery in Lyles, Texas. “I use the traditional methods of jewelry design perfected by my people centuries ago,??? she says.
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Though she says she's Nahua and Muskogee, her site opens with Lakota sayings and the Nuage mantra "we create our own reality."
http://www.venusbrightstar.com/
Has a link on her site to the Machis tribe. Does anyone know if the fed recognized Muscogee recognize them in turn?
http://www.machistribe.com/
Not sure why, but they regard a Torah from 1100 years ago as very important.
http://www.machistribe.com/heritage.htm
Some of their council titles strike me as strange.
http://www.machistribe.com/people.htm
A reposted article from the local paper about them.
http://www.citizensalliance.org/links/pages/news/National%20News/Alabama.htm
The really bizarre thing is that the article is hosted on the site of a notorious ANTI Indian group, the so called Citizens Equal Rights Alliance.
This discussion on a myspace board says they are state recognized and require A (meaning just one) lineal ancestor on the rolls.
http://forum.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=messageboard.viewThread&entryID=37628848&groupID=106114781&adTopicID=8&Mytoken=C448B89D-47D9-4E55-BF934F1953894F70399198
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Hello all I am happy to say that our community here in Iowa has stopped this man from comming this july 3rd. We also have info on him where he is from. New Mexico where he still lives. Truly this white boy is sneaky taking advantage of people if any one has more quetions please visit us at crfirstnations.4t.com.
A-ho
Mark
P.S. More info just came in. There is a Women by the name of Venus Bright Star (google) she owns a shop in New mexico and
passes out cards to this fraud refering healing for money. our investigation also reaveled that the new age people are the targets
this guy has made alot of money selling our indian ways please contact us if he is near you so we can put a stop to this fraud.
a-ho
mark
I don't know too much about Dennis "Rocky" King in the healer bizness. He is not a white boy though. He is an enrolled Oneida member.
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ravenhair and educatedindian: I am an Oneida Tribal Member who knows Dennis J. "Rocky" King---and I must say I do appreciate the NAFPS Forums' vigilant and well-intended protection of American Indian traditional ways and skills from dilution and harm through fraud and/or wrongful imitation.
However I assure you the knee-jerk speculations and baseless accusations regarding Mr. King are without merit. First Dennis J. "Rocky" King is a member of the Bear Clan of the Oneida Nation of Wisconsin. He is a 4/4 blood enrolled Oneida tribal member. His Oneida Indian longhouse name is Lalutake'htas which means "He Scratches The Trees".
To speculate and say that he must be "some white boy" is as close to being accurate as to say "Who is Rodney Grant? Must be some White Boy".
As for Rocky's work as a private and group healer as Creatorshelper is really none of any one's business who is not interested in his work; however if they are interested, Rocky utilizes his gifts to help people and all living things to whatever extent he can through traditional ways and philosophies as he has learned them from his teachers.
Rocky was born and raised on the Oneida Reservation in Wisconsin and made the committment to this path over ten years ago as it is a gift in his family to help people. He practices traditional and alternative approches to spiritual and physical healing amongst any of those open minded or interested in what he has to offer. Rocky graciously accepts the allegedly evil "cash" payment as an exchange of energies between people, also barter, and sometimes, more often than not, for "free" ( since you seem so obsessed with such terminology and designations).
Rocky works with all sorts of alternative healers of differing practices and approches to healing and spiritual awarness, and of course, especially, all those open to it and open-minded about possible ways of healing and working with the Creator and all blessings. Unfortunately this group would seem to not include either of you.
ravenhair and educatedindian: I ask you to take down and retract your negative inferences and connotations regarding Dennis J. Rocky King. Your noble efforts on behalf of indigenous peoples' ways are misplaced here, brother and sister. Please continue in the spirit of coming together and loving one another a-ho.
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As for Rocky's work as a private and group healer as Creatorshelper is really none of any one's business who is not interested in his work; however if they are interested, Rocky utilizes his gifts to help people and all living things to whatever extent he can through traditional ways and philosophies as he has learned them from his teachers.
Rocky was born and raised on the Oneida Reservation in Wisconsin and made the committment to this path over ten years ago as it is a gift in his family to help people. He practices traditional and alternative approches to spiritual and physical healing amongst any of those open minded or interested in what he has to offer. Rocky graciously accepts the allegedly evil "cash" payment as an exchange of energies between people, also barter, and sometimes, more often than not, for "free" ( since you seem so obsessed with such terminology and designations).
Rocky works with all sorts of alternative healers of differing practices and approches to healing and spiritual awarness, and of course, especially, all those open to it and open-minded about possible ways of healing and working with the Creator and all blessings. Unfortunately this group would seem to not include either of you.
ravenhair and educatedindian: I ask you to take down and retract your negative inferences and connotations regarding Dennis J. Rocky King. Your noble efforts on behalf of indigenous peoples' ways are misplaced here, brother and sister. Please continue in the spirit of coming together and loving one another a-ho.
I didn't quote your other parts where you confused what ravenhair said with what I did.
The first two things I bolded claim he is traditional. But the other items I bolded, you seem to confirm he is in fact a Nuager and works with them. Like almost all Natives and pretty much this entire forum, I see it as a shame to see traditional ways corrupted, something to be overcome or traditional ways will become entirely lost. Obviously you disagree. But it is the business of everyone who cares about traditional ways.
I also asked you in a private IM to consider changing your online ID in here or people will likely confuse us. I know you use the name elsewhere, as does another with a similar name. I don't think any harm was intended, just want to avoid any confusion.
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My question would be if this person is Oneida
why use a Kiowa word in their post?
Aho is Kiowa,
Is the poster an enrolled member?
Are they just posting for the enrolled member?
Selling ceremonie is wrong even if they are
enrolled if fact is it more shameful
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boy everyone on here sure loves labels sheesh..."nuager" "white boy"...i guess labels do help you put down people much easier...yet people are tired with this Sarah Palin brand of politics..
oh and I guess no other Indian except the Kiowa have ever heard of the expression a-ho
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It's amusing how a supporter will come and try to be very adult about the
issue, and then when confronted with questions or facts, will then turn
to childish taunts intended to insult. But they don't insult, they only
show who we are dealing with.. and it doesn't change the facts..
The fact remains clear that this "Rocky" is not acting within traditions
if he is diluting the traditions with new age beliefs, and charging fees.
Which btw, EN helped to prove with his/her post.
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boy everyone on here sure loves labels sheesh..."nuager" "white boy"...i guess labels do help you put down people much easier...yet people are tired with this Sarah Palin brand of politics..
oh and I guess no other Indian except the Kiowa have ever heard of the expression a-ho
we all heard the expression aho my point is it is a kiowa word belonging to the kiowa people why would a Oneida use a kiowa word and not his own language? The only people who use that word extensivly is new ager because they don't know what it means or where it came from. I am LaKOTA i use my own language because i know who i am, so my point is are you kiowa or a newager?
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who knows where a-ho came from and who cares indians know what it means--and who cares about the triviality of what salutation i use--whats much much worse is your Fundamentlist intolerance---go to Afghanistan where you may be more at home with the Taliban--- seems like you are both the supreme holy arbiters of everything American Indian! we have found the Supreme Indians! critter,earthw7 and educatedindian! --childish? do tell since i only quote back your own childish insulting lables "nuager" "whiteboy" etc.
racist if you ask me...guess you have never been to a pow-wow where money is spent on everything from Fry Bread to beads to sweet grass to moccasins all have a function that natives live off of ...evidentially the entire tourist trade in all things indigenous to this land...so exactly how many are to blame and what are the boundaries you will dictate for everyone to follow? Please tell us so we can follow you Supreme Indians who think whites who like Indians and pay money to them are the devil huh... but many Indians are tired of your backward sneering politics against old grudges and your own isolated existence...come into the light brothers and sisters
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Um, I'm not Indian. I doubt many of my beliefs are the same as theirs. But I
support the Native movement to keep their beliefs safe and sacred. I see how
they have fought and died to keep their beliefs and hand them down generation
to generation. I honor that because for one thing, it's amazing, but mostly
because people have a right to the beliefs they were given, and no one has the
right to take those beliefs and bastardize them.. there is no time in my life
that I didn't despise missionary work and all the harm they do to indigenous
cultures..
And there is no time in my life where I didn't despise this new age movement
thing that is so full of BS it's pathetic. I have never met any so called new age
person or "lightworker" that would help a person without a fee. And that, IMO
is WRONG
My spiritual upbringing was very strict on that subject. A gift is a gift.. tell me,
do you charge people when you hand them a birthday or christmas gift?
I will forever fight this misconception that the spiritual can be made into a
material gain.
And, I will forever support the indigenous peoples of the world their rights
to their beliefs and fight the misappropriation and bastardization of their beliefs.
It's wrong. You disagree, that's up to you.
And for the record, you are still showing us only your immaturity by reacting in
such childish ways..
Be well.
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who knows where a-ho came from and who cares indians know what it means--and who cares about the triviality of what salutation i use--whats much much worse is your Fundamentlist intolerance---go to Afghanistan where you may be more at home with the Taliban--- seems like you are both the supreme holy arbiters of everything American Indian! we have found the Supreme Indians! critter,earthw7 and educatedindian! --childish? do tell since i only quote back your own childish insulting lables "nuager" "whiteboy" etc.
racist if you ask me...guess you have never been to a pow-wow where money is spent on everything from Fry Bread to beads to sweet grass to moccasins all have a function that natives live off of ...evidentially the entire tourist trade in all things indigenous to this land...so exactly how many are to blame and what are the boundaries you will dictate for everyone to follow? Please tell us so we can follow you Supreme Indians who think whites who like Indians and pay money to them are the devil huh... but many Indians are tired of your backward sneering politics against old grudges and your own isolated existence...come into the light brothers and sisters
I know what it means and so should you if you want to use the word, I asked an honest question and know I am supreme ;D thank u, I guess you are going to explain to me how a social gathering like a pow-wow related to a ceremony? They both are different. A social gathering were people sell there ware and show the type of dances whiuch is different from pray ceremony
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critter: if you're not indian then where do you get the authority to judge what other indians can and cannot do? Is Rocky judging you on your profession or beliefs?
earthw7: glad you feel supreme, please correct the typos...selling prayer? so just tell me then..whats the great evil difference between "selling" prayer and selling, say, dreamcatchers at a pow-wow?
and btw i notice how your arguments depend on the emphasis on "charging" and "fees"...yet Rocky works for no charge at all often, or what about barter? donations? none of you mention that, interesting how you pick and choose your terminology to imply guilt---you people are like corrupt prosecutors! what a joke..
though earthw7 u do have some spunk so thats nice..glad u feel supreme lol :)
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EN, I have no authority to tell any person anywhere what they can and cannot do.
No one does, except for law enforcers.
But I have my beliefs, and I found here some like minded people who also believe
it is wrong to sell Spirit and that it is wrong to mix and match belief systems. I'm
lucky I found this forum, as it's getting harder to find people who have not justified
the conversion of the spiritual to the material.
Anyone can judge me any way they want. Doesn't change my beliefs.
I don't believe in making any person feel they have to pay or barter for
spiritual things, and most certainly not for prayer or for having someone
pray for them or do ceremony for them.
Whether a person wishes to give something back without any kind of insinuation at all
from the other, that's entirely up to them. But should never be asked for or made
part of it.
That's what I believe, and from reading the forum I have seen others here
believe that too. It's nice to find people who think that. I'm lucky to have
found this place, and I will stand with them if they'll have me.
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Anyone can judge me any way they want. Doesn't change my beliefs.
Rocky says "same here", so please, no more je accuse'
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Hi EN and a belated welcome to the forum.
I listened to part of the radio show on Native America Calling which was posted by Al. One of the things that Dennis said really bothers me. He said, "Love is the most powerful thing. Love, that's what heals everything. The energy keeps things together, it's like glue. Love will over-come everything.". It makes me incredibly sad that somebody can charge money for love. The first thing it made me think of was prostitution. I don't like the idea of something sacred being prostituted.
I personally have a problem with individuals charging for healing. I have a problem with bastardizing, exploiting and selling of culture. I have two children and a grandchild, I would like to see my traditions intact for my great grandchildren and for those who come after them. It upsets me and disturbs me that healing, in a traditional manner, is being turned into a commodity. I know healers from my community, they remain in my community, and there is no charge for healing people. Most of the healers I know have 'day jobs' that pay their bills. Those that don't are supported by the community in a traditional way. We make sure they have wood, food, winter coats, etc. The support is maintained in a traditional manner. If somebody from outside the community hapoens to come to them for healing they are never turned away and no compensation is expected. When indigenous healing is brought to the dominant culture and a price tag is attached, it does nothing to teach the dominant culture about how things are conducted in our world, it is simply catering to something that has far too much power, the almighty dollar.
racist if you ask me...guess you have never been to a pow-wow where money is spent on everything from Fry Bread to beads to sweet grass to moccasins all have a function that natives live off of ...evidentially the entire tourist trade in all things indigenous to this land...so exactly how many are to blame and what are the boundaries you will dictate for everyone to follow? Please tell us so we can follow you Supreme Indians who think whites who like Indians and pay money to them are the devil huh... but many Indians are tired of your backward sneering politics against old grudges and your own isolated existence...come into the light brothers and sisters
What are the boundaries you would dictate? Is everything for sale? Are you comfortable with there being no line in the sand as to what is appropriate? Are you comfortable with things being adulterated to the point that the original integrity of what is sacred is lost?
You mention that everyone here uses terms such as white boy. In reading through the thread there was one person who referred to Dennis as a white boy and that statement was corrected by another poster. If Dennis is using traditional healing as well as new age healing then what is the proper term that should be applied? While you think it is unfair that some individuals are not comfortable in the manner in which your friend operates, not every member of this forum has chimed in. How is it fair that you vilify every member of the forum? Last I checked, two wrongs don’t make a right.
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Anyone can judge me any way they want. Doesn't change my beliefs.
Rocky says "same here", so please, no more je accuse'
So, Rocky believes it's OK to sell Spirit and to mix the traditional ways with
new age ways thus diluting the ways that have been handed down and
that people have fought and died for so as to stop the genocide of the
of Native peoples and their way of life.
So it is not surprising that he is being considered as an exploiter of Native traditions
and is in the research needed section of this forum.
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but many Indians are tired of your backward sneering politics against old grudges and your own isolated existence...come into the light brothers and sisters
Just so that I understand and don't go off into an unnecessary tangent, are you suggesting assimilation?
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To be fair I listened to the entire Native America Calling show. The majority of ndn people who called in were more comfortable with fair compensation however they were not so comfortable with the exploitation and appropriation that comes out of pay to pray services. Dennis handled the criticism with grace and seemed to acknowledge and accept the fact that there were going to be members of the community that would criticize him. He did not talk down to or about those who criticized nor did he try twist what he was doing into something else in order to save face.
This does not mean that I agree with what he is doing, though I do appreciate the manner in which he handled the topic. He didn't villify anyone.
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sky: thank you for your good words, and objective interpretation of the NA Calling show
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You're welcome. You didn't answer my questions ;)
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critter: why are we still talking to you? You just got done saying you have your beliefs and no one can change them. Rocky says the same thing so: stalemate. Nice alliteration on "selling Spirit"---once again your terminology is simplistic and loaded with bias. Ditto for 'exploiting native culture'..
sky: I did post something but it didn't post and i lost it...assimilation? um what year is this? 2011? Natives are assimilated all around the country living the dual realities of urban and traditional ways. Am i suggesting assimilation? im suggesting tolerance and open-mindedness thank you
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sky: another thing I said which got lost is this re: where is the line drawn? Arvol Looking Horse says where. Sedona, NM incident for one. Frauds and outright frauds, non-indians practicing ways without the knowledge or respect.
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I'm stating why he is listed on this forum in research needed.
As his representative, your dismissive and "try to insult" people attitude
leaves little to be desired and reflects onto him.
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I did post something but it didn't post and i lost it...assimilation? um what year is this? 2011? Natives are assimilated all around the country living the dual realities of urban and traditional ways. Am i suggesting assimilation? im suggesting tolerance and open-mindedness thank you
I understand that it is 2011 and that there needs to be a balance between traditional ways and the necessities dictated by surviving in modern culture.
Tolerance and open-mindedness go both ways and I'll be the first to admit that I am not the poster child for either. There are people who will agree with the manner in which Dennis conducts himself and there will be those of us who disagree. There's bound to be frustration and often times anger on both sides. If we keep catering to the excuse of modernization, eventually the traditional is going to be lost unless it is protected and it's sacredness maintained.
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sky: another thing I said which got lost is this re: where is the line drawn? Arvol Looking Horse says where. Sedona, NM incident for one. Frauds and outright frauds, non-indians practicing ways without the knowledge or respect.
Thank you. I agree with you 100% on that point!
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critter: dimissive? yah maybe but why not since you are the one who is je accuse' of Rocky. Also Rocky is not even here when I say this and has nothing to do with my arguments.
Plus its a stalemate so what else do you have to say except continue to utilize the terminology of Rocky exploiting native traditions, when he is the native american indian, not you, and they are his traditions, not yours? Unbelievable critter! you should be ashamed of yourself for being j accuse' on something you know nothing about nor have any real stake in. Rocky has suffered for his life and craft and critter, your accusations, though maybe well intentioned, are quite misplaced here.
sky: thank you
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Well, I'm not playing any games, so not sure what stalemate is supposed to mean.
As for me, I'm a member on a forum that ousts exploiters. If the forum does not
want me to speak up and ask about these things then they should probably delete
my account here.
As a member, I am supporter of keeping Native traditions safe and sacred. It would
be pointless to me, to support something and then, not support it.
I have nothing to be ashamed of. If I do, I'm positively certain the members here
would tell me so, and not someone who as I've seen countless other times come
in and state someone, native or not, is taking traditional ceremonies and mixing
in new age beliefs and asking for donations or fees.
Since ousting and trying to stop this type of activity is what this forum is about,
then my intentions are not misplaced here.
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educatedindian: I believe I have submitted ample information re: Dennis J Rocky King--- I ask that he be moved to the non-frauds section, genuine and trustworthy. Thank you.
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sky: another thing I said which got lost is this re: where is the line drawn? Arvol Looking Horse says where. Sedona, NM incident for one. Frauds and outright frauds, non-indians practicing ways without the knowledge or respect.
I hope that Dennis uses this conference http://www.midwestshamanicgathering.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=69&Itemid=92 (http://www.midwestshamanicgathering.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=69&Itemid=92) to speak with some of the other presenters as well as educate the public about those things you mentioned.
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educatedindian: I believe I have submitted ample information re: Dennis J Rocky King--- I ask that he be moved to the non-frauds section, genuine and trustworthy. Thank you.
Actually you did just the opposite. You confirmed he accepts payment for healing, and that he is much more in the althealing or Nuage movement than a traditionalist.
I grant you he is not anywhere as abusive as most of the people we deal with, no sign of the worser aspects. I doubt he belongs in the Frauds section. Research seems the most appropriate place for him.
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I have to agree, research is a good place
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ok so why don't u research and ask him first for his materials and information instead of this negative conjecture and inference---he would be happy to talk more with anyone on these issues thank you
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Hi EN
I have Dennis's number. I'll pm you to make sure it's current.
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Hi Sky, yes that is the correct number and it is current..all him anytime thanks
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I spoke with Dennis yesterday as well as with members of his community. His work is supported by them and he has worked directly for the community.