NAFPS Forum
General => Research Needed => Topic started by: Moma_porcupine on May 25, 2007, 07:07:30 pm
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I found this list a while back . I am not sure who wrote it , or if they know what they are talking about , but it made me wonder and I did some digging ;
http://web.archive.org/web/20040120031245/www.wabanakiconfederacy.com/appropriation.html (http://web.archive.org/web/20040120031245/www.wabanakiconfederacy.com/appropriation.html)
CULTURAL APPROPRIATION
cultural appropriation: The appropriation or taking of another people's culture.
The following organizations are NOT endorsed in any way by the Wabanaki Confederacy nor the Nations of the Wabanaki Confederacy. The Nations of the Wabanaki Confederacy being the Míkmaq (Micmac), Wolastoqiyik (Maliseet), Peskotomuhkatiyik (Passamaquoddy), Panawahpskewi (Penobscot), and Alnôbak (Abenaki), their respective governing Grand Councils, and their People. These organizations do not represent Wabanaki people in any way, and any claims to do so are fraudulent. They are not citizens of the Wabanaki Nations, and do not have any status as "Indian" with their own countries, the USA & Canada. These are American and Canadian citizens infringing on the rights of the Wabanaki People. Their claims are fraudulent, and their actions are cultural appropriation. The Wabanaki would like for the American and
Canadian governments to inact laws to protect the Wabanaki and other Aboriginal People from cultural appropriators and the organizations they invent.
Annapolis Valley Métis Council Member of the Confederacy of Nova Scotia Métis
Canadian Indian Movement ,Latest attempt at cultural theft by John Williams
Canadian Métis Indian Coalition ,Defunct organization of John Williams
Canadian Off-Reserve Indian Nations Inc. Headed by John Williams aka Gray Wolf, located in Moncton, NB
Casco Bay Métis ,Member of Métis Nation in New England, located in Falmouth, ME
Confederacy of Nova Scotia Métis ,Headed by Wendy Annand
East Coast First Peoples Alliance ,Former Nation of Acadian Métis Indians members in north-eastern New Brunswick created a new organization
Eastcoast Maritime Métis Council ,Another name for the NB/CMC Métis Council Inc.
Eastern Woodland Métis Nation of Nova Scotia , Former Confederacy of Nova Scotia Métis members in south-western Nova Scotia created a new organization
Eldawik Métis Council , Member of Confederacy of Nova Scotia Métis, located in Halifax, NS
Gray Wolf Maliseet Tribal Nation , Headed by John Williams, located in Moncton, NB
Gray Wolf Mi'kmaq Bands ,Another name for Wiskipkpaqtism Off-Reserve Mi'kmaq Bands
International Wabenaki Confederacy ,Another name for Maritime Off-Reserve Wabenaki Confederacy Inc.
Kespu'kwitk Métis Council ,Member of Confederacy of Nova Scotia Métis, located in Tusket, NS
Madockawando Abanaki Penobscot Indian Tribal Nation , Defunct organization of John Williams
Maritime Off-Reserve Wabenaki Confederacy Inc. , Headed by John Williams, located in Moncton, NB
Métis Eastern Tribal Indian Society of Maine , Headed by Bob Brawn aka Silver Eagle, located in Limerick, ME
Métis Nation in New England, Headed by Ken Nadreau aka Andahatey, located in Washington, NH
Nation of Acadian Métis Indians ,Headed by John Williams, located in Moncton
NB/CMC Métis Council Inc. ,Headed by Roland Levesque, located in northern NB
New Brunswick Woodland Métis Tribes Inc. ,Headed by John Williams, located in Moncton, NB
Pioneer Valley Métis Association , Member of Métis Nation in New England, located in Springfield, MA
Ponemah Metis Council of Connecticut , Member of Métis Nation in New England
Southern New Hampshire Métis Council , Member of Métis Nation in New England, located in Washington, NH
South West Nova Scotis Métis Council , Member of Confederacy of Nova Scotia Métis
Wabanaki International Sovereign Nation ,Headed by David Hill, located in Great Sacred Falls, VT
We'kopekwitk Métis Council , Member of Confederacy of Nova Scotia Métis, located in Truro, NS
Wesget Sipu ,Headed by David Walton, located in Fort Kent, ME
Wibgui Moosem Penobscot Tribal Nation , Headed by John Williams, located in Moncton, NB
Wiskipkpaqtism Off-Reserve Mi'kmaq Bands ,Headed by John Williams, located in Moncton, NB
Yarmouth & District Métis Council ,Member of Confederacy of Nova Scotia Métis, located in Yarmouth, NS
This was John Williams / Gray Wolf's response ; ( I skiped his requoting what is posted above )
http://web.archive.org/web/20051214211848/http://www.nbami.com/NEWSID10.shtml (http://web.archive.org/web/20051214211848/http://www.nbami.com/NEWSID10.shtml)
As you can see, mixed breeds will never be accepted by status Indians unless they can provide financial benefits to them ! (heaven-forbid anyone suggesting that these "status" Indians are themselves mixed breeds!)
Now, as you can see. John Williams, aka Gray Wolf, is being singled out as the greatest demon culture stealer of us all! (That being yours truly!)
Ironically, they don't have a culture to steal! We can out-hunt, out-fish and out-log them all. I know more about Mi'kmaq history and culture than all of them put together, I speak the old mi'kmaq, maliseet and penobsciot trade language better than all of them!
What culture are they talking about ? They don't even know what animal spirits are all about, they borrow rituals from the plains indians, hell! some wear chiefs war-bonnets from the Sioux and Cheyenes of centyral and western United States.
None can supply documentation that proves they are even pre-depotation treaty heirs, we all do in spades, none can link themselves to Wabanaki Confeceracy Chiefs, we all do, hell! They can't even prove they are Indian with genealogy.
Yet, here they are calling "ME" a culture stealer? You can't steal what they don't have! I am not bitter at any of them, and I certainly don't envie them or what they have.
Now ! We have this organization atacking every non-status group it can find because they fear us! They fear that we might expose the truth, the real story, yet, they have nothing to fear, what we have can only help them to find out who they really are, what was stolen from them, and how to get it back.
They will sit down with me before this is all over ! They will listen and they will learn, it is as sure as the sunrise and the rising of the tides comes every day , the question is will their attacks on me cease today, or later, and what opinion will it leave with me.
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So now it seems this Gray wolf / John Williams guy has created his own Wabanaki Confederacy .
http://www.geocities.com/wabenaki2003/about.html (http://www.geocities.com/wabenaki2003/about.html)
The Maritime Wabanaki Confederacy
" A few years ago, some reserve natives created a modern version of the Wabanaki confederacy, but, it has no ties whatsoever to any of the original Wabanaki leaders or chiefs, to the grand chiefs, the treaty signers, even to the deputies who negotiated the treaties prior to 1760.
Because of this lack of creditabilty, the Maritime (meaning eastern Canada & the USA) Wabanaki Confederacy was legally incorporated and a grand council was chosen from actual documented descendants of the original Wabanaki Confederacy grand chiefs and treaty signers.
These hereditery Wabanaki Confederacy Chiefs then chose in the traditional Wabanaki native tradition, Dr. John J. Williams (aka Gray Wolf) as it's Grand Chief.
Gray Wolf
Wabanaki Confederacy
http://www.geocities.com/wabenaki2003/index.html (http://www.geocities.com/wabenaki2003/index.html)
We are all Wabanaki Indians
Maritime Wabanaki Confederacy hereditary Grand Chief Gray Wolf ("Loup Gris" )
Direct descendant of Chiefs Madockawando, Francis Xavier, & Bomaseen
Direct unbroken family ties to 9 peace & friendship treaty signers.
I created or incorporated the Wabanaki Confederacy for all our nations!
Membership in the Maritime Wabanaki Confederacy, Inc. :
1...Must provide legally certified documentation of one's genealogical or other records that proves an unbroken ancestral tie to one or more of the following:
(a)...a documented grand chief of the pre-deportation Wabanaki Confederacy
(b)...a chief, deputy or captain of the original pre-deportation Wabanaki Confederacy.
(c) ...a pre-deportation Wabanaki treaty signer.
(d) ...an ancestor with Indian blood who lived in Acadia during the signing of the pre-deportation treaty signings.
(h)...Anyone that the Wabanaki Grand Council unanimously considers to be an Indian based on other factors.
(i)....Anyone who was issued a "status" card from Indian affairs, or who had ancestors with such cards.
Membership will be reviewed in a case by case basis. Each applicants will be processed fairly and quickly.
There will be no discrimination based on age, sex, racial purity (blood quorums), tribal origins or affiliations, spiritual beliefs, financial condition, etc. Exceptions:
The following will be barred from membership
1...Anyone who belongs to another indian group or association that is considered counter-productive to the aims and
objectives of the Wabanaki Confederacy Grand Council.
2...Anyone who refuses to follow the guidelines or rules established by the Wabanaki Confederacy Grand Council
3...Anyone who engages in practices deemed to be illegal under Canadian law.
4...Anyone who does not accept the Wabanaki Confederacy Grand Council as the sole authority over the issues of pre-deportation Wabenaki treaties and treaty rights for the Wabanaki peoples.
5...Anyone who creates a situation that could be harmful for any member of the Wabanaki Confederacy Grand Council.
http://greywolf93.tripod.com/membershiporganization/id4.html (http://greywolf93.tripod.com/membershiporganization/id4.html)
We are always looking for people interested in joining our organization.
Benefits of Joining
There are several benefits to becoming a member of our organization. Our members are close friends and we have a great time when we get together.
Of course we also have a common interest, and we hope to further our cause.
In addition, you will be able to study the traditional mi'kmaq culture and heritage, including in-depth and authentic involvement in traditional Native American spirituality.
Lastly! There are the hundreds of grants, buseries and loans that we can apply for through or band.
Gray Wolfs webpage mentions the Ontario Metis Aboriginal Association . All I could find on that was this .
http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:4pU4HRZZZh4J:www.abo-peoples.org/Communications/NewsReleases/OMMA%2520release
%2520jan-07.pdf+%22Ontario+metis+Aboriginal+association%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=ca (http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:4pU4HRZZZh4J:www.abo-peoples.org/Communications/NewsReleases/OMMA%2520release
%2520jan-07.pdf+%22Ontario+metis+Aboriginal+association%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=ca)
IMPORTANT INFORMATION FOR THE MEMBERS OF THE ONTARIO METIS ABORIGINAL ASSOCIATION (OMAA)
Ottawa, Ontario, January 19, 2007
On September 5, 2006, the Ontario Metis Aboriginal Association(OMAA) was suspended for failure to comply with the Constitution & By-Laws of the Congress, specifically, the requirement of repaying an outstanding debt of $163,245 to the Congress. On January 18, 2007, the CAP Board of Directors unanimously voted to
terminate the membership of OMAA within the Congress, in accordance with its Constitution & By-Laws
Doing a search on Gray Wolf and Acadian Metis I found this post by him in a genealogical forum ;
http://genforum.genealogy.com/lejeune/messages/342.html (http://genforum.genealogy.com/lejeune/messages/342.html)
Last year, a few hundred Acadians-indians in our group took yDNA tests, only one failed to show indian haplotypes, some of these went back to the Lejeunes, but, the lab put the screws on us and now throws the words " possible", "Probable", "highly likely" and such to the test results, so, we have decided to end this once and for all!
We are currently doing an extensive mDNA and yDNA through a private lab to extablish the indian connections that we know abounds within the acadian population, and it will be published in the medical journals onece completed.
http://genforum.genealogy.com/lejeune/messages/344.html (http://genforum.genealogy.com/lejeune/messages/344.html)
In my reasearch, and I have done extensive research, I found that the first to settle in Acadia were the Algonquins, followed by the Basques, the Scotch, then the French, the German, Swiss, British, and other Europeans, but for the first 200 years, there were but a dozen women from France to settle here, yet, there were countless births, so, unless aliens arrived here,
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yDNA comes from the male line only , so it is not possible the yDNA of almost all Acadians would show Indian halpotypes unless the French who arived were all women who had babies with Native men .
As far as I can tell from other on line information , the statements that only a dozen women came from France are also not true .
I know next to nothing about Acadian genealogy , and I may be wrong , but as far as I can tell all the evidence is that the large majority of Acadian women were French .
http://www.acadian-home.org/frames.html (http://www.acadian-home.org/frames.html)
http://www.acadian-home.org/mothers.html (http://www.acadian-home.org/mothers.html)
http://www.acadian-home.org/origins-mtdna.html (http://www.acadian-home.org/origins-mtdna.html)
There was some documented intermarriage .
http://www.acadian-home.org/frames.html (http://www.acadian-home.org/frames.html)
As far as I can tell the few mixed blood children of these unions , were absorbed into either the French , or Indian communities. .
Reading through this conversation on the genform trying to figure out who is telling the truth , I found a heated arguement with someone claiming to be the Chief of the BRAS D’OR INDIANS
The community descended from these people may or may not be Indian , but as far as I can tell their claim to be a First Nation is based on a lot of very questionable iinformation . Some of it appears to be completely incorrect .
http://genforum.genealogy.com/cgi-bin/pageload.cgi?DNA::lejeune::741.html (http://genforum.genealogy.com/cgi-bin/pageload.cgi?DNA::lejeune::741.html)
Posted by: Eric Burton Date: May 16, 2006 at 12:29:58
THE BRAS D’OR INDIANS – LEJEUNE/YOUNG – CAPE BRETON
Some maternal lines of interest whose origins can be proven definitely through DNA testing
are:
Anne Marie & Réné Rimbault
( According to recent mtDNA results listed in above link , YES )
Édmée Lejeune and François Gautrot
( According to recent mtDNA NO )
Catherine Lejeune & François Savoie
( According to recent mtDNA NO )
Unknown & Germain Doucet
( According to recent mtDNA NO )
Unknown & Jean Gaudet
According to recent mtDNA Maybe ( X can be European or Amerindian )
Radegonde Lambert & Jean Blanchard
According to recent mtDNA NO
Catherine Bugaret & Clause Petitpas
According to recent mtDNA NO, though one of their sons did marry a M'kmaq woman
I checked the webpage for the Bras D'or Indians . It is here .
http://www.brasdorfirstnation.com/Oral_History.php (http://www.brasdorfirstnation.com/Oral_History.php)
This Chief Eric Burton appers to be the same person as the guy Erich Burton who is administrating the Acadian DNA project below .
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/AcadianAmerIndian/ (http://www.familytreedna.com/public/AcadianAmerIndian/)
AMERINDIAN Ancestry Out of Acadia DNA PROJECT
Group Administrator: Erich Burton
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/AcadianAmerIndian/
A secondary goal of the AmerIndian Ancestry Project is in relation to the Bras d’Or Indian families.
Bras d'Or First Nation Community
The first four families above were all found in the 1708 Indian census.
A Bras d’Or Indian traces their family back to one of the families mentioned above who either already resided in Cape Breton before 1748 or moved to Cape Breton in the 1748-1750 period. (con..)
Historically the Bras d’Or Indian families married into other Bras d’Or Indian families. That is not to say Bras d’Or Indians didn’t marry a Scottish or Irish immigrant, because there were such marriages, but the children that resulted from those families would marry into other Bras d’Or Indian families.
The conversation in the genforum between Acadian genealogists and these Acadian Indians is interesting to read through . Lots of people said they felt considering such thin blooded descendants Indians was doing more wrong to the real Indians , but some seem to have gotten some sort of status for what sounds like an extremely minute amount of native blood and now with mtDNA it turns out even that did not exist .
http://genforum.genealogy.com/lejeune/messages/742.html (http://genforum.genealogy.com/lejeune/messages/742.html)
We have spoken before...I have my Indian card bacause of Francoie Savoie and Catherine Lejeune..
maria
mtDNA research has shown that Catherine Lejeune who married Francoise Savoi in the 1600's has European mtDNA . Even if this was true , could people get an "Indian card" , on that basis ?
Are there Acadian Metis ?
Would a few intermarriages with Indians in the 1600's mean people are a First Nation ? A person born in 1675 would be about the 9 X Greatgrandparent of someone born in 1950 . To put this another way a person born in 1950 would inherent 1/ 2048 of there genetic inheritance from an ancestor born in 1675 . Even if someone could track their family back to twenty 9 X Great grandmas who were Indian that descendant would still be more than 99% European .
The way these webpages are worded , it sounds like these folks accept members as Indians , if they have even one ancestor back in the 1600's that was an Indian .
If this was true , and so many people who are almost entirely non native were recognized as being Indian , what would this do to the recognition and rights of Canadas First Nations ?
Maybe I am just not understanding something , but these groups do raise some questions .
Does anyone know who these folks are ?
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There was another thread mentioning this warning awhile back. I believe someone had some questions about an alleged shaman in Maine who claimed to be part of one of the groups in the warning.
I remember trying to do searches on most of the groups in the warning and finding in most cases these seemed to be heritage groups, but mostly not intending to do harm.
My understanding of Metis culture (as an outsider) is that the Metis generally lived apart from both whites and recognized status NDNs. This is how the Metis culture was created. Those mixedbloods who managed to "pass" among either status NDNs or whites for several centuries by definition wouldn't be considered Metis. They and their ancestors didn't grow up in the culture. BQ doesn't play a part as far as I know.
But anyone knowing different, go ahead and correct me.
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Tansi;
I had run into this individual, some time ago, on a Metis(?) forum.
While I belong to the Metis Nation Saskatchewan, which is part of the Metis National Council, I am not aware of any Metis organizations that meet the membership criteria of the MNC, from the East coast.
While many Metis people, myself included, can trace their lineage back to some Acadian roots, those Acadian mixed bloods moved West with the fur trade and became part of the Metis Culture, which has developed over the centuries. Those who came with the fur trade continued to intermarry with other Aboriginal people and lived the Culture that developed.
I cannot make judgement about them, but they would not likely fit in with our Western Metis people.
Ric
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Maybe some of those groups in that list are just heritage groups , but Gray Wolf / John Williams / Wiskipkpaqtism and the Confederacy of Nova Scotia Métis , sound like they are very interested in what treaty rights and resources they might be entitled to . The Bras D'Or Indians call themselves a First Nation.
It's a lot to read through , but in John Williams own words, he is after whatever belongs to Aboriginal people , and he says he has been seen as a threat by the people who live on reserve .
http://web.archive.org/web/20051214214428/www.nbami.com/news_table_of_contents.shtml (http://web.archive.org/web/20051214214428/www.nbami.com/news_table_of_contents.shtml)
#24 Important News Update: HUNTING & FISHING REQUESTS
BY: Wiskipkpaqtism ( AKA Gray WOlf)
Gray Wolf
Our band has been flooded by hundreds of inquiries from our members who are itching to go hunting, fishing and logging, they are ready to go to court, they have the money for lawyers, all they want is our permission, and they will be out there is numbers.
I can understand their desires to access what is rightfully theirs, and I know that they are sincere about being responsible, but, I urge everyone to be patient, give us time to see exactly what our platform will yield, if we can work with the government, then in time, we will not have to go through the court process every time we try to access our rights, if not, then I will personally lead them wherever they want to go with this.
We have rights both as Off-Reserve and as Metis, I know how to access these rights under both these classifications, (probably the only one who knows how to access Metis rights in this province) but, I want to give the government the chance to deal with us as equals first, if they try to jerk us around as they have been doing for the last 10-years, we have another plan ready to follow, we certainly are not going to wait another 10 years to reach a solution.
I can promise you that in 2004, we will be out there accessing our rights! We will do so with or without the support of the government, and we will do so openly and upfront.
#28. Fears unfounded
Wiskipkpaqtism
Gray Wolf
It has come to my attention that there is a great fear among the status Indians that I might eventually testify as an expert witness for the crown against them in their court cases.
The question one should ask is " Why are they so afraid ?" . Is it because our nation is the only Indian band in Atlantic Canada made up exclusively of descendants of actual treaty signers?
Maybe it is because our grand council is composed solely of actual descendants of both known treaty signers as well as documented grand chiefs of the original Wabanaki confederacy?
Maybe it is because for 10 years none ever give us any type of support! Maybe it is because some of their people attacked us from day one, accusing us of being wannabes, liars, frauds, and culture stealers. Maybe it is because we are the only French speaking Indians in the Atlantic provinces.
(my bold )
# 29 Part. 1 Court decides on native logging case [WITH COMMENT FROM GRAY WOLF]; By: CBC
FREDERICTON ? New Brunswick's Court of Queen's Bench ruled Monday that members of First Nations communities in New Brunswick can cut trees on Crown land for their personal use. (con..)
Gray Wolf
This is great news for our group ! It means that after December, we will have the right to log throughout N.B. wherever and whenever we want, that is, if we win, which is highly likely.Of course! We then have to establish ourselves in N.S. to set up operations there and extend our territory, followed by PEI and then Maine, it is all part of our plan.
# 38. Reflections; By: Wiskipkpaqtism
Gray Wolf
I can understand the mentality of those who have attacked us from the start, after-all! We came out of he blue and suddenly we went native, their reasoning was "where were they when we were suffering?" I can understand them not wanting us to get a share of what they have, again! They feel they did all the fighting, why share the spoils of war with non-combatants! I have no problem with their arguments, and I respect their rights to them, and their right to fight us tooth and nail to defend their views that we are not native. Again! It is their right. Their right as natives, and their rights as human beings, we are the outsiders in their mind, and they want to make sure we remain just that! On the other hand, we are not going to roll-over and play dead to make their task any easier, it is our right to contest the same things they consider as theirs.
(my bold)
# 40 Message to all Acadian Metis Indians; By: Wiskipkpaqtism
I find it very disturbing that the domesticated (status) Mi'kmaqs have joined forces with the "brainwashed" French Acadians to implement a government plan to bury all the traces of the true Acadian and Indian culture, to the tune of 100-million dollars or more.
There French "spin-doctor" groups are selling a history that never happened! It is all a big fabrication used to steal treaty rights that are worth over 1-billion dollars which many FRENCH ACADIANS, not RESERVE INDIANS, are legally entitled to.
(my bold)
The CNSM also sounds like it feels it's members should be entitled to whatever belongs to Aboriginal people.
Confederacy of Nova Scotia Métis- Application Info
www.geocities.com/nsmetis/member.html (http://www.geocities.com/nsmetis/member.html)
Membership is open to all Métis individuals, who either reside in Nova Scotia or whose families originated in Nova Scotia. A Métis person is:
a) a person of mixed Native and non-Native heritage (Native being Native American);
b) a person who self-identifies as Métis; and
c) who is accepted by a Métis Community as being Métis.
All three criteria must be met, as well as proof of Native heritage being provided upon application. There is NO blood-quantum requirement. We do not see ourselves as simply being a percentage of our Native heritage, but as being 100% Métis and nothing else. ( my bold)
Our members come from all walks of life and heritage. Most are Indigenous Métis, whose Native heritage is Mi'kmaq, while others are western Métis whose Native heritage may be Cree, Ojibwa, Blackfoot, Sioux or any other What is the Certificate of Aboriginal Status Issued By the CNSM?
First and foremost, it is a membership card signifying that you are a member of the Confederacy of Nova Scotia Métis and our National Affiliate, the Canadian Métis Council.
CNSM represents and responds to the political, social, cultural and economic interests of Nova Scotia's Métis People.
It is an identification card - signifying that you are a person of Aboriginal ancestry and recognized under the Canada Constitution Act, 1982 as such, and therefore have all the rights, opportunities and privileges accorded to Aboriginal people. This card system is similar to the way "Status" Indians are registered with the Government of Canada through Indian Affairs and receive a "Certificate of Indin Status" card with an identification number.
Used as an identification card for purposes including, but not limited to, the following:
Harvesting rights (hunting, fishing, trapping, gathering)(still negotiating)
Employment (eg. Some employers ask for proof of Aboriginal ancestry in order for person to participate in an employment equity program)
Education (eg. Some institutions ask for proof of Aboriginal ancestry in order for a person to access
Aboriginal-specific bursaries, scholarships, programs)
Procurement (eg. A certain portion of Governments Services contracts are set aside specifically for Aboriginal people/companies and also require proof of Aboriginal ancestry
http://web.archive.org/web/20051214204943/www.nbami.com/NEWSID30.shtml (http://web.archive.org/web/20051214204943/www.nbami.com/NEWSID30.shtml)
More people claiming Metis Status in NS
CBC
HALIFAX - The list of people claiming to be Metis in the Maritimes is growing as a result of a Supreme Court decision.
The ruling, known as the Powley case, recognized a group in Ontario as Metis and gave its members the same hunting and fishing rights as native people.
Now people claiming to be Metis in the Maritimes want the same benefits.
(con..)
Many First Nations groups are not keen on the Metis claims either.
Tony Cunningham, who calls himself a Metis from Nova Scotia, disagrees but says he understands the natives' position.
"I can answer this way: If you had a gold mine you wouldn't me to be panning for gold on the weekends in your gold mine," he says.
http://web.archive.org/web/20051214204704/www.nbami.com/NEWSID31.shtml (http://web.archive.org/web/20051214204704/www.nbami.com/NEWSID31.shtml)
CBC
Ron Surette, the speaker for the Confederacy of Nova Scotia Metis, has been fighting to get his members recognized as Metis for several years. He says he makes it clear when anyone in his organization sells a Metis card that it's for identification only.
"Probably some day we'll have some rights. Right now we have no rights at all," says Surette.
I only have a very limited understanding of this , but , if these people ever got what they want , it seems this would be really tilted towards disolving what makes First Nations distinct from general Canadian society . None of these groups claiming a right to Aboriginal property seem to have any blood quantum . If they got what they want , it seems like a large number of non native people who's families have been here for centuries would have " Aboriginal title" because of some 9 X Great grandmother, while Canadas First Nations people have their childrens right to Aboriginal title cut off after two generations of out marriage . How can these mixed blood groups imagine they have indefinent entitlment to anything - when First Nations people haven't even got that themselves ? Maybe I am not understanding something but as an outsider looking at the surface , it seems a more than a bit unfair and unrealistic .
It would be interesting to hear what the Mi'kmaq people think about these Metis Indian groups .
PODIAs declaring themselves a tribe and the problems these groups create , are often discussed in NAFPS .
Is there some difference in the political or social structure, of the Native or non native communities , in the US and Canada, that makes PODIAs with a sense of entitlement a problem in the US but not in Canada ?
If so , that would be interesting , because maybe we could learn something from the area where this is not a problem .
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In doing a search on Acadian Metis I stumbled on this ;
Seems like John Williams has been questioned in respect to some of his other claims .
http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:RB2sVsAzb_0J:www.planetjitsu.com/viewtopic.php%3Fp%3D88
293+%22Acadian+metis%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=80&gl=ca (http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:RB2sVsAzb_0J:www.planetjitsu.com/viewtopic.php%3Fp%3D88
293+%22Acadian+metis%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=80&gl=ca)
Dr. John J. Williams,( Doctorate of Divinity)
Legally Ordained Baptist Minister
Founder Logitarian Christianity
High Priest of the Interi Shinto Sect.
Inheritor of Saigo Ha Takeda Ryu ( Daito-Ryu )
9th dan - Daito-Ryu
10th Dan Shito-Ryu Karate Do
10th Dan Shinto-Ryu Aiki Bujutsu
7th Dan Kuniba Ha Shito-Ryu Karate Do (FAJKO)
3rd Dan Kodokan Judo
Member World Head Founders Council
Inducted World Head founders Council Hall Of Fame
World Record Holder for breaking untreated ice with bare knuckle punch
Judo, Karate and Kickboxing Champion
Canadan Weighlifting Record Holder
Began martial arts training in 1947
Golden Gloves Boxer
Former Police Officer
Certified Police Instructor
Founder Nation Of Acadian Metis ( Indian Movement )
Native American Activist
Eastern Woodland Indian
(my bold - this is the same guy .... )
Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:10 pm
I have never met this Christian minister/Shinto Priest/Daito-Ryu Master.
From checking out his website and what has been happening on the various Martial arts forums, I don't think I want to.
The webpage above links here
http://www.swordforumbugei.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2059&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc
&highlight=&sid=e25a8c6c1d84f0f9db8207444141ba9e
(http://www.swordforumbugei.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2059&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc
&highlight=&sid=e25a8c6c1d84f0f9db8207444141ba9e)
Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 2:29 pm
Toby Threadgill
What an interesting tale your post tells. I was frankly shocked by the absurdity of the information on their website but I guess I shouldn't have been. You see I've actually met Mr John Williams. (con..)
I won't repost the story told about John Williams , as I can't know if it is true , but it is interesting reading and sounds similar to his claiming to be more Indian than the Indians ...
Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 9:41 am
Toby Threadgill
Humm....
I've been pondering Mr Williams.....
Reading the various protestations Mr Williams has placed on various discussion boards leave a very odd picture of the man. But lets leave that alone and focus on the historical claims presented on his website.
He places all this dubious historical info on his website. When confronted with conflicting accounts of his version of history (provided by people with access to historical documentation) he explains it away as his teacher possibly lying to him. Interesting. Does he remove the dubious historical info from his site? No. He instead says for others to provide hard evidence to prove him wrong and only then will he retract his info.
Firstly, who's he trying to fool here? It's not up to us to provide evidence to counter his claims. He put up the website. It is his responsibility to back up his claims with verifiable proof. He provides none concerning Saigo ha Daito ryu!
Secondly, just what constitutes hard evidence in this guys mind?
Unfortunantly the guy doesn't look like he is just prone to making harmless exaggerated claims ... I also found this ;
http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:gAl9srdidvQJ:www.cbc.ca/news/story/1999/11/24/nb_guenard_metis_991123.
html+Acadian+metis&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=12&gl=ca (http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:gAl9srdidvQJ:www.cbc.ca/news/story/1999/11/24/nb_guenard_metis_991123.
html+Acadian+metis&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=12&gl=ca)
Resources minister worried about violence
Last Updated: Wednesday, November 24, 1999 | 8:26 AM ET
CBC News
The Natural Resources Minister has pulled his rangers out of the woods in the northwest near Saint Quentin out of fears for their safety. The minister says a group calling themselves Acadian Metis have started an illegal logging operation and he's worried there could be violence.
A group of Acadian Metis says it's exercising its treaty right to cut wood on Crown land. Metis are not recognized as status Indians under the Indian Act and many natives living on reserves don't seem to want to recognize them either.
The Metis are not the status Indians who've been challenging the Marshall decision in the woods, in the courts and in the media. The Metis have some Indian ancestry but not enough to qualify as a First Nations people under the Indian Act.
Brian Hoffman, a Tobique warrior says: "If you're a native in here as far as we're concerned you're a native."
Hoffman is also a status Indian but, he says native blood entitles the Metis to rights under the old treaties even if that blood comes from several generations back.
Chief Second Peter Barlow disagrees. Barlow says a splash of native blood in your family tree doesn't make you a full-status Indian. "They haven't asked me as the President of the Union of New Brunswick Indians to try to establish what rights, if any, they do have," he says.
Meanwhile, Natural Resources Minister Jeannot Volpe says the province is holding firm to the position it's held all along.
"What they're doing now is illegal and it'll have to be addressed," Volpe said.
If there's one thing the government and the chiefs can agree on it's that the Metis are new and unwanted players in delicate treaty negotiations. The chiefs will try to convince the government there are so few natives in the province that they will have very little impact on natural resources. The government believes there are already too many native interests at the bargaining table.
Sounds like this Acadian Metis group is managing to confuse recognition of Aboriginal title in their area .
If there are some pockets of people, who through continued intermarriage in a small isolated community , might be considered Acadian Metis , ( such as the so called Bras D'or Indians may ? be ) I am not sure this guy is doing them any favour, by claiming to represent them ....
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Kwe,
I find it very interesting that people think they know who my ancestors were. I am a brasdorindian. I decsend from Phillipe d'Azy Mius of Cape Sable and many other proud native lines. I live in Little Bras d'Or, Cape Breton this was an old indian village. My lejeune/Young ancestors lost all rights because indians were not allowed to own land. My ancestor Francois Lejeune/Young was also forced to have land grant drawen up in English version Francis Young. In those days to survive. For all those who say the brasdorindians are not native decsentants do not know the facts or the histoy. No one!! be him Chief or be him the Pope is not going to keep me or my family from my ancestors or the rights that they were denied by the English government of the RC Church. We lived with our hidden history for long enough, no more. Erich Burton is no longer our selfelected Chief. People like him only want to cash in on our rights.
everyone is just going to have to except this truth.
Wela'lin
Nancy Swan
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Hello Nancy,
I think you'll find that in the end people here are more on your side than you realize. The comments about "so-called" Bras D'or Indians and others are the results of those you've obviously seen through as well. Those that just want to cash in on being Indian. You seem to have a good hold on your own ancestry and the story of your community. It's the individuals that jump up and declare themselves Chief of a people they know nothing about that have sullied your ancestors. Many of the Acadian Metis groups that have popped up and disappeared over and over again are guilty of this and it's those individuals who should be ashamed and who this board looks down upon. John Williams is the name that pops up as having tried to cash in on this the most, but fortunately his true story is out now and he has disappeared into obscurity. That's the point of outing people like that and it's sad indeed that their names get associated with the true descendants who've always maintained their identity even when it was a bad idea to do so. The downfall of Erich Burton is another example.
It's truly ok for you to educate others here. Get your real story out so that those that wish to be Indian only because they think it's a ticket to free land and no taxes get washed away under the truth.
Superdog
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Hi Nancy
The fact that Phillipe d'Azy Mius of Cape Sable had his children with a Mi'kmaq wife back in the late 1600's is well documented and backed up by mtDNA . Nobody is disputing that ! :)
Generally speaking this message board doesn't spend a lot of time worrying about individual genealogies , it is more the bigger issues of what individuals do with these genealogies and the impact this can have on public recognition of and respect for continuously existing tribal governments and First Nations.
A good thread to read if you are interested in debates of some of the broader issues would be
http://newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1871.0
In reply #7 of that thread there is also some links to related discussions.
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:o I see all this stuff about them wanting recognition so they can 'hunt and fish and LOG because it's worth millions? That is so scary! The loggers have already devastated the area! My family is from Calais but I haven't been back there since 1985 - back then it was terrible how they just cut the forests down like they are farm crops! New Brunswick was trashed when I was there - same as the terrible logging going on in British Columbia.
Hey Nancy... The Bras d'Or is beautiful place.... :)
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i can tell you exactly what effect these fraudulent metis associations have had on Mi'kmaw communities. There are many of these acadian metis with membership cards that were photocopied from the Status Card the Feds issued, and what happens it that now in Port Hawksbury the are 2 major retailers who no longer allow status cards to be used to take advantage of the No Tax rights on merchandise, such a right we fought long and hard to maintain with non-native vendors or off reserve dept stores. And i know of the committee who struck the list mentioned personally. They are very real and the current holder of the Wapana'ki Confederacy Bundle lives on the St Mary's First Nation in Fredericton, N.B.
We have also fought hard and long for the two National Aboriginal Caucus associations, the Native Council of Nova Scotia and the Native Council of New Brunswick. i suggest very strongly that Ms Swan and the Bras D'or Lakes metis to join such a council. because in the Tri-Partite negotiations involving Treaty Beneficiaries and the rights they have with the Feds and the Province; the Native Council of NS and NB are the only metis organizations that are sitting at the negotiation tables in the Maritimes and they are already serving the people very well.
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There was another thread mentioning this warning awhile back. I believe someone had some questions about an alleged shaman in Maine who claimed to be part of one of the groups in the warning.
I remember trying to do searches on most of the groups in the warning and finding in most cases these seemed to be heritage groups, but mostly not intending to do harm.
My understanding of Metis culture (as an outsider) is that the Metis generally lived apart from both whites and recognized status NDNs. This is how the Metis culture was created. Those mixedbloods who managed to "pass" among either status NDNs or whites for several centuries by definition wouldn't be considered Metis. They and their ancestors didn't grow up in the culture. BQ doesn't play a part as far as I know.
The fact is that the French intermarried with Cree and Ojibwe women much like Spanish married Indian women. This was encouraged by the regime ancienne (French) but discouraged by the Hudson Bay Company after the fall of Quebec. The Metis are a distinct culture and language based on French and Cree. Being a PODIA is not the same as being Metis, most of the people who claim to be Metis are not.
But anyone knowing different, go ahead and correct me.
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Hi Apukjij and welcome!
Apukjij
And i know of the committee who struck the list mentioned personally. They are very real and the current holder of the Wapana'ki Confederacy Bundle lives on the St Mary's First Nation in Fredericton, N.B.
If I understand you correctly, you sound like you are reffering to the list of bogus native groups published by the Wabanaki Confederacy?
A number of the groups mentioned on the list as being a problem, are branches of the Confederacy of Nova Scotia Métis.
I have a question about that , and maybe you could explain what is going on with this ...
Below is a link to the offficial Governement of Canada's webpage where they link to information on obtaining a Metis card.
http://www.ainc-inac.gc.ca/br/is/index-eng.asp
Indian Status
Recognition by the federal government of persons registered under the Indian Act is referred to as Registered Indian Status. Status Indians are entitled to a wide range of programs and services offered by federal agencies, provincial governments and the private sector.
You may also be interested in:
* McIvor: Amendments to Registration Provisions of the Indian Act
* Métis Card
* Band Employee Benefits
* Inuit Beneficiary
* Searching for Your Ancestor?
* First Nations Statistics
* Aboriginal Canada Portal
* Benefits Information, Non-Insured Health Benefits, First Nations and Inuit Health, Health Canada
* Status Indians, Aboriginal Peoples, Canada Revenue Agency
* You Wanted to Know – Most Frequently Asked Questions
(my bold)
The link on obtaining a Metis card goes to the webpage linked to below . There is a list of provinces and for Nova Scotia, it links to Confederacy of Nova Scotia Métis
http://www.aboriginalcanada.gc.ca/acp/site.nsf/en-frames/ao35055.html
The Confederacy of Nova Scotia Métis was created and exists to foster, promote and preserve the Métis identity and heritage.
The link that is on the government of canada's website to the Confederacy of Nova Scotia Métis is below...
http://geocities.com/nsmetis/
In the link above to the Confederacy of Nova Scotia Métis is a link to membership information.
http://geocities.com/nsmetis/member.html
I think I already posted this above , but it sounds like this organization includes anyone of any Native descent , no matter where they are from or how far back their ancestry is.
Membership Information
Membership is open to all Métis individuals who reside in Nova Scotia or whose family originated in Nova Scotia. A Métis person is:
a person of mixed Native-American and non-Native-American heritage;
a person who self-identifies as Métis; and
accepted by a Métis community as being Métis
All three criteria must be met as well as providing proof of Native-American heritage upon applying for membership. There is NO blood quantum requirement. We do not see ourselves as simply being a percentage of our Native-American heritage, but as being 100% Métis and nothing else.
(continues)
Our members come from all walks of life and heritage. Most are indigenous Métis of Mi'kmaw and Wampanoag heritage. Others are western Métis whose heritage may be Cree, Ojibwa, Blackfoot, Sioux, or others. Our commonalities are our inability to walk comfortably in the everyday worlds of either side of our heritage, and our wish to simply be who we are - Métis.
Else where in NAFPS , it gets explained over and over that the government recognized Metis in canada are a specific group of people and ARE NOT just any group of people of some Native descent who get together and decide they are Metis.
In yet here is a government of canada webpage which seeems to recognize a group of Metis which is just a group of people of distant decent from various tribes getting together to try and get access to resources in traditional Mik'maq territory.... ?
Why would someone of Blackfoot descent expect to have fishing and hunting rights in Nova Scotia ?
How do the Mi'kmaq feel about this? Is there a range of opinions or one opinion that is most common?
Does the Wabanaki confederacy still feel the Confederacy of Nova Scotia Métis is a problem ?
Is the canadian governement aiding and abbetting this problem by seeming to recognize this groups claims as legit?
There is an organization in canada called the Congress of Aboriginal People which is funded by the government of canada, and from some of what i read about this , it seemed like the government of canada may be intentionly recognizing and funding organizations which represent people with very distant native descent, so they can justify removing funding from Canadian First Nations communities. After seeing that, I don't assume that just because this Metis group is mentioned on the government canada's website , that means it is legit.
And if this group is legit , wouldn't any group of people of distant Indian ancestry who get together claiming to be Metis, be just as justified in making this claim ?
How would that, as a general principal, effect the soverienty of continuously existing tribal Nations ?
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Hi Nighthawk...
In reference to your comments below...
There were no French from France women traipsing around in the bush hunting caribou or even pigeons with small children and infants in tow, they wouldn't have survived or known how to survive.
Anyone who had ancestors living in the Maritimes prior to 1763 is a descendant of Indigenous peoples and is Indigenous themselves.
It seems these "facts" are the basis for a lot of your other beliefs.
However, I have done more research since when I first started this thread, and i don't think these are facts at all.
From all the evidence i have seen , the large majority of Acadian settlers who left descentents in the Acadian community were French men with French wives ...
IMO , the information in the links below is basically correct.
http://www.acadian-home.org/acadian-origins.html
On the level of racial origins, there is a source which provides a considerable amount of information. This is a series of fifty eight despositions of the heads of Acadian families that were taken down on Belle-Isle-en-mer between Feb 15 and March 12, 1767
(continues with very detailed oral testimonies about Acadian family origins, that were given in 1767 ...)
According to these testimonies, the large majority of the first Acadian settlers had French wives. This conclusion is supported by many old records and recent mtDNA findings.
In the link below is the mtDNA results for many of the women who have long been rumoured to have been Native. In the 33 distant female ancestors investigated through mtDNa, only 6 turned out to be of Native descent.
http://www.acadian-home.org/origins-mtdna.html
As these investigations seem to be focusing on women who were not proven to be French in other records , I think thes mtDNA tests probably found more matrilineal lines that went to a native ancestor , than would be found in the average Acadian with many ancestors who were well documented as originating in France.
The link below has long lists of patrilineal and matrilineal DNA results for people of French Canadian / Acadian descent.
The website seems a bit difficult to access at the moment, but I went over it a few months back, and it shows a long list of results of mtDNA and Y DNA tests done on people who's French ancestors were the first non native residents of Quebec or Acadia.
Almost all the patrilineal lines of people tested were French and only one in 20 of the matrilineal lines of the people tested had origins on this continent.
http://www.frenchdna.org/ENG-results.htm
People with distant Native ancestry probably get DNA tests more frequently than people who know their matrilineal line is proven to be French - so if we assume this one in 20 is an avaerage within the french canadin population that is probably higher than the real average, but this would probaly reflect the average French Canadain being about 1/40 or 2% indigenous descent ....
While the family biographies of the first settlers in Quebec below doesn't cite sources, I did go over some of the details a while ago and found most of the claims to be reasonably accurate .
http://www.geocities.com/weallcamefromsomewhere/quebec_realfirst.html
There was a lot of men who came from France without wives, however, for the most part, if these men found wives amoungst the indigenous peoples it would appear that is where their children remained.
And there is probably a reason for this...
In the 1600's , the majority of Acadian / French Canadian families with 2 French parents had large families on average of about 8 children.
When the woman is known to have been Native, it seems French men rarely managed to father more than one child with their Native partner, before she died. Perhaps in the early years of the first French settlements, the Native women and possibly their children were very vulnerable to the diseases carried by the French.
If these childrens mothers did not survive, it seems likely they would have usually been raised by the mothers relatives and grown up as members of a Native community.
Metis (with an acute accent on the "e" which I can't do on this keyboard) is from a french word meaning "half" shorthand for "half-breed".
So why would that also apply to someone who is very slightly mixed from way way back ?
Unless there is strong support from the federally recognized First Nations in the area, I don't think a population that is 98% French on average should have a right to declare themselves "Metis" - as meaning an indigenous person with rights to the resources which belong to indigenous peoples .
No one cares about "percentages" and didn't for hundreds of years,
I guess because realistically , except in a couple isolated French settlements , there wasn't much in the way of percentages to care about...
Why would anyone care if someone wants to self-identify as being a bi-racial or tri-racial descendant anyway?
I agrees if people put a disporportionate emphasis on some aspect of their families background, or have fanciful ideas about one of their ancestors, and they don't make this part of the public dialog, it doesn't really matter to the public. I guess it might be annoying if you had to spend time listening to a bunch of thouroghly disproven ideas .... But it isn't really a problem that would affect much besides peoples immediate friends and family. But this does become a problem when people begin publishing fictious historical or genealogical information , or they publish unlikely specualtion about some families native ancestry, and this is stated as a fact - and it isn't a fact at all....
It becomes even more of a problem when people encourage people with extremely small and distant amounts of Native descent to claim their "soverinty" and identity as Native people. It seems even more disrespectful when this alleged Native ancestry is nothing but speculation or is completely fictious.
To use this word " Metis" with all it's implied political meanings and property rights and apply this to people who are almost entirely non native ( or maybe not native even at all ) seems dishonest , exploitive and disrespectful....
IMO , when distant descendents make these claims to be Metis it probably serves to trivialize and confuse public perception of the REAL soverienty and REAL rights of REAL indigenous peoples and their governing bodies. I think this does create problems.
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hi moma p, your questions touch on some core issues. before bill c-31 was enacted into law, native woman who married white men, lost their status, (my moms status card was cut in half in front of her eyes) so for many generations of whats was officially called Non-Status Indians. even tho i lived on the rez in the summers since i was a child, i was considered a non-status Indian. then the law was changed and it gave the native women back their status that they lost when they married white men. and it gave the children of those marriages a new status designation, so now i have status but here in Eskasoni, they chief and council got together and decided they did not want nothing to do with these newly statused Indians and they enacted legislation to deny bill c-31 Indians voting and housing rights. i don't have a voice in the elections and when my mom dies i will loose the house.
before bill-c31 the non-status Indians were in the gray area of law and disenfranchised from an treaty rights, at the same time the Metis Nation out west began organizing and becoming politically powerful. soon the Metis were accepted at the negotiating at the federal and provincial levels. there were of course some controversies as some peoples said the Metis didn't deserve status and that the half-breed children shouldn't be entitled to status, and then the first nations in the maritimes started denying members benefits if they moved off-reserve. so urban Indians started organizations and they forged alliances with the Metis as well. these organizations fought tooth and nail to gain legitimacy. now we have organizations in the maritimes part of the Congress of Aboriginal People, the Native Council of NB, NS and NFLD accept members who are either off-reserve full status; Metis; are 50 %bq bill c-31's; 1\4 bloods and PODIAS, and these are the only organizations that are the negotiating table in the marititmes with the feds and the province, they can help with funding for school, job and trainings, and they have fishings fleets for people to work in. Moma P the organization you mentioned is not currently part of the negotiators here in the maritimes so they wouldn't be entitled to the fishery and hunting privileges. as the list states there are many acadian-metis-mi'kmaq alliances all who have no privelidges and no voice or say in treaty negotiations.
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Gee Nighthawk, how am I ever supposed to find the time to go over the huge volume of misinformation / out of context facts you have posted in this thread to try and point out why I think the history and genealogy you are posting is largely a work of fiction with a few facts in there to prop it up... ?
By the sheer volume of your posts in this thread , you seem absolutely determined to divert the discussion from what happens when people of very distant indian ancestry are considered to be the rightful owners of indigenous identities and resources .
Providing well documented rebuttals to your many incorrrect historical facts would literally take years of research ...
Other people have already spent many years doing this ...
The links i posted - especially this one -
http://www.acadian-home.org/frames.html
provide a good summery of that research, and also make a point to acknowledge the relatively few instances of intermarriage that are known to have occured. Your claim that the Acadian genealogists who point to mostly French origins are hiding their Native descent is refuted by the many pages on this website , dedicated to acknowledging the Acadians who were of mixed blood descent.
There is some things that aren't known, but guessing about this gets into creating speculative stories based on circumstantial evidence. The stories which are most likely to be true are the ones that are based on the most evidence.
From what I have seen, it is the people who are claiming a large amount of Native ancestry in the Acadian/ Quebec population who are carefully selecting only the facts that suit them, while completely ignoring or irrationalizing away the evidence which does not support the story they want to believe. It seems to me it is the people who are claimimng the Acadians are metis who are exaggerating or in denial and who are guilty of denying the large majority of their real heritage. Which , considering all the evidnece is French - NOT the other way around as you claim...
I will try and pick out some of your main points and show why i think you are publishing a lot of misinformation, but there is so much here it will take me a while to get this together.
Meanwhile the link below , which teaches critical thinking applied to history may help people sort through some of this on their own..
http://www.accd.edu/sac/history/keller/ACCDitg/SSCT.htm
APPLYING CRITICAL THINKING TO AMERICAN HISTORY
FACT, OPINION AND INFERENCE
Being able to distinguish between a statement of fact, an opinion or an inference is an important skill to critical thinking. It involves knowing what can be proven directly, what is a legitimate implication derived from the facts, and what is fair to conclude from the historical record.
Historians typically interweave statements of fact, inferences they derive from the facts, and statements of their own opinion into a seamless historical narrative. Critical thinkers must be able to distinguish among these three types of communication.
* FACT: reports information that can be directly observed or can be verified or checked for accuracy.
* OPINION: expresses an evaluation based on a personal judgment or belief which may or may not be verifiable.
* INFERENCE: a logical conclusion or a legitimate implication based on factual information.
Generally, facts are constants in historical study. But a compendium of facts is inevitably incomplete and deathly dull to read. Historians construct history by closing the gaps in their knowledge about the past, enlarge our under- standing, and enliven their narrative by drawing logical inferences from their assembled facts. Often, they then use their expertise to arrive at a considered judgment about the wisdom or significance of past decisions and events.
Distinguishing statements of fact, opinion, and inference may at first seem difficult to do. That is because they are often closely interwoven. Develop your own critical thinking abilities by placing an "F" before each factual statement, an "O" before each opinion, and an "I" before each inference in the practice exercise below.
(continues...)
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Hi Apukjij
Hearing your personal situation was really helpful in understanding how the candain government has set up a situation where an organization like CAP has come to have some power ...
Obviously there is many Native people who need representation and who aren't getting it.
But one of the things that has made me suspisious of CAP is that is not only represents people such as yourself who are legitimate claiments but it includes People of Distant Indian Ancstry ...
For example , you mentioned the Native Council of NB
http://web.archive.org/web/20080208213330/http://www.abo-peoples.org/affiliates/nbapc.html
Fredericton, New Brunswick
Mission Statement
To the New Brunswick Aboriginal People's Council, Self-Government begins - but does not end - with control over our land. Government means jurisdiction over our renewable and non-renewable resources, education, health and social services, public order and the shape and composition of our political institutions. While some of our plans may sound far-reaching to some people, they should not be regarded as a threat. We do not want to recreate a world that has vanished. We do not want to turn back the clock. Far from it. We welcome the challenge to see our culture grow and change in directions that we have chosen for ourselves. We do not want to become objects of sentimentality. Nor do we want our culture to be preserved in amber for the amusement or even edification of others. What we do want, what we demand, is nothing more than control over our own lives and destiny. That control is called Self-Government.
Membership Criteria
Constitution and By-Laws 1. Membership A. Full membership in the council shall be limited to persons of Aboriginal ancestry (Indigenous People of North America) 16 years of age and older and husbands and wives who do not reside on a Reserve. Only a Full-Aboriginal-Member shall be eligible to vote and Assemblies or Special Meetings or to hold elective office at the Executive or board of Directors level of the Council.
I.To be eligible for Full Membership people must live off the reserve in the province of New Brunswick for six (6) months prior to applying for Membership.II Any person wishing to join the council as a full member shall meet the requirements of Membership and must fill out and have approved a Membership form prescribed for such purposes
III To be eligible for full Membership a person must be a descendant of a verified and known Aboriginal person since July 1, 1867.
So... if someones one Native ancestor was 70 years old in 1867, and this was their 4 or 5 times great grandparent, and this person hadn't had anything to do with this part of their heritage in several generations, would this person and peoplelike this be represented as Aboriginal people by CAP ?
Why would people of such distant descent be included - and even supported in claiming the resources that belong to First Nations communities...
Why are people with such small amounts of Native descent represented by CAP ? What kind of precedent does this set?
If people of such distant ancestry are recognized by CAP as Aboriginal people, how might this principle affect the soverinty of the First nations communities in your area?
I am suspisious that the reason CAP is including people with such extreme distant ancestry is because this seems like a way to make it look like there is a larger number of Aboriginal people living off reserve who need the services and funding provided to CAP than there really is...
I can see where this stratagy provides the canadians governement with a politically correct reason to remove more funding from First Nations communities... Which creates stories like yours, which creates more of a need for an organization like CAP ... And further removes the political powert and soverinty from the First Nations communities .....
Maybe I am just overly suspisious and I am not understanding what is going on there ...
But it seems odd when the canadian government sets it up so First Nations people loose status and ( ? funding ) for band members after 2 generations of outmarriage , but they are willing to fund a political organization which supports someone with a 4 times greatgrandma who was Mi'kmaq who wants access to the resources belonging to Aboriginal people.
Are you sure this isn't being intentionally manipulated in favor of more rights for people who have more nonnative ancestry?
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I can say this about so called PODIAs, why is it that, when a person has a European ancestor that is equally distant on the "family tree" as an Indigenous one, they are expected to forget all about the Indigenous one and expected to self-identify as European (or "white")? They are PODEAs ('person of distant european ancestry') as well as PODIAs, and yet being a European descendant is so normalised that that up to right now, there hasn't even been anything like PODEA to describe them.
You know this is a good point on your part, however given my newer understanding of the word PODIA after having read a lot of posts by people on here such as Educated Indian and MP, I think the concept of racial ancestry, and BQ versus community and tribal recognition may have you confused.
If the people in question in this thread at one time had higher Indigenous BQ at one time, and despite intermarriage with NONS had maintained their indigenous culture and ways in tact, and have been recognized from historic days to the present by the government and other tribal groups as an Indigenous people; then I feel it is likely going by what I have read that they would not count as PODIA's, and their claims would not be questioned. Things to keep in mind in regards to this is that the word PODIA does apply to Mexicans and other people from Latin America who may have over 50% Native blood, but culturally are something else. So in this sense even somebody with higher BQ can count as a PODIA.
What it seems to me this thread is about, is a group of people coming out of the woodwork claiming some Metis ancestry or whatever, and then thinking they can claim to be a new tribe, or historic one. This is not unlike the people in the US who often claim to be Cherokee or some other tribe, and then try and start a tribe and think by definition is should be seen in the same light as the still existing historic and recognized tribes such as the Cherokee.
Perhaps these people do have the Metis blood they claim, however having NDN blood does not confer that one is an Indian. Nor should it mean these people should group up and try and get recognized as some historic tribal body, when they have no such right to do so. That is of course, if that is what is going on here. I have only briefly read this thread.
I did like the idea presented by you that I put in quotes, but a statement like that I think would be serve to argue about somebody who is lower BQ, and has maintained cultural and community ties to their people, or an Indian community and should be seen as such. Not when somebody comes out of the woodwork claiming some ancestry they have zero contact with, and might only be doing it for monetary or personal gain at the expense of those who are truly Native regardless of their amount of NDN or European ancestry.
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I will try and pick out some of your main points and show why i think you are publishing a lot of misinformation, but as you have completely flooded this topic with incorrect and often contradictory claims it's not easy ....
Starting with this as one of the more obvious imaginary facts you cited ..
In 1763, the Treaty of Paris ended the war between France and Great Britain, and most of the land that France had claimed was transferred to Great Britain, whereupon all the people who were of French ancestry went back to France or to territory held by France (nominally held). The French left! There was no reason for French people to be on British territory. People of mixed French ancestry, on the other hand, could not return to France since they did not originate there, they remained in the Maritimes and in parts of New England.
These are historical facts. Though priests who were French did remain, and nuns, but they had no progeny at all.
No these aren't historical facts. This is a fiction based on a your personal interpretation of a few selected historical facts.
I know Wikipeddia isn't the best source, but most the information in this article seems to be a good summery and from other accounts I have read the basic facts esential to the point I want to make seem well documented....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Upheaval
Deportation
Approximately 7,000 Acadian were deported during 1755. The deportees were held on prison ships for several weeks before being moved to their destinations, leading to the deaths of hundreds. An estimated 2,700 deportees died before reaching their destination. An additional 10,000 are estimated to have died from displacement during the winter of 1755–1756. There were approximately 23,000 Acadians before the deportation according to provincial records, but based on British records, only an estimated 10,000 survived. Approximately 5,000 to 6,000 Acadians escaped to Quebec, hid among the Mi'kmaq, or were able to hide in the countryside and avoid deportation until the situation settled down. [8]
Obviously attempting to capture and deport 23,000 Acadians who lived all over Nova Scotia and what is now New Brunswick, in widely dispersed farming communities surrounded by wildreness would not manage to round up all the people. Many ran away and how much Native blood they had did not have anything to do with this, or with who was caught and deported.
These people who were deported , who didn't die , were mostly dumped off in the United States where they faced a lot of problems surviving. The US was not French territory. Only a small minority were returned to France. Some made a new home in the US, but many returned to Acadia.
If your claim was true, and only mixed blood Acadians were not deported, once people were captured their family histories would have to be carefully examined, and those with Native blood released.
This obviously didn't happen...
Perhaps some French moved into what was to become the USA, but that's not what we're addressing here
Actually that is where most of these displaced people were dumped and it is relevent here, as many French Acadians are reported to have made their way back to NS . Of course they would. Many last saw their wives, children , parents , brothers or sisters in NS . Of course people returned hoping to reconnect with their families. Your ideas that only the Acadians with Native blood remained and everyone without a CDIB card was neatly packed up and sent back to France is just silly.
The Acadians, who had wanted to remain neutral in the war between the French and British, were never trusted by the British because of their Indigenous ancestry.That's why they were deported, or moved south for awhile,
No, the French were never trusted because they refused to swear alligence to the british crown. I seem to recall the sticking point was that they refused to take up arms against other frenchmen.
though most did eventually return,
Oh now you are even contradicting your earlier claims that all the mainly French Acadians were deported and had no reason to return ....
only to find that new settlers brought in by the British were now occupying not only their land, but their houses, save a very few who took loyalty oaths to the British.
i thought you believed the problem was the british didn't trust the Acadians who had indigenous blood , then you said only the Acadians with indigenous blood remained , and now you are claiming ( correctly ) the problem was that the Acadians refused to take loyalty oaths. Obviously everything you claim isn't true. Are you just making this up as you go along saying whatever you think might confuse people into thinking Acadians wern't a group of mainly french colonists?
Some French families did recieve help from the Mi'kmaq, and some of the families who recieved help were undoubtably related to some of the Mi'kmaq through blood or marriage. But having a brother sister aunt or uncle with marital ties to the Native community does not necessarily mean a blood relationship. Even if a person is an Acadian who descends from someone who was alive in 1755 - 1769 -and thois ancestor who was alive in 1755 had a grandparent or great grandparent parent who was Native , would not mean that this Acadian person living today would have any substantial Native descent ...
A good example of an Acadian family that did hide out with Mi'kmaq relatives, and which lived in an isolated area and managed to retain a substantial amount of Native blood , can be found in the family background of Jasen Benwa .
http://www.jasenbenwah.ca/genpage_edeme_joseph.htm
http://jasenbenwah.tripod.com/genpage.htm
http://www.jasenbenwah.ca/genpage_marie_therese.html
All the Native blood that came into the family, did so a long long time ago through 4, possibly 5 ancestors who through intermarriage in a small isolated community repeatedly became Jasen's 11 times gr grandparents, 10 times great grandparents , 9 times great grandparents , 8 times great grandparents and one 7 times great grandparent. These distant ancestors were Mi'kmaq or Montagnais. Jasen also descends from one 5 times great grandmother who was Mi'kmaq and she is in his family tree in 2 places. As descendants from these families lived in a small community and tended to intermarry they retained a larger percentage of Native blood than is usual for people after 8 to 15 generations of out marriage.
Looking at this, and doing the math it looks like Jasen Benwah's Mom is at most 3 /32 of Native descent and Jasen Benwah's Dad is at most 1/16. In calculating this I always rounded up to the higher figure when the fractions became too small to figure out, and when there was any evidence a person was likely to be of Native descent, I assumed they were.
In the mid to late 1700's the family of Germain Lejeune who occupies a predominate place in this family tree , were recorded as Mi'kmaq in a marriage record. Many other records and now DNA show this family was almost entirely French.
The mother of the Lejeune groom had one grandmother, the wife of Philip Muise, who was Mi'kmaq. ( Jasen descends from this Muise line, but no one in his family tree descends from this more recent recorded French / Mi'kmaq marriage in the 1700's ) . More on the situation this mainly Acadian family found itself in can be read through the link below.
http://deja-vu.ca/Joseph_Martine_Story_1.htm
http://genforum.genealogy.com/cgi-bin/print.cgi?lejeune::1013.html
Over the past 250 years the Native blood in Jasen's community was carried by Acadians with the surnames like Lejeune, Benoit, Jesso, Hache- Gallant, and Marshe.
In the links below there is Church records , census records and specific family histories . Although there is records which record some people as being Indian in this community , these people did not marry into Jasen's family, and as far as I can see, none of Jasen's slightly mixed blood ancestors in 1850- 1900 were recorded there as being Indian.
http://nl.canadagenweb.org/wcbstg_marr_sprc1.htm
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cannf/wcbstg.htm
The general Acadian population probably has varying degrees of Native descent , and this community probably has a lot more reason than most Acadian communities to claim itself as Metis, in yet even then, the evidence is that these were mainly French families with a relatively small amount of distant Native ancestry. Maybe this small pocket of intermarried people is right in claiming to be Acadian Metis, but this isolated Acadian community is not the norm.
On the other end of the spectrum is people who try and claim sovreighnty for all French Canadians and appear to just make stuff up to justify this...
This webpage linked to below has probably been moved or removed, but here is a sample of some of the fake facts being created by this person Nighthawk ... The author of this is Simon Raven who is Nighthawks partner. He is or was the owner of a website recaimationinfo which claims to be dedicated to the reclaimation of indigenous rights.
http://wabanaki.kisikew.org/mikmaq/natigostec.html
From Sovereignty to Servitude ~ Reclaiming Indigenous Rights
COTE - COTY - CODY - COSTE
of Turtle Island ("Canada", "North America")
The first person in North America to be given the surname Côté was Jean Côté (Jehan dit Coste).
(edited because last time I quoted Nighthawks genealogical misinformation I was informed it was her intellectual property ... With her permission I would requote this entire article if she feels what I am quoting presents her work in a way that is unfairly out of context. Which is why I usually quote things )
His ancestors were the Original people of Anticosti Island.
(edit)
Natigostec (Mi'kmaq) meaning "forward land".
(edit)
Jehan of Natigostec (his Original name is unknown) was either kidnaped, (edit) or perhaps he had been left an orphan, after his family had been slaughtered by the invaders. He is believed to have been a very young child at the time, his birth date is thought to be about 1603.
(edit)
He was put on a ship to be sent to France,
(edit)
His education in France seems to have included being named Jean or Jehan Côté dit Coste. No record of any baptism has ever been found,
(edit)
he was permitted to return to North America, his homeland.
edit
He was returned to the Île d'Orléans where the Jesuits were administering a colony from c. 1625 for Huron "orphans" and other newly enculturated Original people
.
(edit)
On 11 November 1635 he was married to Anne Martin, who was the sister of Abraham Martin, for whom the Plains of Abraham were named. The couple were permitted to settle on the Île d'Orléans,
(edit)
Their descendants have spread to the four quarters of Turtle Island. Jehan of Nantigostec, Mi'kmaq, and Anne Martin (Matchonon), who was Huron-Wyandot, are the ancestors of many people who consider themselves to be French in Canada to this day, due primarily to the act of forced enculturation, cultural genocide, and assimilation by destruction of Original rights and birthrights by the Empires of Europe.
It is time for the Reclamation of Indigenous Rights to begin. In 2007, the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples was adopted by the world; only four countries voted against the Declaration, Canada, the USA, Australia, and New Zealand.
The Reclamation must begin with each individual recognising and affirming who and what they are as Original people of Turtle Island; as is written, "you don't know where you're going unless you know from whence you came."
(version français - traducteur Simon Raven)
I quoted some of your claims in reply # 7 in the NAFPS thread below, discussing who is an NDN , in order to refute them and you told me the misinformation you were publishing about the ancestors of thousands of other people was copyrighted ... >:(
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1871.0
How can people point out ideas that aren't supported by any evidence without quoting what they are refering to?
http://www.reclamationinfo.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=61
Posted: Mon Jun 16, Re: "Dit" Names - FN family, the Conspiracy against My People
Nighthawk
According to the Jesuit Relations, the name Martin replaced the Huron name Matchonon: "On the 3rd of November of the same year [1635-36?], Father Charles l'Allemant baptized a young Savage about twenty-five years old, called by the people of his nation Matchonon, surnamed by the French, Martin; at baptism he received the name of Joseph." (Reference, the Jesuit Relations)
Simon is a descendant of Anne Martin/Matchonon who was the sister of Abraham, and Huron-Wyandot.
None of the claims above refer to any supporting documentation except this one reference to someone with the name Matchonon being baptised with the name Martin. It would be fair to say you were wondering if the family of Abraham martin might have any connection to this man baptised with the same name, but there is no reason I can see to even guess it is likely any connection existed. Thats like thinking evryone named Smith must be related to a Native family in the same town with the same name .
I already posted links to what I believe is more accurate information on the origins of this family, but to make sure the information is presented together i am reposting them below;
http://www.geocities.com/weallcamefromsomewhere/Kebec/anne_martin.html
(edited to add - Most genealogists say they aren't sure how Ann Martin was related to Abraham Martin , and there is various theories out there.as this website does not explain it's sources it's hard to know if the information is entirely correct )
In reply #7 I also added the Y DNA results showing 3 French Canadians descended from Cote have European patrilineal DNA. Assuming these people descend from Jean Cote - and Nighthawk has claimed he is the patrilineal ancestor of all or most Cotes in North America , this probably proves beyond all doubt that Jean Cote father was not indigenous.
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/French-Canadian%20Heritage%20DNA%20Project/index.aspx?fixed_columns=on
Cote J2
Cote J2
Cote J2
So now i see nighthawk has spun a new story that fits better with the facts ...
http://genforum.genealogy.com/canada/messages/82720.html
MARTIN and COTE' dit COSTE', Ile d'Orleans, 1600s, "New France"
Posted by: L. A. Childress (ID *****2250) Date: July 11, 2008 at 00:03:37
of 87810
Jean or Jehan COTE'[1] dit COSTE' and Anne MARTIN/MATCHONON**, a Wyandott
(Huron-Wendat) woman****, are the ancestors of almost all people with the
surname COTE, COSTE, COSTA, COTY, CODY (and many other variants) in "North
America" today, they are estimated to have 50,000 to 100,000 living
descendants. Was Mathieu da/de COSTE', the first African known to have
lived in "Canada", the father of Jean/Jehan COTE' dit COSTE'?
This theory at least does have some supporting evidence ...A similar surname and a child of Jean Cote with a name suggesting he had frizzy hair ...... Asking a question about this seems fair ....However many genealogists have said they think a French Cote' family was related to Abraham Martin . So it is hard to say if there was a connection or what that was....
But then there is more statements where speculation is reported as fact
He was married to a Huron woman 11 Nov 1635, Anne MARTIN/MATCHONON, and the couple were among the first families established in the colony set up by the Jesuits for their Huron-Wendat converts on the Ile d'Orleans.
(continues...)
Anne MARTIN/MATCHONON however, might have been a half-breed with some European ancestry; she was the daughter of Abraham MARTIN dit l'ECOSSAIS, so this might be why their descendants were recorded. Also they were part of the colony established on the Ile d'Orleans by the Jesuits for their Huron converts. She would have been considered Huron-Wendat by her own people, not half-breed, since the Wyandott are maternal lineal.
So here Nighthawk is claiming Anne Martin is Abraham Martin's daughter instead of his sister... Which is what she said in posts just a few weeks before. It seems she really doesn't know and is just making this up as she goes along .
While there probably was a convent on the Ile d'Orleans, from what I read there was also numourous french colonsts who recieved land grants. It is said to be one of the first places colonists settled. Other genealogists simply report Jean Cote' was one of these regular french settlers.
Nighthawk, is there any actual records which say Jean Cote arrived on Ile d'Orleans as an indiginous person associated with the convent or are you just making this up because it's one of many possiblities, and you like the idea ? Is there any records that Ann Martin or her mother was Huron - or is this just you guessing what may have happened and presenting this as a fact? If this information is incorrect, you are encouraging thousands of French people to intrude into indigenous sovriehnty and claim this for themselves on the basis of incorrect information.
There are people who feel this is a problem - such as the allegations below.
http://mohawknationnews.com/news/singlenews.php?lang=en&layout=mnn&category=0&newsnr=703.
In another swindle the Congress of Aboriginal People CAP Patrick Brazeau is signing up enough settlers to become “Metis” to outnumber the real Indigenous. Some native people are being roped into this confidence game. In a recent Kanehsatake Mohawk election, Mother Joan signed up hundreds of secret non-Indians who voted by proxy to put in the colonial nominee as chief. Prime Minister Stephen Harper appointed Brazeau to “sleep it off” in the Senate as a reward for setting up this CAP scam.
Nighthawk
All there ever were historically were Peace and Friendship treaties. The Wabanaki peoples never ceded their land, not one grain of sand of it. The British more or less ignored this reality and have been pretending it was their land, but seem to be waking up to the fact that they forgot to "buy" the land or even have obtained rights to have a colonial government on the land. The Canadian parliament sits on unceded Anishinaabek (Algonquin) land, for instance.
Ahh...well ..how very convinent to discover most Canadians with families who have been in the area for a few generations probably have a drop of native blood back there somewhere...
They forgot to get legal title but thanks to people like you declaring people with a drop of blood are all Metis AKA indigenous now they can claim they are the title holders anyways...
All the colonists need to do is declare themselves Metis and consult with themselves...
Nighthawk
they are "squatters".
according to people like you if any of them have a drop of blood they are "indigenous"
Nighthawk
Hence all the creation of "nogonquins" (nominal time-lapse Algonquins with no or little ancestry), "nohawks" (fake Mohawks), and what have you.
Interesting. It looks to me like your invention of indigenous genealogies and insistence people with a small amount of Native blood like the Acadians are aboriginal people with a right to claim their sovriegnty is doing exactly the same thing ...
Nighthawk
I think that NAFPS should maybe stick to people who are frauds, predators, and those who actually are hurting someone, rather than getting involved in genealogy, historical and geopolitical issues debates, and worse, seemingly trying to dictate who can and who can't be part of a Nation, which is for the peoples themselves to ultimately decide.
And leave misinformation unchallenged? Why?
There's a distribution map here:
http://www.abo-peoples.org/CAP/About/Custom_Maps.html#4
that shows Metis east of where I would have considered them to be, in the Maritimes and in Quebec.
Right. Put out by CAP - which you yourself accuse of inventing indigenous people to displace the soverinty of real indigenous peoples......
Seems to me people like you are very much a part of the problem.
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Tansi;
As a Metis person, living in a Saskatchewan Metis community, I certainly do not have an understanding of the issues of mixed blooded people, from the east coast, so do not feel able to make judgements about them.
As to the Congress of Aboriginal People, they came out in support of the present government, during the last election campaign and, when the election was over, they were able to access some direct funding for thier organization. I do not know who CAP represents, thier identity criteria or who elects thier leadership. Any research that I have undertaken has left me with the idea that they are not operating a transparent operation and has left many people with questions about them.
The Canadian government has, over many years, worked hard to eradicate Aboriginal peoples, in many ways. I can see that C31 Status has an expiry date and is being discussed by First Nation groups as it may be another attempt at "extinguishment" of our Rights and Cultures.
These are just some of my thoughts.
Ric
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Race is an artificial construct imposed by the British in North America, for the most part.
"Race" is a social construct, yes. But as long as a social construct is being used to bash people over the head, we have to name it for what it is.
The idea of "white" as a "race", rather than a bunch of people of diverse ethnicities who may share nothing but a degree of melanin deprivation, is a construct that has been used in many countries to oppress others. It's not just a North American thing. See South Africa, for one, or the belief in eugenics propagated by the Nazis. Or even how the English considered the Irish "black".*
It's more realistic and egalitarian to recognize what ethinicities "white" people actually come from, and for "white" people to be in touch with their own cultural roots. But the problem we're finding in America, and now increasingly in Europe, is that Euro-whatever people have lost touch with their roots, and many only identify with the social construct of "white" and the ugly, superficial, consumerist, mainstream "culture" that has been growing in America and infecting the rest of the world.
As a social construct, "white" and "black" are categories used to further white supremacy and oppress people of color. But as long as there are social, political and economic benefits that come from identifying as part of that construct, people are going to do it. And they will have an investment in maintaining that structure.
The discussion of how to fight and dismantle that structure is too complicated for one (already long and partially off-topic) post. But I wanted to say something because, while many of us may be committed to questioning and reframing, even eliminating, the oversimplified and oppressive categories of "black" and "white", it doesn't fight racism in the here and now to just pretend those categories don't still exist in the minds of the vast majority of people.
Additionally, people who frame things in terms of a black/white dichotomy tend to make ethnicities besides European and African-American invisible. The lives and realities of NDN people tend to fall through the cracks of that construct.
More on-topic: As Rattle and Moma have stressed, and as most everyone on here has said repeatedly, it's about culture, not BQ.
Nighthawk, I get the impression that you think mixed (yes, I'm going to say it) -race people should identify as only one culture or another. In reality, it's often more complex. Unless people grew up completely immersed in only one part of their heritage, people with diverse ancestry often have a degree of interest in, and identification with, multiple parts of their heritage. I don't see people trying to ignore the one NDN ancestor, but it seems silly to say one ancestor defines someone more than all the others, and all the cultural inputs and social constructs that have shaped a person's family and identity in the many intervening generations.
Starting over with a radical self-redefinition is starkly different from growing up in a particular ethnic community. Talk about artificial constructs...
I'm just repeating myself here, and repeating what others have already explained quite well. But I find some of what you're saying, Nighthawk, to be surreal and too theoretical, especially when compared to the real lives, needs, and apparent motivations of the people in question.
* Not the same as the physical appearance of the "Black Irish", but an ethnic slur that was used by the English against all Irish, no matter their hair and eye color. We were also called "White Ni---rs". BTW, "British" is a political and social construct that some of us find offensive :-) Just sayin'.
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Ric is correct, these people are not Metis who are a distinct people, with a language, history and traditions. The Metis are NOT simply mixed bloods they have established communities, recognised historically by Europeans and aboriginals.There are illions of Canadians and Quebecois families with distant aboriginal and Inuit blood, but that hardly makes them aboriginal or Metis. Americans seem to mix up Metis which mean "mixed" in French and "Mestizo" which means mixed in Spanish. In fact the majority of Mexicans and Central Americans are Mestizos, but few consider themselves to be indigenous.
Louis Riel is one of the most misunderstood figures in our history. He was a visionary, political leader capable of organising the Metis people into a government. This was when the Metis were the majority in the NW (Manitoba, Saskatcehwan and Alberta). He saved the French language in the west and Catholic education. Although he was also the victim of Anglo racism and was hung for his "crimes", he was a "father of confederation" because like all the other "fathers" he was responsible for bringing Manitoba into Canada.
These groups pray on ignorance and peoples' desire to identify with being indigenous...
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Tansi;
Thank you, Don! In Western Canada, we also have "Louis Riel Day" on Nov. 16 each year, when we continue to Honour Riel's contribution to our people, on the anniversary of the day that he was hanged. On June 21 each year, we celebrate "National Aboriginal Day," as well,and Metis people are included with First Nations in Honouring Aboriginal peoples, across the country. In our region, every Aboriginal Day has celebrations at the Flying Dust First Nation and the organizers always ensure that the Metis Flag is raised, along with the other flags.
Ric
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Ric,
Having lived in the US for many years, I can say that the vast majority of Americans have no concept of anyone's history except their own. So it doesn't surprise me that they don't know anything about Canadian history. That allows people to take the word "Metis" and to create their own definition. When I went to that "metis" site and saw how they define "Metis" as any mixed blood regardless tribe or degree of Metis blood. They probably have members who belong to other tribes like the "Moundbuilders" and the "Binay". Metis are a Canadian aboriginal ethnic groups and recognised as such. The Acadians are a different matter, yes there was mixing with the French "habitants" in Nova Scotia, as in the rest of Canada, however those mixed bloods didn't establish a distinct aboriginal culture, nor did the mixed bloods in Quebec, and almost all Quebecoise families have some distant aboriginal blood, my wife is Quebecoise. Their culture is francophone, their religion is Roman Catholic. They may have aboriginal blood but few consider themselves to be aboriginal.
In Canada, the words "Metis", means being part of a historical community, with language and traditions.
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Hi Don and Ric
Thanks for your input,
I've been doing a lot of google searching and from what I read it seems the main problem is that in 1982 the canadian government rewrote the constitution and recognized the Metis as Aboriginal people - without making it clear which mixed blood people might be rightly considered Metis and members of a rights bearing Metis community...
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/const/annex_e.html#II
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=3f7827a1-d524-4c56-a6f4-d86bb1aada68
Maybe I'm ruffling some feathers
By The Ottawa CitizenAugust 3, 2007
( Begins with info about CAP ...)
According to the 2001 Census (the last year for which we have figures) there are 967,305 people in Canada who identify themselves as aboriginal. While two-in-three of these people are First Nations Indians, nearly one third are M?tis, the fastest growing aboriginal group in the country, and one which has little legal standing in Canada.
"There are no rules to determine if someone is M?tis," says Fred Caron, the assistant deputy minister for the Federal Interlocutor. (Created in 1985, the Federal Interlocutor is always the Minister of Indian and Northern Affairs, with the mandate to act as "point of contact" between the government and aboriginal Canadians living off reserve.)
"M?tis are recognized in the Constitution as one of Canada's aboriginal peoples, but it is not an easy thing to define," Mr. Caron continues. (continues...)
Why would the canadian government write up a legally binding document that gives a partially identified ?someone? entitlement to resources , but to write this in such a way so it wasn't clear who exactly the owner is? It seems the lawyers should have realized this was setting the stage for some problems... but maybe there was a good reason this couldn't be fully defined at the time ... ?
It sounds like canadian courts are still in the process of defining this..
http://www.ainc-inac.gc.ca/ai/ofi/mns/pwy-eng.asp
Does the Powley decision include a legal definition of Métis?
No, although the Powley decision does provide guidance on who can claim Aboriginal rights under section 35. According to the decision, the term "Métis" refers to distinctive peoples of mixed ancestry who developed their own customs, practices, traditions and recognizable group identities separate from their Indian, Inuit and European ancestors. The term "Métis" does not refer to all individuals of mixed Aboriginal and European ancestry.
I guess the problem is, for people who really want to stretch this definition to include themselves, 10 people and a dog could be said to be a community, any small town can claim to have a history and culture which is distinct from another small town 20 miles down the road, and any community that was organized enough to erect a community center or a fire hall could claim to have a degree of self government ...and if one of the first families in one of these communities descended from Pocahontas, and this family intermarried with the other families, I guess this community could try to claim they are a rights bearing Metis community. And as the definition of a Metis person depends on them coming from a Metis community, and a Metis community could be any community of slightly mixed blood people that says they are Metis, there is no real independant criteria and the interdependent definitions about who is Metis and what is a real Metis community , just go around in circles.
I think the key is probably something both Ric and Don have repeatedly pointed out. The communities that have rights as Metis were repeatedly recognized as a Metis community many times through history. As a general population these communities of people were not invisible, and in fact there is often well documented discrimination that targeted these communities specifically for being of largely non native origins ( Metis.)
Of course, stretching the recognition of the Metis as Aboriginal Peoples to include much of the general non-native candian population which has some slight distant Native descent , would be contrary to the whole purpose of recognizing Metis communities as having some rights as Aboriginal peoples whch are different than the general non native canadian population....
Gee I wonder who would benifit from that ?
Sorry if I sound unfairly sarcastic to some people who may have a legitimate claim....
I think I am begining to have a problem with the internet version of road rage when it comes to wannabes and their convoluted logic...
Arrrggg ... Maybe time for a breather..
Oh... and I was too overwhelmed to reply to everything Nighthawk wrote. Quite a lot of what was said was about what DNA tests can and cannot show. There is a thread discussing that below ....
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1375.0
And I don't agree with reasons Nighthawk dismissed the testimonies given by the people at Belle- Ile-en- Mer in Reply #19. These people descend from the exact same ancestors as other Acadians, and if the descendents ended up in different places , their grandparents and great grandparents were still the same people. Over the years lots of records that were misplaced in the British take over have been found, and these records which were not available at the time, mostly support the information provided by these tesitimonies. There is quite a lot of evidence that with the exception of a few errors and some omitted information, these tesitimonies as to Acadian origins are largely correct, and the large majority of Acadian women who left Acadian descendents came from France.
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Thank you for this information. Canada has had the paternalistic Indian Act on the books for almost a century as far as I know.t It is archaic and treats aboriginal people as "wards of the state" which allow for the cultural genocide of residential schools, disenrollment of aboriginal women who married non Indians and the "60's scoop" (taking children from their homes and placing them with white families).
Aboriginal people were even restricted from starting on reserve businesses, making them dependant on welfare, hunting and fishing.
Now the majority of aboriginal people live off reserves in urban centres where they have few social services, such as alcohol and drug rehab, employment training and education. While some aboriginal people in cities have been able to find employment, get higher education, housing etc, most have not.
I believe that as a social democracy Canada has failed to provide the tools for aboriginal people to become self sufficient. As many reserves are very isolated, economic development is really impossible. You can get jobs if you have to fly in to the reserves. Other reserves have developed natural resources, oil, natural gas, mineral (in the Arctic Inuit are very involved in diamond mining and insuring that environmental failsafes are in place). But that doesn't help the vast majority of aboriginal and Metis people.
Most Metis are farmer/ranchers and their communities have faired better because they are less isolated. Issues such as housing and healthcare have really not been addressed by the Conservative government. All provinces and treaty bands, as well non ststus organisations agreed to the Kelowna Accords that would see a transfer of $5 billion directly to bands and reserves. However the government has refused to pay. Therefore the paternalism continues.
The real issues facing are political, and until aboriginal people become as politically involved as other ethnic groups they will contiue to be shut out of the process. Interestingly, when I raised the issue in a Canadian aboriginal group "Crazy Eagle" who claims to be Miqmaq attacked me for posting information about aboriginal candidates. 4 of our 5 parties support the Kelowna Accords if those parties or coalitions of those parties support a new legislation there will be no change the staus quo will continue and the aboriginal population will have little hope getting out of poverty.
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Reply #9
apukjij
We have also fought hard and long for the two National Aboriginal Caucus associations, the Native Council of Nova Scotia and the Native Council of New Brunswick. i suggest very strongly that Ms Swan and the Bras D'or Lakes metis to join such a council. because in the Tri-Partite negotiations involving Treaty Beneficiaries and the rights they have with the Feds and the Province; the Native Council of NS and NB are the only metis organizations that are sitting at the negotiation tables in the Maritimes and they are already serving the people very well.
http://ncns.ca/about/our-vision/
The Native Council of Nova Scotia is an active affiliate of our national organization the Congress of Aboriginal Peoples (CAP)
I have been continuing to wonder about this.
This has been discussed further starting in Reply #32 by Apukjij
in the first link below ..
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2456.30
The original topic in the link above was a misunderstanding, once this was sorted out the thread got split into a new discussion on Treaty Indians, First Nations, Descendants, in the second link below ...
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2459.0
A lot of what is being discussed in these threads connects in some ways to this one.
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The Congress of Aboriginal People (CAP) is a totally bogus organization. It has been more than 40 years since the Assembly of First Nations AFN) and it's predessor the National Indian Brotherhood (NIB) have officially represented Canadian status Indians. The AFN is composed of elected Chiefs representing all First Nations (reservations) in Canada.AFN has been recognized as the official voice of Canadian Indians by the Canadian Government since the founding of the NIB decades ago. CAP has no clear mandate nor membership. The current Harper Government is very hostile to Aboriginal rights. The creation of CAP was encouraged and funded by the Harper government who chose to recognize CAP as a representative of Canadian NDNs. A comparable situation would be if the Congress of American Indians became too hard a nut for the American Government to crack. Then imagine the out rage if the US government recognized coddled and funded US NDNs who for whatever reason had it in for the elected NDN leadership. This is what is happening in Canada now. Most anyone with a grudge against an elected chief can join CAP. People with dubious claims to leadership such as self proclaimed Traditional Chiefs can readily find a place at CAPs table. The Harper NDNs, are pampered and well groomed. They say what the government wants them to say but they are not the real full meal deal the AFN is.
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It seems John's still back to his old tricks. Doing the same thing he's been doing all along. Lotta big claims about being an "expert" and "hereditary claim" as chief of all the Wabanaki tribes. He'll never change. Just posting this to keep him on the radar. He never gets anywhere with all his claims of awesomeness and expertise. In fact, every court case he ever testified in...he lost...this one will be no different. His skewed versions of history are comical at best and these days he's pretty much laughed at by everyone (although if you ask him he'll claim to speak for thousands, but you can see by the traffic on this fb page...that's bogus too). Just a warning. The inclusion of his name in the thread will more than likely generate a predictable rant from John here or elsewhere damning the page (possibly claiming we're working for the CIA....not a joke there, he really believes he's that important). So get yer popcorn ready.
https://www.facebook.com/treaty1663
Superdog
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AND .... More on Nancy Swan Cape at the Breton Post, Published on September 12, 2013 , who is now with Bras d'Or Indian Village Association....
"Bras d'Or Indian Village Association held a community meeting on Thursday to discuss the next step in their efforts to establish band status.
The latest development in these efforts came recently when a lawyer was hired who is known for helping the Qalipu Mi’kmaq First Nation in its efforts to achieve recognition as a band.
“He came to meet with us,” said Nancy Swan, chief of the Bras d’Or Indian Village, about what the group feels is a significant step.
“He knows our case because the people of Newfoundland are tracing to Little Bras d’Or.”
Cultural advisor Vaughan_Doucette [Eskisoni] , council member Jerry Gerrior and Andre Lejeune-Desjardins are shown drumming during Thursday's meeting for the Bras d'Or Indian Village Association. In back is Nancy Swan, chief of the Bras d'Or Indian Village Association, holding a copy of a land grant which the association believes will be important in efforts to achieve recognition as a band.
**** NOTE WITH NANCY'S DREAM TEAM LAWYER WHAT OCCURRED IN NEWFOUNDLAND !!!:
Dec. 2013 - GRAND COUNCIL OF MICMACS MIKMAWEY MAWIO `MI
STATEMENT TO UNITED NATIONS SPECIAL RAPPORTEUR ANAYA
Kwe, on behalf of the members of the Sante’ Mawiomi (Mi’kmaq Grand Council) who have traditionally and currently represent the 7 districts of Mi’kmaki, we thank you for your time. The Grand Council of Mi’kmaq, has two specific violations that require your attention.
(1) (CLIP....)
Secondly the federal government creation of the Qalipu Mi’kmaq band in in Ktaqmkuk (now called Newfoundland) that creates potentially 100,000 new status Indians who claim to be of Mi’kmaw heritage, which vastly outnumber the total current population of Mi’kmaq recog-nized in the Atlantic Canada. This unilateral federal action is violations of article 33 of the Declaration that affirms the ability of Indigenous people to determine their own identity and membership.
....
2. The Qalipu in Ktaqmkuk
The second issue of concern for Grand Council is the federal government creating between 60,000-100,000 new band members in the Mi’kmaq Band of Qalipu.
Canada only recog-nizes about 20,000 Mi’kmaq in Atlantic Canada, and the United States about 500 in Maine. While Canada has constitutional responsibilities over “Indians and Land reserved for Indians” they have wrongly interpreted their responsibilities and scope by recognizing Indians as a “Mi’kmaq” band.
Under our Aboriginal and Treaty rights and international human rights, the Grand Council has the jurisdiction and rights to create or recognize any individuals as “Mi’kmaq” in accor-dance with our custom and traditions. The Grand Council has never been consulted by the federal government or the Qalipu Mi’kmaq, during the creation or negotiation of this band.
The Qalipu Band is considered a landless band created by a negotiated settlement that seeks to remedy historical wrongs of Newfoundland; However, their large numbers of new Mi’k-maq is our concern. This concern is not with all Mi’kmaq from Newfoundland, in fact we have had consistently had Keptins representing Newfoundland on the Grand Council for generations. These new Qalipu members we simply do not know and do not recognize as Mi’kmaq.
Canada asserts it can create thousands of new Mi’kmaq while continuing to deny members in our own community the same recognition based on their discriminatory Indian Act. We are puzzled that the discriminatory policies depriving our grandchildren in our communities Indian status based on blood quantum does not apply equally to the new Qalipu band mem-bers.
http://www.eskasoni.ca/uploads/newsletter/Sante-Mawiomi-Statement-to-UN-Special-Rapporteur.pdf
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The preceding post was also posted (misplaced?) in another thread, with a different beginning (bolded here):
Nancy who tells me i am a trouble maker because i address'd her about supporting Leonard Peltier along with James Swan (Russell Means - Republic of the Lakota) needs to get her mind UN-BENT !!!! .... More on Nancy Swan Cape at the Breton Post, Published on September 12, 2013 , who is now with Bras d'Or Indian Village Association....
The cited newspaper article is here: http://www.capebretonpost.com/news/local/band-status-efforts-continue-for-bras-dor-indian-village-5121/
See also: http://www.capebretonpost.com/news/local/bras-dor-indian-village-association-meets-with-legal-representative-5249/
Event also referred to here: http://brasdorindianvillagebandassociation.yolasite.com/bras-dor-indian-village-association-meets-with-le.php
The rest of the preceding post comes from the PDF linked to at the bottom.