Author Topic: Say what Johnny Depp?  (Read 74527 times)

Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: Say what Johnny Depp?
« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2012, 07:25:06 pm »
Ryan McMahon Gets Angry #4 - I Ain't Gettin' On No Horse

"Hey, Johnny Depp - There's A Crow In Your Hair?!?!?" (language warning)

http://soundcloud.com/rmcomedy/ryan-mcmahon-gets-angry-4


Offline E.P. Grondine

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Re: Say what Johnny Depp?
« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2012, 03:46:49 pm »
The way I remember the Lone Ranger is that his muscles nearly tore apart his clothing.

And how it is going?:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/27/armie-hammer-mirror-mirror-the-lone-ranger_n_1382926.html?ref=entertainment

Budget: Anybody got a spare $50 Mil to play with?:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/culturenews/9161066/John-Carter-flop-will-have-long-term-consequences.html

Dark Horizons probably has more on the last item.

More on settings, and setting things straight:
http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20587023,00.html

Anyone there going to show them what an 1869 Navaho blanket looked like?

« Last Edit: April 14, 2012, 04:09:28 pm by E.P. Grondine »

Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: Say what Johnny Depp?
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2012, 08:49:32 pm »
Another excellent piece from Adrienne at Native Appropriations. Here's an excerpt, but please check out the whole thing:

http://nativeappropriations.blogspot.com/2012/04/johnny-depp-as-tonto-im-still-not.html
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I say all this to establish the "credibility" of Johnny Depp's source material. But Depp's descriptions of why he was so drawn to the piece are even worse. On the striped make-up representing the "separate sections of the individual":

    “There’s this very wise quarter, a very tortured and hurt section, and angry and rageful section, and a very understanding and unique side. I saw these parts, almost like dissecting a brain, these slivers of the individual. That makeup inspired me.”

Because Tonto happens to be Native American, he has to be "wise," "tortured and hurt," "angry and rageful," and "very understanding and unique"? That's like Hollywood Indian Stereotypes 101.  Finally, on the hideous crow headdress itself:

    “It just so happened Sattler had painted a bird flying directly behind the warrior’s head. It looked to me like it was sitting on top. I thought: Tonto’s got a bird on his head. It’s his spirit guide in a way. It’s dead to others, but it’s not dead to him. It’s very much alive...The whole reason I wanted to play Tonto is to try to [mess] around with the stereotype of the American Indian that has been laid out through history, or the history of cinema at the very least — especially Tonto as the sidekick, The Lone Ranger’s assistant...As you’ll see, it’s most definitely not that.”

Right. So, I like the calling of the subject in the painting a "warrior," based solely on the fact that he is Native and male (stereotype #1). Of course the "warrior" has to have a "spirit guide" (stereotype #2), and has a mystical connection that outsiders cannot understand--"It's dead to others, but it's not dead to him" (stereotype #3). I think, Mr. Depp, when you said you hoped to "mess around with the stereotype of the American Indian," you actually meant "completely play into the stereotype of the American Indian," because I'm really not seeing anything subversive or new about your language or this mess of a portrayal. If this is your "salute" to Native Americans, I'm really afraid to watch the actual movie. Also, since we haven't seen a clip of the film yet, it remains to be seen if Depp will talk in the stereotypical broken-english "Tonto speak." Let's hope he drew the line somewhere.

What we have here is a case of an extreme mis-match between intent and impact. Johnny Depp might have entered this project with the nobelest of intentions, hoping to "honor" his heritage, "re-invent" the role of Natives in Hollywood, give Tonto more agency and move him from his sidekick status--but he went about it in exactly the wrong way. I don't know what the right way would have been, perhaps going to talk to some Comanche community members (turns out Tonto is "full blooded Comanche" in this version, not Apache as I had reported earlier) to ask how they would feel comfortable being portrayed on the big screen--or if they even felt comfortable at all. I know the right way would have been doing a little more research into hollywood portrayals of Native peoples, and realizing that picking your costume from a non-Native painter who openly admits he has no regard for historical accuracy would probably be a bad idea. Many people have given Johnny a free pass because of his [alleged -kpn] Native heritage, but I think that means we should hold him to a higher standard. If he is serious about honoring his ancestors and his past, he needs to realize that costuming Tonto like a fantasy Indian stereotype is not helping Native people, and his "intent" in the portrayal doesn't save him.

Johnny Depp might have thought his intent cleared him of any criticism. That we would stand back and say "well, he didn't mean to be offensive." or "his heart was in the right place." But that logic ignores the impact of his statements and his portrayal of Tonto. Think how many policies in Indian country were done by people with "good intentions," and how all that turned out for us. The impact here is that millions of people will see this film, and they will walk away with this inaccurate and stereotyped image of American Indians burned in their brains.
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More.... http://nativeappropriations.blogspot.com/2012/04/johnny-depp-as-tonto-im-still-not.html

Offline E.P. Grondine

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Re: Say what Johnny Depp?
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2012, 04:08:26 pm »
Thanks for the link, KN.

This is important, as "The Lone Ranger"'s success will not be determined by the NA community, anymore than "Pocahantas"s was.

It's clear Disney and Depp need something more than just people shouting at them - they need some real help.

Take the war paint off the face in that painting, and you'll see the face of a man who has experienced a lot - which is what Depp wanted.

But Depp would have had to age his face before putting on that war paint. Even to  play the man at a younger age would still require Depp aging his face before putting on the war paint.

Depp did not know the difference between a live and a dead crow, and this is seriously bad news. No one was there to tell him?

Surely Disney has enough money to pay for trained live crows.

And what does Tonto (Depp) look like without that war paint?

As to story and backstory: Comanche and Texas Ranger in 1869? How Disney intends to re-write that history into entertaining family fare is completely beyond me.

Given that Disney has hundreds of millions of dollars riding on this project, they can either get it right or they risk taking another big loss.

The sad part in all of this is that there was no one there to help Depp or Disney at the very beginning - no one they knew well and trusted.

And that those people have not shown up yet.

Oh well. It's a long way to final cut.



 

Offline E.P. Grondine

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Re: Say what Johnny Depp?
« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2012, 10:51:40 pm »
Once again, the thought came to me to check on this.

Now that his publicity tour for "Dark Shadows" is over, Depp is getting back to serious work. (In this case besides what this is going to do for Native Americans, that is also work measured in hundreds of millions of dollars instead of tens of millions of dollars. )

http://news.yahoo.com/comanche-nation-makes-johnny-depp-honorary-member-212341102.html

One of the interesting things to me is that in the television series (I'm not old enough to comment on the radio series), both the Lone Ranger and Tonto were father figures.

In this photo, Depp's face reflects a more appropriate age for those figures today. Again, in my view both Depp and Arnie are going to have to age their faces with makeup to play their characters.

Those of you out west know more than I do about this, but it also looks to me like Disney has also found some friends for some good advice.


Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: Say what Johnny Depp?
« Reply #21 on: May 23, 2012, 04:54:05 pm »
Thankfully this article quotes Native Appropriations blogger Adrienne Keene (Cherokee), and clarifies that he was adopted by one Native person, not the whole tribe (as some are reporting. I didn't think they got all the Comanches, everywhere, to adopt this jerk. (and sorry, yes, he's a very talented actor and I used to think he was pretty cool. but he's being a major jerk about all of this.)):
*******************************

Why Can Johnny Depp Play Tonto, but Ashton Kutcher and Sacha Baron Cohen Get Slammed?
Today 5:00 AM PDT by Leslie Gornstein

"Indeed, Johnny Depp has been adopted as an honorary son by a member of the Comanche Nation,essentially making him a part of that group. However, you are not alone in your line of thinking; not everyone is thrilled at the new matchup, or Depp's chosen approach to his Lone Ranger character:

In fact, Depp has been fielding criticism for months about his upcoming turn as Tonto. His exaggerated Marilyn Manson face paint, the dead bird he wears on his head—none of that has sat particularly well with many Native Americans.

That said, yes, Comanche LaDonna Harris did go ahead and ceremonially adopt the 48-year-old actor in her backyard on May 16. Per tradition, Depp was given small gifts, such as pottery, to then redistribute to the people who were honoring him.

Harris, who is president of the Americans for Indian Opportunity, told me that she has no worries about Depp's portrayal of Tonto. In fact, just the opposite.

"I don't share that concern for one reason," she told this B!tch. "Tonto is a role reversal this time. He's the hero in the movie, the brains. And the sidekick is the white guy, so to speak.

"I've admired him for quite some time, he's always referred to his own [Native American] heritage, and it was an appropriate time to see if he wanted to be adopted into my family."

Indeed, Depp said in 2011 that, "I guess I have some Native American [in me] somewhere down the line. My great-grandmother was quite a bit of Native American, she grew up Cherokee or maybe Creek Indian. Makes sense in terms of coming from Kentucky, which is rife with Cherokee and Creek."

Still, there are some people who are showing concern, or, at least, some confusion, about Harris's choice. One of those people is Adrienne Keene, a Cherokee writer who blogs under Native Appropriations.

"It's really complicated for me," she said, because Harris is "very well respected in Indian country. But my reaction is mixed, because I feel like others will say the adoption excuses Johnny from any sort of criticism for his portrayal of Tonto."

And, for the record, Keene isn't sure she's all that keen. She's been in contact with people on the Lone Ranger set who assured her that both Depp and the filmmakers treated Native American culture with great respect.

"Even if that's true," Keene tells me, "It's still Tonto; Johnny is still wearing face paint that looks like it should be in Kiss, and he has a dead bird on his head. What does it really mean on a broader level?"

As for what the adoption means, at least, on a narrower level, I found out: "He's my son," Harris tells me of Depp. "There's the responsibility of staying in contact, sending a card on Mother's Day, doing what other children do. It's a warm and cordial relationship."

A card every year from Johnny Depp? Can I adopt him too?"

Offline E.P. Grondine

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Re: Say what Johnny Depp?
« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2012, 02:34:03 pm »
I am feeling much much better about this now. This is very good news.

Also, Disney's movie division has a New Manager.

I fell pretty certain that the money necessary to turn The Lone Ranger into a really really good movie will be available now and it will be checked and polished early on, with advice from pre-release Native American viewers.
 


Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: Say what Johnny Depp?
« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2012, 05:19:04 pm »
I feel the same as I did when I first heard a white guy was doing a paintdown.

Like Dances With Wolves, some NDNs are getting jobs out of this (as extras, horse riders and wranglers, maybe a few small roles). Oh, and Ms. Harris may get some Mother's Day cards (we'll see). But like DWW, we're also seeing a crap ton of ignorant wannabe behaviour, and I predict yet more of it after this film. Just like people dress up like Depp's other characters. After all, if a "cool guy" like Depp can play NDN, complete with Bird on Head, why can't others who "guess" they may have some heritage somewhere back there maybe, or who are "Native in their hearts"? I predict the hipster headdress problem is going to get worse, not better. Thanks, Johnny boy.

Re: Say what Johnny Depp?
« Reply #24 on: June 01, 2012, 08:09:27 pm »
Unfortunately, it's all about the money. Depp is a major star and bound to bring
in the dollars at the box office.

The movie makers are not going to make a movie and not use a major star as the
box office draw.

Now, they could and SHOULD go to every length to depict accurately the
character as a Comanche and should not cut corners there or with any
ndn supporting role of any other tribe.

I probably won't go to see it. I wasn't fond of the series, have no reason
why I'd like a movie of it.


press the little black on silver arrow Music, 1) Bob Pietkivitch Buddha Feet http://www.4shared.com/file/114179563/3697e436/BuddhaFeet.html

Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: Say what Johnny Depp?
« Reply #25 on: June 02, 2012, 11:39:21 am »
Johnny Depp could have put his ego on the shelf and played the Lone Ranger. And hired a Native actor for Tonto. Same box office draw.

Re: Say what Johnny Depp?
« Reply #26 on: June 02, 2012, 06:11:48 pm »
So true Kathryn, so true.  That would have been the best way about it. If it was a choice
he could make? Or was the studio making the casting calls.. have no idea. But he could
have said no, and told them to hire a Native for Tonto. But I'm not sure it's his ego.

Actors like musicians or dancers, or other artists tend to want to strive for roles that
will stretch their abilities.. so, he may have thought it to be a challenge to his art..
and, being ignorant, which obviously he is or he would have said no and suggested a
Native, he accepted it.

I don't know the man's reasons.


« Last Edit: June 02, 2012, 06:18:26 pm by critter - a white non-ndn person »
press the little black on silver arrow Music, 1) Bob Pietkivitch Buddha Feet http://www.4shared.com/file/114179563/3697e436/BuddhaFeet.html

Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: Say what Johnny Depp?
« Reply #27 on: June 03, 2012, 07:29:04 pm »

Offline E.P. Grondine

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Re: Say what Johnny Depp?
« Reply #28 on: June 16, 2012, 01:56:02 am »
The latest news:

http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplaylist/the-lone-ranger-is-over-budget-behind-schedule-with-rewrites-already-underway-20120613

Note the release date, and remember that "Star Wars" was polished up to its release date.

This is all good news.

I'm pretty sure that Depp and Disney will do their very best to insure that this is a very good movie.


Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: Say what Johnny Depp?
« Reply #29 on: June 16, 2012, 09:11:02 pm »
I can think of a lot of far better uses for $250 million than a movie with a white guy playing ndn.

I don't see anything different or encouraging in that article. Just more Hollywood business as usual.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2012, 09:14:44 pm by Kathryn »