Messochwenteme/Wandering Wolf

[windbear]

looking for info on messochwenteme (wandering wolf)lennape living in tenn,wrote 3 books has web sight and claims to know the truth about his peoples culture language ect.has any one read or heard of him?would like to know b-4 I purchase his books.was looking for refrence material about lenni-lenape people.They are the grandfathers were I am living..thanks

[Al's note: retitled the thread.]

[educatedindian]

Here's his site.

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http://www.geocities.com/lenapeculture/
About the Author

I am Mèssochwen Tëme, and I am Lënape-Mohawk-Dutch. I was born and raised in New York, but now reside in western Tennessee with my wife Jeanne Winter Bird (Gesigewei Jipji'j) who is of Mi'kmaq and Passamaquoddy descent.

I have authored, to date, three books about Lënape history and culture which have won high acclaim from Lënape elders, educators, language instructors, museums and universities in New York and Pennsylvania, and have been included in university language databases, as well as teachers resource reference lists. The books have also been used by anthropological societies and linguistics professors in Europe.

The first book, entitled, "The Lënape - Their History and Culture", has gained widespread acceptance from Lënape Elders, museums, universities, and educators, and has been included in teacher's reference resource listings.

The second book is entitled, "Unami - The Language of the Lënape". It is a complete text book on the language of the Lënape, and has been has been well received by Lënape Elders and language instructors. It has been recommended to Cornell University's Olin Library and Native American studies program, is used at Cheyney University, and has been incorporated into the languages database at Millersville University.

My third book is entitled "Lënape Social and Religious Beliefs and Ceremonies". This book is the first study of our traditional ceremonies in nearly 100 years. It describes the origins and protocols of all Lënape ceremonies, both civil and "religious", and also describes many of our beliefs. It is the only book of its kind available today. This book is not available to the general public due to its contents, and the need to protect the sanctity of our ceremonies.

I am also a former writer and editor for Turtle Tracks, a Native American children's e-zine. I also authored the boys' cirriculum for the Grandmother's Wisdomkeepers youth program. This program is a course of study in Native American culture and living skills, which is administered by Wisdomkeepers Inc. in conjunction with various tribal governments. (GWK is based in Knoxville, TN).

My wife and I are members of the Mantle Rock Cultural and Educational Center, which was founded by renown Cherokee Elder Marti (Momfeather) Erickson, and located in Marion, Kentucky. My wife and I work with schools, universities, museums, and youth and other groups, teaching about our culture and history.

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Someone over at Indianz had these comments.

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http://www.indianz.com/board/post.asp?method=ReplyQuote&REPLY_ID=256004&TOPIC_ID=12089&FORUM_ID=5
Mean Old Lenape
first and foremost messochwen teme or shall i say mr. bob davis, i'd like to have the opportunity to speak after such ranting and ravings by you in your overdue replies post. now we shall listen a bit of my stuff as well.

bob before i begin , let me jsut say i think youre a fake. why? simply because you are and the stuff that you speak of in your books proves it. you are a plagarist and copy works from various authors and rewrite them, just a tad to get by and then call them your own. you have copied various things from authors such as herb kraft even. you pawn it off as your own work and then in return when someone tries to quote you or wishes to use yours, like on your website , you simply say , " all of my work is copywritten and cannot be used at all, penalties of law if you use my stuff. " youre so full of yourself. plagarism is using anothers work and not citing othe peoples original ideas. pretty simple eh? yup. did ya skate thru college pagarizing everyones work as well? hmmm, makes ya wonder.

i have read your works bob and frankly i think it's bogus. real lenape people think that your books are deceitful since the ones who dont know any better get confused and are not learning true lenape beliefs, stories and ways. if ya needed some help in your books, couldnt you of easily approached us and say ya need some help?? . we would of helped you in your works im sure..but dammit, they probably arent sure they'd get credit for giving you info. ya probably would of pawned all this info off as youre own. same ol' bob again...

bob, tell me this, if youre a true lenape why do i see such irregularities in your books and websites? on your site it says that there are 12 great laws given by nanapush? what the hell are these 12 laws and how come ive never heard about them? did they mysteriously appear? or maybe is it because i dont believe in the stories of nanpush because he is from anishinabe folklore..not lenape..

secondly, you claim children are named in grand worshipping councils..what the heck is this? ive never seen or attended one of these..am i missing something here.? not so much..! cause i know it is made up. kinda like mr. rogers when he comes in the room, takes off his shoes, puts his sweater on and plays make believe with the kids..

thirdly, your site lists maps of lenapehoking..kinda funny this is relatively a new term and not a real one for the land of the lenape peoples homeland, it was coined by another "real " lenape woman. then, on this other part, your maps include lenape bands in tennessee and idaho, illinois..holy cow, i didnt know we moved around like that..we must of been everywhere ayeee? these are wanna be groups bob, lets not dwell on that too long tho.

fourth, you talk of the three major groups of lenape people in the usa are the western delawares , correct, the delaware tribe of indians in ok, correct again , lastly you say the eastern lenape nation of pennsylvania. let me say this slowly..FALSE!!! youre people are not included with us. how easily you leave out or brothers and sisters the stockbridge / munsee mahicans in wisconsin.. you speak of me not knowing geography, well bob, you obviously dont know much yourself..wisconsin here included, not pennsylvania.

bob your books reviews even state things such as , yes, i'll quote them even...

carl nighteagle
turtle island chautauqua-eastern lenape nation
" the lenape gospel"

doris river bird woman
turtle clan mother-tribal elder of the eastern lenape nation
" it is such a perfect book...this is as exciting as the birth of a new baby".

fifth, im sorry teme , but the people who reviewed your book and made comments werent people who hold much weight in this delaware community. we laugh at that stuff and frankly i do appreciate all the works ya done, writing and having your work published is not an easy task. cheers to ya..it does give us "true " lenape people something to poke fun at and laugh at together when we have functions and such, we'd like to post comments on your book reviews like the 2 others i wrote of. will you let us critique your work on your website? id like to give it a shot.id give those two people who posted reviews on your books as much weight as my dogs' stool sample bob.

sixth, tell everyone here of the group that you endorse and belong to in hot springs arkansas. the manataka group. the same people who preformed your wedding there with your wife "white owl". this group charges people for membership, the dues are $ 25 dollars and year , and you can get a membership card, but it wil $ 10 donation please. woman have to pay $ 2 to attend a womans council meeting.
with your membership your get a certificate, with a made up ndn name , no doubt, you get a wallet id card, discounts and free passes, subscription to the newsletter, copy of the official manataka constitution, and full voting right into their group. wheeww. wow, that better than home shopping network ennit? " where do i sign up? "

still with the manataka, they say there is no blood quantum required by them, and also no geneaology to submit. perfect opportunity for the wanna bes to be some belong to bes. what a transformation. all of a sudden everyones indian . all with names like "two eagles", "silent bear" ,and " many hearts" . " swift fox pisses on sumac tree as he runs by.." tell who rainbow woman is, does she truely make all people with ill intentions leave the park? she lays feathers at your feet yet ? somehow i dont see her or it happening .
the website says. that " manataka is the holiest site in the american indian community, making it the first federal reservation". whoa. so it is kinda like bear butte then huh?

the closing words on the website is " wakan tanka niya washte pelo"
looks like lakota to me..alot of pan - indian things included in there as well.

so messochwen teme youre name dropper too eh/ well let me tell you what i think about that ..it's silly really. ask the shawnees in ohio and the black elk families in virginia? people from the cheyenne sundance in ok, firstly i wouldnt merely mention you all to anyone around there, i'd be ashamed at the looks i would get, hell i probably get rocks thrown at me.i wouldnt wish to be associated with people like you and doris. black elks? this family only carries weight with some ndn's and alot of rainbow people. personally , i dont believe in his teachings.. i lived up north for a number of years and know alot of lakota, nez perce, yakimas, bloods. and the ones ive met , think black elks teachings are full of carp.think hes a complete sham..one color, one race.. they dont believe in the rainbow tribe.. and you usin walter black elks name , it goes to show indians who knows that you associate with other people more interested in making a quick dollar, whats worse, the person doing this to the general public who dont know any better or the poor fool who gets involved with all of it and really, truely does believe it? i already know of that group in virginia as well. i had an ojibwe friend of mine be asked to come to a sundance in either maryland or virginia with the said group, he loudly said not ony " no" , but " hell no!! " he knew of the family you mentioned previously..he knows the medicine that accompanies them..and the types of people it brings. ( this is just his observation, it is one i would consider truthfull, and one i would never doubt ) .so you dropping their names shows your ignorance.. try droppin someones name a little more influential to real indians will ya..try some real people who are respected for doing real things in the lenape communities. if ya can do that hell, " i'll be impressed.."

teme ,youre got me all confused.. you are claiming to be mohawk and lenape, and dutch..dutch i can see cause i can look at your pictures of ya in action. . but as far as mohawk, are your registered with them new york boys? ya sure aint with any of us lenapes here...so really , who are you with ?, where do you belong and where do you fit in this grand scheme of things? we still dont know bob davis. aka messochwen teme .we are still trying to figure all this out. , im done wasting my breath. real people know the truth already and those that are not with it, know now..

[educatedindian]

Review of his book, pulling apart one inaccuracy after another.

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http://forum.americanindiantribe.com/archive/o_t__t_416__book-review-the-lenape-their-history-and-culture.html

THE LENAPE: THEIR HISTORY AND CULTURE, by Messochwen Teme, Finley, TN, 2002, may be characterized as a 315-page handbook, or manual, of neo-Lenapeism." I use the term, "neo-Lenape," to designate those self-proclaimed "Lenape" groups which sprung up, mainly in Pennsylvania and Ohio, during the 1970's; whose members created for themselves a "history" and "culture" which freely borrowed themes and practices from many unrelated Indian tribes, and has only the most tenuous connection to genuine Lenape history and culture. I use "neo-Lenape"–instead of "pseudo-Lenape"–only because "SOME" of these folks "MAY" have real Lenape ancestry–though proof of this is seldom, if ever, forthcoming.

The author, Robert Davis, begins with an account of his ancestors' lives in Moravian missionary settlements of New York, between 1830 and 1920. This presents an immediate puzzlement, since the Moravians gave up their missionary work with the Iroquois during the French and Indian War, in the mid-1700's; and, the last Moravian mission to the Delaware Indians, in the U.S.A., ended in 1821, in Goshen, Ohio.

Next, Davis tells us that he received the name, "Messochwen Teme," from "tribal elders" of the Eastern Lenape Nation of Pennsylvania. I have no doubt that this is true, because the name is composed of words drawn from both Northern Unami and Southern Unami sources. It is ungrammatical and reminiscent of those names chosen for themselves by Boy Scouts in the Order of the Arrow. This is typical of the "Indian names" given to people in Pennsylvania, in the past 30 years or so. "Messochwen" ('wandering') is an animate intransitive verb with an indefinite subject. It can't be used as an adjective, to describe the noun, "Teme" ('wolf'). It should have been put in the form of a participle, for this purpose. Thus, the proper Northern Unami form would be "Messochwet Metimmeu."

Believe it or not, "MT" (as he calls himself) tells us, on page 3, that, for the Indians of the East Coast, "there was no such thing as a reservation during the colonial period or the early years of the United States. Not even the concept of a reservation existed at that time in history." In his research, "MT" must have missed the facts that Indian Reservations existed in colonial Connecticut, New York, New Jersey and Virginia! And also, that they continued to exist, in those eastern states, long after the Revolutionary War. AND, that many of them have continued to exist, right up to TODAY! The Scaghticoke Reservation, in Connecticut, has been continually inhabited by descendants of Lenape-speaking people, since its founding in the colonial period! (By the way, the Scaghticokes are a federally-recognized tribe.)

On page 5, "MT" says that "the early missions sought to destroy the 'Indian' identity and to 'make white men out of them.' On page 51, "MT" attributes this saying to David Zeisberger, of all people! It is beyond belief that the man who lived among the Delaware Indians for more than fifty years, was adopted by them, served on the Great Council of the Delaware Nation, learned the Lenape language and taught and wrote in it, and treated EVERYONE the same, would have said anything like this! And, of course, he didn't! This statement was actually made by the founder of the Carlisle Indian Industrial School, which had NO connection with the Moravians.

Pages 11-30 reprint the same incredible creation story found in Treebeard's work, THE GRANDFATHERS SPEAK. In fact, this is Treebeard's version, as is evidenced by the use of the same faulty Lenape words made-up by Treebeard! Little of it can be attributed to Lenape beliefs. The main character, throughout, is the Ojibway culture-hero, "Nanapush," who was unknown in Lenape tradition.

Pages 34-43 deal with Rafinesque's ridiculous fraud, the Walam Olum. "MT" presents some pros and cons regarding the work's authenticity, but doesn't take a stand, either way.

On pages 50-52, the author returns to another rant against the "Moravians" of his imagination (as opposed to the Moravians of history). In his imagination, the Moravians "originated in Germany."
In REALITY, the Moravians originated in Czechoslovakia. In his imagination, the Moravians "gained widespread influence throughout Europe, and especially in Holland." In REALITY, the Moravians were a very tiny sect with little influence outside their homeland. In his imagination, the Moravians "established many missions throughout 'New Netherlands.'" In REALITY, the Moravians didn't emigrate to the Western Hemisphere until the 18th Century–many decades after the fall of "New Netherlands" to the English! In his imagination, the Moravians "forced" Lenapes to become "Mission Indians," and their mission settlements "were little more than slave camps." In REALITY, the Moravians were strict pacifists, who NEVER "forced" any Indian to live in their mission towns. "MT" complains that the "Mission Indians" had to "abandon" their traditional beliefs, and "attend Christian services," and live the farming life of the Moravians. Well, DUH! In his imagination, the Moravians kept missions in southern New York until the 1930's! In REALITY, the last New York Indian mission, at Wechquadnach (Dutchess County) was closed in 1753! There was only ever ONE other New York Indian mission–at Shekomeko (Dutchess County). That was closed in 1744!

Pages 61-121 reprint various historical treaties involving the Lenape. This is actually a handy compendium, for those who do not have access to these documents from other sources.

On page 134, "MT" lists the word, "O:neh" ('Goodbye'), as Lenape. It's NOT. This is a Tuscarora word.
On page 143, "MT" gives a politically-correct narrative on the treatment of Lenape prisoners. He just can't bring himself to say that some prisoners were tortured to death, by the most exquisite means. The worst he can come up with is that some sustained "a severe....even horrific beating."

155-158 is Treebeard's story of "How the Pipe Came to the Lenape." It's more about "Nanapush," "the Fire of Peace," and other non-Lenape imports.

The next sections are about dances and games. These appear to be okay. Davis's works are always only as good as his sources. Unfortunately, he employs both good and bad sources, between which he seems unable to discriminate.

184-210 contain what he calls "the Twelve Laws." On page 221, he tells us that these 12 Laws were given to the Lenape "by Nanpush after he created the new world." Each law has a pictographic representation. Where these came from is not stated; but, they're certainly NOT Lenape. These 12 Laws are either borrowed from some other tribe, or invented by someone, recently. The Lenape words for the laws are derived from Moravian dictionaries, but put into a new spelling system. The transition to this new orthography was not always kind to the original, authentic words!

212-217 deals with "Mesingw" and "Misinkhalikan" (as written here). It's all from Treebeard, and says that Mesingw is "Big Foot" or "Sasquatch." This is an idea which I have never heard expressed by a REAL Lenape!

On page 220, "MT" lists several names for God, in "European and Asian religions." Among these, he includes "Hosanna," "Mohammed" and "Buddha." The first is a shout of praise, the second the entirely human prophet of Islam, and the last is Siddhartha Gautama, the founder of Buddhism. None of these are "God"!

On 222, "MT" tells us that the rabbit is a sacred animal among the Lenape. "We cannot kill nor eat it." This is NOT true. The rabbit was taboo for the Mohicans, but not for the Lenape. The Lenape considered the rabbit a "champion liar."

On 223, he says that "Dream catchers were originated by the Lenape." This is simply not true. They originated with the Ojibway.

228-232 lists "Spirit Beings," a few of which have NOTHING to do with Lenape beliefs. The Lenape have NO "Father Sun," "Grandmother Moon," "Nanapush" or "Great Toad."

The remainder of this work (pp.234-313) consists of various authentic Lenape and "neo-Lenape" stories. Those from Nora Thompson Dean, Richard C. Adams and John Bierhorst are authentic. The rest are either newly made-up or borrowed from other tribes; or, in some cases, embellished and distorted versions of authentic tales. Most of these are from Treebeard, so I refer you to my review of his book, THE GRANDFATHERS SPEAK, for commentary on them.

Messochwen Teme's work is, as we have seen, part-traditional and part-"neo-Lenape." It's not my "cup of tea," but it's a nice manual for all those new "Lenape Indians" that have sprung up in the past thirty years, as well as all the sycophantic Whites in their entourages, who fawn upon them. As one Eastern Lenape Nation elder put it: "This is great.......the Lenape Gospel." Whatever...

Ray Whritenour
LENAPE TEXTS & STUDIES

[Superdog]

Went through his site.  The previous critics are right about his information.  He weaves in little threads of truth through some outright misinformation.  His take on language groupings is one of the most original.  Pretty much he claims the Lenape came through the Bering Strait and are responsible for all the different language groupings out there.  Keep in mind that he threw out the Athabaskan language group completely to make this seem feasible and says these tribes are part of the Algonquin language group and that all languages evolve from one common ancestral tribe...
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from his site:
http://www.geocities.com/lenapeculture/algonkian.html

THE ALGONKIAN FAMILY

The Native American nations are divided into large groups based on language, called linguistic families. The languages spoken by the nations within each these groupings all evolved from a common root language, giving rise to the belief that they evolved from a common ancestral tribe. There are six base Native American linguistic families: Algonkian, Siouan, Penutian, Nadene, Aztec-Tanoan, and Eskimo-Aluet. Some of these have sub-groupings, or branches, as well.

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It just goes on from there.....he makes some pretty obviously outlandish claims and this is just the start of it in his description of the "Algonkian Family".  He names many tribes or tribal groups by name as breaking off from the original ancestral tribe and evolving into their own tribe including Salish, Cheyenne, Arapaho, Blackfeet, etc.

He's got several contradictions of what he says and then there's the obvious mistakes such as stating that "Buddha" is one of the white man's religious names for God.  (I think he might be surprised to learn the story of Siddhartha Gautama and his distaste for organized religion and the idea of God or Gods.  His philosophy (not a religion) is that Life is suffering and if you accept the Noble Truths and follow the Eightfold Path you may find your way out of suffering into enlightenment.) 

It just goes on and on....I hope his works don't make it into classrooms, but any professor worth their weight should easily spot his misinformation.  In my opinion the Lenape tribes should sue the guy for attempting to represent their tribal history and getting it soooooo wrong without any references or permission from the tribe.  I mean his books have titles like "The Lënape - Their History and Culture" and they contain wrong information.  He doesn't reference anywhere in the title that his work is based on information from himself.  There does seem to be some plagiaristic undertones as well.

Superdog

[windbear]

thank you all for your responses,In an e-mail correspondance with him he had said there were no lenape people here in n.j and no language no cerimonies swet lodges ect,I allowed him to put doubt in to what I have learned living here my entire life and all the lenape history that is prevelant here and documented.Glad I wrote about this b-4 he got my $$$ for his books.If anyone knows of good research material on the lenape in n.w newjersey I would appreciat it.

[earthw7]

I have to say this there are NO Books that can tell you about Native people.

[Synapsis]

just popping in to say that anyone associated with mana-madeup-taka... my first cousin Randy Lee "little weasel" Moore's Cult is either working a scam or being scammed... seriously.... Randy likes to call himself Lee "Standing Bear" Moore... and the sad sorry truth is that i am fairly certain are related to Standing Bear... my Grandfather Washington's uncle... but that does not make Randy any less of a thieving scamming necromancing weasel... in fact the way i was taught is that in all cultures there are those who take the sacred and use it for self gain profit and evil... lots of the people on the fraud lists i am coming to realize are genetically "of native blood" doesn't make them any less evil... i mean honestly blood does not determine a persons integrity... it is the soul within the body that does that....

yeppers... anyway if you got 25 bucks you too can be a member of Little Weasels Engine Nation.... and you know i gotta say that in all honesty if all you all "real indians" spent more time educating people and less time behaving in an antagonistic fashion... i.e. "outting fake" ... well then it would not be such easy pickens for people like Randy Lee... because the sad sorry truth is that there are alot of people who get involved with cultish crap because there is no real alternative... i know ... i went to all the "real indians" and no one listened to me till i pretended to be one of you all... which i am... sort of... i mean i have studied the medicine of the earth my entire life... and i know more about it then most of the "real indians" i have met... and i have found that those who do know about it will teach me and that i can help them... my grandpaw J used to say.. "reservations are concentration camps... " and his generation mostly just "passed" .... but he told me... that if people registered they would take their children and take their medicine... they sent my mother to boarding school and to this day she still wakes in the night screaming... 60+ years later... and still despite that they taught us... or tryed to... i was the only girl except for second cousins... and they were all dark skin and dark haired ... and christian.... and thought herbs and snakes and wolves and birds and dirt to plant things in was gross and that i was a freak for wanting to be with the old people... and they hated me because of the color of my  hair and because the boys liked me... and they still hate me... and now they are all... part of randys little indian cult... and the saddest part of it is that they do not walk the medicine way... and i wonder if any of you truely do... because pointing fingers and having pissing contests... which is what this is is not the medicine way....

and don't get me wrong... last time i was here i was full of rage... i was struggling to keep hate from infecting my soul... and i did that by walking away... by allowing those who are not as i think they should be to be as they are... and to instead study and become myself as more as i would have them be...

and i see that now too.... mr. educated indian has come to the same conclusion.... to some degree...

but truely i think that unless you yourself walk the medicine way you have no right to comment on others ....

hehehhehe.... still... we made that whole thing up out there in the back by the creek in the summer.... heheheh... mana-madeup-taka....

much love

[Superdog]

just popping in to say that anyone associated with mana-madeup-taka... my first cousin Randy Lee "little weasel" Moore's Cult is either working a scam or being scammed... seriously.... Randy likes to call himself Lee "Standing Bear" Moore... and the sad sorry truth is that i am fairly certain are related to Standing Bear... my Grandfather Washington's uncle... but that does not make Randy any less of a thieving scamming necromancing weasel... in fact the way i was taught is that in all cultures there are those who take the sacred and use it for self gain profit and evil... lots of the people on the fraud lists i am coming to realize are genetically "of native blood" doesn't make them any less evil... i mean honestly blood does not determine a persons integrity... it is the soul within the body that does that....

yeppers... anyway if you got 25 bucks you too can be a member of Little Weasels Engine Nation.... and you know i gotta say that in all honesty if all you all "real indians" spent more time educating people and less time behaving in an antagonistic fashion... i.e. "outting fake" ... well then it would not be such easy pickens for people like Randy Lee... because the sad sorry truth is that there are alot of people who get involved with cultish crap because there is no real alternative... i know ... i went to all the "real indians" and no one listened to me till i pretended to be one of you all... which i am... sort of... i mean i have studied the medicine of the earth my entire life... and i know more about it then most of the "real indians" i have met... and i have found that those who do know about it will teach me and that i can help them... my grandpaw J used to say.. "reservations are concentration camps... " and his generation mostly just "passed" .... but he told me... that if people registered they would take their children and take their medicine... they sent my mother to boarding school and to this day she still wakes in the night screaming... 60+ years later... and still despite that they taught us... or tryed to... i was the only girl except for second cousins... and they were all dark skin and dark haired ... and christian.... and thought herbs and snakes and wolves and birds and dirt to plant things in was gross and that i was a freak for wanting to be with the old people... and they hated me because of the color of my  hair and because the boys liked me... and they still hate me... and now they are all... part of randys little indian cult... and the saddest part of it is that they do not walk the medicine way... and i wonder if any of you truely do... because pointing fingers and having pissing contests... which is what this is is not the medicine way....

and don't get me wrong... last time i was here i was full of rage... i was struggling to keep hate from infecting my soul... and i did that by walking away... by allowing those who are not as i think they should be to be as they are... and to instead study and become myself as more as i would have them be...

and i see that now too.... mr. educated indian has come to the same conclusion.... to some degree...

but truely i think that unless you yourself walk the medicine way you have no right to comment on others ....

hehehhehe.... still... we made that whole thing up out there in the back by the creek in the summer.... heheheh... mana-madeup-taka....

much love

Hello Synapsis.  Welcome.  You're right about the soul of a person in my opinion.  Blood doesn't make you a good person.  It's how you live.  Thanks for the info you presented here.

I notice you still have a bit of a chip on your shoulder about some things.  You've done well to let a lot of that go and I'll only say this and maybe it will help you a little getting rid of that....  When it comes to knowledge about "earth medicine" (my language calls it something different and the concept is different than this English translation, but we're referring to the same thing) the only thing we truly learn about is what is around us...where we live.  If I took you out of your home and brought you up north to mine, you would have trouble figuring out how to live (that is without modern convenience) and someone would have to show you, what's ok to eat, what's not..etc etc, just as if the reverse happened and you took me down to your home...I wouldn't know how to live.  That's why this board says and I'm in complete agreement, that the concept of Native spirituality (or medicine way...still the same thing) is communal, tribal specific and tied to the land.  The last part is the most important part I think you might wanna let sink in....in the face of the Earth...we're all little specks of dust...meaning we're all the same....all humble and part of something bigger.  You're only truly an expert on the parts of the Earth you live on or have lived on, but you can't possibly live everywhere and know everything about every climate and geology here on this planet.  Tribal cultures are in large part built on these unique differences in geology in climate and they change sometimes in very short distances from each other...that's why some tribes were masters at farming while right next door the next villages of people only hunted and gathered because the climate and geology didn't allow for successful farming and as you'd imagine....these two people's that lived almost next door to each other were often very different culturally...and the spirituality practices also very different.  So when you talk about offering an alternative for people searching and lost....I just don't think that's a viable solution.  None of us here on this board agree on what spiritual practices are the "right way".  What we agree on is not lumping them together to make a homogenous "Native teachings Church"....it's just not a real way  to look at things and so we pass information along and discuss the people who would use what our ancestors died fighting to protect for their own personal gain...sometimes committing atrocious crimes on the way all in the name of one tribe or another's spiritual practices...and skewing and leading astray people not unlike yourself, who only want to be happy. 

I hope you can let that go.  There's no "Real Indians" because we're not "Indians".  We're just members of communities and real people like yourself...sometimes we all make mistakes and if some Native folks treated you badly...that's on them and it'll come back on them...let it go.  The labels don't matter to the soul as you put it....blood doesn't make you a good person.  I think in the long run you'll find more agreement than not here if you keep approaching it that way....there's just that little bit where you want to make everyone here responsible for bad things that have happened to you....let me just say....none of us have even met you, so you know that can't be true.

Superdog

[NanticokePiney]

  MEH! "Wondering Wolf". He's trying to weasel his way into Bob Ruth's "Lenape Nation". They are looking for a "body count" to fatten their membership so it just might/have/maybe happened.