NAFPS Forum

Odds and Ends => Etcetera => Topic started by: NDN_Outlaw on November 10, 2009, 12:58:14 am

Title: A step beyond the board
Post by: NDN_Outlaw on November 10, 2009, 12:58:14 am
I'm a sessional teaching an Indigenous Studies class. I find it annoying when students cite dubious sources in their papers. A lot of this is New Age gibberish, Shaman stuff. Sun Bear's Medicine Wheel book or Lynne Andrews flights of fantasy becomes a source. Some are incredulous when I explain to them that the medicine Wheel concept is a new non Cree concept. There is not only a pan Indian trail mix spirituality but also this New Age Shaman b.s. becoming more accepted. The old Cree stuff must be constantly maintained and corrected. Not everyone's spirituality is Lakota Sioux. I notice a lot of the shaman baloney is also in our University library. I think it would be good if this site could not only provide a list of shameless Shaman books but also provide sticker templates via computer that could be easily printed and stuck to the library books not only here but where they're sold. Wouldn't it be neat if Indigo Books for example put a sticker from this site on NDNZ saying something like. "Doubtfull Authenticity" or "Culturally fraudulant"  Then in smaller letters, NAFPS. 
Title: Re: A step beyond the board
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on November 10, 2009, 02:29:52 am
That would be great!  Oh, I do recall Lynne Andrews.. bleh.  It was given to me, I never finished it, I couldn't get past the corny-ness.  Same with this Mary Summer Rain, I think it was.. another that someone gave to me, that I couldn't finish.  The only thing I remember of either is that they were corny beyond belief and how could anyone believe that?

I'd love to be putting stickers on books. Give me a list, give me some stickers...  I'm ready to go.
Title: Re: A step beyond the board
Post by: Defend the Sacred on November 10, 2009, 02:34:50 am
Some AIDS activists did something like this when a misleading book about AIDS came out in the eighties. The Surgeon General denounced the book so we made stickers with a Surgeon General's Warning, followed by a quote from the surgeon general about how this book could be hazardous to their health. Like the warnings on cigarettes. It was good to have something to do with those books.

Also, when I'm in libraries and bookstores, I turn the covers of the good books out, displaying them prominently. And one can also make the crap books harder to find.  8)
Title: Re: A step beyond the board
Post by: educatedindian on November 10, 2009, 02:41:16 pm
When I'm in a bookstore it's my habit to move the Nuage books he naive employees have put in the NDN section to the Nuage section.

I once stumbled upon a book in a public library that someone had put their own handwritten sticker just inside the cover, three of four sentences explaining it was false and offensive.

Perhaps people can suggest a very brief all purpose statement that can be pasted on the majority of shame on books?

And I realize it's a lot of work, but we can start a compilation of all the fraudulent books in this thread.
Title: Re: A step beyond the board
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on November 10, 2009, 05:24:24 pm
Sure, first on the list:  The Secret.

Have to figure how many words can be used on the sticker.  Something like, The material in this book is not authentic.  ?  That's a little lame ..  perhaps something more harsh.  To jolt a person into doubting that it's a good idea to read it .
Title: Re: A step beyond the board
Post by: Unegv Waya on February 02, 2010, 05:51:18 pm
Sunbear's Medicine Wheel - oh yes, I've come across that all over the place.  I've tried to explain to many about the conference of over 40 nations that occurred at the university at Lethbridge (sp?) back in the early 80s and how the results were twisted into what most call a medicine wheel.  Some just don't get it while others do.  Those who do are usually thankful for the information while those who don't will go to great lengths to try and prove it is a valid NDN teaching.

What is perhaps the worst, in my eyes anyway, is that the medicine wheel idea does contain some true information.  As NDN Outlaw points out, however, it is a mix of several traditions and that mix is being presented as a pan-american NDN teaching that just does not exist.

It is a real shame as I understand that the purpose of that initial conference was to gather together some common values that could be compiled for the purpose of assisting in the rebuilding of native communities both on and off the rez.  Then the organizer, one Phil Lane (International Coordinator, Four Worlds International Institute for Human and Community Development) compiled and copyrighted the results for sale.  So much for any real interest or supposed respect he had for those who attended.
 
Title: Re: A step beyond the board
Post by: nemesis on May 22, 2010, 07:18:43 pm
What an interesting thread!

I hope this is not too much of a tangent but I was wondering about what we could to to address the issue of academics who promote frauds and supports sects and cults?

Academics have a very privileged place in society as they influence national, and sometimes international, policies and legislation.  They serve as expert witnesses in courts of law and therefore when academics are corrupt, stupid or perhaps just naive, the consequences can be very serious.

I have a few academics in mind, but one that recently came to my attention is Professor Peter Reason (ironic name or what?) of the University of Bath, UK.


Link to a paper written by Prof. Reason, Reflections on Sacred Experience and Sacred Science: Reason, P. (1993). Reflections on Sacred Experience and Sacred Science. Journal of Management Inquiry, 2(3), 273-283

http://people.bath.ac.uk/mnspwr/Papers/SACRED.htm

from the paper....


Quote
Personal experiences

My growing concern for the quality of sacredness has developed as I have explored shamanic paths and learned particularly from the Medicine Wheel teachings (Storm 1972; see also Note 1).
..........


Quote
Note 1. By Medicine Wheel teachings I mean that version of the sacred teachings of Native Americans that has become available to white people through books such as Seven Arrows (Storm, 1972) and the workshops and ceremonies conducted by those native, metis, and white teachers with whom I have had contact. I am sensitive to the need when speaking of the teachings of an indigenous people like the Native Americans to acknowledge both that the teachings are wide and diverse between different tribes; that I am not a Native American and cannot claim their experience; and that some Native American groups and organizations object strongly to white people using (they would say abusing) their traditional teachings. Nevertheless I wish to give thanks for the beauty that these teachings have brought to my life, and acknowledge with gratitude and respect the sources; in particular I wish to thank Arwyn Dreamwalker and members of the Dreamweavers Morningstar Lodge.


The really scary thing is that this man is a professor in a repeatable university who is referencing frauds and predators in his academic papers!  His references list reputable sources such as Mazlow and R.D Laing alongside people like H. Storm (according to a thread here a serial rapist and sexual abuser of children) and Carlos Castaneda.  He makes a special point of thanking Arwyn Dreamwalker, another fraud who is a member of the notorious "deer tribe" of Harley Reagan's, who as we all know promote the sexual abuse of minors as part of their depraved initiation rites for adolescents.

In the paper, EDUCATION FOR ECOLOGY: Science, aesthetics, spirit and ceremony
link http://people.bath.ac.uk/mnspwr/Thoughtpieces/EducationForEcology.htm

Reason's references include credible heavyweights like Mary Midgley and Merleau-Ponty but also, tucked away amongst the other reference is this:

Storm, H. (1972). Seven Arrows. New York: Harper & Row.

Just for the record, H Storm is the predator named in this thread
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=899.0

and also here

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?action=printpage;topic=227.0


Here is Prof. reason's page at Bath University

http://www.bath.ac.uk/management/faculty/peter_reason.html#book_chapters

He seems to be an academic of some repute and yet his papers, well this one at least, are referenced with notorious frauds.

Even more ironic than his name is the fact that his special interest is in the field of "co-operative inquiry", described in a paper he co-authored here
 http://people.bath.ac.uk/mnspwr/Papers/Heron&Reason%20.htm

in the following way.....

Quote
Co-operative inquiry is a way of working with other people who have similar concerns and interests to yourself, in order to:

·      Understand your world, make sense of your life and develop new and creative ways of looking at things.

·      Learn how to act to change things you may want to change and find out how to do things better

So his specialty is in consulting with others in order to understand how to do things better.  

I have no problem with this at all except that one would hope that Reason would demonstrate an element of discernment in relation to the people he consults with.

Also interesting is this

Quote
Professors Peter Reason and Judi Marshall, and Dr Gill Coleman are the founding energies behind the pioneering MSc in Responsibility and Business Practice at Bath University Management School. Peter’s inaugural lecture Justice, Sustainability & Participation makes the bold case for radical shifts in academia’s orientation towards teaching both business and sustainability subjects.
(emphasis mine)
from here
http://www.oikos-uk.com/influencesnetwork.html

Surely the best way to promote responsible business practice is to take great care to reference only credible papers / sources in one's academic work and not the literary turds deposited by frauds and predators?

I would very much like to do something to draw Prof. Reason's attention to the error of his ways.  Would anyone mind if I invited him to check out the forums here in general and this thread in particular?  In the spirit of "co-operative inquiry" of course.
Title: Re: A step beyond the board
Post by: Juliet on November 18, 2010, 12:57:13 am
Academic credentials are no protection against falling for frauds.  This is the best case for many of these people.

We know what the worst case is.  And a scholar who doesn't care should be stripped of his credentials.
Title: Re: A step beyond the board
Post by: Hair lady on March 10, 2011, 11:26:35 am
well I don´t know many real medicine people who have written books about thier experiences...So I guess I would suggest finding and giving your students a list of books written by real medicine peoples. As a teacher it is your responsability to teach the truth. People need guidance in these types of things.  I am sure that it would take you time to find good books since Native tradtion is mostly oral..But it is possiable.

Title: Re: A step beyond the board
Post by: Camilla on March 10, 2011, 01:58:59 pm
a list of books written by real medicine peoples.

books written by real medicine people??? hhmmm... :-\ doesn't sound good
books are usually written to be sold......and in my opinion this idea of "business" doesn't go along well with "real medicine people"

Anyway, in my opinion there are dozens of topics which can help acquire true, realistic information about Native People cultures, beyond stereotypes and lies, WITHOUT mentioning Those Things which must be kept private.
You can talk and read about geography, history, sociology, social science, politics, pedagogy, arts, technology etc. etc. etc. without intruding in Those topics.

Nice day to everybody
Title: Re: A step beyond the board
Post by: Hair lady on March 10, 2011, 02:32:42 pm
books written, for example by chief Arvol Looking Horse...just one example of who I would call a real medicine person.

real as opposed to fake, fraud, ect....

and once again as a teacher a person has to be resonsiable for what they teach thier students nad in my opinion should research things to thier full extent before teaching them.  Since most Native tradtions are passed own oraly it is hard to find good books.

Title: Re: A step beyond the board
Post by: Hair lady on March 10, 2011, 02:47:42 pm
oh and I also have to say it seems that nonnative people have a thing for Native spirituality, as if that is what we do all day long..run around and have ceremony. I have found, living in Europe, that a lot of people have a Hollywood version of how Natives are. Good point that there are other things that people could learn about us...
 :)
Title: Re: A step beyond the board
Post by: Camilla on March 10, 2011, 03:07:44 pm
As I said, from my point of view if one is sincerely interested in Native Cultures there are thousands of interesting, wonderful things to learn WITHOUT involving Topics and People that Native People themselves prefere to keep private.
More than ever, if school teaching is involved. In any case, Those Things should be the very last one to be read about after reading and learning all the other things (and of course, yes I agree: witnesses from Arvol Looking Horse or Fools Crow are extremely precious)
As I said, just my opinion
Title: Re: A step beyond the board
Post by: snorks on March 10, 2011, 03:39:32 pm
 I read all those books and still have some as examples of creative thinking and writing.  What I tell people, that as "White Westerners", we are used to gaining information from books.  Other cultures use different means of conveying knowledge.  If you find a book written by a "Native sounding person" such as Brooke Medicine Eagle, they are not usually Native.  They are writing for a White audience, and write in that millieu to sell books for those people. 

Medicine Eagle writes more of New Age things sprinkled with nature and Native ideas.  For people who have no desire to go deeper, she sounds profound.  I tell people that if you find ideas such as astrology etc that you are familiar with, then the book is not written by a credible source.  Also look at who they refer to, and look them up.

The only books that I know of that give any glimpse into Native cultures are the ones that discuss myths and legends.  But they are written from an outsider's point of view.  So the answer is usually no, since various Native cultures prefer not to discuss certain information with outsiders for various reasons.
Title: Re: A step beyond the board
Post by: Hair lady on March 10, 2011, 04:13:10 pm
what I always find kinds of disturbing is when you take collage level courses on  Native Americans and the professor always talks about us in the past tense...It was like that when I was in collage with the exception of whne I learned how to speak Navajo..the professor was from that nation, and spoke in the present tense... I wonder why that is, and when I took other courses, I always felt like jumping up and screaming HELLLLOOOOOOOOOO still alive!

Anyone else feel that way?

Sorry getting off track...
Title: Re: A step beyond the board
Post by: Camilla on March 10, 2011, 04:40:11 pm
Hair Lady, something I think to be very funny and very silly (and sad) in the same time and could be related to your last post is the following: here in Italy reporters who write in the newspapers and magazines about news or event relevant to Native People, often refers to them NOT as Lakotas, Cheyenne, Apache (or whatever), BUT as the "descendants" of the Lakota, Cheyenne, Apache (or whatever) People......as someone talking about people from Rome nowadays would define them not simply "Romans" but "descendants of the Romans".......crazy.

Unfortunately this is one more evidence that Native People (especially Natives from North America) are alive only in a "fantasy dimension" for many Europeans (together with a lot of stereotypes): many Europeans seem not to realize that Native People are real people, eating, sleeping, loving, hating, studying, working, laughing, crying NOW, IN 2011 as any other human being......this denial of humanity, reality, actuality of Native People is one of the worst things: that's why it's so important that to talk about Native Cultures, Native People (those who are serious and reliable of course, and willing to) are given the chance to speak in person
Sorry getting off track too....
Title: Re: A step beyond the board
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on March 10, 2011, 05:14:21 pm
hair lady.. a teacher can tell their student truth by telling them that true medicine people don't
write books. that will help a student a lot in staying away from the fake muck that is out there
and help keep their minds free of it.
Title: Re: A step beyond the board
Post by: Teacher on March 10, 2011, 09:51:19 pm
As a teacher -- not an Amerindian Studies teacher however, I feel the same as some of you.  Know your sources and verify.  We owe it to our students.  I would NOT teach spirituality in class -- just as I do not teach religion in my French/Spanish classes. 

Georges Sioui has several books out that are autohistories -- meaning, books written about First Nations people BY a First Nation person.  There are many authors who are Native that write about Native issues, history and culture.  They do not throw spirituality or ceremony into the texts.

As for professors, I have seen and heard professors that have guest speakers go to their classes to help teach.  Some have been great, others not so much.  The most horrific example of this that I've seen is a couple who went into a classroom and told the students that they could help them find their totem animals by using a deck of cards -- and pulled out the Medicine Wheel cards!

The best example is from when I was at Saskatchewan Indian Federated College (now First Nations University).  We had the elders come from the different reserves and talk to us -- through a translator.  Very good stuff there.  Their stories were incredible!   Because it was an All-Indian university (with a few non-Natives too) we had pipe ceremonies run by the elders in a private room on campus.   I'm not from a pipe culture, but I understand the importance and value so when invited to go, I went. 

That's another stereotype -- ALL Natives/Indians/Amerindians/First Nations have a pipe ceremony ... not so.
Title: Re: A step beyond the board
Post by: Hair lady on March 18, 2011, 03:26:41 pm
I am not a teacher and any ceremonies I know are for me and my family and people. The fact is there is no one right way. If there was and it brought us all peace that would be great but it´s not how things work. A class room is just not the place to learn about spiritual things. HOWEVER you can learn about herbs, and western medicine there, which are also obviously very important. And history, if there is any way to learn the exacte truth in that matter...well I guess not because we were not there.



Title: Re: A step beyond the board
Post by: tecpaocelotl on March 18, 2011, 05:25:20 pm
Also, when I'm in libraries and bookstores, I turn the covers of the good books out, displaying them prominently. And one can also make the crap books harder to find.  8)

I usually put it int he middle of the book shelves if there are no back to it, but if there's a back to the bookshelf, I usually just hide it behind the other books.

I once stumbled upon a book in a public library that someone had put their own handwritten sticker just inside the cover, three of four sentences explaining it was false and offensive.

Perhaps people can suggest a very brief all purpose statement that can be pasted on the majority of shame on books?

Reminds me of the time I posted sticky notes correcting errors on Idiot's Guide on Native American History.

Sure, first on the list:  The Secret.

Have to figure how many words can be used on the sticker.  Something like, The material in this book is not authentic.  ?  That's a little lame ..  perhaps something more harsh.  To jolt a person into doubting that it's a good idea to read it .

With that book, you would put:

Warning: May cause illogical thinking.

More books to the list:

From Miguel Ruiz:
The Four Agreements
The Fifth Agreement
The Mastery of Love
Four Agreements Companion Book
The Voice of Knowledge
Prayers: A Communion with Our Creator

Carlos Castaneda:
The Teachings of Don Juan
A Separate Reality
Journey to Ixtlan
Tales of Power
The Second Ring of Power
The Eagle's Gift
The Fire From Within
The Power of Silence
The Art of Dreaming
Magical Passes
The Active Side of Infinity
The Wheel of Time
Title: Re: A step beyond the board
Post by: Defend the Sacred on March 18, 2011, 09:18:00 pm
Warning sticker for Castaneda books:

"WARNING - Consumption may lead to drug abuse, disorientation, arrogance, loss of touch with consensus reality, insistence there is no such thing as "reality", amoral behavior, and alienation from friends and family as you proceed to inflict these new beliefs and bad behavior upon them."
Title: Re: A step beyond the board
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on March 19, 2011, 02:40:11 am
I will stand and say I loved the first 4 Castaneda books and
they taught me to care about others and to work on my own
ego/arrogance. And it was clear in those books that peyote
was used ceremonially, not as recreation. It was always
clear on that.

The next 5 or so books were completely different.  Creating
sociopaths.

My stickers on the 1st 4 would say: Fraudulent story be better
off studying Buddhism.

The rest I'd say: Completely made up he admitted it himself
that he made the whole thing up.  Reading this could seriously
injure your mental health and relation to Earth, Humanity, Reality,
and you self.
Title: Re: A step beyond the board
Post by: aya on March 01, 2012, 09:38:40 am
I have to agree, any source of information, if these are books/authors or websites about the real life-style and philosophy, tradition and myths would be really good.
I mean all I e.g. have are the history books with the wars and and maps of the tribes, books from Ethnolgists and the books of Tom Brown - I don't know if he is a fraud or not. In every case ALLLLLL of them are white people.
This is in fact something that bothers since ever, and not only related to your culture, but in general - all information we get, are written and offered from white people, and from those who live these traditions. So it is a natural consequence that misinterpretation and misinformation goes along with that.
In my sense, a source of information would be helpful and prevent lots of misuse and deception of your culture.
Title: Re: A step beyond the board
Post by: earthw7 on March 01, 2012, 08:08:45 pm
It does not matter because the written word is up for interpetation just look at the bible
Title: Re: A step beyond the board
Post by: Pono Aloha on March 20, 2012, 07:51:55 am
I totally support the sticker idea and hope we can come up with maybe a highly distinctive logo and one to three words -- the "Just Do It" of new age fraud fighting.

I disagree though with putting the Secret on the list, unless I missed something (granted, I didn't read the thing but I did see the movie, ugh.) I don't remember any references to Native beliefs.

I have a whole load of Huna books to put on the list, plus, having recently been in Australia, I was reminded that "Mutant Message Down Under" was a fraud -- Aboriginal elders actually came to the US to fight the book, yet it was re-released on its 10th anniversary.

Here's an idea: a sticker that says "FRAUD." Or "FICTION."

Title: Re: A step beyond the board
Post by: Smart Mule on March 20, 2012, 03:29:56 pm
Pono, James Arthur Ray was in The Secret.
Title: Re: A step beyond the board
Post by: Pono Aloha on March 21, 2012, 08:09:57 am
Sky, thanks, ugh. I see Rhonda has a new book out, "The magic." I always feel a magic repulsion with these books. I pick them up, read one sentence, and put it down. Is that book full of frauds too?
Title: Re: A step beyond the board
Post by: used2bnaf on July 16, 2012, 06:47:57 pm
Hmmm....I have an excel sheet that is a suggested reading list.  It was given to me by one of the members of the group I belonged to for 10 years.  I am sure that there a few books on the list that are reputable.  IE Vine Deloria, and some other anthropological books.  However, There is a whole slew that I know are pure crap.  Now if I can just find a way to attach the spreadsheet to a post.... any thoughts?

used2b
Title: Re: A step beyond the board
Post by: debbieredbear on July 16, 2012, 08:59:36 pm
would be interesting to see.
Title: Re: A step beyond the board
Post by: used2bnaf on July 17, 2012, 04:28:34 am
So here is the list.  Here is my disclaimer.  The list is unabridged.  I am not stating an opinion as to wether all of these books are fradulent or not.  I am sure many of them are.  I am sure some are not.  This list was compiled by a "ceremonial leader", as a tool to help people.
If a book is reputable, let me know and I will edit this post and remove it, so as to not confuse anyone.


Author (Last, First)   Title
Ambrose, Stephen E.   Crazy Horse and Custer: The Parallel Lives of Two American Warriors
Anderson, J. A.   The Sioux in Rosebud: A History in Pictures
Arden, Harvey & Wall, Steve   Wisdomkeepers: Meetings with Native American Spiritual Elders
Arden, Harvey (Compiler)   Noble Red Man: Lakota Wisdomkeeper Mathew King
Beck, Peggy & Walters, Anna   The Sacred: Ways of Knowledge, Sources of Life
Bettelyoun, Susan   With My Own Eyes: A Lakota Woman Tells Her People's History
Black Elk   Black Elk Speaks: Being the life story of a holy man of the Oglala Sioux
Black Elk, Wallace H. & Lyons, William S.   Black Elk: The Sacred Ways of the Lakota
Bleeker, Sonia   The Sioux Indians: Hunters and Warriors of the Plains
Bopp, Judie and Michael; Brown, Lee; Lane, Phil   The Sacred Tree
Boyd, Doug   Mystics, Magicians and Medicine People
Boyd, Doug   Rolling Thunder: A personal exploration into the secret healing powers of an American Indian medicine man
Brave Bird, Mary, with Erdoes, Richard   Ohitika Woman
Brown, Dee   Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee: An Indian History of the American West
Brown, Joseph E.   Animals of the Soul: Sacred Animals of the Oglala Sioux
Bucko, Raymond (microfilm)   The Lakota Ritual of the Sweat Lodge: History and Contemporary Practice
Buechel, Eugene   A Grammar of Lakota, the Language of the Teton Sioux
Buechel, Eugene   Lakota Dictionary: Lakota-English / English-Lakota, New Comprehensive Edition
Buechel, Eugene   Lakota Tales and Text: In Translation
Canby, William   American Indian Law in a Nutshell
Catches, Pete S. Sr. & Catches, Retek V. & Catches, Cynthia L.   Oceti Wakan: Translation of; Sacred Fireplace
Churchill, Ward   Indians are Us? Culture and Genocide in Native America
Clark, Robert A.   The Killing of Chief Crazy Horse: Three Eyewitness Views
Crow Dog, Leonard  & Richard Erdoes   Crow Dog: Four Generations of Sioux Medicing Men
Crow Dog, Mary & Erdoes, Richard   Lakota Woman
Crummett, Michael   Sun Dance: the 50th anniversary Crow Indian Sun Dance
Curtis, Natalie   The Indians' Book
Dekome, Jim   Psychedelic Shamanism
   
   
Demaillie, Raymond J. [Editor]   The Sixth Grandfather: Black Elk's Teachings Given to John G. Neihardt
   
   
Erdoes, Richard   American Indian Myths and Legends
Erdoes, Richard   Crying for a Dream: The World Through Native American Eyes
Erdoes, Richard   Lame Deer: Seeker of Visions
Erdoes, Richard   The Sun Dance People: the Plains Indians, Their Past and Present
Erdoes, Richard & Lame Deer, Archie Fire   Gift of Power: The Life and Teachings of a Lakota Medicine Man
Feraca, Stephen E.   Wakinyan: Lakota Religion in the Twentieth Century
Frey, Rodney   The world of the Crow Indians: As driftwood lodges
Hammerschlag   The Dancing Healers: A doctor’s journey of healing with Native Americans
Hausman, Gerald (Editor) & Kapoun, Bob (Editor)   Prayer to the Great Mystery: The Uncollected Writings and Photography of Edwards S. Curtis
Hill, Ruth   Hanta Yo: An American Saga
Hull, Michael C.   Sun Dancing: A Spiritual Journey on the Red Road
Hutchens, Alma A.   Indian Herbalogy of North America
Lame Deer, Archie Fire & Sarkis, Helene   The Lakota Sweat Lodge Cards: Spiritual Teachings of the Sioux
Lame Deer, Archie Fire & Sarkis, Helene   The Lakota Sweat Lodge Cards: Spiritual Teachings of the Sioux (Cards)
Lazarus, Edward   Black Hills/White Justice: The Sioux Nation versus the United States: 1775 to the Present
Lewis, Thomas   The Medicine Men
Mails, Thomas E.   Fools Crow
Mails, Thomas E.   Fools Crow: Wisdom and Power
Mails, Thomas E.   Peoples of the Plains (Library of Native Peoples
Mails, Thomas E.   Plains Indians: Dog Soldiers, Bear Men and Buffalo Women
Mails, Thomas E.   Spirits of the Plains (Library of Natives Peoples)
Mails, Thomas E.   Sundancing at Rosebud and Pine Ridge
Mails, Thomas E.   Sundancing: The Great Sioux Piercing Ceremony [Illustrated]
Marshall, Joseph M. III   The Lakota Way: Stories and Lessons for Living
Marshall, Joseph M. III   Walking with Grandfather: The Wisdom of Lakota Elders
Matthiessen, Peter   In the Spirit of Crazy Horse
McLaughlin, Marie L.   Myths and Legends of the Sioux
Medicine Eagle, Brooke   Buffalo Woman Comes Singing
Neihardt, John G.   Black Elk Speaks
Parlow, Anita     Cry Sacred Ground: Big Mountain USA
Powers, Marla N.   Oglala Women: Myth, Ritual and Reality
Powers, William K.   Oglala Religion
Powers, William K.   Sacred Language: The Nature of Supernatural Discourse in Lakota
Rockwell, David   Giving Voice to Bear
Sams, Jamie & Carson, David   Medicine Cards: The Discovery of Power through the ways of Animals
Sams, Jamie & Nitsch, Twylah   Other Council Fires were here before Ours
Scout Cloud, Lee   The Circle is Sacred
Silko, Leslie Marmon   Ceremony
St. Pierre, Mark   Madonna Swan: A Lakota Woman's story
St. Pierre, Mark   Walking in the Sacred Manner: Healers, Dreamers, and Pipe Carriers -- Medicine Women of the Plains
Standing Bear, Luther   Land of the Spotted Eagle
Starita, Joe   The Dull Knifes of Pine Ridge: A Lakota Odyssey
Steinmetz, Paul B.   Pipe, Bible and Peyote among the Oglala Lakota: A Study in Religious Identity
Steltenkamp, Michael   Black Elk: Holy Man of the Oglala
Stewart, Omer C.   Peyote Religion: A History
Stolzman, William   The Pipe and Christ
Storm, Hyemeyohsts   LightningBolt
Storm, Hyemeyohsts   Seven Arrows
Storm, Hyemeyohsts   Song of Heyoehkah
Sun Bear   The Book of Vision Quest: Personal Transformation in the Wilderness
Sun Bear   The Medicine Wheel: Earth Astrology
Sun Bear   The Path of Power
Taylor, Pat Ellis (Editor)   Border Healing Woman: the story of Jewel Babb
Thunder, Mary Elizabeth   Thunder’s Grace: walking the road of visions with my Lakota grandmother
Twofeathers, Manny   The Road to the Sundance: My Journey into Native Spirituality
Votget, Fred W.   The Shoshoni-Crow Sun Dance
Walker, James R.   Lakota Belief and Ritual
Walker, James R.   Lakota Myth
Walker, James R.   Lakota Society
Yellowtail, Thomas   Yellowtail: Crow medicine man and Sun Dance chief: An autobiography
Young Bear, Severt and Theisz, R.D.   Standing in the Light: A Lakota Way of Seeing
Zimmerman, Bill     Airlift to Wounded Knee
Title: Re: A step beyond the board
Post by: debbieredbear on July 17, 2012, 03:49:06 pm
Wow, some (most) are actually good books. Sprinkled with some obvious bad ones: Sun Bear, H. Storm, Jamie Sams, Mary Thunder and Thomas Mails among them. Also some that I have questions about.
Title: Re: A step beyond the board
Post by: Defend the Sacred on July 17, 2012, 07:06:43 pm
some obvious bad ones: Sun Bear, H. Storm, Jamie Sams, Mary Thunder and Thomas Mails among them.

Also Brooke Medicine Eagle, and a number of other people we have threads on.
Title: Re: A step beyond the board
Post by: debbieredbear on July 17, 2012, 07:24:13 pm
Yeah, and some that are questionable to me. It would be hard for someone who is not in the know to pick out the bad from the good when there are some really good books on the list.
Title: Re: A step beyond the board
Post by: used2bnaf on July 17, 2012, 11:13:18 pm
Yeah, and some that are questionable to me. It would be hard for someone who is not in the know to pick out the bad from the good when there are some really good books on the list.

Exactly.

And even what would be called the good ones are framed in a "self help" context.  It is very sad.