General > Frauds

Frauds and illness

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gusss:
Piz-
you werent charging people or misleading gullable young people into ceremony to boost your flaggin sense of self importance.

walking-soft:
Plz,

Was wondering if the Ed MCGaa is the one also known as Eagle Man, tribal member of the Oglala Sioux?? I think he is also an Author?

I know Ed, Pine Ridge hey? Same one?

I just wanted a little clarification. Did you say you had an opportunity to  sweat with Ed or that he started it and than you took over,I'm assuming at one of the doors?

Just wondering.            Wado

gusss:
Piya -
In response to your statenment about alcahol and tobacco.
It occurs to me it is slightly erroneous to atribute these bad health effects to either the substances themselves or racial characteristics of the people taking them.
Id say they were more cultural reasons.
I have several resons for saying this.
Alcahol has also reeked havoc in Europe - in gaelic areas of glasgow for example alcahol is a major factor in the average lifespan being only 54 years.
Conversly the Incas and Amazonian natives had alcahol before the arrival of the europeans - namely masato and cheecha.
Did you hear that Tobaco and cocaine were recently discovered in an egyptian tomb ?
I am also know there are catholic natives who have drank the eucharist without becoming alcaholics.
tobacco in europe is generally full of chemicals and smoked as a stress reliever rather than anything sacred.
So id say its more to do with way one uses these substances and the cultural context in which they are used that affects health.
However I must admit different races have evolved over thousands of years to adapt to certain substances so there must be some gentetic factors as well.

Moma_porcupine:
Guss , you ask a good question , in your first post . I have known a few people into New Age
stuff , and I know how hard it can be to explain why what they are doing might be harmful .
Most of them  have good intentions , but are also confused and ignorant . Unfortunanly being
confused and ignorant , makes people vulnerable to the few who are manipulative and exploitive .

The way I understand this ( and I may be partly wrong  ) is that the Spiritual teachings and
traditions , which maintain the moral and Spiritul health of a community , are not the same thing as traditional medicine used to shift something to a desired outcome.

As I understand it , in many Native traditions , "medicine" , beyond simple plant knowledge for physical health ,  is similar to non native magic or witchcraft.

People who work with medicine or magic are not necesaarily Spiritual people , and Spiritual
people are not always medicine people .

Spiritual teachings and traditions are very important to make sure any medicine or magic used
is directed in a wise and good way , and even the most knowledgeable Elders seem to be very
cautious about making any assumptions about how medicine will work .  That is one of the reasons
such great efforts are made to keep the Spiritual traditions and teachings entirely seperate
from of the allure and corrupting temptations of money and as Guss cals it "guruship".  

Medicine people who are not also mature Spiritual people tend to be dangerous .  

Mature Spirtual people do not use drugs and alcohol .

There is a book called Grass Dancer , by  Susan Power , which I highly recommend to anyone
who is interested in Native medicine or becoming a "shaman" . It is only a work of fiction , but is a good read , and Susan Powers knows the culture . ( Her Mom is Lakota ) This book has as one of the plot lines ,what happens when traditional medicine gets used outside of protective frame work of traditional Spirituality .

So often non native people do not understand why it is important to keep traditional safe guards in place , or why Native Spiritual traditions cannot be shared .

In many cases the morals and values found in Native tradiditions probably can be shared , with
a good outcome , and many respected Elders such as William Commanda seem to make a point to
reach out to do this .  But this is not at all the same , as trying to imitate specific Native traditions and ceremonies . Native traditions work for Native people primarily BECAUSE these traditions are their own traditions and connect to something , that is both a part of themselves and much bigger than themselves .  

If non native people try and connect with this , really , all they are doing is pretending . An escapeist fantasy , or a non native version of a cargo cult , practiced in the hopes of once again discovering a new continent of riches . Only this time it is mostly in their imaginations .

Native traditions belong in Native communities because they are much easier to maintain in a
healthy way when they exist within a Native community .  The temptations of guruship are
markedly reduced if a person knew all the people who might sit them up on a pedastel , when
they were in diapers . In a traditional community elderly people are usually taken care of .  
When people are secure and old enough to be facing their own death , they no longer have a
need for a pile of stuff , and know that the only thing that will last ,is what they manage
to pass on . In a traditional community , there is more than one Elder , so there is a better
balance of knowledge and power and also a peer group to notice if something is wrong .  Day to day life
with people who have known you all your life tends to keep peoples egos ground down to a
realistic size . Even with all these traditional safe guards some people practicre bad medicine
and some medicine goes different than expected .

That is how I understand it . If any of this is wrong , or might further confuse someone I hope someone will correct me .

plz:
[quote author=walking-soft
Plz,

Was wondering if the Ed MCGaa is the one also known as Eagle Man, tribal member of the Oglala Sioux?? I think he is also an Author?

I know Ed, Pine Ridge hey? Same one?

I just wanted a little clarification. Did you say you had an opportunity to ? sweat with Ed or that he started it and than you took over,I'm assuming at one of the doors?

Just wondering. ?  ?  ?  ?  ?  ? Wado [/quote]

Yes, this is the man.  I posted my experience with him in a seperate thread under his name in the Frauds folder.

It was back in the fall of '89,  at a college in So. Mn.  There was a weekend of programs/Nuage stuff where he spoke on Native Spirituality, then would conduct ceremony for those interested.  The reason he gave me for turning over the last half of Inipi to me was: "He was tired."

I did not want to do this.  But had not gradutated to the point of seeing him for who he was, nor my complicity in yet more theft from Native peoples.

That summer he was in the process of writing his book "Mother Earth Spriituality" and drumming up 'business' and stories to include in the book.  

Do you know of Arlo Omaha from Rosebud?

I am happy to answer any questions that could help someone else.

Respectfully,
pattyz

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