Author Topic: A Meeting Between A Peaceful Indian & A Lost S  (Read 22646 times)

Offline educatedindian

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A Meeting Between A Peaceful Indian & A Lost S
« on: July 25, 2005, 11:03:44 pm »
A letter from one of the more obnoxious Nuagers in Sweden and my attempt at a humorous answer:

A Meeting Between A Peaceful Indian & A Lost Soul Making "Piece Shields"

Dear Mr. "Piece Shield" Maker,
Annika Banfield passed along your email to me and I really have to thank you. I don't think I've laughed so hard in a very long time.

Of course the problem for you is that you did not intend to be funny.

What is both funny and sad at the same time is that you honestly thought you were being profound when in fact you were just showing yourself to be incredibly deluded and ignorant about Native cultures.

Try and imagine if I were to lecture you on the "truth" about maypoles and runes. Try to imagine an Indian saying "You use maypoles to make Jesus strike lightning and thunder with his mighty hammer, and use the runes to speak to Yusen during crown dances."

THAT is just how terrible and inaccurate and confused a picture you have of Native traditions.
You truly have been terribly victimized by Williston ("Rainbow Eagle") and Talbot ("Medicine Story").
To start with the most obvious fact, Talbot is not even Indian, he's white.

Below is your email and I'll try to address what you say point by point. Hopefully you will be able to see when I'm using Indian Humor too. My words have >>>.

>>>ROFL! OK, already you're being unintentionally funny in so many ways.

>>>I'm guessing you meant "peace" meaning no war, but you wrote "piece" meaning, among other things:

>>>Piece can mean broken up little bits or tiny incomplete parts, as in "pieces of broken glass." And your knowledge of Native cultures is certainly in pieces, incomplete, and broken up by the ignorance you've been fed by imposters like Talbot.

>>>Piece can also mean in American slang the act of sex or a sexual conquest, like "getting a piece of ass" or "a piece of pussy". Another slang word for the sex act is "screw" which also has means to destroy or to harm somebody.

>>>So by saying "piece shield" you unintentionally admitted those phony shields are broken, incomplete, and screw over their users.

>>>I hope you realize there is NO such thing in Native cultures as "peace shields." It's about as stupid an idea as a "peace machine gun." Shields are weapons of war. Williston made them up to take your money.

I heard about a touring Indian travelling round critizising representatives from his own culture.

>>>ROFL! There you go again being unintentionally funny and showing your own ignorance.

>>>Indians don't have one culture, we have HUNDREDS. Williston is Choctaw, I'm not. Talbot pretends to be Wampanoag when he's white, and I'm not Wampanoag.

>>>And neither one of them are "representatives." They're imposters out making money off the gullible.

>>>I will make you an offer right now. I will pay one thousand dollars if you can show me PROOF that either Williston or Talbot were chosen by Choctaws or Wampanoags to represent them.

Offline educatedindian

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Re: A Meeting Between A Peaceful Indian & A Lo
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2005, 11:06:41 pm »
Pt 2, his words first, mine have >>>.

So I called Hasse and asked him about a copy of the lecturers program. TEN WAYS TO RECOGNIZE FALSE MEDICINEMEN, it said. With an extra: “For you who wants to know the truth.???

During the years I´ve worked with the wisdom of the Pieceshield, different Medicine Wheels and other original sources from Northamerica,

>>>ROFL! Oh right, you think the "getting screwed shield" is from America...And I'm sorry to tell you this, but the version of medicine wheels you learned probably came from H. Storm, who is...GERMAN.

I have among other things been fascinated of how differently we treat a word like “the truth???

>>>So who is this "we"? Did you just magically become Indian?

According to many indigenous cultures which are still in contact with their roots we live in a world full of many different personalities and collective truths.

>>>ROFL! Oh my, it's getting harder and harder to write this, my belly is starting to hurt from laughter.

So when I read that the speaker claimed to be Mescalero Apache and know the only truth,

>>>I'm always amused when people have to MAKE UP things I never said. Tells me they are having trouble refuting what I ACTUALLY say.

I got very confused.

>>>You "got" very confused? Bubba, I hate to tell you this, you were and are incredibly confused BEFORE.

But I decided to use the PieceShield like a Medicinewheel

>>>I'm trying to picture you taking that silly little New Age shield and put it on the ground, fill it with stones, walking around it meditating...and it's a pretty funny image!

and investigate this vision,

>>>It's not a "vision" bubba. It's called an opinion, which just about all Native people share of frauds like Williston and Talbot.

which is apparantly aimed to throw mud on other representatives of the indigenous people of Northamerica.

>>>ROFL! "Throw mud"?

>>>OK, apparently you are very confused (yet again) about how that term is used.

>>>"Throwing mud" may be bad to Europeans and white Americans, but it often isn't to Indians. (Real ones, not imposters like Talbot.)

>>>A lot of Native people put mud on themselves in ceremonies. A lot of Native oral traditions have stories about mud as being the source of creation.

In the spirit of the Piece Shield I turn first towards West

>>>So does this mean you face west during sex?

to meditate on what kind of resonance this message gave in my inner being

>>>Apparently you were using a vibrator on yourself...

and my personal vision of a better world. In the peaceful hibernating-den of the Bear,

>>>You were dumb enough to try and disturb a sleeping bear?

I realized that our respective world views contained so many forecful paradoxes.

>>>Probably the funniest paradox is a white European New Ager lecturing Indians on Indian cultures.

Which made me say a prayer that this lost warrior

>>>A bear made you say a prayer? Are you sure you just weren't praying the bear wouldn't wake up?

finds a good way to balance his extrovert aggressivity

>>>You can say "extrovert aggressivity" but don't know the difference between "piece" and "peace"?

before it forcefully hits back on him.

>>>I'm trying to imagine an emotion "hitting back" and it's a pretty funny picture.

Then I turned North and cleaned my antennas to get more knowledge

>>>Apparently you don't have cable television.

>>>No wait, maybe you think you have antennas like a Martian from the old movies? Which is it?

and enter deeper in what was written

>>>Since you think you're a Martian, maybe you
think you can shrink down small enough to get on the written "between the lines."

and between the lines.

>>>Yes, you sure do think that!

Offline educatedindian

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Re: A Meeting Between A Peaceful Indian & A Lo
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2005, 11:22:04 pm »
Pt 3

In the little fIyer I found severe mistakes, crude generalisations which together in their diversity

>>>Wait a minute, either there were generalizations, or there was diversity. You'e contradicting yourself all over the place, bubba.

created a picture of an immensely unbalanced belief system

>>>I'll be sure and tell Apache elders their traditions are "unbalanced".

>>>I'm sure they'll run right out and change them because a European New Ager told them to.

>>>That was sarcasm, in case you weren't sure bubba.

and a mind with a huge lack of knowledge.

>>>Let's see, you can't even tell "piece" from "peace" and you didn't even realize your "Indian" teacher Talbot is WHITE...

>>>...and supposedly I'm the one who doesn't know anything.

After that I turned East and used the Eagle´s capacity to see the issue in a bigger context.

>>>That's what it says in biology books about eagles: "They use their eagle eyes to see white New Age issues in a bigger context." Not to catch game, because we know eagles would never do anything as unspiritual as kill other animals.

In my inner landscape

>>>So were you still an eagle in your "inner landscape"? Must be crowded to have him inside your head. Maybe you were something else that could actually fit in a human head? Like, I don't know, a tapeworm.

>>>Is your "Indian" name..."Slithers in Inner Landscape"?

I saw a hurt child

>>>I realize you were trying to do some kind of "super spiritual" diagnosis of me, but you just went and said that YOU were the one who was a "hurt child."

>>>Look up "Freudian slip", bubba.

rushing around looking for confirmation – almost at any price!

>>>That is a truly depressing picture you are painting of yourself, a hurt child who doesn't care how he hurts others.

Here I made a decision not to give this confrontation any more of my energy.

>>>"Confrontation"? It's called TALKING, bubba. And all you're doing is admitting you can't deal with the truth.

So I opened the claws in the spirit of the Piece Shield

>>>You have claws in your "getting screwed shield"?

and let go of the plan to start a more detailed counteraction.

>>>In other words, you just can't deal with the truth about the frauds who taught you lies.

>>>Sorry bubba, but there will be a lot MORE Indians coming over to Sweden to drive the frauds like Williston and Talbot out of business and get people to realize the truth about us.

>>>Deal with it. Accept it.

And so I turned South – the place where we put our visions out in the ordinary reality

>>>The south is the only place with any reality? But you're from Sweden, bubba? Does that mean you admit you're living in a fantasy la-la land?

>>>And Williston lives in Ohio, in the north of the US. Talbot lives in New England. So are you saying they live in an unreal fantasyland, just like you?

with so much trust, empathy and love which is possible to obtain. Now I realized that this lost vision needed to meet someone who could put up boundaries.

>>>Take a look at your own words. You admitted that YOU were the "lost child" a few lines back.

>>>So like a child like you needs boundaries. You need to get your hand slapped when you do wrong.

>>>And Native people are telling you the boundary is around Native spiritual traditions. Leave them alone and quit falling for lies about them.

So by summoning all my sympathy I sat down to write these lines to the readers. There is a teaching in everything that happens. And maybe this lost soul has taken on the task in the Big Plan to thoroughly prove that you shouldn´t give your trust to anyone. Not even if he happens to be a real Indian…..

>>>ROFL! I'm still wondering if you'll ever learn to tell what a real Indian is...

Rainbow Eagle, Mary, Medicine Story,

>>>Nope, apparently not. You still think a white man like Talbot is Indian.

Ellika and other wisdomkeepers who mediate knowledge from different cultures

>>>Interesting choice of words. A mediator's job is to bring peace to cultures in conflict.

know that they are a part of these visions, telling us we live in a very special time. A time that, according to the prophecies, shows that the future of mankind is dependant on us sharing more generously of the beauty in our respective cultures and traditions.

>>>So do you always pay huge sums of money to "share"?

>>>You truly are very funny. You just don't know it...But I'll be sure to tell the world how funny you are. This message is being posted online.
Al Carroll

Offline 180IQ

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Re: A Meeting Between A Peaceful Indian & A Lo
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2005, 02:48:28 am »
Thanks for posting this, I laughed myself silly! And This antagonist certainly has a writing style that positively begs for a humorous response, but I am sure it will not be taken that way.

Offline Barnaby_McEwan

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Re: A Meeting Between A Peaceful Indian & A Lo
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2005, 07:08:11 pm »
Translation: "Dammit: this guy sounds like the real deal. If I'm to remain in my comfort zone, I must spend time and effort finding out whether he's right or wrong by contacting tribal offices, reading books with long words, etc. Oh - I only have the brain of a rocking-horse. I'll just have to play the 'more spiritual than thou' card. At least that'll make me feel better."

Offline vikinglady

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Re: A Meeting Between A Peaceful Indian & A Lo
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2005, 06:39:26 pm »
In all fairness, I have to comment on the above. This email was translated by me and forwarded to Al. And I *definitely* know the difference between piece and peace so what can I blame my spelling mistake on....? The translation was made in a rush, it was too late in the night. Or maybe dear old Mr. Freud  (oops, nearly messed up again and wrote "Mr. Fraud...." :)  ) would have been able to tell me why I made the peace shield into a piece shield.

Anyway, there are plenty of things to comment on in the email but that spelling mistake is mine and noone else´s. Also, Al didn´t have a clue that it was translated from Swedish so again - noone is to blame but me.

I have had many similar emails since Al left, I´ve forwarded some of them. I know that all of the guys writing to me complaining about what Al said have, in fact, got Al´s emailaddress. So again, this just shows what a bad idea it is to go through middlehands instead of addressing the person it concerns.

But on the good side, I´ve had several offers these last weeks to come and lecture in New Age places all around Sweden. So it seems the "New Age community" over here is dividing into two groups which is *very* positive and an obvious threat to exploiters!

So - apologies for this mess-up!! I´m a foreigner, you know!   ;D ;D


Offline educatedindian

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Re: A Meeting Between A Peaceful Indian & A Lo
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2005, 12:21:21 am »
All the Nuagers in Europe who disagree with me seem to be incredibly cowardly. Not one of them has written me personally, or written back after I answered the forwarded emails.

I can only guess they are afraid because they realize deep down just how little they know. And in that they are correct.

I should also point out there are so many wonderful EX Nuagers we met in Europe, people with good hearts and the openmindedness and  courage to admit they were wrong and change for the better.

Both groups give me reason to go back to Europe as often as necessary.

Offline vikinglady

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Re: A Meeting Between A Peaceful Indian & A Lo
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2005, 08:52:57 am »
Well, if you can´t beat them, make them disappear.....

I heard yesterday that the rumour is out now that you are, in fact, *not* a real Indian. Which means they don´t have to  bother about what you said.  (SIGH)

I am desperately trying to keep up with what I am doing, since the first version was that I *made* you say whatever you said. So now it seems like I´m picking up non-Natives, making them "play Indian" and say things no "real Ndn" would say! ???  ???     Wish someone could tell me why I am doing all this, because I am sure getting confused here!  :)

Offline educatedindian

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Re: A Meeting Between A Peaceful Indian & A Lo
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2005, 01:37:45 pm »
For any of the idiots spreading rumors I'm not a "real" Indian...

In addition to people who know me locally in San Antonio and at NAFPS...

They can feel free to contact:
ASU History Dept. with Professors Peter Iverson and Robert Trennert (both big names in Native history)
Angela Cavendar Wilson (Dakota historian)
Myla Vicenti Carpio (Jicarilla Apache historian)
Joyce Kievet (Eastern Band Cherokee historian, and my old boss at H-Amindian)
Other Natives who knew me at ASU like Laurie Arnold (Colville), Rose Soza Warsoldier, and Richie Myers (Lakota, head of the American Indian Graduate Students Association).
At Purdue University, Donna Akers (Choctaw historian) and Donald Parman (another big name in Native history).

And googling any of the names listed above should make the ones make these claims shut up and be pretty embarassed over saying something that foolish. These are some of the biggest names in Native history in the US.

You can pass along this post, or repost it elsewhere if it will stop the rumors.

And once again, I challenge any of the Nuagers in Sweden saying these things about me to say them TO me, instead of being so cowardly as to only say them behind my back.

Offline vikinglady

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Re: A Meeting Between A Peaceful Indian & A Lo
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2005, 02:09:39 pm »
Well, the reason they do *not* say it straight to you is because they know they´re soooo wrong!

Let´s look at it the other way: this just proves that you made such a big impression in Sweden and got so many people with you, that the exploiters now are getting *really* nervous.  :)


Offline educatedindian

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Re: A Meeting Between A Peaceful Indian & A Lo
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2005, 04:37:30 pm »
The latest unintentional comedy from this guy. I love how he can't answer any of my points, so he pulls the relly-spirchul card again.

Can anybody add their own comedy bits to the list I started, Top Ten Lessons About Speaking With Nuagers? My first three are numbered below.

An answer to your incredibly funny email

Thanks for being unintentionally funny yet again, for proving your own ability at self delusion knows no bounds.
More comments within the text. Mine have >>>

classe waltin <> wrote:
Greetings! A central part of my personal vision/intention/work is about taking the best from the old ways

>>>First let me congrtulate you on another Freudian slip. You said "take" which also means "steal". You are no longer pretending to be "sharing".

>>>The further problem is absolutely NONE of what you are taking is real. "Peace shields" are absolutely phony and don't exist in Native cultures.

>>>I made the offer to you before: Show me that Williston or Talbot are "representatives" of any Native people. You couldn't. That is an admission they are New Age people, not Native leaders.

>>>I'll make a second offer: Show me where "peace shields" are part of Anishnaabe tradition. They aren't. They're phony and made up to take money from gullible people such as yourself.

together with the best of the new ways, in order to obtain more balance in our current ways of living.
When inaccurate information is spred about my friends and Elders I find it natural to not let it pass

>>>"Elders"? LOL! Oh my, you really think you became Indian because you foolishly gave money to frauds?

>>>And I'll make you a third offer: Show me where any "inaccurate information" is being spread about frauds like Williston or Talbot.

Changing focus a bit,

>>>Yep, can't let the truth get in the way, can you?

I try to figure out what kind of lesson there is to draw from our correspondance.

>>>Sure there is. Titles for the Lesson:

>>>1) Denial Ain't Just a River in Egypt

>>>2) The More You Use Me, the More I Like It: Masochism Among Nuagers

>>>3) Clueless In Sweden

>>>And I'll see what else people can come up with. There's a comedy thread about you over at;action=display;num=1122332625 Come see how people find you so funny!

Maybe I could have left out some of the most sarcastic expressions, in order to show more respect for the Peace Shield and it´s peaceful vision...

>>>LOL! "Peace shields" don't have visions, bubba, it' a piece of leather and wood made up by twinkies like yourself.

>>>Here's an idea: How about you show respect for the Anishnaabe and quit spreading lies about their traditions?

Finally a story.
A Native American Grandfather talks to his young
grandson. He tells the boy that he has two wolves
inside of him, struggling with each other. The first is the wolf of peace,love and kindness. The second is the one of fear, greed and hatred.
-Which wolf will win, Grandfather? Asked the young
Grandfather replies.
-The one I feed.

>>>That story is well known among a lot of Native traditions bubba. Gee, that's incredibly condescending of you. That's mighty white of you.

>>>Look up Freudian slip, bubba, because you criticized yourself in that story.

>>>You feed the wolf of greed when you TAKE (in your own words) Native traditions without asking and distort and lie about them.

>>>The fact that you insist Indians must live up to your expectations shows you feed your racist hatred towards Natives.

>>>And by failing to look within yourself and examine the harm you do, you feed the wolf of your own fears. Ask yourself: why are you afraid to look within and see the harm you do?

>>>So while you may make us laugh, in the end Native people truly pity you and your self delusions.

Offline vikinglady

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Re: A Meeting Between A Peaceful Indian & A Lo
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2005, 10:21:22 pm »
>>>3) Clueless In Sweden

Aaaah, I took that course!  Quite tough but extremely good!! Highly recommended for all Swedes ;D


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Re: A Meeting Between A Peaceful Indian & A Lo
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2005, 03:26:51 pm »


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Re: A Meeting Between A Peaceful Indian & A Lo
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2005, 01:14:29 pm »
It's good to be back Al. Sorry I missed you on the tour. But with all the new stuff going on, I'm sure we'll meet up sooner or later.