What makes an NDN an NDN?

[earthw7]

The metis are a nation in Canada, they are Cree, Chippewa, french not just any mixed blood.

[earthw7]

Alexander the Great
remember his mother convinced him he was a son of a god
damaged his brain

[educatedindian]

1. Ah, we live in a mixed culture...white, black, AND NDN.  You cannot just say that I don't live in just an NDN culture, when that culture is still around where I live. 

2. Perhaps, instead of researching NDN's in the military, you should start researching on the fact of why there is a struggle between east and west tribes/nations. 

3. Make a dissertation, and supply me when it gets published so I can read it and understand, if it is fictacious or not.

4. Of course I'd be angered...wouldn't you in my position? 

5. Oh, yea, you HAVE been in my position already, and according to you, many times.

1. Living in an area that's less than a tenth of a percent Native doesn't make it an Indian culture.

I'm sure our Black members are thrilled that you now claim to have grown up in the Black culture also...

2. That doesn't exist. Obviously you've never been around many Indians. Mohawk and Lumbee routinely are side by side with Lakota and Apache. Such as in this very forum.

3. Why would I do a second dissertation and hand it over to you when you know so little about Indians?

4. I don't think I'd have ever been foolish enough to try and join a fake tribe, post photos of myself in poor regalia, etc. And I especially would not get angry and insult repeatedly people who took so much time to offer good advice.

5. No, I never have been, as I just said. And you've never been defamed for work as an activist, had your parents' lives threatened by the same libellers, faced numerous lawsuit threats, etc. So you have no understanding of my experiences. And worse, you often make little effort to understand before you go into your rants of misdirected anger.

Others may continue to try if they wish. I see no further point in trying to get through to you until you control your temper and knock off the insults. The next set of insults of yours get deleted. Any second set will get you sent to the corner to cool off. "Time out" as teachers do to elementary school kids.

[frederica]

Yeah, he was weird, but he functioned at a much higher level, ended up being a extraordinary meglamaniac, not a co-dependent.

[Rattlebone]

 OMG this thread gives me a headache.

 I wonder how people can beleive the things they do, and join fake tribes.


 Made me feel like pounding my head on the desk reading this thread!!!

[Ric_Richardson]

Tansi;

I agree that this has long since become absurd!  As so often happens, when someone does not get recognition in a recognized Aboriginal community, this individual is now claiming to be Metis.

There are links to information about the Metis people, on this forum.  I would suggest that this individual (and his mother) look at these.

I have just returned from Batoche, where we had the 38th annual "Back to Batoche" gathering, with fiddles, dancing and many opportunities to see thousands of Metis people getting together to share our vibrant Culture.  For me, it was most uplifting when there were four generations of our family, on the dance floor.  Seeing our Great Grandchildren learning about who we are, is wonderful.

At this gathering, there was also a book released, entitled "Medicines that Help Us" in which the Traditional Metis uses of plant Medicine is written about, from a Metis perspective, by Metis authors.

I don't think that I saw the people, in this thread there, although there were Metis people from both Canada and the USA, there.  Some of the folks from Turtle Mountain, ND and Browning Montana always come to share with the rest of our families.

Ekosi
Ric

[LittleOldMan]

 First I  have watched this thread as well as the other on the Allegheny Lenape.  Over the many years that I have been associated with Native Americans two traits that I have observed to be the most important to their culture  are patience and courtesy.  I have yet to see an Elder speak harshly or cruelly to any one, period.  It is a fact that we do have Elders who are members of this forum.  They have addressed this subject appropriately.  I regret that the message that was received was not the answer that was desired.  I have been told that a young man , to the Cherokee , was not considered to have any weight in council till he was thirty.  Or would not have been considered to be able to even qualify for Elder status until after fifty.  Demands do not go over very well with in the Native community nor does anger or disrespect does it.  Second,  A card does not an IDN make it takes much,  much more.  After all there have only been cards for less than a century.  We have gotten along very well without them for thousands of years have we not?  Some amount of BQ of course but this is  variable factor, there have been adoptions.   Much more important is how does one relate to one's culture (Tribe) does one live it?  Does one know their language? Does one give of his time and treasure for the welfare of the Tribe?  Most important do the other members of the Native Community accept them as one of their own.  Culture ,Community, and Family are the deciding factors would you not agree?  I offer this opinion with kindness and respect to you all.  I am as always "LittleOldMan"

[outershell]

I don't doubt that the Alleghenny Lenape existed in Ohio...I don't doubt that the descendants still exist there.  I believe you ....but somewhere along the line they gave up their community, their land, and their self-governance.  What's left are remnants.

Sad, but true.

I grew up in PA, with the Lenape groups. Before the internet, they were the closet connection i had. Most of them probly meant well, but it turned out to be lies, half truths, hollywood stereotypes and this romantic idea of a simpler way of life..... it messed me up.
Took a long time to unlearn the crap and  i had to have my *** handed to me a few times before i realized how much i had to learn. humiliating but necessary.
But I also learned that it doesn't have to be the "haves" vs. the "have nots".
Redhawk and those like him can learn to accept their situation and that it can be a positive supporting force. I would say: Enjoy the learning process and try to point others in the direction of authentic sources. Don't rush to be accepted or to lead anything . And actually give support to authentic causes when you can.

[chiefytiger]

Here's what I have to say ,What makes an NDN, it comes from the heart and knowing who ur  Family lineiage is. Reconized or not if your Native ,aint noboby can change what you are . Im a first Nations humane being and proud of it ,

[Kevin]

- my .02 worth as a non-Indian: someone who can speak their language or knows some of it, who believes in their ceremony, who is connected to their land and has some people still on the land.

[Keely]

I totally agree with you, but not being recognized even by Federal you have no access to no funds for helping to buy a home, helping me with college, nor can I even 'own' any bird of prey feathers and wear them proudly like any other NDN at powwows and gatherings - if ya do, you'll get busted by a ranger and be in jail.

It irritates me that I cannot wear something like feathers that are sacred to me, nor be able to get that bit of extra grants for college to help me graduate faster.

You are so true, State Recognition is pretty much a glorified way of holding a tribe together, or help the state with their tourism.  But many non-recognized people (those who can prove their geneology and DNA together and have it match, like my mother and I) look towards State or Federal Recognition - and the latter I know we'll never get in because our ancestors never made it west to the reservations.

As to my regalia, I know...that was worse than one previously.  Currently I'm working on a better looking regalia:  a floral beaded vest, apron (and biker shorts to wear underneath), buckskin leggings and soon will buy puckered toe moccasins to make.  Trust me, I'd never wear that wolfhide of mine in this 90 degree heat!  lol.  But, I'm pretty much doing research.  Going to get a traditional bustle and roach for Men's Northern Traditional dancing next year at powwow, along with a breastplate (even though as far as I know the Lenape never wore breastplates like what we see).  I'm still unclear, though, on what is traditional for an eastern woodland headdress, for Shawnee or Lenape (remember, i'm a mixture of Alaskan Athabaskan, Shawnee and Cree - and adopted by the Lenape).  If you have some links to pictures and/or how to make them, please let me know.  Oh, most of my regalia is cloth (green apron and vest), the only thing leather would be my leggings.

Getting back to the task at hand...I have tried to learn Lenape (a hard language to learn), learn customs and religion (this latter is REALLY hard, since there isn't any elders I know living around here but my own mother, and she wouldn't know), and I've got skills for traditional crafts - especially beadwork.  Beading my vest in a floral pattern was something new to me, but it worked wonders.

Thank you for posting...you're the only one out of 58 people who seen my post and cared enough to answer.

Eric

After reading so many posts upon this site, I have so many questions to ask each and every one of you all.  They're unbiased, meaning I'm not bashing any one person in particular.  I'm just very curious on what all of you think.

Excluding Federally Recognized Tribes, which leaves State Recognized and unrecognized tribes, how can you tell which one is legitiment or not?  Meaning, how can you tell which ones are frauds and which ones are real?  Other than if a tribe charges a fee to be a member (even I don't believe in charging a fee).

Also, it brings me to the next question:  Who all on here are Federally Recognized?  State Recognized, or not even recognized at all?  Who are just plain 'white men'?  (note:  I don't put that as derrogatory, since I have white within me as well as NDN.)

If you're unrecognized, how can you fully bash any other State recognized and unrecognized band?  Sure, unrecognized bands are tricky, and have to be thoroughly checked out, but everyone has to give them a chance for they could really be the real thing.  As to State Recognized tribes, unrecognized tribal members should stop and think when you start bashing them.  It took them years and cash to get to where they are today.

Which here's the follow up question:  Are you bashing them because they turned you down for membership?  For example, that's pretty much the one reason why I will always put down the alleged Blue Creek Band of Shawnee - Tula lied about their State Recognition and lied about applying for Federal Recognition.  The Shawnee URB didn't turn us down, but their membership policy is very confusing, with having split families (might take one mother and one child, but won't take the father and another child), and on top of that they would want us out 5 or more times a year to help out, when we live at least 3 hours away from them and my mother is disabled (along with pets at home - 2 birds, 1 fish, 1 cat).  If it wasn't a problem, we would be members by now, way before the Alleghenny Lenape.

I can understand if one or more of you are Federally Recognized.  Federally Recognized tribes, especially from west of the Mississippi, have always bashed the eastern tribes and hardly wants to recognize anyone back here.  I have done my geneology, even did a DNA test through DNAtribes.com (which wasn't one on your list), and I even have photographic proof of my heritage.  But, unfortunately, due to those tribes wanting to go with the 'white man's' rolls, AND with blood quantum, which the Federal Govt. totally discarded and now is just up to the tribes, my mother and I cannot be members of those existing tribes.  I cannot help my ancestors (great great great grandmothers and so on) didn't go west with every other tribe to suffer.  They did what they thought was right - inter-mingle with the white man so they can stay on their homeland.  If it wasn't for my mother's persistance, the NDN part of us would still be covered up.  So, all my mother and I have left is State Recognition.

Though, I don't think ANY tribe, who has applied over and over for Federal Recognition, will ever be Federally Recognized.  If it happens, it's far and few between....really far and few.  For example, if the Shawnee URB does become Federally Recognized, it'll probably be in my children's time...whenever I have one or two...lol.

I know this is a lot of questions, but I would love to know each person's individual answer to them.  It helps me get to know who you all are, and possibly help me out as to my predicament I have now and possibly help my mother and I for the future.

Eric

Wrong forum Eric, but I'll try and tell you what I think on this subject.  You seem to be focused on the governmental definitions of Indians.  The more you learn about these definitions the more you'll learn that State Recognition is absolutely worthless.  States come up with their own criteria for why they recognized an entity.  On your group...the Allegheny Lenape, I've found no reference anywhere to them being state recognized.  The only state recognized group I've found in Ohio is the URB of Shawnee.  Pope Hawk would like people to believe that the tribe he's created is the exact same as any federally recognized tribe.  What the URB is defined as in their state recognition, they are "descendants" of the Shawnee that existed in Ohio, but there's never been a governmentally recognized Shawnee tribe in Ohio.  Just individuals identified and confirmed as Shawnee and the URB are individuals (not all of them because of their dubious membership) who descend from these people.  That's the true nature of State Recognition for Pope Hawk's group.

He's very detailed and has a lot of references in letters and other things about the URB saved in files, but the existing Shawnee bands do not consider Pope Hawk as a leader and do not recognize the URB as a tribal entity.  In short....they are not a tribe.  If you look further into their legal existence you'll see this is in reality a non-profit organization who uses the words "nation" and "tribe" to define itself...nothing more.  Pope Hawk himself is a character who's been on many people's watch list for a long time.  The URB has been a revolving door of membership for a long time....some of the former members completely unhappy with members being asked to participate in ceremonies in the nude and other questionable practices.  Pope Hawk also tends to stretch the truth.  One of his latest claims is that the URB has never been given any grant money.  A simple google search will turn up $60,000 donated to them in grant money in 2003. 

Well enough rambling.

Forget governmental definitions.  For me, being Indian starts with community and culture.  Our language still exists and the language is the blueprint of anything I see as Indian.  To speak the language means to think like the members of your community.  Everything else falls from there.

I don't live in my community these days, but I'm tied to that land and the people.  I'll always consider it home and I want to be buried there.  I'm not descended from people that were Indian....I'm part of them....I don't shop for membership with tribes....I've never had a choice.  Many people wanna glorify the existence of Indian people in this country, but the reality is...it's a tough existence.  I'm treated like a foreigner in my own country.  When I meet non-Indian people and they discover where I'm from they will tend to look at me and treat me like I grew up on a deserted island with a soccer ball for a pet.  But no matter what the treatment is like....no matter how bad it can get....that's who I am and so I spend my life searching on ways to make things better for my community. 

I think you really need to stop trying to find loopholes for a government definition of the Allegheny Lenape as a tribe.  Your focus should be on your community.  It should be on learning your language.  It shouldn't be on trying to prove to anybody that you're Indian....you should just be Indian.  I think you still have a lot to learn.  I know several Lenape....they speak their language...they come from their communities.  There's a cultural link between them and my tribe, but you exhibit none of the attributes I've learned to attribute to Lenape people.  Your regalia is seriously flawed in that regard.  Research the Lenape a little bit and you may learn some things.  Learn the Gluskabe stories, learn your language.  If you spend your life yelling to the world "I'm Indian", but you live your life as a non-Indian....you'll see that this is easily seen through.

Superdog

I know this thread is old, but I joined this group just because of what this person has said.

First, thanks for the kind comments people have left for me, and a big wave to those I know!

My real name is Keely, I use it all the time because it is who I am, and I would feel pretty silly going by a madeup name... guess I could go by "Gronk" since it was my nicname since I was very little. I am Shawnee, I am enrolled in a federally recognized nation.

Now for the reason I am posting here...


The top ten excuses people when they wannabe Indian...

10) Indians get free money every month
9) Indian dudes are so sexy with that long flowing black hair
Indian women are most curvy in their tight fringed buckskin dresses, and their long flowing black hair
7) All Indian men get to wear leggings
6) Get to wear cool feathers at your local ceremonial powwow
5) No taxes!
4) Get free health care
3) Get a free house from the government
2) Get to wear those real cool feathers at the local ceremonial powwow!
And the # 1 reason people wannabe Indian.... FREE EDUCATION!!

My son owes over 30k for his college education, I have health insurance, I have purchased my home, I pay taxes, we work for a living, we women are sexy and curvy, some of us have more curves than others, and in more places, not all of us carry feathers that are illegal for others..

I just wish, for once, one of these people will tell me why they think Indians get all these freebies, and if we are getting them, the gov is 50 years behind on my pay outs! Mostly, if people are getting these items free, tell me where to sign up... because someone forgot to tell me all about it..

Keely