Author Topic: indigenous movement  (Read 10353 times)

Offline kosowith

  • Posts: 104
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
indigenous movement
« on: March 09, 2009, 10:33:36 pm »
Today I got a message forwarded to me from a friend who had been contacted about posting information about a new group that is organizing in the Netherlands.  The man who seems to be organizing it and is setting up the web site - www.indigenousmovement goes by the name Quetzal and the entire content of his site is the following statement.

The Indigenous Movement is a non-profit organization that defends the rights of traditional medicine ceremonies, and help channelize and support projects such as Protection of land, education, art, dance and cultural patrimony.

I don’t know what channelize is, but I get a bad feeling about the name Quetzal, but perhaps it is ok -?  but he also sent the following invitation to a number of respected organizations, suggesting that the other organization were supporting him.  What really upset me is what he is charging for a person to attend this supposedly NAC prayer session.  That is NOT what I call non-profit!!


The Indigenous Movement is proud to  invite you to a healing ceremony to be preformend by representatives of the Native American Church of Denver Colorado. Saturday April 11, 2009-03-09
Cost – 100 Euro




Offline Adept

  • Posts: 66
Re: indigenous movement
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2009, 10:54:48 pm »
Today I got a message forwarded to me from a friend who had been contacted about posting information about a new group that is organizing in the Netherlands.  The man who seems to be organizing it and is setting up the web site - www.indigenousmovement goes by the name Quetzal...

Did you mean: www.indigenousmovement.com?
I only see changing words - however without any contents..
Oops - curious, like an page just lined with empty link list ???

Offline kosowith

  • Posts: 104
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Re: indigenous movement
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2009, 12:14:29 am »
no - I have IndigenousMovement.org - but all you get is an Mayan looking stella and the statement I listed.  Even on the invitation it does not tell who these NAC from Denver are or why they have to charge 100 Euro at a place that is basically a park.

Seem very strange to me.

Offline Adept

  • Posts: 66
Re: indigenous movement
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2009, 12:27:05 am »
no - I have IndigenousMovement.org - but all you get is an Mayan looking stella and the statement I listed.  Even on the invitation it does not tell who these NAC from Denver are or why they have to charge 100 Euro at a place that is basically a park.

Seem very strange to me.

www.IndigenousMovement.org

That seems really strange and for members only  ???
Perhaps a secret group of hereabout detected plasticshamans  ;D

Offline tachia

  • Posts: 141
Re: indigenous movement
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2009, 06:55:20 am »
kosowith .. i did not see anything on the link you gave about the NAC invite .. ?? where is that invite at? .. and nope they should npot be charging for it .. .. that seems really strange to me though, "representatives" of the NAC from denver? .. just the word 'representatives" is odd .. can you try to find out some names of these so called representatives"?? .. i can check with ndn friends up in denver to see if they know anything about this if you want, but it would be good to have some more information, like names ..

Offline kosowith

  • Posts: 104
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Re: indigenous movement
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2009, 07:29:23 am »
The invitation was sent to the director of an organization that I've worked with and he forwarded it on to me for my response.  This have a 39 year history of working with Indian communities, UNPOs, the UN Indigenous Peoples Forum, and other indigenous groups.  I couldn't figure how to post a closed attachment so just copied the wording.  I also tried to get names -but the guy who is sponsoring this does not answer my e-mails. I did check with the groups he claims he has worked with like NCIV, The Mapuchi Forum, Speaking4earth, and others and so far no one remembers him.

If I get anything else I will forward it on.  So far no one I know in Denver has heard of anyone heading to Europe.


Offline tachia

  • Posts: 141
Re: indigenous movement
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2009, 07:48:56 am »
i also have not heard of anyone from denver going over to europe .. that was the strange part for me .. .. if we had names it would indeed be verifiable .. .. i will see what i can find out on this too .. ..

Offline 918ndnOkie

  • Posts: 18
Re: indigenous movement
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2009, 07:27:29 pm »



The Indigenous Movement is proud to  invite you to a healing ceremony to be preformend by representatives of the Native American Church of Denver Colorado. Saturday April 11, 2009-03-09
Cost – 100 Euro






LOL its the NAC they can do what they want, because its a Christian Church at the root of it all....dont freak out so bad...NAC churches dont use traditional medicine or anything like that...they will be praying to Jesus in their native tongue and probably burning Cedar or Sage or whatever they use
aya ani'yv'-wiya.....nihi fvmbe vksi yoneg

Offline tachia

  • Posts: 141
Re: indigenous movement
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2009, 07:32:04 pm »
heya kyle ..
good to see you in here .. .. :)

i think what people are questioning(not exactly freaking out lol) .. is the fact that they are charging for this NAC thing .. selling the, umm, "ceremony" .. NAC is not Traditional, and as you pointed out it is christian base usually .. .. thanks for pointing that out .. we had not got that point yet .. just wondering why they would charge money for it ya know? .. ..

Offline tachia

  • Posts: 141
Re: indigenous movement
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2009, 11:05:11 pm »
The invitation was sent to the director of an organization that I've worked with and he forwarded it on to me for my response.  This have a 39 year history of working with Indian communities, UNPOs, the UN Indigenous Peoples Forum, and other indigenous groups.  I couldn't figure how to post a closed attachment so just copied the wording.  I also tried to get names -but the guy who is sponsoring this does not answer my e-mails. I did check with the groups he claims he has worked with like NCIV, The Mapuchi Forum, Speaking4earth, and others and so far no one remembers him.
If I get anything else I will forward it on.  So far no one I know in Denver has heard of anyone heading to Europe.

kosowith .. i also emailed the guy who is listed to email on the site you gave .. no answer yet .. will let you know if i get anything from him .. ..

Offline 918ndnOkie

  • Posts: 18
Re: indigenous movement
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2009, 11:41:26 pm »
heya kyle ..
good to see you in here .. .. :)

i think what people are questioning(not exactly freaking out lol) .. is the fact that they are charging for this NAC thing .. selling the, umm, "ceremony" .. NAC is not Traditional, and as you pointed out it is christian base usually .. .. thanks for pointing that out .. we had not got that point yet .. just wondering why they would charge money for it ya know? .. ..


im pretty sure they are charging money like Oral Roberts or Pat Roberstson would charge money to one of their shows.
just the nature of the beast ya know?

its like paying to go see a live production, because in all actuality thats what it is going to be
aya ani'yv'-wiya.....nihi fvmbe vksi yoneg

frederica

  • Guest
Re: indigenous movement
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2009, 12:19:39 am »
It says it is a non-profit organization that defends the rights of Traditional Medicine Ceremonies and supports; Protection of land, education, art, drama, and cultural patrimony.  Interesting they picked NAC, started around 1918 or so.  Not everyone considers them traditional.  Does look like more of a "show and tell", with a fee of 100 Euros.  Hard to tell just looking at the site.

Offline educatedindian

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 4742
Re: indigenous movement
« Reply #12 on: March 11, 2009, 01:31:26 am »
Reading the site I get the impression it was written by someone whose first language is Spanish, though speaking very good English. Cultural patrimony is a term much more widely used in Latin America by NDNs. I recall Rigoberta Menchu uses it a lot.

Offline kosowith

  • Posts: 104
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Re: indigenous movement
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2009, 11:39:13 am »
The guy who started this goes by the name Quetzal and does seem to be from Central America.  As to the term Cultural Patrimony - it is a term commonly used in the Indigenous Peoples Permanent Forum, and US law.  It is part of NAGPRA  [25 USC 3001 (3)(D)] and most legislation concerning sacred items passed after 1979.

First let me say, I am not a member of the NAC, But Peyote has a very long history in the Americas, the Spanish were writing about it in 1600. I understand that its use within the NAC and the mix with Christianity can be seen as not traditional, but if you talk to many Cheyenne, Kiowa, Commanche, Arapahoe, Choctaw, etc. it is considered traditional. Many ceremonial leaders are both Sun Dancers and NAC and don't see a conflict. The use of Peyote was not just in Mexico, but also in the American southwest where it is known to go go back hundreds of years. As to the S. Cheyenne, merging traditional use into the Christian church was one way to save some traditions under forced conversion. There are records of men like Roman Nose and Co-hoe who returned home from boarding school having blended the use of Peyote into the required Christianization. On a document dated 1885 Co-hoe signed it stating that he was an officer of the American Indian Peyote Church. I think I will leave me judgement of the NAC open since no one here seems to have ever actually been to a meeting or has first hand knowledge or what happens inside a meeting.  Also, according to writers like Don Coyhes, and despite the disagreements of if it is "traditional" it seems that the rules of the church are rather admirable.  No alcohol, sharing what you have, no harming of others, taking care of the family, when married no running around on your spouse, children come first...
Lakota) who was always quick to mention when people started talking about "tradition" that if you want tradition to be what was done before Columbus you have to remember to remove all horses, beads, iron, ribbon shirts, and most of what people think of when they think of American Indians.





Offline Cetan

  • Posts: 238
  • Hoka Hey
Re: indigenous movement
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2009, 03:52:03 pm »
As a member of the Native American Church I will say there are meetings that use the bible, Crossfire fireplace meetings, and those that have no mention of the bible or Jesus, Halfmoon fireplace meetings. I have been to both and while they differ in some details the main intent and piupose is the same - to pray to the Creator.