NAFPS Forum
General => Research Needed => Topic started by: Camilla on August 16, 2010, 12:42:32 pm
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Good morning everybody.
The Lakota members of the Forum will find here Words belonging to their Ways: sorry for this.
These Words are written in the below indicated links, so I couldn't do anything but write them in the same way, so that you can know what's going on.
This person ("Turtle Heart") has been living in Italy since 2003: he lives in Pantelleria, a small island South West of Sicily.
He says he is from the Ojibwai Nation, he advertises himself as an artist and a "Indian Priest". He leads Ceremonies. On the internet there are many websites about him and telephone numbers.
Here below please find the link to the introduction in English he makes about himself:
http://knol.google.com/k/turtle-heart#
Here below there is his personal number, the advertising goes (translated from Italian):
"If you like to talk personally to Turtle Heart (in english)": Cell Phone: (01139) 329.834.2157
Here below is a link advertising about a Ceremony (in Italian): please, find the English translation below the link, in blue (capital letters are used as they are used in Italian, they are not used where the Italian version do not use them):
http://www.spiritual.it/appuntamenti-e-corsi/cerimonia-inipi-capanna-sudatoria-brturtle-heart-sacerdote-della-pipa-sacra,1,103762
Event - Shamanism
Inipi Ceremony (sweat lodge)- Turtle Heart- Priest of the Sacre Pipe
The Inipi Ceremony is the Purification Rite, Sacre Place of the Spirit, Place for Prayer and Healing.
Turtle Heart, medicine man, north american native from the Ojibwe tribe, is a unique representative of his kind, keeper and spokeperson for the ancient ceremonial rites, and Sacre Pipe teachings.
He cooperates with professors of some american Universities, meditation centres, political and social leaders and is in touch with other religious leaders such as Dalai Lama from Tibet.
He is an international spokeperson for the international disclosure of the tribal ceremonial rites, a project and a wow he is indissolubly tied to, since this culture (meaning the Indian culture) is getting lost, and together with it many teachings are getting lost, teaching which could improve individuals' life and therefore all human beings' life
Here below is the link to another nuage website he is involved with:
http://www.spaziofatato.net/recturtleheart.htm
And eventually here is a telephone number that it is possible to call to have information.
The advertising goes:
If you like to have contacts in Milan (Parabiago) where Turtle Hearts periodically goes and holds ceremonies you can talk to Carlo Raimondi, mobile phone: (01139) 320.076.1933
Well, I just called: the phone works.
They told Turtle Heart usually goes to Milan (up in the North of Italy) twice a year, in June and September and leads Ceremonies on the Equinoxes, because these are the times when "balance is at its best".
The Ceremonies are Sweats and so called "Dream Ceremonies" where he sings all the night along and people, through their dreams, can find the "real" themselves.
Costs: 120.00 Euro (155.00 USD at today exchange rate) for a whole week end (Saturday and Sunday) for food, lodging and reimbursement for his travelling expenses.
That's all so far
Camilla
P.S. fraud or exploiter......
[just changed title]
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It's a strange choice of names. There used to be a very prominent fraud calling herself Turtle Heart, a blond white woman leading a fake environmentalist cult that tried to shut down every Native activist site they could, including NAFPS.
Sites of his.
http://www.smashwords.com/profile/view/sacredpipe
http://www.blogger.com/profile/09774117083029217809
http://americanindianastrology.blogspot.com/
Note that there's no such thing as Native astrology, unless you're talking about Mayan or Aztec. Even then it doesn't resemble European astrology with its zodiac and so on.
http://www.aicap.org/index2.html
Right there on the front is a prominent link to an essay where he admits ceremony selling and goes into a rambling defense of it. Basically, "the Dalai Lama and Catholic Church do it, why can't I? I need money."
And this is probably the strangest of his pages. A website calling for No Parole for Peltier.
http://wwwnoparolepeltiercom-justice.blogspot.com/
On that last site he says his name is Ed Wood. Don;t know if that's a joke, since it's the same name of notoriously bad film maker. He could very well be Ojibwe. But as for knowing ceremony, it's pretty clear if he does he's more than happy to alter it or sell it to make money.
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The Dalai Lama doesn't sell ceremony.
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I had the same reaction to the "Ed Wood" name. But it looks to me like this "Turtle Heart" just "follows" Ed Woods' blog. (link to Woods' blog in "Blogs I Follow" category on "Turtle Heart"s profile: http://www.blogger.com/profile/09774117083029217809)
As far as I know, Ed Woods (http://www.blogger.com/profile/16059810539682417508) is the guy who runs this website: http://www.noparolepeltier.com/
When Peltier's parole hearing was coming up last year, Woods called in to every Peltier-related radio show he could find, to argue against paroling Leonard. He even called in to NDN shows that were not discussing Leonard. Among some of the hosts it became a running joke that even if it wasn't a popular show that day, they knew that at least Ed would always show up to rant about Leonard. Woods is very dedicated to keeping Peltier in prison. IIRC, Woods said he is a former or current FBI agent.
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Beast regards to this group.
I am the subject of this little collection of comments, so I thought I would introduce myself.
Not one of you knows me at all, no one here has participated in my work or even been introduced to me.
First of all, Ed Woods is a retired FBI Agent In Charge, who was the one in charge of the AIM occupation of Wounded Knee in 1975, and lead the team who investigated and arrested leonard peltier. I support his work to keep peltier in prison. Along with tens of this ands of American Indians and courts and law enforcement people, we all believe peltier is guilty of murder and that he uses scams and lies to get people to send him money. It is amusing that none of you believe peltier is a liar of a fake. I absolutely do.
My father was an Ojibwe man, my mother Catabwa and Welsh. I support myself as an artist, doing paintings and sculpture and photography. I have had a transparent web site since the first days of the www, my work being archived in the permanent collection of the smithsonian in 1995.
For some years now, after 25 years of study, I have started carrying a sacred bundle around the earth. i was asked to do this by my tribal elders and teachers, who are the one who created this sacred bundle. It is a historic and sacred inter-tribal bundle. There are a group of ceremonies attached to this bundle for which I am responsible. Some of these ceremonies can be shared with people of the modern world, many of them cannot and are not. The money that comes from these ceremonies is to cover travel and food expenses only, always has been. On that measure, I have never made what you call "a profit", as most of my ceremonies end up costing me from ten to 50 per cent more than I have ever collected. I have never met an American Indian trying to share teachings with the world who has made a profit from this work. Ever.
Many tribal elders believe more American Indians need to have a seat at the tables of the world…participate and share. This is a natural and healthy desire. I have made presentations to the United Nations, leaders of world religions, and free and interested people all over the world. This work has two goals, one is to share with the world, let them know and see and hear the desires and hopes of our elders and our best ideas. I try always to do this work with respect. The other purpose is to gather prayers and songs and mystery life ceremonies to help everybody. This work is well documented and its results and experiences has been shared with tribal elders all over the USA.
I pay for my life as an artist. Selling art in Italy is very slow and not easy. So I am not in any ways a rich person. For most ceremonies, I pay myself, from my pocket, this has been true for many years and is true now.
I am a Wabeeno, a keeper of sacred pipes, sacred fires, names, dreams and what we call correction ceremonies, which includes the sweat lodge. I have den working in this way for more than 30 years at this point. I have a good relation with my tribal elders. These days I am an older man and most of my old teachers and elders have passed away.
I keep a small sacred morning tobacco fire, which is open without charge, for all people to visit the island and use it.
I am not a famous or rich person and have no interest in money or fame. I work with very small groups, usually less than ten. Over the years I have made at least three thousand ceremonies with American Indians and people from every race and culture on this mother earth. I was born into the River Otter clan of the Ahnishinabeg Aneeg, my Grandfather was a Mide-Wian at the sixth degree. I have been educated by many elders, and education I paid for myself over many years. I believe in the survival, the beauty and the power of the old Indians, of our sacred prayers, of our reasonability to work for peace and balance for everyone, everywhere at all times.
www.sacredpipe.org is my long time web site, I was one of the first people to have a web site, I was there at the very beginning making open communication a part of my work.
I do not have anything to say against the very poorly informed opinions expressed here. I am a little surprised that you all allow yourselves to be distracted with such flimsy evidence and to assume everyone must be some sort of criminal. Of course, this is a common problem among American Indians, there is a lit of anger and suspicion and resentment. It is very common to hear other American Indians talking bad about each other. I would encourage you to have some faith that some American Indians might work with the permission and under the direction of tribal grandfathers and tribal grandmothers to try and do good things in this life. I have devoted my whole life to understanding and practicing this idea. I try as best I can to live a good life and walk in balance with my relations. I hope you will do the same. It might also be useful to be better informed. There are so many errors in the comments here, it would take probably forever to correct them one by one. Otherwise, have at it and project and act out and name names. In the end I believe absolutely that each person has the power to recognize the truth when they are face to face with it. I deal in a face to face world and not in speculation where the imagination is allowed to just run unchecked. There is a difference between seeking and understanding the truth and just guessing and making things up.
Mymhenteqhous Nagamowin Gashk'ewizi
Ojibway Artist
aka Turtle Heart
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Hello, and glad you are willing to discuss. We always welcome more information that can clear these matters up.
I'm deeply skeptical of most of what you say. Most of it resembles what we've seen many times before.
You claim to be Wabeno. That movement apparently died out about a century ago.
http://books.google.com/books?id=Un5uxow5c-UC&pg=PA191&lpg=PA191&dq=wabeno+ojibwe&source=bl&ots=OXm24Pmgkr&sig=zLUfaOmQyCtAQUyh86uxOoA-LMI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=NLuJUd38DPPK4APIp4CAAw&ved=0CD8Q6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=wabeno%20ojibwe&f=false
Or are you claiming it went on in secret all this time? Or do you claim some right to revive it?
It's worth noting traditional Ojibwe elders at that time considered them frauds.
But what you're doing has little resemblance to Wabeno. That was a movement all about medicine for hunting, and displays of being able to hold burning objects with no pain or injury.
It sure doesn't have anything to do with something as crackpot as "native astrology." Do you claim this is Ojibwe practice? or are you imitating that notorious fraud Vincent Laduke/Sun Bear?
Some other claims are so much like we've seen before:
"Traditional elders support me but I won't name them." How convenient.
"I'm from one tribe but I claim to teach another's traditions." In your case you claim to teach the Five Nations.
Surely you're aware they've been Six Nations for centuries now...
And why would Five Nations be meeting in Connecticut?
"I'm doing this for the good of all NDNs, for unity, peace, for all mankind, etc."
How does setting yourself up in Italy and running a little spiritual tourism lodge and website help any of that?
If you've been doing it for 30 years, you haven't gotten very far. Seemingly very few people have ever heard of you, outside of some Italian tourists and, you claim, the unnamed elders who told you to.
There have been NDN spiritual leaders who have done remarkable work without peddling to tourists. Instead they meet with leaders, men such as Thomas Banyacya and Corbin Harney. You're nothing like them.
And the final, very silly, claim:
"You're just jealous."
You're hardly someone any of us would want to be.
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1994: Turtle Heart (Chippewa)
aka William Posey
Johannesburg CA 93528
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/alt.native/KMXYBtsJNLk (https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/alt.native/KMXYBtsJNLk)
William Frederic Posey
http://www.aicap.org/donate.html (http://www.aicap.org/donate.html)
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https://twitter.com/theSacredPipe (https://twitter.com/theSacredPipe)
Ojibwe American Indian artist, author, poet, photographer. Keeper of a sacred pipe bundle called the Four Directions Unity Bundle. Wild and beautiful.
Italy · http://www.aicap.org
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Former member of United States Army, serving in Vietnam with the 1st Infantry Division and receipent of Purple Heart.
http://www.aicap.org/shaman-art-gallery/profile.html (http://www.aicap.org/shaman-art-gallery/profile.html)
From a long blog post "Who Pays for the Sacred?":
Reasonable people understand there is a relationship between money and the infrastructure of sacred space.
There is a vocal and unrelenting, judgmental minority that pesters society on this subject. This divisive issue distracts and affects the dialogue about tribal ceremonial matters like no other issue. It has lead to accusations and a mythology that American Indian ceremonies are “free”.
Reservation communities have never had much experience in understanding or talking about money. From the beginning until the present day, money is not well understood by reservation members. Most reservation members do not grow up in the same capitalist system as modern people. It is a different there. Tribal people do not really understand money.
So, in this argument about “money” put forth from loud-talking American Indians, they are not speaking correctly. This is too bad. It has created a lot of confusion. Learning to express clearly what you really mean is a very important part in communicating with others. Clarity in communication is in fact the foundation of the sacred teachings in question.
http://sacredpipe.blogspot.com/2008/08/who-pays-for-sacred.html (http://sacredpipe.blogspot.com/2008/08/who-pays-for-sacred.html)
He's been based in Taos, New Mexico too.
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I recently read a story about myself on an Italian blog. They were wondering why I was so far from the reservation. They seemed personally offended that some American Indian that they don’t know was doing something they know nothing about. Even so, they bill themselves as the protectors of American Indians in Italy. No one asked them to do this.
Groups like this are relentless and quite numerous. They have zero official status among American Indian people. If one of the subjects of their admonishment articles contacts them they have nothing to say and run and hide their computers. This is like crying wolf or yelling fire before you know what is going on. It may not be criminal press, but it is certainly psychopathic press.
http://sacredpipe.blogspot.com/2008/08/what-place-savage.html (http://sacredpipe.blogspot.com/2008/08/what-place-savage.html)
I have received teachings from more than forty tribal elders over a period of 30 years. When I was a young man I was given Sacred Pipe. As I traveled with Sacred Pipe I was given the education which I now treasure and hope to share with others. My teachers and I agreed that I might in my own way share what we learned together.
My ceremonial work does not come from a political, governmental or ethnic agenda or authority. This bundle of sacred ideas and objects, which are the instruments of my work, was created by the male ancestors of their male children according to the rights of freedom and their own responsibility to do what they hope is right.
http://sacredpipe.blogspot.com/2008/07/turtle-heart-public-record.html (http://sacredpipe.blogspot.com/2008/07/turtle-heart-public-record.html)
I am the Keeper and Protector of the Four Directions Unity Bundle. It is perhaps the only American Indian Sacred Bundle in the history of the world which contains so many inter-tribal sacred objects
It contains 18 sacred pipes, from 18 sacred tribal people. It contains eagle feathers, sacred pottery, weavings, carvings, rattles, sacred drums, bones, songs, silences and movements from tribal medicine people, keepers of sacred, protectors of the ancient future.
http://sacredpipe.blogspot.com/2009/11/stolen-land-welcome-to-native-american.html (http://sacredpipe.blogspot.com/2009/11/stolen-land-welcome-to-native-american.html)
Over the last week, we held a name ceremony for one friend who lives in the middle of Italy. Long Arrow (Dreaming) was the name she was given.
http://sacredpipe.blogspot.com/2009/07/name-ceremony-recovering.html (http://sacredpipe.blogspot.com/2009/07/name-ceremony-recovering.html)
I recently gave my wife an Eagle Feather. In this ceremony, I will ask her to be the one who touches the people with Eagle Feather.
http://sacredpipe.blogspot.com/2009/04/sweat-lodge-in-parabiago-italy.html (http://sacredpipe.blogspot.com/2009/04/sweat-lodge-in-parabiago-italy.html)
My father was an Ojibway Indian man. I was never sure about his enrollment status. He hated being an Indian
http://sacredpipe.blogspot.com/2007/08/life-with-sacred-pipe-all-life-long.html (http://sacredpipe.blogspot.com/2007/08/life-with-sacred-pipe-all-life-long.html)
I am an American Indian religious and spiritual ceremonial teacher.
http://sacredpipe.blogspot.com/2011/07/american-indians-and-palestinians.html (http://sacredpipe.blogspot.com/2011/07/american-indians-and-palestinians.html)
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August 2007
My father was an Ojibway Indian man. I was never sure about his enrollment status. He hated being an Indian.
http://sacredpipe.blogspot.com/2007/08/life-with-sacred-pipe-all-life-long.html (http://sacredpipe.blogspot.com/2007/08/life-with-sacred-pipe-all-life-long.html)
Summer 2007
My father was an enrolled tribal member. I am not my father. He used his credentials as a cudgel to beat my brother and I into submission of his authority, just like the government
pg 19 http://www.aicap.org/volume38/aicap_bloodquantum.pdf (http://www.aicap.org/volume38/aicap_bloodquantum.pdf)
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I received this account from someone saying they are related. It includes allegations of criminal activity. I won't post those without seeing proof. But there is quite a bit about his family that can be checked on. The information about Posey's father is confirmed by SS Death Index.
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Hello,
I'm writing because I came across one of your forum webpages and wanted to provide some information. I registered for an account but perhaps a direct email might be better than creating a new account just for this.
I am a family member of the person mentioned in the following post:
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?COLLCC=3605828146&topic=2832.0
Turtle Heart is actually Fred Posey...and he is not Native American. Nor as far as I or his daughter have been able to ascertain does he really believe he's Native American.
Let me say early on that I have no ill will towards Fred. Haven't seen him in 20 years, but if he's engaging in some fraud, then based on our family history with him it's best someone knows a bit of truth about him.
Beginning around 1979 he began frequenting Native reservations...It was on one of these journeys he decided to find his spirit and become Turtle Heart.
Since that time he has traveled America and the world essentially fleeing from one...or another. I don't have a lot of proof of this but I did try and help his daughter...to find him in the 90s. Every place I called where he had been was an ear full of fraud, evictions, and unpaid bills.
...After reading the post I wanted to contribute some truth. Turtle Heart was born William Fredrick Posey in Orangeburg South Carolina to Paul Woodrow and Mary Hutto Posey. His father was a Baptist preacher who died in 1988, his mother a housemaker who passed away in 2003. He has never served in the armed services, as one commentor pointed out. Our family heritage from Fred on back is Greek and some French. Although you can trace our ancestory back to the American Revolution, there is not a drop of Native blood.
I know he's been in Italy a while selling artwork and I hope this information is useful if he is indeed commiting a fraud on the public. It's a story of 40 years of...deceit. I wish the best for Fred but my gut just says to not take everything he says at face value.
I hope this information is of use to your members.
Regards
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Attached is the 1988 obit for Rev. Paul Posey.
Find a grave memorials:
Rev Paul Woodrow Posey
Birth: Dec. 28, 1918
Death: May 24, 1988
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Posey&GSiman=1&GScid=2198490&GRid=19526139& (http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Posey&GSiman=1&GScid=2198490&GRid=19526139&)
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Mary Christine (Hutto) Posey
Birth: Sep. 13, 1926
Death: Dec. 14, 2002
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Posey&GSiman=1&GScid=2198490&GRid=19526163& (http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Posey&GSiman=1&GScid=2198490&GRid=19526163&)
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Mrs. Mary Posey (AUGUSTA, Ga.)
AUGUSTA, Ga. - Entered into rest December 14, 2002, at the West Lake Manor Health Care Center, Augusta, Ga. Mrs. Mary "Chris" Christine Posey, 76, wife of the late Rev. Paul Posey.
Mrs. Posey was born in Denmark, South Carolina. She was a member of the Powell Baptist Church
and a Homemaker. Survivors include ... Fred Posey of New Mexico
The Augusta Chronicle December 17, 2002
http://chronicle.augusta.com/stories/2002/12/17/obi_364528.shtml (http://chronicle.augusta.com/stories/2002/12/17/obi_364528.shtml)
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Shaman Art Gallery
Ojibwe Artist Turtle Heart
Turtle Heart Biography
Turtle Heart was born in 1949.
He is of Ojibwe, Catabwa and Welch ancestry.
He is a graduate of Duke Medical University, 1969
Former member of United States Army, serving in Vietnam with the 1st Infantry Division and receipent of Purple Heart.
He was the first American Indian to present his culture and work on the Internet, beginning in 1986 at MIT. He was the first American Indian to receive attention, awards and exhibitions of Digital Art in 1994
http://www.aicap.org/shaman-art-gallery/profile.html (http://www.aicap.org/shaman-art-gallery/profile.html)
Fred Posey wrote this and it looks like the only truth is his birth year. Maybe also he has some Welsh heritage, though his family member did not mention that.
He claims he graduated from Duke Medical University when he was 20 years old.
He claims distinguished military service. (Update, he did serve in military, don't see any sign of a Purple Heart)
He claims American Indian heritage and that as American Indian he was the first to "present his culture and work on the Internet, beginning in 1986 at MIT". So he supposedly also attended MIT?
He sells his art as "Ojibwe Artist Turtle Heart" which is something he could not legally do in USA.
The Indian Arts and Crafts Act of 1990 http://www.iacb.doi.gov/act.html (http://www.iacb.doi.gov/act.html)In 1997 his work with digital computer art was archived in the Permanant Collection at the Smithsonian Museum of Computer History...nominated in fact by the (then) CEO of Adobe, Inc.
http://www.aicap.org/shaman-art-gallery/index2.html (http://www.aicap.org/shaman-art-gallery/index2.html)
Adobe Board of Directors http://www.adobe.com/leaders/board-directors.html (http://www.adobe.com/leaders/board-directors.html) So which CEO nominated his work?
Smithsonian National Museum of American History, Computer History Collection http://americanhistory.si.edu/comphist/ (http://americanhistory.si.edu/comphist/) .
What exactly of his work was archived at the Smithsonian? The Smithsonian Computer History Collection doesn't look like a collection that would contain his "digital computer art".
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So which CEO nominated his work?
This is just hypothetical, but that would have to be Dr. John E. Warnock, who held the title of CEO in 1997.
Warnock served as chief executive officer of Adobe from 1982 until December 2000.
http://www.adobe.com/leaders/board-directors.html
There is no digital art in that History of Computers Smithsonian collection. I searched the database every way I could to see if his work was in some other collection, but nothing came up. However, giving him the benefit of the doubt, I did find this on the Smithsonian site:
Searching our Online Collections
As you use the online collections database, please keep the following points in mind:
The searchable collections database is not complete. The objects available for viewing on the website are only part of the Museum's total collections. We are working to expand and improve electronic access to the collections.
The search includes material from multiple sources. By default the search returns items held in the Museum's curatorial divisions, Archives Center, and Libraries. Filter controls in the right column allow you to limit your search by data source or other criteria. Or, click the "Results from All Smithsonian Collections" tab to see objects housed at other Smithsonian museums, archives, and libraries.
Most collections are not on public display. Only a small percentage of the Museum's collections can be displayed at any given time. In some cases the display status is indicated in the individual artifact record, but the status is subject to change and online information may not be current.
So, there may be a reason why we can't find his digital art at the Smithsonian, but I suspect that is highly unlikely since nothing else he has said is turning out to be true.
If there were such digital art, don't you think he would be so proud of it he would put a copy of it on his own website? But, then again, he did say it was in the History of Computers collection at the Smithsonian and it is not in that collection--just computers, other digital devices, peripherals, software, etc.
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His claims to fame regarding computers is total nonsense. I am Native and worked on what is now called the Internet
prior to 1986. The "Internet" was text-based and used by the U.S. Government, research companies (mostly computer
companies) and colleges and universities. There were no web browsers, there was no World Wide Web and one had
to be intimately fluent in computer commands at command level in order to do anything on the Internet. I worked with
several students from M.I.T. in the early 1980's and Fred certainly wasn't one of them. I'd be interested to know which
operating system he used and which utility programs and commands he used to communicate, transfer files, etc.
So we have a child prodigy who graduated from Duke Medical University in 1969 at age 20, was in the computer industry
during the birth of the Internet in the early 1980's, meddled in computer art and was nominated for his work with digital
computer art by the CEO of Abode, Inc. (Bruce Chizen?) and his work is archived in the Permanent Collection at the
Smithsonian Museum of Computer History. Lemme grab my boots and shovel.
http://www.thepurpleheart.com/recipient/
A William F. Posey from Lorain, Ohio is listed as being a Purple Heart recipient. I don't know if this is the same person
or not and will investigate further.
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William Franklin Posey, was born on May 24, 1920, was from Lorain, Ohio, and died in 2009 at age 89.
Is there even one shred of truth in anything Mr. Poser claims?????
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William Franklin Posey, was born on May 24, 1920, was from Lorain, Ohio, and died in 2009 at age 89.
Is there even one shred of truth in anything Mr. Poser claims?????
The National Purple Heart Hall of Honor doesn't have a listing of all Purple Heart recipients:
With your help we are building a registry of Purple Heart recipients from all branches of service
http://www.thepurpleheart.com/faqs/ (http://www.thepurpleheart.com/faqs/) - but this is still important to know, our guy is not this William F Posey. And we still need those boots, shovels, and I'm thinking hard hats and gloves too. :)
Loudcrow's computer info is also very important, Fred Posey writes often about his supposed computer history.
Autumn, I'm with you on that art, surely if his art was in the Smithsonian anything, he'd have a copy of it on his web site.
Hopefully we can eventually find more on his father - census, military records etc. could help. Fred's claim: "My father was an enrolled tribal member.".
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1940 U.S. Census:
Name: Paul W Posey
Titles and Terms:
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1940
Event Place: Ward 5, Vincennes, Vincennes Township, Knox, Indiana, United States
Gender: Male
Age: 21
Marital Status: Single
Race (Original): W
Race: White
Relationship to Head of Household (Original): Employee
Relationship to Head of Household: Employee
Birthplace: Indiana
Birth Year (Estimated): 1919
Last Place of Residence: Same Place
District: 42-26
Family Number: 679
Sheet Number and Letter: 81A
Line Number: 12
Affiliate Publication Number: T627
Affiliate Film Number: 1061
Digital Folder Number: 005459817
Image Number: 00167
Household Gender Age Birthplace
Head Richard Moran M 73 Indiana
Wife Mary E Moran F 68 Indiana
Employee Mary Dallas Childress F 46 Kentucky
Employee Paul W Posey M 21 Indiana
Lodger Ovel Morgan M 43 Indiana
Sources
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I wonder if this 1994 solicitation was to help someone else or actually for himself.
alt.native ›386 for an Elderly Lady
William Frederic Posey
2/8/94
Dear Friends: (help this Elder)
I am looking for a donation of a used 386 computer with good hardware
for an elderly lady who lives all alone in the S California desert.
... she loves computers and spends more and more time with them since her
husband passed away last year...she has a real aptitude and this work makes her happy. She is VERY
poor.
Right now she has a piece of trash 286 that someone
gave here.
If I had the money I would get her a 486, but I am not a banker myself. I do have a modem and
software to share with her.
I am a Native American artist and I am willing to TRADE one of my stone sculptures to anyone
who might want to bring a little light to this fine lady's life.
Respectfully:
Turtle Heart (Chippewa)
aka William Posey
Johannesburg CA 93528
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/alt.native/KMXYBtsJNLk/_hNp1vvzYRQJ (https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/alt.native/KMXYBtsJNLk/_hNp1vvzYRQJ)
-
That 1940 census looks definitely like a match.
If so, he was white, born in Indiana, working as a hotel clerk in a hotel.
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Paul W Posey, "Georgia, Death Index, 1933-1998"
Name: Paul W Posey
Event Type: Death
Event Date: 24 May 1988
Event Place: Richmond, Georgia
Registration Date: 31 May 1988
District/Parish/County: Richmond
Gender: Male
Age: 69
Race: W
Birth Year (Estimated): 1919
Record Type:
Certificate Number: 022667
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Paul W Posey, "United States, World War II Army Enlistment Records, 1938-1946"
Name: Paul W Posey
Name (Original): POSEY PAUL W
Event Type: Military Service
Event Date: 10 Feb 1941
Term of Enlistment:
Event Place: Ft Benjamin Harrison, Indiana, United States
Residence Place:
Race: White
Citizenship Status: citizen
Birth Year: 1918
Birthplace: INDIANA
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Looks like you and I are on the same page, Epiphany :)
Name: Mary Hutto
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1930
Event Place: Holly Hill, Orangeburg, South Carolina
Gender: Female
Age: 6
Marital Status: Single
Race: White
Birthplace: South Carolina
Birth Year (Estimated): 1924
Immigration Year:
Relationship to Head of Household: Daughter
Father's Birthplace: South Carolina
Mother's Birthplace: South Carolina
District: 0031
Household ID: 234
Sheet Number and Letter: 12B
Line Number: 65
Affiliate Publication Number: T626, roll 2208
GS Film number: 2341942
Digital Folder Number: 4547337
Image Number: 00484
Household Gender Age Birthplace
Head Mood Hutto M 30 South Carolina
Wife Esther Hutto F 26 South Carolina
Daughter Mary Hutto F 6 South Carolina
Son Jack Hutto M 3 South Carolina
Son Mood Hutto M 1 South Carolina
The genealogy of the Hutto family is well-documented. They are of European origin.
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http://www.examiner.com/article/italian-cuisine-discovering-the-importance-of-capers
William F. Posey 3 years ago
I am an American who moved to Pantelleria five years ago. before coming here I had only experienced capers in the little bottles common in USA supermarkets. However, the taste of really correctly preserved capers in salty bags is the only way to buy them. Bottle capers are about the least interesting way to obtain them. Over here we buy them in sacks, wash the capers, then store them in olive oil for daily use. I was really surprised how fantastic "real" capers are. You can make a great "dip" by blending capers with a little mayonnaise or similar condiment, along with a bit of olive oil. Very fine and simple and delicious.
W F Posey 3 years ago
Gathering: Pantelleria capers are gathered by hand. The entire Pantesche family participates in the short but grueling season. gathering begins before the sun come up. The gathering stops before mid-day. Everyone returns home and process the days collection. the work is done by hands and fingers. there are no machines involved. the capers are also gathered and cured in the family home before being brought to a cooperative for packaging. It is really quite hard work.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One and the same person.
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Name: Paul Posey
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1930
Event Place: Vincennes, Knox,
Indiana
Gender: Male
Age: 11
Marital Status: Single
Race: White
Birthplace: Indiana
Birth Year (Estimated): 1919
Immigration Year:
Relationship to Head of Household:
Son
Father's Birthplace: Indiana
Mother's Birthplace: Indiana
Head Canis Posey M 39 Indiana
Wife Aurella Posey F 36 Indiana
Son Paul Posey M 11 Indiana
--------
This transcription lists his father as "Canis" but I think that is incorrect, same family in 1920 has father as "Louis". Everyone white in census.
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sacredpipe.org registry whois
Updated 1 second ago - Refresh
Domain ID:D167557918-LROR
Domain Name:SACREDPIPE.ORG
Created On:10-Jan-2013 17:41:19 UTC
Last Updated On:12-Mar-2013 03:46:00 UTC
Expiration Date:10-Jan-2015 17:41:19 UTC
Sponsoring Registrar:Domain.com, LLC (R1915-LROR)
Status:CLIENT TRANSFER PROHIBITED
Status:CLIENT UPDATE PROHIBITED
Registrant ID:tuTTMbiX8iLWENqH
Registrant Name:William Posey
Registrant Organization:AICAP Group
Registrant Street1:via caseneddra, no. 5
Registrant Street2:
Registrant Street3:
Registrant City:Panelleria
Registrant State/Province:NA
Registrant Postal Code:91017
Registrant Country:IT
Registrant Phone:+039.3298342157
Registrant Phone Ext.:
Registrant FAX:
Registrant FAX Ext.:
Registrant Email:email@gmail.com
Admin ID:tuQsMNdOMRyYKURb
Admin Name:William Posey
Admin Organization:AICAP Group
Admin Street1:via caseneddra, no. 5
Admin Street2:
Admin Street3:
Admin City:Panelleria
Admin State/Province:NA
Admin Postal Code:91017
Admin Country:IT
Admin Phone:+039.3298342157
Admin Phone Ext.:
Admin FAX:
Admin FAX Ext.:
Admin Email:email@gmail.com
Tech ID:tu91gWFRH0CpwuYY
Tech Name:Eric White
Tech Organization:FatCow
Tech Street1:10 Corporate Dr., Suite 300
Tech Street2:
Tech Street3:
Tech City:Burlington
Tech State/Province:MA
Tech Postal Code:01803
Tech Country:US
Tech Phone:+1.8882789780
Tech Phone Ext.:
Tech FAX:+1.7812726550
Tech FAX Ext.:
Tech Email:email@fatcow.com
Name Server:NS1.FATCOW.COM
Name Server:NS2.FATCOW.COM
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
DNSSEC:Unsigned
-
Mr. Poser's website sacredpipe.org was coded in 1999 and used the first version of HTML. In December 1999, there
were 9,560,866 websites.
-
Name: Canis Posey
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1930
Event Place: Vincennes, Knox, Indiana
Gender: Male
Age: 39
Marital Status: Married
Race: White
Birthplace: Indiana
Birth Year (Estimated): 1891
Immigration Year:
Relationship to Head of Household: Head
Father's Birthplace: Indiana
Mother's Birthplace: Indiana
District: 0027
Household ID: 75
Sheet Number and Letter: 3B
Line Number: 85
Affiliate Publication Number: T626, roll 597
GS Film number: 2340332
Digital Folder Number: 4584692
Image Number: 00054
Household Gender Age Birthplace
Head Canis Posey M 39 Indiana
Wife Aurella Posey F 36 Indiana
Daughter Grace Posey F 13 Indiana
Son Paul Posey M 11 Indiana
Daughter Marjory Posey F 9 Indiana
Son Ellwood Posey M 6 Indiana
Daughter Aurella Posey F 3 Indiana
======================================================================================================================
"My Grandfather was a Mide-Wian at the sixth degree. "
This certainly does not appear to be the truth as both of your grandfathers are listed as White on the U.S. Census records
and neither of them lived on or near the Ojibwa.
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Turtle Heart = William Fredrick Posey
His father Paul W Posey born Indiana is white in census 1920, 1930, 1940 - military records - death.
Paul W. Posey's father is William Louis Posey, born Indiana 1891, white in all census and military. Both William Louis Posey's parents from Indiana.
If Turtle Heart/Fred Posey's father and grandfather were truly enrolled, we would have found records like this:
William Posey
Date of Birth: abt 1888
Age:1
Gender:Male
Relation to Head of Household: Son
Tribe: Ojibwe (Ojibbeway)
Agency: La Pointe
State:Wisconsin
Census Date: 7 Sep 1889
But his people are not Ojibwe from Wisconsin, they are white from Indiana.
-
I asked Posey to give his side. He sent a series of angry emails in less than a day, the usual excuses, defenses, claims of persecution, and even implied threats (I have a lawyer, I know who you are etc) we've all seen before. I'll post all of his emails whole, and then my responses in another post.
-------
trash tossed around by strangers is inevitable.
My long life speaks for itself from people who actually know me personally. I have no idea and no interest at all in who you are or your agenda. Bitter and angry people feed their bitterness and anger just so. Pay attention. My life is measured in reality not the projection of strangers looking for someone to trash.
Best Regards
------
Dear Dwellers In the Trash,
I wrote a document Blood Quantum, Tribal Enrollment and Platic Indians which is my studied response to an organization like yours.
I would be happy to send you a copy for free.
here…click this link to download it….
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/350526/Blood%20Quantum%2C%20Enrollment%2C%20Imaginary%20Indians%20and%20Plastic%20Shamans%20-%20a%20knol%20by%20Turtle%20Heart.pdf
Your group exists by accusation and inferences that rarely, as far as I can tell, involve any direct knowledge or experience with the subjects of your slander. Sometimes you seem to get it right, many times you seem to get it wrong.
While I share your concerns about ethics, I have no interest and no need to defend my long life to an organization as lacking in credibility. I have written widely acorss many platforms about the errors and frauds pepetuated by new age groups, including yours.
Publishing accusations randomly submitted by strangers is what sort of activity?
I know very well who the bitter and lost person who is making statements to you about me. My life is in the hands and history of my long work around this mother earth. My conscious and my actual history are clear and sweet.
You are self appointed people. You have no authority, no voice, and no credibility in the real world, certainly none whatsoever with American Indian communities.
You have the freedom to publish whatever you like. It is not up to me to encourage or deny you the privelage to publish slander sent to you by strangers. You make your own choices every day.
My choice is not to participate in your exercise. I have no fear of the truth, absolutely, and none whatsoever of your group, whose work is far more hyped in your own minds than in the real world. Make things up about me and publish them as you may choose.
Turtle Heart
Ojibwe Artist
aka William Fredric Posey
aka Keeper of the Four Directions Unity Bundle
aka Keeper of the Sacred Pipes of the Eastern Gate
------
Best regards, my final though on your blunt and mannerless email:
I do not mind saying, for the public record, I have had no contact with my birth or marriage family for more than 35 years. I was
married and had a child, we divorced, she married another man, in common law or legally I am not sure and I never heard from my so-called family ever in all those years, more than 35.
One could write poetry, pen operas and make movies about all the could have been, should have been, might have been with families.
During the time I was with my family, my ex-wife passed away some years ago, I treated them very well and worked hard. After the divorce we all lost touch, until now. I have a clear conscious.
Occasionally I get messages of rage from someone in my old family. I am not the fist or last person to loose all contact with a dysfunctional family.
My belief is that you are being "rope.a-doped" by an angry family member of my ex-wife, not my family, who has recently emerged full of rage and crazy thoughts and acusations that I was never in the army, that I am some sort of criminal, threatening to tell the whole world. I think this woman is a child of my late ex-wife's previous marriage. I have not seen that person since they were 6 or 7 years old.
I would hope you would consider validating your information and not publishing things that are just made up from angry people without names.
Don't you ever get suspicious about people who "turn other people in"?
In some ways, i expect you think you are doing something good. From here you look like bullies. You have no mandate to question my
life, or any person's life. In another way, I am not afraid of or ashamed of my life. I have lived my adult life in service to tribal elders
who know me, teach me, guide me and who saved me from the life of bitterness and paranoia demonstrated in these accusations. It is stressful being accosted by strangers on the internet…and to what purose?
I have no criminal record, I have certified copies of my military service. I have worked for and with tribal communities all across the United States.
The only legal authority to question any aspect of my life resides with tribal elders. (Aside from the justice department if a person violtes the law. I have not.)
No other person or agency has any authorty or privilege in this regards. I have and remain on good terms with a circle of American Indian elders who know and approve my work, every day. I do not make a profit from my work, usually I have to pay the costs, or most of them. I am an artist and a student of the tribal elders of the American earth. My ancestors were catabwa (edisto), ojibwe and celtic. I
did the research and found that out and went in their direction and found those teachers. I do not hide my mixed-racial ancestry from anyone. Many people have Indians or other nationalities in their families and never do anything about it. I did something about it after my marrage went away decades ago. I found those old Indians that once were my ancestors and rebuilt my connection to, my love
for, and my life-long commitment to them. I celebrate that fact every day and in long memories of ceremonies, corrections, purifications, face to face with my tribal elders and tecahers….face to face and breath to breath, eyes wide open.
I presently live in Italy. In Italy personal privacy is a very serious matter. Publishing false information about a resident or citizen of Italy (I am married to an Italian woman) is a serious crime, punishable by prison time.
In the USA you have some liscense to publish and write about people, but theire are limits to both reason and law. I hope you will not
just make things up. Freedom of Speech does not mean free from liability, even in the USA.
Pay attention. This is my final word for your mannerless email to me. Don't make things up. I know who you are. I share with you what I hope is a mutual respect for the truth.
Becoming an agent for a hysterical and angry relative with a 40 year old personal grudge and bitterness might not be the most sound basis on which to develop an accusation agenda. Respectfully,
Turtle Heart, Ojibwe Artist
ccs:legal (S.Orlando, Palermo)
ccs:Silvia Santi
-----
Evidence? Evidence is as evidence does. You are strangers who spend your time with your imaginations and little else. i was generous
to tell you anything at all. Clearly you are just going to make things up and spin them to your agenda, so have at it.
I don't care. You are strangers, litle more than a self-sustaining hate group, and clearly no patience, credibility or power to discover very much about who anyone is. However your white racist foundations are clear enough.
Telling? Let me tell you, nothing else.
Everone gets on your bullshit forum sooner or later I guess it is my turn.
So post that. barking dogs and ghosts in your own lives, have at it.-
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My emails to him. The link referred to is in the previous post,, his long ramble about blood quantum and defense of plastic shame ons.
--------
Hello,
I received an account about you that I'd like to hear your side of. It was just posted on nafps.
I did not post the allegations of criminal activity, and won't until and unless I receive definitive proof. The claim was of a long history of...deception about your ancestry, and no contact with family because of scamming them for decades.
-------
All the evidence we have found shows that your family is entirely of European ancestry. There is no evidence of you having any contact with elders except your word, or having any credibility amongst actual Native communities. There is also no evidence of military service or any art of yours at the Smithsonian.
It is also quite telling that your link defends some notorious frauds as authentic, that you describe with pride disrupting a meeting of actual Natives with a New Age imitation of Buddhist ceremony, and that you mistakenly imagine this is about blood quantum or enrollment. Neither of the last two matter to as as we have many members who are unenrolled or mixed. The silly accusation from you is the stock argument of New Age exploiters who have never experienced true prejudice.
I will post your responses, but you remain welcome to respond yourself at the forum.
------
If we were truly as vicious as you fantasize, why didn't we post the accusations of your [deleted]?
Unlike you, we take care with our words and back up what we say with proof.
It is amusing to see your pseudo spiritual front completely fall away.
We have your genealogy posted and it shows every last ancestor as white, that you made up claims of where you lived, who you met, and what you've done.
Bluster won't change that, and neither will cursing like a 12 year old who mistakenly think that makes him sound tough.
I'll post your last response as well, and any future ones.
-
I found those old Indians that once were my ancestors and rebuilt my connection to
This is a quote from Posey's email above. He writes of "old Indians" really often. It's his catch phrase. I'd noticed it before and wondered why he seems to be speaking of living cultures most often as "old Indians". Nothing wrong with old, and he often now writes of feeling his own age, but the way he writes "old Indians" seems like someone who learns mostly from books written by outsiders. Below is just a sample from his writings online:
The old Indians always told me that, my friend, whatever you need is not far away. Many of the old Indians and their children are on the move these days.
To the old American Indians, an equinox or solstice is considered a gateway, an opening.
He even seems to trust them….more than he trusts the old Indians
These ancient ceremonies are called “Correction Ceremonies” by the old Indians.
It is my life…to keep my promises to the old Indians.
No matter what the old Indians have to say on the matter,
Omissions of correct behavior about what the sweat lodge is and to whom it belongs is of great concern to the old Indians.
These old Indians I knew, if you spent time with them, these kind of questions never came up
He's now also positioned himself to be the "old Indian" where he lives.
-
More of his claims:
8.First reburial ceremony of American Indian remains in the world. The first official tribal reburial ceremony, of bones repatriated by a museum under the NAGPRA, to the Five Tribes of Connecticut was conducted by Turtle Heart. The ceremony took place on land donated by the state and included representatives of all Five Tribes, as well as the tribes of Massachusetts in the re-naming and reburial of five Tunxis American Indians.
9.First formally established prison program for American Indian inmates in prisons. This was negotiated with and agreed upon by the state of Connecticut. That program is still going with two full time and one part time employee. Turtle Heart established the items, procedures and program required for inter tribal religious worship in Federal and State prisons. All existing programs in fifty states still follow this model.
He also says he's been giving out names:
6.Tribal name ceremonies to tribal children. In Connecticut, Massachusetts, New Mexico and Washington State.
http://www.aicap.org/accomplish.html (http://www.aicap.org/accomplish.html)
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From sacredpipe.org website:
"The Long River Sacred Pipe was created by a Lakota family, a multi-generational family of pipe makers. It was blessed by tribal councils of many tribes of American Indians. It was formally blessed and recognized as a gift for the Five Tribes. It went in a circle around Turtle Island being blessed and cleansed by a large circle of tribal elders from many tribes. It was carried around this circle by an Ojibwe man who at that time was an artist, a keeper of ceremonies, a maker of ceremonial objects. It was and is very rare for so many ceremonial people to share in the creation and hope for one ceremonial pipe, one sacred tribal object."
I know NAFPS has members who can ask around about this pipe that was given to the Five Tribes by Mr. Poser. I'd be interested to hear if there's any truth to this
although I highly doubt it.
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This is the story of his pipe written in his own words. Basically, he's more a romanticist of where he really is. The story he tells is interesting, but I'd like to point a few things out. It only talks about "ceremonies" involving the state recognized tribes in CT. Nowhere else. He calls himself a sacred pipe carrier of the Eastern gate, which is odd....there's more tribes in the east than in CT. So...that's a bit of fluff. I only recognize Slow Turtle out of the names he mentions, who was Wampanoag (if this is the same person we're both talking about.) So...he fluffs himself and the story up quite a bit, but what it boils down to is a few individuals including Posey and some members of the state recognized CT tribes. Not much else. Claiming to be a priest is a bit much. I do like some of your art though.
http://www.aicap.org/sacredpipe/narrative1.html
Superdog
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The Sherman mentioned was Sherman Paul. He crossed in 2011 and was from Tobique (Maliseet reserve in NB). Mikki Aganstata was Sherman's wife, I'm not sure of her tribal affiliation. She was the head of Commission on Indian Affairs in CT. She lives in Florida now. Big Eagle was Aurelius H. Piper of the Golden Hill Paugussett, he crossed in 2008.
ETA - I am assuming that when he refers to the five tribes, Mr. Posey is talking about the Wabanaki Confederacy. I'm wondering why anyone aside from Sherm was involved with his pipe thingie. I'm thinking that my Wabanaki friends will be displeased to know the confederacy is being associated with Mr. Posey and that in Mr. Posey's mind he had to bring ceremony back to them...ummm...yeah. It's also a little strange that he didn't know Sherm's last name but called him Sherman Maliseet instead. If he was as close to Mr. Paul as he insinuates he would have called him Sherm ;)
-
I am assuming that when he refers to the five tribes, Mr. Posey is talking about the Wabanaki Confederacy.
I'd disagree. Before the Mashantuckets and Mohegans gained federal recognition they were organized as wards of the state of CT along with the Golden Hill Paugussetts, Eastern Pequot, Pawcatuck, Schgaticokes etc were organized under an agreement with the state. A commission on Indian affairs for the state of CT (for some reason the name eludes me). After the Mashantuckets and Mohegans gained federal recognition they walked away from this commission leaving it without a quorum. The commission still exists, but is unable to function in the govt to govt relationship it was meant to be without those tribes sending reps (which they still could, but for some reason haven't). I don't see any relationship to the Wabanaki confederacy other than some individuals who were from those tribes.
However...something that might of interest. There's some good research coming out of the Mashantucket museum that shows how the need to work and live (as their land granted by treaties was summarily reduced to less than a quarter of their original territories) moved many tribes in CT/RI/MA to have mixed Native neighborhoods in the coastal towns (whaling was a big industry back in the day in this area and many Natives worked in it, even owning their own ships and crews). These neighborhoods nearly always coincided with poorer sides of towns and were mixed with Italian and African-American neighborhoods (where for a few centuries some natural mixing happened). From the colonial period through statehood, colonial/state authorities maintained control of identity of what was a Native. The colonials/state governments also engaged in a yearly counting of Native people on their reservations. People who mixed with other tribes were recorded as "colored" and "mulatto" rather than "Indian" in an effort to destroy their identities. It's also through the 1700's and into the 1800's that several people were written about in publications as "The Last of (whatever tribe they were writing about) leading the non-Indians to believe these people didn't exist anymore. Eventually they did organize a relationship with the state which is the council that exists today.
So for me, he's referring to CT or New England tribes and the fact that he ended up in Italy....is not a surprise as a lot of Italians in communities (throughout different pockets of the US even) self-identified as Native sometimes (i.e. Iron Eyes Cody (Sicilian born parents) and Chief Jay Strongbow (Italian born parents)).
So, I don't think Posey is necessarily lying....he's romanticizing his life story to make it more interesting. Wabanaki tribes have no "sacred pipe" tradition. Everyone had pipes...sharing tobacco (especially high quality tobacco) was as much social as it was spiritual and sharing a pipe was similar to sharing a meal in most instances. There is no recognized "Sacred Pipe of the Eastern Gate"....that sounds to me like it's more of a Lakota tradition that's was applied in a foreign land (CT), which did happen quite a bit around this time of his story.
(adding something else)...the title of Posey's account in the link I posted is named: "The story of the arrival of a Sacred Pipe,
blessed by many American Indian elders and ceremonies,
to the Five Tribes of Connecticut (short version)"
Superdog
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My misunderstanding came from "That the Five Tribes are presently the eastern-most located of the American Indians in the USA.", which would be the Confederacy ;)
-
I can see that. Around the 70's to the 90's a lot of southern New England tribes referred to themselves and traditions as "Eastern" without regard to tribes that were actually further East or the East coast tribes to the south of them. Posey seems to be a product of that time period.
Superdog
-
....So for me, he's referring to CT or New England tribes and the fact that he ended up in Italy....is not a surprise as a lot of Italians in communities (throughout different pockets of the US even) self-identified as Native sometimes (i.e. Iron Eyes Cody (Sicilian born parents) and Chief Jay Strongbow (Italian born parents)).
So, I don't think Posey is necessarily lying....he's romanticizing his life story to make it more interesting. Wabanaki tribes have no "sacred pipe" tradition. Everyone had pipes...sharing tobacco (especially high quality tobacco) was as much social as it was spiritual and sharing a pipe was similar to sharing a meal in most instances. There is no recognized "Sacred Pipe of the Eastern Gate"....that sounds to me like it's more of a Lakota tradition that's was applied in a foreign land (CT), which did happen quite a bit around this time of his story.
(adding something else)...the title of Posey's account in the link I posted is named: "The story of the arrival of a Sacred Pipe,
blessed by many American Indian elders and ceremonies,
to the Five Tribes of Connecticut (short version)"
Superdog
Posey's site is the only place I see online that refer to "5 Tribes of CT" as though they were a group comparable to Iroquois Confderacy. Like you point out, it's just a very brief political association, not even around anymore. And these tribes were highly intermarried and often had to hide for centuries. I saw a woman set up as a "Pequot astrologer" at a powwow in Rhode Island.
Posey doesn't claim to be from one of the CT tribes though, nor Italian. He claims he's Ojibwe (later adding in also Catawba) who was handed a Lakota pipe by unnamed elders who somehow wound up doing Lakota-style pipe ceremonies for CT tribes with mostly unnamed elders...and then was told by them to go to Italy and run a bed and breafast spiritual tourism business while doing ceremony and public appearances in regalia.
Even his claims about who he is keep changing. Doesn't seem to have taken the name Turtle Heart until about 10 years ago, before that using Posey. Sometimes claiming he had contact with family, but then in his angry emails admitted he hadn't seen any family for 35 years. Sometimes saying his father was Ojibwe, but then also claiming his grandfather was a spiritual leader.
All of these, even if his own words are true and every last written document showing all family were whites from Indiana are somehow false...it adds up to very tenous connections at best. How believable is it for a spirchul guy to have no contact for that long and then set yourself up as a priest in Italy?
The one thing I do believe that he said was that he likely doesn't make much money from any of this. The art does show he's immersed himself in some aspects of the culture, though there are obvious Nuage tendencies like doing a Nuage knockoff of a Buddhist ceremony. I agree with you that in some ways he's more like "Iron Eyes Cody" playing a role he starts to believe himself.
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Turtle Heart Born 03 February 1949
http://www.aicap.org/turtle-heart/?page_id=2 (http://www.aicap.org/turtle-heart/?page_id=2)
William F. Posey and his family in 1956 traveled to England together, his father was in the military.
Attached here are clips from the records. Same exact birthdate. This is the same family we've been researching all along.
(Source Information: Ancestry.com. UK Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations Inc, 2008.)
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According to the information at sacredpipe.org, he used to go by the name "Winterstone".
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Loudcrow, Posey says in this book on page 182 that his first comp was an IBM 8086, around 1981. He says he was visiting Manhattan and then stayed for 4 years.
http://books.google.com/books?id=Q7dgWYaDHTUC&lpg=PP1&pg=PA182#v=onepage&q&f=false (http://books.google.com/books?id=Q7dgWYaDHTUC&lpg=PP1&pg=PA182#v=onepage&q&f=false)
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According to the information at sacredpipe.org, he used to go by the name "Winterstone".
William Winterstone. Ojibway ceremonial leader and keeper of sacred bundles.
http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Talk:Scientology_infiltrates_Indian_Nations (http://wikileaks.org/wiki/Talk:Scientology_infiltrates_Indian_Nations)
This clipping from 1981
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1454&dat=19811031&id=-OBOAAAAIBAJ&sjid=HBQEAAAAIBAJ&pg=808,6987888 (http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1454&dat=19811031&id=-OBOAAAAIBAJ&sjid=HBQEAAAAIBAJ&pg=808,6987888)
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This 1985 clip may help with fact checking what family members have claimed.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=JsdDAAAAIBAJ&sjid=q64MAAAAIBAJ&dq=william-winterstone&pg=3082%2C3007052 (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=JsdDAAAAIBAJ&sjid=q64MAAAAIBAJ&dq=william-winterstone&pg=3082%2C3007052)
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William Winterstone
November 25, 2008
Passito. I am an American who lives on Pantelleria island. Here Passito is usually considered a fresh wine…
http://scienceblogs.com/terrasig/2008/11/21/the-friday-fermentable-mediter/ (http://scienceblogs.com/terrasig/2008/11/21/the-friday-fermentable-mediter/)
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Here is the full Star-News - Oct 31, 1981 article clipped and put in .pdf
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American Indian Computer Art project BBS
House of Song Dog
Lilliwaup WA 98555
This is a very unique and specialized service. It is truly one-to-one
personal service.Turtle Heart has many credentials in these areas and is a caring
and articulate reader. The BBS offeres a unique, in-depth and personal
reading service unique in its richness and depth.
This conference is dedicated to providing readings, counsel and
learning from the combined medicine forms of Astrology, Oriental
medicine, and focused native american practices.
http://artifacts.textfiles.com/206/206-877-9004/Conferences%20List.txt (http://artifacts.textfiles.com/206/206-877-9004/Conferences%20List.txt)
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Wow, Piff. Well done!
Here's a really interesting read:
http://books.google.com/books?id=Q7dgWYaDHTUC&pg=PA181&lpg=PA181&dq=%22American+Indian+Computer+Art+Project%22&source=bl&ots=k0lZp8XhLQ&sig=eMg9MLSsU7uEifMZjpof8gLGYUc&hl=en&sa=X&ei=43SpUfH1N6OEygHHzYC4Bg&ved=0CFYQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=%22American%20Indian%20Computer%20Art%20Project%22&f=false
The problem is William Frederick Posey/Turtle Heart/William Winterstone is NOT Native American.
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This looks to be his sockpuppet:
Books from Turtle Heart (Winterstone)
« Thread Started on Mar 3, 2013, 5:44am »
He is a great writer, artist and keeper of the sacred, If you can read thru his blogs about the Four Directions Unity Bundle and the travel around the world. Many teachings on several websites, check them out:
http://sacredpipe.blogspot.ae/
http://www.aicap.org/
http://aicap.org/eBook_main.htm
I have bought all his ebooks and they are all a great read. I also donate, that is a personal thing, not a solicitation here. Some ebooks and such are free.
look around and tell me what you think.....
I gained a whole new understanding of the sacred.
Jim
http://nativeamerican.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=books&thread=1004&page=1 (http://nativeamerican.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=books&thread=1004&page=1)
sleepyjim I am Tsalagi (Cherokee), a veteran, a defense contractor and am
working the big sand box...
Re: Greetings from the Middle East
« Result #17 on Feb 10, 2013, 9:18am »
I left my bundle at home safe, I was told the Arabs do not look kindly on ceremonies of most kinds......
That being said I know a few Emirates who would welcome/host something....But not many could know about it or else bad news for them......Maybe even me.
Another reason I am sooo ready to come back home.
Jim
Member bio says 50 years old.
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Circles of Light
Tribal elders finding role for wizardry of Internet
By Dan Pacheco Denver Post Staff Writer March 30, 1995
"Dear World:
"For reasons which may become apparent over time, I have become a scout or a runner in this Internet. I drop songs as my offerings as I seek along this new migration path, this Cyber-Bearing Crossing, a new route for singing, a new trail for the dust of our clinging to the tribal contract with this sacred creation."
Speaking from the middle of the parched Mojave Desert in Johannesburg, Calif., 45-year-old artist Turtle Heart uses the computer and modem to breathe new life into an ancient message of an oft-forgotten people.
"There's been so much written about native people, but none of it by native people. The Internet is the best tool in 500 years to give native peoples a voice," he said.
http://futureforecast.com/danpacheco/clips/circles.htm (http://futureforecast.com/danpacheco/clips/circles.htm)
And here he is on HuffPost http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/Turtle_Heart?action=comments (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/Turtle_Heart?action=comments)
Youtube http://www.youtube.com/user/Ahnishinabe (http://www.youtube.com/user/Ahnishinabe)
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And here he is on HuffPost http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/Turtle_Heart?action=comments (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/Turtle_Heart?action=comments)
Youtube http://www.youtube.com/user/Ahnishinabe (http://www.youtube.com/user/Ahnishinabe)
He is quite prolific on Huffington Post. He has 451 comments in the less than two years he joined as a commenter.
Someone has his number on the forum. Check out this comment:
Commented Nov 3, 2012 at 14:54:34 in World
“Italy. I moved here 8 years ago and my standard of living immediately went WAY up. My life here is many times better in terms of quality of life, actual money, and social connections and very much better in terms of food and housing. Only thing, is very hard to find peanut butter here, and I miss my New mexico green chiles...otherwise getting out of USA was best move I have made with my life ever. From over here, the USA looks really rather nuts.”
And the reply:
Bruskie on Nov 3, 2012 at 15:17:41
“Great to hear from you Turtle Heart. Also, the United States Is gleefully joyous that you have left, and we feel likewise that you leaving was one of the best things for us and our country. Good Riddance!”
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This Posey surname line is actively researched by many. Indiana births back to 1837. Virginia and Maryland prior to that. A birth 1652 in Maryland, parents from France (Francois Poschet, born 1615) and England.
Civil war and American Revolution both represented.
The Francis Posey = Francois Poschet belief is hotly debated online. But Francois Poschet is the believed first immigrant patriarch of this Posey line.
Looking over census records myself (focusing on the men carrying the Posey surname) and also looking through other people's work - haven't once seen any possible mention of NDN heritage.
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wow, House of Song DOg. Long time since I heard that name. I tried to support this store when it was in Quilcene, but the owner had too many, uh, "issues."
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wow, House of Song DOg. Long time since I heard that name. I tried to support this store when it was in Quilcene, but the owner had too many, uh, "issues."
So glad you saw this Debbie, was going to ask if this was familiar.
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There was a prominent Lenape "Delaware chief" man named Turtle Heart / Weeweenoaghwak Tedabaghsika als Agassqua.
Posey uses the name "Turtle Heart" and "Hymhenteqhous Mizhekhay Odyin Jessakid Wabeno Aneek-i-nan".
Now that Posey is in Italy, he is appropriating more cultures: http://www.aicap.org/tanit/1_tanit_th1.html (http://www.aicap.org/tanit/1_tanit_th1.html)
From he and his wife: http://www.aicap.org/tanit/tanit's%204%20sides.html (http://www.aicap.org/tanit/tanit's%204%20sides.html)
The ancients used a basic series of symbols to talk clearly about the Creation and Sacred secrets of life. The circle, the triangle, etc. Diagrams of these symbols are in fact a statement in an old, rather alchemical or initiated language.
He's making many assumptions and drawing parallels where there might not be any.
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So when I first was aware of the House of Song Dog, is when we took some family members up to get christmas trees in Olympic National Forest. We saw this place when we were done and stopped in to check it out. There were arts, crafts, beads etc. The guy seemed ok. A year later we stopped in again and the guy went whackjob on us. Started cursing out and chasing my 12 year old stepdaughter and my 12 year old niece. Scared them. The men in the group step in between the owner and the kids and the guy says he didn't do anything wrong because they had "bad vibes." THEY WERE KIDS!!! He told us all to go Eff ourselves and to never darken his door again, that we were evil. We definitely never went back. A couple of years later, we were at an art show in Skok and this guy walks around, dressed in what looked like an eastern style shirt. Kinda like a ribbon shirt but different. I did not recognize him because he had gained about 50 pounds. But my husband did. The guy told us that he had left Quilcene because people were "unfriendly" there. One of our friends said that people had called the police on him because of things he was doing. He threatened people and went into a little store and was screaming obscentities at them. Yeah, that would make people unfriendly. Anyway, at the art show he gave us his card and was all friendly and wanted us to come and visit their new store in Liliwaup. Sure buddy. You bet. No wonder the guy has no contact with his family. They are probably afraid of him. I only wish that WE had called the police when he chased after our kids.
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So when I first was aware of the House of Song Dog, is when we took some family members up to get christmas trees in Olympic National Forest. We saw this place when we were done and stopped in to check it out. There were arts, crafts, beads etc. The guy seemed ok. A year later we stopped in again and the guy went whackjob on us. Started cursing out and chasing my 12 year old stepdaughter and my 12 year old niece. Scared them. The men in the group step in between the owner and the kids and the guy says he didn't do anything wrong because they had "bad vibes." THEY WERE KIDS!!! He told us all to go Eff ourselves and to never darken his door again, that we were evil. We definitely never went back. A couple of years later, we were at an art show in Skok and this guy walks around, dressed in what looked like an eastern style shirt. Kinda like a ribbon shirt but different. I did not recognize him because he had gained about 50 pounds. But my husband did. The guy told us that he had left Quilcene because people were "unfriendly" there. One of our friends said that people had called the police on him because of things he was doing. He threatened people and went into a little store and was screaming obscentities at them. Yeah, that would make people unfriendly. Anyway, at the art show he gave us his card and was all friendly and wanted us to come and visit their new store in Liliwaup. Sure buddy. You bet. No wonder the guy has no contact with his family. They are probably afraid of him. I only wish that WE had called the police when he chased after our kids.
So Debbie, the crazy who chased your children is this Posey character ??
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American Indian Computer Art project BBS
206-877-9030 BBS
206-877-9004 Voice/Fax AND BBS number if you ever get a disconnect
on 877-9030.
System Summary and Notes
User Notes: Conferences and membership requirements
Here is a list of the conferences we have: the Numbers refer to the
required security or subscription code required to read and enter messages
in the indicated conference.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
0 Main Board 30 17 Not used yet 60
1 System Notes 30 18 Windows Tips 30
2 Not used yet 40 19 Erotica 40
3 Dreaming 0 20 Artist Net 30
4 Native Events 30 21 Highway 101-N 30
5 Turtle Heart 60 22 Best 1-liners 30
6 Tribal Art 30 23 Talking Stick 40
7 Moon Lodge 60 24 Sysops 60
8 For Sale 30 25 Healing the Body 40
9 Elders Views 40 26 Indian News On-Line 40
10 AICAP Service 50 27 Private MSY
11 Olympic Mtns. 30 28 Private MSY
12 Readings 60 29 Private MSY
13 Contacts Info 30 30 Private Shonderosa Staff and Friends
14 Native Ritual 60
15 Astrology 40
16 Bushido-Sword 30
Membership in Blade-Runner BBS
Registered user, regular access, 30 minutes daily: No charge.
Security Level 30
Supporting User, increased access, 60 minutes daily $35.00 yearly.
Security level 40
Contributing User, unlimited access, 60 minutes daily $100.00 yearly
plus individual fees for readings conference.
This includes one free reading in the Private readings conf,
=============================================================================
We accept VISA or MASTERCARD on-line or by voice phone order.
You can also mail us a check or money order for your subscription.
Pay To: House of Song Dog
N 21 Lon Webb Road
Lilliwaup WA 98555
BBS: 206-877-9030
Voice: 206-877-9059
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is what he was peddling when he was running his BBS (Bulletin Board Service .... requires a modem and telephone line or UNIX telnet commands
to upload/download files, etc.) in March 1993. Since he was using an IBM 8086, I am assuming it was a dialup (modem/phoneline) BBS since those were MS-DOS
based personal computers.
I also find this link: www.mit.edu/activities/aises/aicap/archive/aicap.html
but it is dead. This is a valid M.I.T. website (mit.edu) and the user is now redirected to yet another dead website. I will do some more research to see
if I can find more information about this.
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The only link I was able to find between Turtle Heart and M.I.T. was the inclusion of his American Indian Computer
Art Project listed in newsgroups available on the Internet. Remember, at this time the Internet was text-based
and there were newsgroups to which members subscribed. Most of the newsgroups files were maintained by
major colleges and universities so this makes perfect sense. His name does not appear in this list of bona-fide
Native Americans who attended M.I.T. during this time period.
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The crazy was the owner of the shop, and if Posey was the owner of the shop, then yes.
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The crazy was the owner of the shop, and if Posey was the owner of the shop, then yes.
William F Posey does appear in public records in Quilcene and Lilliwaup.
The name House of Song Dog sounds very familiar, probably drove by it in the past. I don't see him listed in the WA state public court records but he could easily be there under another name, plus the public interface doesn't give us access to everything.
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Checked the Washington State Patrol WATCH database for WA state convictions, didn't find anything there.
Attached some clips from Taos News 2001, focus on his art.
One of his sources for ideas on how to present himself as a supposed wabeno may be the 1987 book The Shaman : Patterns of Religious Healing Among the Ojibway Indians
http://books.google.com/books?id=Xpok57qPZcIC&pg=PA145&lpg=PA145&dq=wabeno+juggler&source=bl&ots=QiuX7TBBib&sig=LHUxa0CKQt7zNsUVPtZtJQ41wOI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=mcSrUdv2L8SniALn-4FI&ved=0CEIQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=wabeno%20&f=false (http://books.google.com/books?id=Xpok57qPZcIC&pg=PA145&lpg=PA145&dq=wabeno+juggler&source=bl&ots=QiuX7TBBib&sig=LHUxa0CKQt7zNsUVPtZtJQ41wOI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=mcSrUdv2L8SniALn-4FI&ved=0CEIQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=wabeno%20&f=false)
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At http://www.aicap.org/accomplish.html he claims his work was archived in the Permamant Collection of the Smithsonian Computer History section
in 1995. Previous claims say 1997.
He also claims to have had a formal counsel and pipe ceremony in New Jersey with the Dalai Lama of Tibet.
Another strange claim is involvement with an eagle feather that circled the Earth submerged in a U.S. atomic submarine.
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In 1995 Turtle Heart was archived in the Permamant Collection of the Smithsonian Computer History section. This was for the many unique contributions AICAP and Turtle Heart made over the years to helping American Indians embrace the internet. He was also honored for being the first American Indian artist to have an exhibition and sales of a collection of digital computer art, in the world.
(Emphasis Mine)
http://www.aicap.org/accomplish.html
So, Turtle Heart was archived in the Smithsonian? I would really, really love to know what, if anything is at the Smithsonian that is related to Turtle Heart. Is it Turtle Heart himself, the AICAP internet project, or a piece of art?? The way he has it worded above, it is for his "unique contributions" over the years so that sounds pretty vague.
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If something he did was archived at Smithsonian, surely it would be listed here http://collections.si.edu/search/ (http://collections.si.edu/search/)
I've tried his various names and other search terms, don't see anything.
Wonder if he is talking about this: http://siris-libraries.si.edu/ipac20/ipac.jsp?&profile=all&source=~!silibraries&uri=full=3100001~!766267~!0#focus (http://siris-libraries.si.edu/ipac20/ipac.jsp?&profile=all&source=~!silibraries&uri=full=3100001~!766267~!0#focus)
Presents an index of Native American resources on the Internet. Offers access to sites related to culture, history, education, art, and archaeology. Provides access to related government agencies, commercial sites, and nonprofit organizations, as well as museums, nations, and legal resources. Links to home pages, bibliographies, and job listings, as well as the Aboriginal Studies section of the WWW Virtual Library. Also included is an extensive list of links for Native authors.
Began 1994, Smithsonian has description based on 2005 view of http://www.hanksville.org/NAresources/ (http://www.hanksville.org/NAresources/)
That site search http://www.hanksville.org/NAresources/NAsearch.php (http://www.hanksville.org/NAresources/NAsearch.php) Doesn't seem to function anymore. Wayback Machine doesn't give access either.
If so, he once again is misrepresenting himself.
I think he is anyway. Why wouldn't his boasts include the actual title of the work with description? He's an artist, he describes his other works fully, what materials used etc., why not this supposed work? Or is it simply a url of his site, maybe some description, that was on an index site, that was archived by Smithsonian Libraries?
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Began 1994, Smithsonian has description based on 2005 view of http://www.hanksville.org/NAresources/ (http://www.hanksville.org/NAresources/)
That site search http://www.hanksville.org/NAresources/NAsearch.php (http://www.hanksville.org/NAresources/NAsearch.php) Doesn't seem to function anymore. Wayback Machine doesn't give access either.
If so, he once again is misrepresenting himself.
I think he is anyway. Why wouldn't his boasts include the actual title of the work with description? He's an artist, he describes his other works fully, what materials used etc., why not this supposed work? Or is it simply a url of his site, maybe some description, that was on an index site, that was archived by Smithsonian Libraries?
Thanks, Piff. The search function does not work, but the individual links at the bottom of the page work (a fantastic resource, by the way). I searched several of the links and he does not come up. Remember, he said he was archived under the Computer History section at the Smithsonian and he was nominated by the CEO of Adobe, so it appears to be more of the "creative writing" he is so good at (IMHO, he missed his calling and should have been a scriptwriter in Hollywood).
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Here he is in 1982 Connecticut, in his William Winterstone incarnation: http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1915&dat=19820801&id=ICMiAAAAIBAJ&sjid=QHUFAAAAIBAJ&pg=4266,20362 (http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1915&dat=19820801&id=ICMiAAAAIBAJ&sjid=QHUFAAAAIBAJ&pg=4266,20362) I uploaded a pdf clipping form too that is easier to read.
Some quotes:
Winterstone, son of an Anishinabe-Ojibwa Indian from Minnesota, hopes to show how Indian customs and religious beliefs can help Indians and non-Indians alike find peace of mind.
...Winterstone is spreading the message that modern day people can learn from Indian ways. He has conducted workshops on Indian customs and the Indian way of interperting dreams and early next month will lead a three day workshop on important ceremonies, such as the pipe, the sweat lodge, ritual song and dance and the medicine wheel.
He taught "Tao of Turtle Island". He said he served in Vietnam as a medical corpsman and then worked for years as a trauma specialist in hospital emergency rooms.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuAj_QbMUb0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuAj_QbMUb0)
Audio from a book promo presentation in Italy, the youtube was uploaded in late 2012, don't know when the event happened.
That is him singing in the beginning. I'm curious if his singing sounds at all familiar to anyone here. Is some of this in an actual language? About at 3:50 he goes into some other sort of singing.
I unfortunately don't speak Italian so don't know what is being said in what might be an initial lecture by someone else, and then an introduction.
Posey starts talking, in English, with translations after, at 22. on the audio.
He talks a lot about the "original instructions", which he says is very important to "our tribal teachers".
Wonder if by "original instructions" he is speaking of info from this 2008 book Original Instructions: Indigenous Teachings for a Sustainable Future http://www.amazon.com/Original-Instructions-Indigenous-Teachings-Sustainable/dp/1591430798 (http://www.amazon.com/Original-Instructions-Indigenous-Teachings-Sustainable/dp/1591430798)
He continues to enjoy the phrase "old Indians" and profess to be able to speak for them.
Around 35. he says he's spent more than 40 years with the old Indians. From eight directions.
He claims (about 42.37) the Dalai Lama "received the sacred pipe" in New Jersey and that he blessed the bundle Posey carries.
He says his bundle tells the story of the beginning of time.
At 48. he talks about how he had "zero interest" in writing a book for Americans. He's thankful that he no longer lives in the USA. Doesn't sound like he wants to return.
Listened to about the first 50 minutes. He's not easy to listen to, not a good speaker.
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The singing at the beginning to my ear sounds like nothing more than gibberish. He seems to attempt to sing in 3 different voices....more than likely part of his act, but I've seen a lot of Native music traditions and I've never heard anything remotely resembling what he's doing. It would've been interesting to hear if there was any explanation beforehand of what he was doing....but it sounded a lot more like Asiatic shaman drumming.....nothing Native.
Superdog
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According to Posey, NAFPS is a hate group http://sacredpipe.org/hategroup.html (http://sacredpipe.org/hategroup.html) So many frauds claim this, rather than actually answering questions and cleaning up their act.
He's uploaded his military record. His website still claims he has a Purple Heart, but I don't see that listed on his actual record.
He continues to claim that he is NDN, and now that he is a NDN victim of an "anonymous hate group".
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Faking DD 214s is being done by posers a lot; not having the reference available i was not able to see why he was released from service so early. A year and a half is not a full enlistment. No Purple Heart on the DD 214, that can and does happen through admin errors. The form shows his reenlistment code a RE 1 meaning he was physically fit at the time he was discharged. Only a year and a half of service, hmmmmm.
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According to Posey, NAFPS is a hate group http://sacredpipe.org/hategroup.html (http://sacredpipe.org/hategroup.html) So many frauds claim this, rather than actually answering questions and cleaning up their act.
He's uploaded his military record. His website still claims he has a Purple Heart, but I don't see that listed on his actual record.
He continues to claim that he is NDN, and now that he is a NDN victim of an "anonymous hate group".
If I didn't know this guy and looked on that page hategroups I would have no idea what he was talking about...??? It's funny how he never names us or who is the hate group that supposedly spread all these lies. Hmm...you would think he would want his followers to know. Lol.
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I'm surprised to hear I'm anonymous. ::)
His supposed DD214 he posted shows him as having reenlisted. A year and a half as two enlistments?
He also left as a PV1. That's the same rank one enters with. You become a PV2 after only four months. If that doc is accurate, it points towards a minor charge of some kind that got him an Article 13. That's the lowest level court martial. That would explain the year and half of time and the loss of rank.
And we never posted the criminal accusations vs him. We still won't, without evidence.
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He got out on that DD214 as an E-3 private First Class. His separation was categorized as for the convenience of the govt, Ch. 5 AR 635-200, with a SPN of 313, for the purposes of reenlistment. Obviously then, the DD 214 he released was not his latest one which he would have gotten at the end of his service. I wonder why? A later DD 214 would have shown character of service, reason for separation, etc as well as any other awards (although records are not always kept up to date.)
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I found this forum through a search for "William Winterstone". amn, did this site fill in some blanks for me.
Thank you.
In 1981, I had a run-in with Mr. Weatherstone, who sucker-punched me while I had been turnmed away, after I'd called him for being an impostor.
Being as I was a kid, and my older brother and mom were furious that some nut had broken my nose and orbit at one of my own campsite, they called the NY state police, who responded to the home where this faux shaman was staying, just 1/2 mile from our own in NY's wooded lower Hudson Valley.
William Winterstone was arrested and charged at that home in Sugar Loaf, NY ( Orange County) ... arrest records shouldn't be too difficult to find. He already had a long rap sheet as it was, as William Frederick Posey.
Essentially, he preyed upon gullible wannabe-Indians and the like, and had been frequently arrested for taking advantage of these situations.
Amazing to see photos of him again, over 30 years later.