General > Frauds
Blackwater Muskogee tribe
Moma_porcupine:
This group has come up a few times in other threads . They have an ambassador in Germany .....
http://web.archive.org/web/20040804175908/http://theblackwaterband.tripod.com/id17.htm
--- Quote ---Tribal Leadership
Chief: Robert Watson "Bear Hunter"
Vice Chief: Timothy Tolbert "Turkey Caller"
Secretary: Sarah White "Bear Heart Who Sings"
Treasurer: Dobbie Williamson "Cloud Thunder"
Tvstvnvke & Representative to Germany : Larry D. Nichols "Strong Wolf"Tribal Tvstvnvke: Leon Watson
Council Members:
Steve Ford "Screaming Eagle"
Aubrey Freeman "Lone Eagle"
Donnie Thompson "Lightning Bear"
Jeane Nichols "October Moon"
Bobby Tyree "Winddancer"
Registered Agent:
Brenda Tolbert "Emerald Waters"
Tribal Mother:
Diane Watson "Fire Wolf"
Tribal Princes
Erin Ford "Rising Fawn"
CHIEF ROBERT WATSON "BEAR HUNTER"
TRIBAL MOTHER DIANE WATSON "FIRE WOLF"
--- End quote ---
A picture of a few of the tribal leaders ....
http://mitglied.lycos.de/langer_frank/newsletter12.htm
http://home.arcor.de/muskokee/pow.htm
--- Quote ---Reception in Untergruppenbach Creek Indians fight for their rights
"This day is a step in the history of our tribe," said visibly moved Strong Wolf. His real name is Larry Nichols. He is the brother of Creek-Häuptlings Blue Eyes and lives in Heilbronn. "We need help so that our American government recognizes as a people," said Nichols, Europe ambassadors of his tribe. And the official reception nUntergruppenbach show the American leadership that people of other countries recognize the Indians. Mayor Haiber went even further: "If they go back home, you have the certainty that this new found friends."
--- End quote ---
Does anyone know if the Blackwater Muskokee are recognized as a tribe by the federaly recognized Muskogee /Creek ? That would seem to be important if they are soliticing politicians in Europe to put presure on the US government to recognize them , and calling themselves ambassadors for their tribe.
The Blackwater Muskogee also seem to be involved in giving Indian names and phoney certifiations to Europeans ...
http://www.nativevue.org/blog/?p=547
--- Quote ---Three thousand people walk past the craft tables, watch my film, and attend the Aztec fire dance presentation. Taking up the largest area is a roped off museum style display with mannequins dressed like plains Indians, and inside the tipi is Berndt Briefs (not his real name).
He turns to me, beats his chest and says something in what sounds like Klingon. He quickly translates, "my name" he says, "is Apple Inside Out." A quick thought runs through my mind of what an apple really is, it's an Indian who is white on the inside and … well, I think you get the picture.
He reaches into his briefcase and pulls out a laminated Indian Name Certificate from the Muskogee Creek Nation, he was named by Chief Larry Nichols of the Blackwater Band of Lower Muskogee(Heilbronn), Germany.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---Larry Nichols is Muskogee Creek and makes it his job to fight the Indian cliches and those who promote it.
--- End quote ---
I doubt giving out Indian names to Europeans helps ....
--- Quote ---Chief Larry Nichols says this character never earned the name, "he wanted the name because he felt like his heart was red."
--- End quote ---
So maybe this certificate was Larry's idea of a joke ? If so, the guy who got it didn't seem to understand that
--- Quote ---Germans are genuinely interested in the Indian culture, so much so that they even taken to learning Indian languages. Larry teaches Creek if there is enough interest.
There have even been people who look Indian but are not Indian, and still claim to be Indian, even so far as to claim to be descendants of Geronimo.
"Some fall for the imposter here." Larry says, "we have caught several imposters. They have their stories worked out right down to the name of their fictional Indian grandparents, and their story is believable and on track with our experiences in residential school, up to the contemporary racism against Indians."
--- End quote ---
Just because people point out an imposter doesn't mean their claims about themselves are true.
--- Quote ---The German people's only real interest in Indians is the clichè, Indian on horseback. A real Indian is not accepted until he looks like something he's not, a part of the cliché.
In the movie Thunderheart, the FBI character "Cooch" says that we are a conquered people. But we're not. We're a treatied people, with rights like any independent nation. For co-operation, collaboration and co-existence. Instead we have been intimidated, interferred with, interned and institutionalized.
Chief Nichols says, "There is alot of opportunity for our North American Indian youth, the possibilities are endless."
I recall an elder who spoke at a treaty governance gathering on my reserve. He said, "we are not the descendants of a once proud race of people, we are the same people."
--- End quote ---
The Blackwater Muskogee have a reserve?
--- Quote ---"So," Chief Nichols says. "The struggle continues, for respect. The opportunity is there for us to represent ourselves as who we are."
--- End quote ---
But who are these people? Just because they claim to be concerned about respect for Native rights doesn't mean they are a tribe or that they are of American Indian descent.
If these guys are just a bunch of PODIAs claiming to be a tribe and Cheifs claiming to be ambassadors in Europe, that can't be good for creating respect for the real American Indian people and soverienty of real tribes...
It sounds like the Blackwater Muskogee also is handing out some kind of memberships to people in Europe claiming to be descended from other tribes . Reportedly it was this group that gave Tonya Billington some kind of tribal membership certificate ...
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1006
Grey Wolf & Tonya
Reply #35 on: January 20, 2007, 12:49:00 am »
dabosijigwokush
--- Quote ---The Blackwater Tribe of The Lower Mvskokee ring a bell thats whats on you addopation forgies the real name is The Blackwater Band of Lower Mvskokee inc. a 501 c3 club not FEDERALLY NON-RECOGNIZED not STATE RECOGNIZED not FEDERALLY RECOGNIZED a club and that is all not native bye any means
--- End quote ---
Re: Grey Wolf & Tonya
« Reply #50 on: February 15, 2007, 03:07:13 am »
loudcrow
--- Quote ---I contacted the Blackwater Band of the Lower Muskokee regarding the certicates FB has so proudly displayed on his website. They have informed me their tribe (which is actually a clan) perfomed a wedding ceremony for this couple because they had been led to believe T/T/T was American and Cherokee. Although they would not go into any great detail, they told me their was an incident in the UK between this couple and some recognized Native Americans. T/T/T was asked to provide them with proof of her being part American and proof of being Cherokee. When the proof was not presented, they had no other alternative other than to revoke their Honorary Memberships and have since turned their backs on this pair.
--- End quote ---
zoi lightfoot:
Nope the Blackwater Band is not officialy recognized by the Federal Gov,yes Francis Billington and Tonya Billington were given 'honorary'membership by the Blackwater clan.Yes the Billingtons assaulted members of the Indian Nations residing overseas and their 'honary membership was revoked as a result and yes Tonya Billington still falsely asserts she is Cherokee.Larry Nicholes does exist as does the Black water Band and many other notable non federaly recognized Bands whom the Indian Nations themselves recognize.Tell me moma,is your query in regard to Larry Nicholes who has attempted to halt the shamastic progress of these two correctly discribed"pains in the ass" The Blackwater Band or the Billingtons themselves?
I raised this matter in my statement to the autonomous sgs,interest groups and charities last year.a statement which was on this site for some reason if memory serves me.
loudcrow:
Moma Porcupine, I am quite curious about what appears to be insinuations
and I have some questions I would like to ask in regards to your post.
1. Have you come to the conclusion Native Americans residing in
Europe cannot possibly be considered Ambassadors for their
people? Do you not think they "represent" their nations in Europe?
2. I'm a bit confused about the link to the pictures of their tribal leaders.
Are we supposed to view the pictures and determine their ethnicity?
3. Do you think it's wrong for Native Americans living in Europe
to enlist the aid of European governments, leaders, etc. to pressure
the US/Canadian governments about Native American issues?
4. What has made you come to the conclusion the Blackwater Band of
the Lower Muskokee are not Native American?
You quote:
I recall an elder who spoke at a treaty governance gathering on my reserve. He said, "we are not the descendants of a once proud race of people, we are the same people."
This was a quote made by John "Blackbird" Summers, Cree, in a rather scathing article he wrote
about German Hobbyists. Your quote is a small portion of that article and, when taken somewhat
out of context, can be misleading.
Your comment:
The Blackwater Muskogee have a reserve?
I'm assuming you are Canadian since Americans call them reservations or rez for short.
I didn't realize a tribe needed a reserve (reservation) in order to be authentic. I am
assuming you are referring to John "Blackbird" Summer's comment about his reserve.
Your quote:
If these guys are just a bunch of PODIAs ......
I'm not sure what PODIA means. Could you define PODIA please?
Your quote:
Just because people point out an imposter doesn't mean their claims about themselves are true.
Larry Nichols had 4 lawsuits filed against him in Germany by Henry Reyna
because Larry Nichols had ruined Henry's reputation and wallet by saying he was
not Native American. Henry dropped the first 3 lawsuits but was foolish
enough to proceed with the 4th one. Larry Nichols and Elizabeth Roemer
were required by the German court to produce documents supporting their
claims of being Native American as was Henry Reyna. Both Larry and
Elizabeth submitted their enrollment cards and genealogy and, during the
course of the trial, their documents were deemed by the German court as
being valid. Henry's documents consisted of a note written by his "father"
which simply stated he is Apache and descended from Geronimo. This note was
notarized but held no weight in the German court. Larry and Elizabeth supplied the German
court with Henry's genealogy (done by Elizabeth) and Henry did not
protest or state the genealogy was incorrect. The judge simply did not believe
Geronimo hooked up with Henry's great-great grandmother (age 21)
at age 73 and sent her off to Mexico with the horses when he learned
of her pregnancy so she and the baby would be safe. As far as I know, both
Larry Nichols and Elizabeth Roemer are well-respected within the Native American
community both at home and in Europe and have always been on the front line fighting
for the rights of all Natives. If you have information to the contrary, please share that with us.
Indeed, the Blackwater Band of the Lower Muskokee presented
T/T/T and Francis Billington with honorary membership certificates.
This is NOT a tribal membership and offers no benefits whatsover.
Their honorary memberships have been revoked because of T/T/T's
failure, after numerous requests, to produce documents which
support her claim of being American and Cherokee. Now I don't
claim to be up to date on every thread/post here, but I believe
we are waiting for Mrs. Billington to meet with Zoi Lightfoot with
her birth certificate and/or passport. I could be wrong, but I
don't think Mrs. Billington has responded to Zoi's request which was
made over 3 weeks ago. Perhaps Zoi will read this post and can
update us about the status of this requested meeting.
You quote:
The Blackwater Tribe of The Lower Mvskokee ring a bell thats whats on you addopation forgies the real name is The Blackwater Band of Lower Mvskokee inc. a 501 c3 club not FEDERALLY NON-RECOGNIZED not STATE RECOGNIZED not FEDERALLY RECOGNIZED a club and that is all not native bye any means
This was a post made by someone who signed in as guest and seems to
think the Blackwater Band is a club and is not native. How much credibility
should be given to someone who does not identify themselves, does
a drive-by and offers no proof of his own claims? Do Natives HAVE to be
state and/or federally recognized in order to be Native? If so, I'll let the Natives
in Virginia know they aren't Native :).
zoi lightfoot:
I can indeed comfirm that as Francis and Tonya Billington are dropping in and reading this site,I did indeed respond to their PM to myself publicaly on this site,whereby I made it clear i would not meet them and them alone at some vague cafe in London UK.That I expected ALL parties to gather up their paperwork and meet me face to face.The Blackwater Band can and has a right to speak for itself.To date Mr and Mrs Billington have not taken me up on this.However if anyone else is curious as to who I AM talking about,please take the time to look through the Grey Wolf and Tonya thread.
crazyeagle:
I am genuinely curious Moma Porcupine as to your interest in the Blackwater Band, as to date I have not seen or heard of any fraudulent activities there in the US or Germany.But you do seem to have an avid interest going on with them..is it idle curiousity or do you have information which pertains to this particular Nation and its people as I fail to see where this thread is going?
Linda Lou
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