NAFPS Forum

Odds and Ends => Etcetera => Topic started by: Moma_porcupine on February 15, 2006, 12:37:34 pm

Title: Sale of sweetgrass and sage
Post by: Moma_porcupine on February 15, 2006, 12:37:34 pm
All the traditional people I have known , have always said we do not buy or sell sweetgrass
and sage, if this is to be used in ceremony ( as differing from , say , a non ceremonial
craft material , or a herbal remedy for a specific physical complaint ) It is gathered in
a traditional way which involves prayer , and it is passed on ( or possibly traded for
other medicines ) in a way that involves prayer , not money.
It seems more and more sweetgrass and sage are beginning to turn up for sale at powwows ,
and sale of this is even promoted by respectable Native run websites, such as this ;


http://www.native-languages.org/herbs.htm

linking to

http://www.ancientwayswest.com/Herbal_Package.html

http://www.ancientwayswest.com/PipeBags_Pipes.html


This website also contains an excellent article explaining to
people that real Native traditions are not sold commercially . This can be found through
the below link ;

http://www.native-languages.org/religion.htm

Below is another link to a website put together by a group of seemingly respectful
Native women , which says they are taking actions to stop exploiters of their
Spirituality .


http://www.geocities.com/redroadcollective/

In this website is a link to a series of articles on the Sacred uses of Tobacco , Cedar ,
Sage and Sweetgrass found here ;

http://www.geocities.com/redroadcollective/SacredTobacco.html


While these articles ask people to be careful not to buy these plants from
people who have not harvested these plants in a respectful , prayerful way , I do not see
it mentioned that many traditional people feel strongly that sweetgrass and sage should not
be bought and sold at all .
Interestingly , the Native Languages website seems to rationalize this commercialization by
saying , something like "a feather is just a feather a plant is just a plant " and the
redroad collective says buying it is Ok as long as it was gathered in a enviromentally sound
traditional prayerful manner , and is not seen as "just a plant".
Perhaps this commercialization is within the traditions of some Native cultures ,
but if so, I have never heard of it . I think more likely this is just one more way
New Age consumerism is influencing Native culture and tempting some good Native people
to bend to cater to this . I think there is also a lot of pressure from Native friends
and relatives to go along with this new way of making a few bucks . If needing to make
a few bucks , is going to be the new guiding principle , I have to wonder what other
non commercial Spiritual traditions will be next.
With so much sage and sweetgrass being offered for sale on the internet , I was beginning
to wonder if maybe was just imagining what I heard many times about not selling smudge ?
I did some poking around and there was lots and lots of websites selling sage and
sweetgrass but not much talking about that in many traditions it is not bought and sold .
With some searching , I did find a couple links to Native organizations which
mention this as a concern .
---------------------------------------

http://www.powow.com/scic/SCIC/Booth%20rules%202.htm

The Santa Cruz Indian Council
PO Box 326
Santa Cruz, CA 95061-0326



BOOTH RULES AND REGULATIONS
2. In an earnest attempt to provide only American Indian made arts and crafts, the
committee will not allow any imported or non-Indian made items to be sold. Violators
will be asked to remove such items: subsequent violation will result in closure
of your booth. 3. Sage, sweetgrass, cedar ceremonial pipes, bowl and stems made
out of pipestone may not be sold due to the religious purpose and significance
------------------------------------

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:T3siXsi6EpUJ:powwow.asu.edu/2006_Vendor_Packet.
pdf+%22do+not+sell%22+sweetgrass+sage+&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

Arizona State University Pow Wow Committee Post Office Box 248, Tempe, Arizona, 85280  


In order to maintain the integrity of the event, we do not allow the selling of Tobacco,
Sage, Sweet Grass, Pipes, Knives, "Grand Canyon, Stringed, or Junk Jewelry."

-------------------------------


Title: pt . 2 Sale of sweetgrass and sage
Post by: Moma_porcupine on February 15, 2006, 12:40:18 pm
It is nice to see there is still some Indians in cyberspace , who do not accept of the
sale of sage and sweetgrass. All the traditional people I know still follow the old
way , and do not buy or sell sage and sweetgrass , but I worry about what sort of point
of reference people will have in the future , as the sale of these things is becoming
increasingly normalized .
If Native people or a tribe decides it is OK to sell traditional ceremonial items , such
as sweetgrass braids and sage ( or even red pipestone pipes in the above link ) , these
same Native people will not have much credibility if they then try and say that non native
people should not be using out of context bits and pieces of Native traditions , and that
these ceremonies should not be mixed up with New Age or commercialism , as they have ,
after all , set the example and sold these things themselves .
When people buy things they usually assume they own it . Almost all the buyers I know
of , are New Age types . No healthy traditional person that I have ever known buys
sweetgrass, or sage for smudging .
All this pressure towards commercialization seems like a cancer . It is like the
immune system that was powered by our responsibility to maintain respectful relationships ,
and which protected these traditions for all these generations , is beginning to be broken
down so it no longer works .
Maybe there is some good reasons behind this commercialization that I am not understanding ,
but ,how it seems to me , the sale of sweetgrass and sage , is just one more step towards
eroding and confusing the longstanding traditional reference points , that always made it
clear , traditional ways of prayer are not for sale .
That this now so often seems to be seen as OK , really seems like a loss .

Title: Re: Sale of sweetgrass and sage
Post by: Joseph on February 15, 2006, 02:40:18 pm
Thank you for all the information.

In traditional Cherokee ways (in the old days) we did not buy tobbaco, it was grown, and the kind used for 'medicine' was given to who needed it by a medicine person, who first 'remade' the tobacco.

There are all sorts of writings about remaking tobacco all of which leave out (a deliberate ommission I think on the part of the medicine person to whoever they were talking to) some very important aspects and steps.

Sometimes I buy organically grown and I have been planting my own, but alas I still had to buy the seeds.

Again thanks for the info and the links.

Joseph
Title: Re: Sale of sweetgrass and sage
Post by: raven on February 16, 2006, 02:56:40 pm
I can appreciate the concern about the selling of sweet grass and sage. I myself live here in IL. and sweetgrass does not grow wild in my region, however with much persistance I do now have a plentiful bounty of it growing in my yard. The sage on the other hand is sent to me from my sister out in S.D. she herself goes out and picks it to send.

What I would like to address is that I have an elder aunt and uncle in S.D. that along with their grandchildren go out and pick it, bundle it, and sell it, along with their beadwork out of the trunk of their car. They do this to compensate for their small income.
How could I go to my uncle who is a Korean verteran and a direct descent of Crazy Horse and tell him what he is doing is wrong? I believe I would probably get thumped on top of my head with a talking stick. Any suggestions?
Title: Re: Sale of sweetgrass and sage
Post by: Joseph on February 16, 2006, 06:20:51 pm
Maybe what he is doing isn't wrong. This is the year 2006 and we all have to eat. This is not the old days with a trade and barter economy. Just my 2 cents worth.

Joseph
Title: Re: Sale of sweetgrass and sage
Post by: walking-soft on February 16, 2006, 07:44:00 pm
The only plant I can harvest in my area is cedar.  The soils here makes it difficult to impossible to grow sweet grass and some places of the country sage, tobbaco,sweet grass. Being Cherokee sage is new begining in 1970 at Wounded Knee, as it was growing all around. If I am wrong please correct me. Cherokee used sweet grass,tobbaco,cedar and cornmeal.

I have on issue at the selling of these plants for it is my opinion that it is how one uses it that is the real issue here. The misuse of these is a big problem by those who seem to think if they use these in a "ceremony" will make them more indian. hey?

SO HOW DO YOU USE THESE THINGS?? IS IT WITH A GOOD HEART IN A GOOD WAY OR A GREEDY HEART IN A BAD WAY?
Title: Re: Sale of sweetgrass and sage
Post by: raven on February 16, 2006, 09:36:34 pm
My uncle told me that when he was a youngster, they had an old barrel in the yard. They would pick sage and burn it in the barrel to repel against mosquitos. He told me that his people considered sweetgrass, cedar and tobacco to be sacred.
It was during the hold out up in Wounded Knee, when the runners came in with food and supplies, they brought in sage also. It was during that time that sage became used in a sacred way. Sage was growing all around the church there and they had easy access to it.
I believe it is what and how people use these things that make it bad. Not whether they obtained it by picking it or buying it.
Joseph you are right, this is 2006.
Title: Re: Sale of sweetgrass and sage
Post by: Moma_porcupine on February 16, 2006, 11:12:17 pm
It would be to really hard to talk to a respected elderly loved one about the negative side
effects of their behavior , especially if what they are doing is to get basic necessities
or comforts of life .  I think there are many Native people who have relatives selling sage
and sweetgrass , or even ceremonies , who have the same problem .

In my own life , I have chosen to speak out , but for me it is easier because it has
involved friends and not respected elderly relatives. It has made some people mad at me,
but , out of respect for Elders who have passed on , I feel I have to say something .  

No one I know has actually changed their behavior , so maybe it is a useless confrontation ,
and I know conflicts like this are dividing some Native communities  .

In some situations  , perhaps confronting things directly , is not always the best way .  
There are the underlying issues like poverty , the lack of choices available to Native
people , and being surrounded by a culture that has a general lack of understanding and
respect for even the most basic principles of Native cultures . Sometimes , maybe it is
more constructive to work towards solving these problems than to confront the symptoms
head on .

Native participation in commercialization of traditions,  does make it a lot more difficult
to educate New Age types about the damage done to Native cultures , when they use out of
context bits and pieces of traditional ceremonies , because they can point to individuals
who are Native ,who have sold them the paraphernalia to do so . The arguments given here
that it is that it is now 2006 , and people have to eat , and it is not what we do but our
intentions ,sound just like the arguments the New Age types use to justify their own
commercial activities .  

Personally , I will continue to remember the traditions as they were shared with me ,
and I think it is important to do so , whenever possible . I do not feel I have
the authority to decide it is OK to change these traditions so someone I like can
make money , but I do sympathize with people who feel it would not be constructive
to speak out on this in some situations .

New Agers fail to realize the temptations and problems their willingness to pay,
creates for Native people struggling to retain the health of their traditions .

It is a very complex problem , and I do not have the answers either, but I appreciate
that you care . I guess all we can do is the best we can .

Thanks .

Title: Re: Sale of sweetgrass and sage
Post by: yellowthunder_bolt on February 17, 2006, 01:44:41 am
How wonderful it would be to be able to put my hands into mother earth and be able to plant the sacred herbs, how I long for it. However in this part of the country the soil is not conduit to the growing of these most sacred herbs, and I have no way of growing,harvesting these sacred herbs in a sacred and traditional manner.
Mom-porcupine you are richley blessed, however calling people who are traditional American Indians,  ones with new age thinking is not a good way of handeling things and in fact prsents a sense of arrogance on your part.

One must always be careful what they say and the tone it is said in. I have not read what American Indian tribe you are from. Elders are highly respected and it is not a matter of if you like someone or not, it's traditional to respect our Elders and out of that respect things will be taken care of.

I do want to come to you in humility and respect and ask for Real Indian tobbaco, sweet grass and sage our sacred herbs. If you could send me some ,It would be greatly appreciated as I know it has been planted and harvested in a sacred and prayerful way. Just leave me a message and I will give you my address.             Wado
Title: Re: Sale of sweetgrass and sage
Post by: raven on February 17, 2006, 04:47:30 am
Let's get to the real issue here about this subject.
So scrape off the leftovers off of the plate.
This concept is a shallow  mind that is totally clueless to what it is like to be native.

To even conceive the idea of telling an elder that their behavior is a negative side effect to their traditions, well you already flunked native 101, never tell an elder they are wrong.

For some families selling some sage and sweetgrass can make the difference between their kids going to bed with an empty or full stomach. Have you ever worked in a soup kitchen on the rez, watch all the young mothers with their children come in to get a descent meal, or driving to an elders home to take a meal and once arriving walking into a home that has a hole in the middle of the livingroom floor because that is where they burn wood to keep warm?
Or perhaps sitting with a family that had to make their home inside a hill and to attend their 12 yr old daughter's funeral because she committed suicide beacuse of the shame she felt?

What you take for granted such as that computer you are using, do you know how many children that would feed, or putting a warm coat on their back, I know, and if you like I could break it down for you.

No you don't have the authority to educate native people on what they do to survive.
I think you need to get out of the books and the sites and go live with a family or go volunteer on the rez, get a taste of what life is really like for most of them. I am sure you would find a real issue to educate people about, and it wouldn't be the native people, it would be the white people.
I have a belief if you feed the stomach you feed the spirit,  that is the real world.
This reminds me of a young woman that was taking a native class at a nearby college, she came to my home while my aunt and uncle was visiting, in this visit my uncle was taking some time with her to teach her about the medicine wheel, and guess what she did, she pulled out her papers from school and told my uncle he was wrong, that what she had on her papers from school was the correct teachings of the medicine wheel. That was her first and last visit in my home.
Lesson number 1 never tell an elder that they are wrong.
But by the way you speak I know that you live fairly comfortable, I bet your home is warm tonight. Guess how many are sleeping in a cold home, I bet you don't go to bed hungry tonight, guess how many families will ?
And don't let me start about the alcohol, drugs, or gangs. I would be sitting here all night on those subjects.
The real breakdown comes from our government plain and simple. Did the government tell you where you are living at now, did they tell you that is where you will live?
The government began the stripping away of the culture and the tradtions, the new agers and others they are just the vultures there to pick at the rotted meat.
Title: Re: Sale of sweetgrass and sage
Post by: Raven(Robin)Walkingstick on February 17, 2006, 05:10:42 am
Also, we don't call sage, sweetgrass and tobacco, paraphenalia
Title: Re: Sale of sweetgrass and sage
Post by: Joseph on February 19, 2006, 01:07:44 pm
I was just replying to the selling of sage and sweetgrass by this elder, not ceremony, when I said it was 2006.

When I was little we also used sage as an insect repellent.

To clarify what I was taught (as a Cherokee) and not to go into great detail, I was taught the use of tobacco and cornmeal, and certain woods, such as pine and cedar. Cedar was reserved for certain people to use on certain occassions/ceremonies, not for everyone. I only point this out so those that do not know will understand that not every Indian person uses or thinks that sage and sweetgrass is sacred or would think it wrong to  sell it.


And when I say it is 2006, let me put it this way. I do not live on my Grandparent's farm. I cannot get cornmeal from them. I have to buy it. So when I speak of intent, my intent when I use this cornmeal is as it should be. Remember, the word 'intent' was not invented and added to our vocabulary by new agers.

Joseph
Title: Re: Sale of sweetgrass and sage
Post by: Moma_porcupine on February 19, 2006, 01:51:27 pm
Thanks Joseph , sometimes it is hard to understand what people are saying on line .

I found this article in a back issue of Indian Country today . It is about a conference
to discuss developing tourism as a cultural resource . It sounds like there are many
elders involved in this process , so it can be carefully decided what parts of the
culture can be can be turned into an economic resource, and what parts
of the culture need to be protected from the market place .

http://www.indiancountry.com/content.cfm?id=602


This article mentions ceremonies like the sweat lodge and pipe will not be open to
tourism , and that the elders get upset when they see people selling sweetgrass and
other things . Making a plan that is guided by elders and traditional values , and
sets it up so the demands of the market place will not destroy the culture sounds
like a really constructive response to change . If traditions must change to work
with present circumstances , it makes sense this change is formally agreed to ,
and led by a group of recognized tribal elders   .

I am not going to defend myself from personal attacks , or post personal information
on line . I can assure you my personal credentials are less than impressive . LOL .  
It is not important who I am one way or the other .What is important is that people
not forget the teachings of their own tribal elders before New Age consumerism became
an influence , and that if we want our cultural boundaries to be respected we don't
give double messages about where those boundaries are .

I have made my points , and if there is any truth in them I hope they stick .

Points,  points , ha ha , get it .
Title: Re: Sale of sweetgrass and sage
Post by: Raven_Walkingstick on February 19, 2006, 05:19:38 pm
My intent of my posting was not to attack you on a personal level Momma Porcupine.
I am in full agreement with some of the things you spoke of such as selling of ceremonies.
What upsets me on this subject is that I sit here with amendments that were written up by "elders, pipe carriers, medicine bundle carriers. This amendment is to stop the selling of such ceremonies, yet I know personally one of these "elders" that attended the meetings and signed the amendment is very much guilty of such things as charging for naming ceremonies and sweats.
It is things such as this that's gets me highly aggitatated for it is a typical mentality of do as I say not as I do. Unfortunately there are many out there like that.

My response to you could have and should have been nicer. This stems back from being raised by elder grandparents that as a young woman saw how they were treated in society due to their race.
What I read in your post was a message of the elders need to be taught.
However  it does not mean that what you say I believe is the right way or the answer. I speak as I do out of respect of my grandparents because they deserved to be treated with dignity not like children that need to be taught.

As the saying goes it only takes one "bad apple"
Get it. Which there are many out there.
Have you ever read about the lost generation?
If not I highly suggest it, that will give more insight to why somethings and some people are the way they are.
Title: Re: Sale of sweetgrass and sage
Post by: yellowthunder_bolt on February 19, 2006, 09:04:28 pm
This sounds like a lot of one upsmanship going on here. The only skins being Joseph and Ravin.
While Porcupine has made some valid points they all seem to come out of "Indian Country" and not much of her own personal teachings, experience, and knowledge taught to her by Elders personaly can be heard. "I can assure you my personal credentials are less than impressive.LOL" tells me you find that somewhat funny. Believe me this is no laughing matter. So YOU as a non-native have not been given much if any knowledge of Native traditions personaly concerning the right and wrong way of things.
"If WE want our cultral boundaries to be respected WE don't give double messages about where those boundaries are". Now I'm confused because I just got a double message, who is the WE. Are you stating you are NDN. O by the way that statement came out of "Indian Country".

My POINT is you seem to come across as wanting to be NDN, and trying to impress with knowledge you have read. It is not for one WHO IS NOT an ELDER by tradition to be direspectful verbally or in writing as you have been toward the Elders Raven spoke of. So if I were you I would LISTEN to these words. " your POINTS" serve no one but YOURSELF.

"A Wise person listens very close to the unspoken words and tones of the messanger."
Title: Re: Sale of sweetgrass and sage
Post by: raven on February 20, 2006, 02:19:28 pm
The above posted links do discuss some valid issues within the Native communities, such as the tourism and the pow wow circuits in regions west of the Mississippi River.
However the problem is much worse in the midwest.  With no tribal affillations, or real Native elders to oversee these issues.
Here in the midwest 98% of all pow wows are ran by non natives with next to none native people involved in their committees.

Here you will see imported jewelry and beadwork passed off as native.

Red pipestone pipes connected to their stems sold.

Vendors selling one hitters with beads or a little paint they added .

Competition pow wows where dark skinned people though not native ( greek, italian, ex.) will win monies that should have gone to real native dancers in the competitions.

Sweat lodges set up at the pow wows

"Sacred fires" burning at pow wows

Buffalo skulls in the middle of a dance arena.

"Medicine people" walking around "preforming" naming and wedding ceremonies.

This is just a small list of things that have plagued the midwest for several years now.
The elders that once lived here have either passed on or moved. Many of the pow wows are started by former boy scout leaders that do not have any real teachings of how to conduct nor run a pow wow. Many of these people that run these pow wows are in it to make a profit with no regards to the raping of our culture.
This problem is so huge that I personally get overwhelmed with disgust.
Here it is not the native people that are the problem, it is the white people.
They are the ones that are selling the sweetgrass, and sage.



Title: Re: Sale of sweetgrass and sage
Post by: Ric_Richardson on February 20, 2006, 04:50:31 pm
Tansi;

As my wife and I are working on the development of a Non Timber Forest Product (NTFP)industry, to assist with finding ways of developing economic initiatives, in our extremely poor region, I feel that I must respond to some of the concerns about the sale of Traditionally used plants.

We, as a result of discussions with many of our Northern Aboriginal residents, Elders and at places such as the International Gathering of Traditional Medicines and Healing, have chosen to use the Traditional Knowledge of our peoples to find ways of developing local and regional economic initiatives which will incorporate Traditional Knowledge in finding ways to enter the modern economy.  This decision was made with the help of many Prayers and much deliberation over the past several years.  

We believe that the Gifts of the Creator were shared with our people, in order for us to be able to Live.  As our modern reality does include the necessity of money, we look at items, which used to be traded for, to be able to be sold.  This does include Sweetgrass and Sage, as well as many other plants, used Traditionally in Medicines.

Our efforts are made, in order to find ways of including our largely unemployed (approx 70%) region to find alternatives to only relying on resource extraction, such as uranium, which is one of the main economic initiatives, in our region.  As exploitive resource extraction usually relies on the presence of socio-economic conditions, which exist here, such as high unemployment and poverty, coupled with a high population of Aboriginal people, we intend to find alternative economic initiatives to provide alternatives to only being able to work in the mines or in deforestation.   Another reason for our choice to sell Traditionally used plants, is to create ways of passing on our Cultural ways, at the same time as ensuring survival, economically.

We have been working in coordination with the Northern Forest Diversification Center, in Manitoba www.nfdc.ca who have been successful in providing economic benefits to hundreds of Aboriginal people, in Northern Manitoba, annually, based on their harvesting and selling natural products of their regions.  We are also working on having a National network of NTFP industries, which is incorporating standards, which will ensure sustainability and certification for naturally harvested plants.  In our efforts, we hope to achieve a balance of bringing Traditional Values to a Modern Society.  "Fair Trade" certification will also be an important aspect of our development.  We believe that the knowledge and work of Native people have value and through our own work with harvesting and using Traditionally used plants, we understand the true costs of harvesting, processing and using these.

When I was young, my father told me that I should never try to do anything "Native" to make a living because the only people who could make money off of Indians, were White.  I was quite grateful that my father was still alive when I was able to open a Native Arts and Craft store, on the main street of a city, where he lived.  The Creator never shared these Gifts with us, in order to have us live in poverty!

We do not support or believe in the sale of Ceremonies, but when participating in these, we do make sure that our gifts to Sweat and Ceremony leaders include some money, in order for them to purchase those things that cannot, any longer, be acquired by Trade.

Respectfully;
Ric



Title: Re: Sale of sweetgrass and sage
Post by: Moma_porcupine on February 20, 2006, 06:16:46 pm
Thanks for your respectful and thoughtful responses .  The commercial harvesting of sage and sweetgrass
in the Northern communities Ric is describing sounds like it has been well considered and guided by
traditional Elders , and I respect that .

Commercial enterprises like this do make it more difficult to educate non native communities that Native
traditions belong in Native communities and are not for sale , and it is also difficult when these traditional
Medicines are sold in territories where people are still uncomfortable with this .  

Personally , I will continue to practice the traditions as I was taught , and I won't be buying or selling
and sage or sweetgrass .  I guess no individual is likely to be harmed by smudging with a commercially
harvested product , but , I personally believe  there is a non monetary value in these traditions when they
come to us in a traditional way , and these values tend to get trimmed off when these things get bought
and sold . I guess for people who are not bothered by that , it would not matter either way .

I like the idea that this is certified and fair trade .   In the New Age stores I know that sell this ,
I would much rather see a product that is benefiting Native communities , instead of exploitive
non native harvesters .

Title: Re: Sale of sweetgrass and sage
Post by: Ric_Richardson on February 20, 2006, 09:09:46 pm
Tansi;

Thank you Moma Porcupine, for your opinions and concerns.  We have had to do a great deal of soul searching, prior to choosing to develop the NTFP industry, in our area.

We recognize that many of the plants that grow here, do not grow in other areas.  For those who have access to these, Traditional practices of trade are greatly encouraged.  However, there is a demand, which is currently being served by numerous non-native businesses, which may not have the same consideration for sustainability nor in fair trade.

For example, this past weekend, I met with a business person who tried to tell me that a daily income of $50.00 was the "standard" for those Aboriginal people picking Sweet Grass.  She tried telling me that this was the only way that she, as a business person, could make a profit.  We, of course, do not agree, which is why we have chosen to pursue the certifications of fair trade as well as sustainably harvested.  Areas used in harvesting will be managed in order to ensure sustainability, as well, in cooperation with governmental agencies, as well.

In our region, there is that, which I call the "politics of poverty" which seems to encourage a high level of unemployment and poverty, in order to be able to take our resources for next to nothing.  As uranium, oil and timber developments are controlled mainly by multinational corporations, there are very limited benefits coming back to our Aboriginal population.  In spite of billions of dollars worth of resources being extracted annually, we continue to have excessive levels of unemployment and all of the social problems associated with this.

We believe that, with certified products, we will be better able to educate the buying public as to why products, produced in an ethical Respectful manner by Aboriginal people, should demand a higher price than those sold for strictly commercial purposes.  We liken this to the difference between corporate farms and organic produce.  It is our expectation that there will be a demand for certified products, which are demonstrated to contribute to Aboriginal peoples and businesses.

As well, there are going to be those, who remain in their communities, in spite of job opportunities which would require them to move away.  A strong NTFP industry, as well as Aboriginal eco-tourism could help to allow them to remain in their communities, while being able to find ways of self-sufficiency, economically.  

Currently there are very few opportunities to find economic benefits to learning and preserving our Culture.  What we are working toward, is to help to ensure Cultural survival, while finding ways of living in a society in which money is integral to a decent standard of living.

Title: Re: Sale of sweetgrass and sage
Post by: Ric_Richardson on February 21, 2006, 01:19:47 am
Tansi;

Here is an article which speaks about this issue.

http://www.ammsa.com/buffalospirit/February-2000/sweetgrass.html

One of the Elders quoted, the Late Joe Cardinal, from Saddle Lake, Alberta, was one of my cherished teachers and a good friend to many.

Ric
Title: Re: Sale of sweetgrass and sage
Post by: walking-soft on February 21, 2006, 02:19:30 am
Ric_Richardson, 'siyo

What you have spoken is so true. So many things have been and are becoming extinct. It is wonderful to know that your work is to bring back and share the sweetgrass with those who do not have it.

The Eagle for an example was on the brink of extinction and with the help of the American Indian as well as other nationalities, working together, have now brought the bald Eagle, a sacred bird to American Indians, back from the brink. In doing so many were taught why the Eagle is so important to the American Indians.

We can use these things as great teaching times for those who really want to know about traditions. One has to listen to there own heart to know who these people are.

Thank you so much for your posting and knowledge.
                                   Wado
Title: Re: Sale of sweetgrass and sage
Post by: raven on February 21, 2006, 04:29:55 pm
Migwitch Ric up in Grandmother's country,
Wado Joseph and Walkingsoft, for your positive inputs.
This subject is about intent, just as the cup I am now drinking coffee out of does not make it sacred, yet if it was used in a sacred ceremony then it would become sacred. The intent of what we use is what makes it sacred.
Title: Re: Sale of sweetgrass and sage
Post by: Moma_porcupine on March 03, 2006, 02:37:07 pm
The articles accessible through the above link posted by  Ric Richardson ,
are interesting .

I want to respect that other people may have different traditions around the
sale of traditional Medicines such as sweetgrass, however , in this article
about the cultivation and sale of sweetgrass plants ,it sounds to me like
there is many traditional people in that area who are strongly opposed to
commercializing these traditions .
For example this article says stuff like;

"For every person who condemns me there are the people out there who want to grow
it and they contact me."

If , for everyone who bought something from a small business in my community ,
someone else condemned it , I would assume there was something about this business
that was really offensive to a lot of people .

And there is defensiveness throughout this article , repeatedly saying that these folks
are not making a living off the grass , they would not like to see it in a florists shop ,
and the people they sell to respect the sacredness of the plant .
Clearly there are some undercurrents going on here that would not be there ,if what was
being sold was roses or fish .

I see the publisher of buffalospirit says he knew nothing about his own culture up
until a few years ago and he names as his Spiritual teachers , Joe Cardinal ,
Devalon Small Legs ,and Ed McGaa .

http://www.ammsa.com/buffalospirit/February-2000/welcome.html

http://www.ammsa.com/buffalospirit/February-2000/motherearth.html

Ed McGaa is someone who shows up a couple times in this NAFPS website listed under frauds .
and also under Needs investigation .

http://newagefraud.org/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?board=frauds;action=display;num=1117195884

http://newagefraud.org/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?board=frauds;action=display;num=1116720656

My own observation is that in many tribes , Native culture no sooner stumbled to its feet ,
after being devastated by residential schools and loss of traditional life style ,
than along came the temptations of monetary gain and prestige to once again knock things
off balance .

Elders Joe Cardinal and Devalon Small Legs, both sound like they are genuine
traditional Elders who deserve a lot of respect and who share many good traditional
teachings ,but , that Ed McGaa with his seemingly dubious reputation , is promoted as one of
this groups named Spiritual teachers , in a publication geared towards guiding disconnected
Native people back to their traditions , makes me think there may be some gaps in what this
group of people knows .( generally speaking this publication gives excellent guidence )

There is also a lot of pressure on Elders to go along with the desires of
not so traditional community members

http://www.ammsa.com/buffalospirit/index.htm

What is below is copied from the above link
---------------------------
In the past, the knowledgeable ones would get up and chastise participants and say,
that is not the way it is supposed to be. Many of these knowledgeable ones are gone
now or the remaining ones are too scared or frustrated to make corrections.

We used to have back-up and support systems for making corrections. There has been a
lament for many years about this fear of correcting because there's no safety.
The whole system that was set up to validate and reinforce that voice of authority has broken
down. That's what is really missing.

Many of the Elders, even the strongest ones, are letting the misconceptions go.
They are scared because of the aggression of the young people. ........

Indian culture is such a commodity today and worth big bucks as
one knowledgeable one stated. Many of our "Elders" are not in it for the right reasons.
They are in it for the money and are not "pure of heart."

Title: Re: Sale of sweetgrass and sage
Post by: Moma_porcupine on March 03, 2006, 02:43:01 pm
Coming back to my own point of view ;

Obviously it is necessary to choose which elders we listen to . I do not think this is
disrespectful . It is just common sense .Even the best Elders have personal strengths
and weaknesses , and areas of expertise .

I was always taught that Native Spiritual traditions are not rightly bought or
sold , and this included sale of traditional Medicines such as sage and sweetgrass
for smudging . I heard this from many Elders , not just one , and I think there
is a good reason for this , as I believe the integrity and potency of these Spiritual
traditions is lost when they are combined with commercial enterprise and economic
development .

As I see it , Spiritual traditions are a collectively owned resource , and these
owners include generations not yet born. I do not believe that anyone , no matter
what position of authority they occupy ,has a right to exploit these traditions in
a way that is likely to degrade their non monetary value for other owners . I also
believe that all persons of Native descent , are rightful owners of these traditions ,
and as such have a right and a responsibility to protect these traditions .
I do not want to make anyone feel badly about selling sweetgrass and sage  
if this is a short term solution to meet basic needs for food and warmth , but
personally , based on the traditions as I understand them ,I cannot support
the planned use of Spiritual traditions as a means to economic development.
There are other ways to create economic development .

I can understand why Native communities might decide they may as well be the
ones to benefit from the exploitation of their own traditional resources and
knowledge . It is happening so often now ,these traditional plants are being sold
by non natives , regardless of Elders concerns . Maybe resistance is useless .
Maybe that is why those Elders in buffalospirit are saying this is Ok .  Maybe
they do know best , and opposing this just divides people who need to stand together .

I can see there might be some valid reasons to let these traditions go , and turning a
blind eye.

But , I just gota say ,seeing traditional sweetgrass braids for sale in a New Age
store beside crystals , plastic buddas and goddess tarot cards makes me feel sick
to my stomach .Other people may see this differently , but this commercialization
of traditional Medicine and especially mixing this with New Age gizmos ,and ceremonial
party games ,does not feel right to me , and I know many Elders are offened by this .

Unfortunately it only takes one or two Native Elders to officially sanction the sale
of some parts of Spiritual traditions , and when this happens , it makes it
impossible to effectively stop this commercialization in non native
communities . It seems there is always some authoritive elder some where ,
who likes expensive gifts , or who wants to stay friendly with their
friends , who says , whatever it is , it is Ok .

It is a very frustrating situation . In my last post , I felt pressured into sounding
more agreeable to this commercialization than I really feel . I do not like
to argue . People can think for themselves and will do what feels right to them .

Please Take care

Title: Re: Sale of sweetgrass and sage
Post by: Joseph on March 04, 2006, 01:08:43 pm
I have just caught up on reading the posts. Moma porcupine wrote

" But , I just gota say ,seeing traditional sweetgrass braids for sale in a New Age  
store beside crystals , plastic buddas and goddess tarot cards makes me feel sick  
to my stomach .Other people may see this differently , but this commercialization  
of traditional Medicine and especially mixing this with New Age gizmos ,and ceremonial  
party games ,does not feel right to me , and I know many Elders are offened by this ."

A good part of me agrees with this but part of me also said to myself that sweetgrass is a natural product, not a patented invented man-made item. Anybody can do whatever they want with it.

I don't know, just a thought, not trying to stir things up.

Joseph
Title: Re: Sale of sweetgrass and sage
Post by: PLH on March 04, 2006, 01:50:35 pm
I'm sure that opinions on this issue could be as diverse are we all are individually. While I do feel that an Elder can do what they pretty much want to, I have to agree with Mama on this one. To me, It would be like selling Roseries next to a book on satanic spells.  I am not catholic, but I am guessin the catholics wouldn't appreciate it much.
Title: Re: Sale of sweetgrass and sage
Post by: Moma_porcupine on March 05, 2006, 12:24:40 pm
Hi Joseph In response to yopur thoughts about a plant just being
a plant ;

What I am about to explain is just my own understanding of traditions ,
through observation. No Elder ever sat down with me and spelt this out , so use your own judgment , as my understanding of this may be incorrect . If this information does not belong in this forum , I do not mind if the moderaters delete this .  

I have picked sage and sweetgrass with Elders , and the way this was done was slow , and it would not be commercially lucrative . As I understand it, when these Medicines are picked you offer tobacco ,
and you explain to the plant why you need it .
At that point you have brought traditional energies in , and these energies need to always be treated with the up most respect . To put down tobacco , and then bring those traditional energies in ,
and them to send those traditional energies off , who knows where, to get mixed up with money and New Age , to my mind , is not respectful of
those energies .  

I believe those traditional energies are real and need to be treated with respect and kept in the culture , where they are nourished not dissipated.  I would guess those traditional energies dissipate real quick in a New Age store , or in New Age made up ceremony. Maybe next time you need them they might be real slow to return . Just my own feeling .
Respect is so important .

It seems to me , to pick sweetgrass or sage without putting down tobacco , and then to sell it for traditional smudge , is traditional form with no
traditional content . It is a hollow replica of the real thing .  Selling a hollow replica of the real thing is also disrespectful . If you were a Catholic would you sell a replica of the bread and wine they
use for communion , and justify this by thinking it had not actually been prayed over , so no real Spiritual energies were involved ?

Another thing I wonder about , is where did people get the idea that is unimportant how sage and sweetgrass are gathered and distributed .
Did you hear some Elders say that ? Is that your tradition ?

Think how these are used . We use them to purify the space and make the connection with traditional energies . For people who use these plants , they are used to open every ceremony . I think there is a reason these are picked and distributed in a prayerful way , and that the energy these are gathered with, is going to influence the ceremonies they are used in , and what energies are brought in. For that reason it would seem to me very important to keep plants used as smudge entirely clean .

And I have a correction to make. I posted this link to this web page , when I began this topic .

http://www.geocities.com/redroadcollective/SacredTobacco.html

I notice I missed something .

At the bottom of the page , after the section discussing the use and abuse of sweetgrass ,
I was very happy to see , it WAS mentioned that
the authors Grandma told her it is very rarely right to buy sacred things , and before people go out and buy these Medicines , they should ask themselves why they are needing to do this .

It is true , people cannot be stopped from gathering and selling these plants , but I think it is important this buying and selling is seen as an occasional aberration of tradition , and does not become the
norm .  

I am sorry to go on and on about this . I do not mean to argue , and people will do what feels right to them . I only know a bit , but what I know ,        I hang on to for dear life .  This feels important to me . Thanks for thinking about this .


Title: Re: Sale of sweetgrass and sage
Post by: yellowthunder_bolt on March 05, 2006, 09:08:21 pm
To one who knows little,

You seem to want to go on and on about the sage and seet grass. What about the cedar that we Cherokee use, tell me how do you "harvest cedar in a traditinal way", Many cedar trees have been here for many, many years, who planted them? What about the corn meal? The corn has to be planted and harvested and grind, what about the traditional ways of doing this??

Apparently all the knowledge you have is about sage and sweetgrass and what you say "your Elders" tell you. You are not Native that is apparent in the wat you write and with bigger issues as Raven stated why are you "stuck" here, is it you have no other knowledges???

I for one find this nick picking when there are much other abuses goeing on and even deaths in regards to all the frauds and plastic shamans. Why don't you talk about that?? Have you no other knowledge??
Title: Re: Sale of sweetgrass and sage
Post by: Ric_Richardson on March 06, 2006, 03:04:58 am
Tansi;

I have always used tobacco, as an offering, while picking any of the plants (all of which are Sacred) which we use.

Unfortunately, in our region, tobacco does not occur naturally, so we have to buy it.  Generally, we have to buy it from a non-native store.  

At Medicine Gatherings, we also have seen tobacco and prints used as offerings to the various Healers.  There was even one non-native who set up a stand to sell these offerings.

From my understanding of M. Porcupine's words, she/he only believes that some non-native should benefit, financially, from the trade in plants that were used, Traditionally, by our people.

In our region, many of the Elders are very concerned that the youth are not learning about our Culture, mainly because they are busy trying to find a way of making a living in our severely economically depressed area.  We will continue to use Tradition, Culture, Heritage and History, in order to encourage Cultural survival, while using our Traditional Knowledge to find ways of developing a viable and sustainable economy.

Personally, I am getting very tired of going to the funerals of the many suicide victims who do not see any hope for a future.

Ric

Title: Re: Sale of sweetgrass and sage
Post by: walking-soft on March 06, 2006, 04:30:39 am
Ric 'siyo,
I to give the offering of tobacco to any thing taken from Mother Earth. I have seen the deer hunters kill  with no respect for the deer or our Mother Earth, I have been in homes where hunters, hunt only for sport and trophy and it hurts my heart greatly. I go and offer tobacco to Mother Earth and Creator for all these things. yes store bought or I will take tobacco from a cigar/cigarette if thats all I have at the moment, for it comes from my heart that I do these things and i know that it is accepted as the Great Spirit comes to take these prayers away.

No I did not hear or feel "you take it back because it is store bought, you didn't obtain it right". The heart was in the right place doing a sacred and traditional way.

Yes I to am much more concerned about the rise in suicide, alcoholism, poverty, sickness, warmth and our elderly. The People is my concern all the while teaching and keeping our traditional ways.

Wado Ric you are a person of wisdom.

                                             J.A.
Title: Re: Sale of sweetgrass and sage
Post by: raven on March 06, 2006, 02:50:14 pm
"it is very rarely right to buy sacred things, and before people go out and buy these medicines, they should ask themselves why are they needing to do this"
Once again this means "intent" what is the intent.
It is a very basic and simple understanding.
If you are being taught by elders the first lesson you are taught is not to analyze.
Some things are just that way, it does not mean they are right or wrong.
Continue to pick the sweetgrass and sage in tradtional way, and pray for those that do not.
That is real tradtion.
If you are being taught by elders that it appears that they follow lakota or another tribe that follows very similiar ways, ask yourself then if you make prayer ties, where did that material come from or the sinew? Those items are also used for a sacred purpose. So what is the difference between going to a fabric store to buy the material and picking the sage?   Are you praying and throwing tobacco on the floor at the store?
My point once again is the intent, that is what they are teaching you. Also the manner of picking the sage and sweetgrass, that is to make you aware  on a spiritual level of what your intent is.  If you are doing this prior to a sweat, you have already began the sacredness of the sweat, while picking the sweetgrass and sage. This is the real teachings, it is not meant to be taken on a literal term.
Title: Re: Sale of sweetgrass and sage
Post by: Ric_Richardson on March 11, 2006, 05:19:33 am
Tansi;

As we use the concept of bringing Traditional Values to a Modern Society, we have noted that Sweetgrass, Sage and many other Medicinal plants of our area were traded, long before non-native's came to our region.

One of the purposes of the International Gathering of Traditional Medicines and Healing, is to revive the Trade Routes and trade in Medicinal plants, among our own people.  Another of the purposes was to bring Healing ways, from all four directions together, for the benefit of all mankind.  The annual Gathering was initially developed, by a Vision of a Native Elder and former Chief, six years ago.  Even though he has since passed on, many continue to Honour his Vision.

At the Gatherings, I make Muskiki Wapwe (Medicine Tea) which is shared with the many participants and visitors to the Gathering.  When I have begun to make this tea, several Elders always gather and stay by the Fire that is used for this.  This gives me an opportunity to learn more about their views about the modern medium of exchange for Trade and about sharing some of the plants from our Culture, commercially.  As each gathering lasts four days, I generally make between 50-130 gallons of tea and have a great deal of time to spend with the Elders.

Incidentally, to gather enough of the 14 ingredients of this tea takes approximately one month of my wife and my time and involves travelling several hundred kilometers, after which we share the tea, freely, at the Gathering.

I hope that this helps in promoting an understanding of this issue.

Respectfully;
Ric

Title: Re: Sale of sweetgrass and sage
Post by: Moma_porcupine on October 19, 2006, 07:19:34 pm
Sacred ; set apart for religious uses

Sanctify ; to make holy , ; set apart for some sacred use

Consecrate ; to set apart for holy purpose , regarded as Sacred

Is it possible to sell what is Consecrated and have it remain Sacred?  I don't think so , and that is probably why in the discussion above , there is a number of mentions of Elders and traditional people who are uncomfortable to see anything being bought and sold that has been Consecrated for ceremonial use such as Sage and Sweetgrass are when they are picked  . (What the tobacco offering when it is picked is all about . )

I am not sure how it is that someone makes the choice to listen to the traditional people who feel the sale of sweetgrass is OK , but ignore the many traditional people who strongly feel the sale of these traditional Medicines is a desecration of their Spiritual traditions .  I don't see how anyone can do that ,and also claim their behavior is "respectful".

I especially would not choose to listen to the supposedly traditional people who are saying it is OK to sell it when they are making money doing this , or are closely associated with people who are . It is a conflict of interest .

There is also a conflict in the information given by Mr and Mrs Cardinal about the ethics of selling this .

http://www.ammsa.com/buffalospirit/February-2000/sweetgrass.html

Mrs Cardinal said , as a justification for cultivating and selling this ;
Quote
"We're losing sweetgrass, and I've noticed that over the last 30 years. I remember being able to go to Kehewin [Alta.] and walk through it. Now in the same spots I can't do that. Our climate has changed dramatically and all those spots that were wonderful spots for sweetgrass are drying up,"  

And Mr Cardinal said , as a justification for selling it ;
Quote
"For me, there is so much of it growing around. If you want to buy it, there's no harm."
So which is it ? Is it going extinct or is there lots of it around ?  Kinda odd to hear such a contradiction in the same family .  What traditional people tell me , is a lot of the sweetgrass is gone because commercial pickers have over picked it and killed it . Maybe climate change is a factor but so is commercial picking .
Personally I perfer to listen to the people who have no commercial interests in the matter.

Yes , I have seen sweetgrass sage and other Medicines traded , but as far as I have ever seen ,or heard this always happens more as a mutual exchange of gifts , and I have never heard of a tradition where there was a set price or dickering over how much will be given in exchange for what , or how much an hour people will be paid to pick this .

Is it really being claimed here , that traditionally there was trading , that consisted of dickering and a expectation of how much people would recieve for these exchanges ?    

I agree that keeping people warm and dry and fed is the first priority , and I am sure the Spirits would understand if there is a time when someone needs to sell some sweetgrass to survive .  But ususally there is a CHOICE , and I really can't support commercial profiteering at the expense of a collectively owned resource , that many owners feel is desecrated through commercialization  .

I also understand that this commercializatyion is happening whether all the owners agree to it or not , and it can't be stopped , so there is a valid arguement to be made that First Nations may as well get in on the money .  Maybe resistance is useless ....  But it is still a horrible loss for many , and in my opinion , this commercial activity has little to do with " respect " for traditional culture .

 Sorry I can't agree with people on this one . There is more than one way to be impoverished .

There is many other points we do agree on ...

With Respect
Title: Re: Sale of sweetgrass and sage
Post by: Ric_Richardson on October 20, 2006, 02:13:02 am
Tansi;

I may not be as aware of my Culture as M Porcupine, but I do know that Saddle Lake First Nation is quite a distance from Kehewin First Nation and the geography is different. ?

As to two Cardinals disagreeing, this is no suprise, since there are literally thousands of Aboriginal people with this last name. ? As the Elder Joe Cardinal has long since passed on, I believe that his words should not be used with disrespect.

In being taught about our Culture, I was taught that all of Life is Sacred and all things of this earth are alive, including rocks, plants, insects, and animals, including people.  

Global warming, for whatever reason, is affecting our northern territories much more evidently than it is in the south.


Ekosi
Ric
Title: Re: Sale of sweetgrass and sage
Post by: Moma_porcupine on October 20, 2006, 03:20:22 am
Sorry , I mistakenly assumed Marilyn Cardinal was the partner of Joe Cardinal as they were both mentioned in the same article on sweet grass . As you earlier mentioned Joe Cardinal was your teacher , I would guess this would be obvious to you , but it wasn't to me.

Personally I don't think it is being disrespectful to question contradictions , and while I am obviously uncomfortable with the sale of sweetgrass or other Medicines used in Ceremony , I do not mean to be disrespecful .  
Title: Re: Sale of sweetgrass and sage
Post by: Moma_porcupine on October 21, 2006, 12:12:59 am
I am posting a few more links that mention some tribes concerns around the out of context use and commercialization of sage and sweetgrass , that was gathered for ceremonial purposes .

Sorry if this is more than some people want to know .

This first link is more about the connection between the trade in traditionally used ceremonial plants and animal or bird parts and the exploitation of traditional religion . It is a tribal ordinance by the Ogala Sioux Tribal Council , which attempted to ban non native possesion of these items used for traditional religious purposes . This ordinance was voted in 14 for and 0 against .

The first 1/2 of the web page is talking about how unfair some people they feel this new tribal law is , and the last 1/2 is the actual tribal ordinance  , part of which I have posted below ;   

http://www.ouachitalk.com/pineridge.htm
 (http://www.ouachitalk.com/pineridge.htm)
Quote
WHEREAS, it is the intent of the Oglala Sioux Tribe to eliminate the sale and exploitation of the Teton Sioux Religion and spirituality for profit, and

WHEREAS, the elimination of the sale of religion and spirituality may be best addressed by the adoption of an Ordinance identify such sale and exploitation a criminal offense, now THEREFORE BE IT ORDAINED, that the Oglala Sioux Tribal Council does hereby adopt the following Ordinance outlawing the sale or possession of Wild Animal, Bird and/or Plant parts, including, but not limited to feathers, hides, or skins, sweet grass or sage for use by non-Indians for traditional religious purposes.

No person other than enrolled members of the Oglala Sioux Tribe, non-enrolled members of the Oglala Sioux tribe whose application for enrollment is on file with the Oglala Sioux Tribe Enrollment Office, or enrolled members of any other federally recognized tribe shall possess or have in their possession, sells, gives away, disposes of, exchanges or barter any animal, bird and/or plant parts including but not limited to, bones of any bird, talons of any bird, animal hides, animal bones, animal teeth, sweet grass, sage, cherry branches and pipe boughs.


I also found this , which mentions many people and Elders on the Six Nations reserve felt people should not commercialize ceremonial plants .

http://www.zetatalk.com/food/tfood17k.htm (http://www.zetatalk.com/food/tfood17k.htm)

Quote
Originally, Parker's idea to sell native plants to Indians was received with trepidation since many on the reserve felt that people should not profit from ceremonial plants. ''What got us around that is we told elders that we want to restore the numbers, preserve and maintain them, and then they understood. It wasn't that we were trying to be greedy and sell our natural resources,'' Parker explained.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edited May 8 to add ;

----------
I found more on line links to articles mentioning objections to the sale of sage and sweetgrass , and rather than make people who aren't interested read through more on the subject , I am just adding these on to this old post .     

One of the links I mentioned in reply #12 no longer works . I found a cached version, but as I don't know how long that will last , I have quoted from the article .

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:eE5zQEpDmbwJ:www.indiancountry.com/content.cfm%3Fid%3D602+sweetgrass+
elders+upset&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=7&gl=ca (http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:eE5zQEpDmbwJ:www.indiancountry.com/content.cfm%3Fid%3D602+sweetgrass+
elders+upset&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=7&gl=ca)

Tourism seen as new economic boon to Indian country   
Posted: October 11, 2000
by: David Melmer / Indian Country Today

Quote
"The Pipe is sacred to us and we don't share with (the tourists). Our elders get upset when you sell sweet grass and other things. This is our way of life, we have no word for religion," he said.

--------------------------
This link below takes forever to load. It is 152 pages and it is a thesis discussing the impact of a Canadian government funded tourism project in a Mi'kmaq community in New Brunswick .

http://www.collectionscanada.ca/obj/s4/f2/dsk1/tape10/PQDD_0016/MQ47680.pdf (http://www.collectionscanada.ca/obj/s4/f2/dsk1/tape10/PQDD_0016/MQ47680.pdf)

"Seeds Blossoms and in Bloom":Explorations of identity and plurality of meanings in growth of cultural tourism and the Aboriginal Heritage Gardens " by Dorthy Hache'

Page 78

Quote
A notable example of the points of diversity of sentiments in development is the simultaneous
collision and convergence in the relationship between political leaders on reserves and traditionalists . They are often at odds . Traditionalists are prone to label band councils as "creatures of the imperialists and elected councillers as patsies for a system that undermines the old ways when everyone had a say on every issue " ( Cayo 1997 , July 5 0

This differencce comes out occasionally in my interviews but the denigeration is not based on chief and councils political identity and role in the community ; rather , the concerns are whether  the planners and political leaders will respect "tradition" in their development initiatives .
 
Page 97

Quote
A final area of contention , and perhaps one of the most divisive I have observed thus far is the whole question of whether spiritual  items can be bought and sold . This debate is inherent in the commodification of culture but it implicates the heritage Garden directly since it's main feature and market strength is the wide array of pharmacopeia traditionally used by the Mi'kmaw . it is no coincidence that the product being offered by the Heritage Garden is concurrent with an increased interest in herbology and homeopathic medicines by both scientists and lay people . Not only is there an enviromental challenge in the growth and use of these herbs and natural medicinal plants but the demand for these products is both socio-economic and spiritual . It was noted earlier that divisions exists between Mi'kmaq traditionalists and politicians and it is on this very issue of whether one can sell traditional medicine or not that their main differences occur . Selling sweetgrass is considereded taboo by many traditionalists but it is happening and inevitible divisions result . in fact , there are even divisions within the traditionalist camp on this very issue . For those Aboriginals involved in the commodification of culture particualrly the selling and marketing of traditional /spiritual items . there is an agreement on the common forms (e.g. sweetgrass for smudging purposes ) but they differ in meaning . As Stromburg argues in his study of religion : members render them [symbols] intelligible to themselves through their personal faith ...people may share commitments without sharing beliefs ; it follows that they may constitute a community without a community being based on consensus " (Stromburg 1986:13 cited in Cohen 1994 :18 )
-------------

Powwow - Google Books Result
by Luke E. Lassiter, Gary H. Dunham, Clyde Ellis - 2005 - 309 pages

http://books.google.com/books?id=kqn30xR-ESQC&pg=PA266&lpg=PA266&dq=exploitation+sweetgrass&
source=web&ots=bGjSttDee7&sig=-eIenLqM_Fvwo6nI7NOe9QNhdjA#PPA265,M1 (http://books.google.com/books?id=kqn30xR-ESQC&pg=PA266&lpg=PA266&dq=exploitation+sweetgrass&
source=web&ots=bGjSttDee7&sig=-eIenLqM_Fvwo6nI7NOe9QNhdjA#PPA265,M1)
Powwow

By Luke E. Lassiter,
Gary H. Dunham, Clyde
Ellis
Published 2005
U of Nebraska Press
This anthology examines the origins, meanings, and enduring power of the powwow.

265 ( in a section by Lisa Aldred )
Quote
The southren california Chapter of the American Indian Movement (AIM) has issued directives
regarding these new age run powwows urging Indians as well as non Indians to stay away from them

The sponsers of these powwows are only interested in profit and are very disrespectful of Indian culture . You can spot these non Indian powwows because they have a carnival atmosphere . You will see commercail food trucks commercail products sold out of trailers mountain men shows , palm reading , guns , arcades , an entrance fee , a parking fee and the availability of alcohol . Sacred herbs , such as sage tobacco and sweetgrass and Pipes are displayed for open sale . The atmosphere is not Indian . Pleas stay away ... Do not buy sacred items . Do not buy sage tobacco or sweetgrass . Do not buy Pipes or any ceremonial items .

AIM has recognized the trend toward powwow markets that sell sacred items , such as the sacred Pipe vendor Richie Plass found offensive . They have clearly delinated why such sales are highly offensive as well as condemed the sale of New Age lititure by powwow vendors .

For twenty five years there has been an increasing and disturbing trend of exploitation in the powwow market places that includes the buying and selling of sacred items and artifacts . With this has come the introduction of New Age ideas and merchandise passed off as "Indian wisdom" or "Indian thought". Exploitation is a serious matter with serious consequenses for the Indian community and demands our immediate attion to preserve the cherished culture of our people .

Included in many markets are ceremonial Pipes ( particularly those made of Pipe stone ) sage ,cedar ,sweetgrass, rattles, tobacco ties, some drums ...The Sacred must not be sold
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http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:Q_kKFpex00kJ:www.destinations.gc.ca/docs/stgoddard_paper_
e.cfm+Manitoba+sweetgrass+sell&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=6&gl=ca (http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:Q_kKFpex00kJ:www.destinations.gc.ca/docs/stgoddard_paper_
e.cfm+Manitoba+sweetgrass+sell&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=6&gl=ca)

... (begins )
Quote
the Aboriginal Arts Group (located in the Aboriginal Centre of Winnipeg) was offering an eight month Artist Management Training Program through Red River College.

In 1998, through a business loan and government programs, I was able to take six artists to Germany, and ten powwow dancers and artists to Brazil. For years I heard the Germans loved Aboriginal art and that we would sell everything we brought. (con )

They seemed more interested in making money from, our culture than in the authenticity of the work. Also at this show, there were non-Aboriginal people selling traditional medicines (sweetgrass, sage, cedar and tobacco). We were taught not to sell medicine but to trade or give it to people who
need. To make matters worse, some vendors were consuming alcohol while selling these things, which is considered disrespectful.
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http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:WBNTE2l3NkEJ:redwebz.org/+stop+sale+sacred+items+%22native+American%22
&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=8&gl=ca
 (http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:WBNTE2l3NkEJ:redwebz.org/+stop+sale+sacred+items+%22native+American%22
&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=8&gl=ca)

Through the link
"Stop the Sale of Traditional & Sacred Items"
Quote
What is Sacred?

# Pipes
# Pipestone
# Drums
# Quillwork
# Some baskets
# Sand Paintings
# Kachinas
# Buffalo parts
# Federally regulated or endangered species
# Sage
# Cedar
# Sweetgrass
# Tobacco
# Smoking mixes
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There is a few more articles mentioning the sale of sweetgrass , and an attempt at a discussion of the general principlals involved when some people in a community decide to commercialize a part of the culture , in a way other people find offensive, in the thread below " Who Owns Native Culture' .

http://newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=412.0;all (http://newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=412.0;all)